Just back from a meet-up of Southern California Mini E drivers - 10 cars were there, including Edmunds' No. 116.
Took the opportunity while gathered around the EV charger in the parking lot of the old Helms Bakery complex in Culver City (about 10 miles west of downtown L.A.) to ask the group some questions that might shed a little more light on the electric car experience for those of you who don't drive 'em.
Q: Who drove the farthest to get here?
A: Stan Sadorf, an optometrist from Victorville, Calif., who logged 98 miles on car No. 59 his way in this morning. He said he stopped for a 1.5-hour battery top- up at a friendly cafe (with a free plug) and would be doing the same on his way home.
Q: Longest daily commute using the Mini E?
A: 85 miles, the round-trip that Long Beach-based driver Todd Crook (car 140) puts in to go to and frim his job at NBC Universal in Burbank.
Q: Least range anyone's chalked up?.
A: Los Angeles Driver Adam Weisman said he only got "60 or so" miles per charge when he first started driving his Mini E. "I didn't know what I was doing." He now does considerably better.
Q: How many of the group considered themselves early adopters who wanted the experimental Mini E even though it has only two seats and a hefty $850 monthly lease payment?
A: Everyone here.
Q: How many owned an electric car before getting the Mini E?
A: No one.
Q: Owned a hybrid previous to the electric Mini?
A: Two of the drivers.
Q: Who's ever run out of juice and had to be taken to the nearest charger on a flat-bed tow truck?
A: No one.
Q: The stated range for the Mini E is 100 miles. What's the farthest anyone in the group has driven on a single charge?
A: An astounding 141 miles. Driver Matt Walton, who lives in Moorpark, Ca. (45 miles north of the Culver city gathering spot), said he took a very leisurely trip up into the mountains, keeping to 25 miles an hour most of the way and making heavy use of the Mini's regenerative braking on the way back down (plus some judicious coasting, we imagine).
Q: The most anyone's gone after the battery range indicator shows "Zero?"
A: Seems quite a few of the drivers have tempted fate - no one enough, though, to actually run out of power. But the most miles logged after the "0" showed up was 20, a figure offered by several of the drivers.
Q: Some of the Mini E's have the word "Electric" spelled out in chrome letters on the front fenders, one has huge "MINI E" decals on the door. Are those factory embellishments?
A: There's already an aftermarket cropping up, offering custom "electric," "hybrid" and other signs that people can put on their cars to show they are powered by something other than a gas engine. The big Mini E decal, though, did come from a dealer.
Q: Silly questions people ask when they see a Mini E for the first time?
A: 1) Is it electric? 2) What's wrong with the brakes? They're all rusty! (Because the regenerative braking system pretty much stops the car without use of the brakes, some of the cars have rusty rotors because they're rarely scoured by brake pads.
Q: What kinds of problems have people experienced?
A: Not many, apparently. A few of the drivers have head of warning lights coming on to indicate that there's a problem with one or more of the battery cells - which results in the faulty cells being replaced; a few of the power electronics control boxes also have been replaced, a practice, driver Jeff Lander suggests, that is likely because it's easier for a dealer to swap out the whole box and send it to the manufacturer (AC Propulsion) than it is to try to track down which component is acting up.
Landers, who arrived at the meeting driving a standard gasoline Mini, said his high voltage warning light came on Friday afternoon and when he called his dealership a flat-bed was immediately dispatched, the car was picked up and he was plunked into the bright yellow loaner "all in about two hours." He's still waiting to see hear the diagnosis.
Q: How many of the drivers would sign up to renew their leases, or, better, to buy the Mini Es - even with just two seats and the battery box filling up most of the space behind them?
A: Everyone raised a hand.
John O'Dell, Senior Editor, Edmunds Green Car Advisor
firstwagon says:
03:07 PM, 11/ 8/09
Interesting.
I am quite curious to see what the next generation MiniE will be.
hybris says:
04:13 PM, 11/ 8/09
"I am quite curious to see what the next generation MiniE will be."
Same here.
So far though I'm not impressed.
vt8919 says:
06:32 PM, 11/ 8/09
So everyone gets a charge out of their Mini E. :-)
cruiserhead1 says:
07:25 AM, 11/ 9/09
It is very disturbing to hear such a high % of this group had to replace some major component. I am just imagining if electric cars were sold en mass, how many thousands of batteries would be disposed of and the huge environmental impact.
The fact nothing can be repaired, and it is basically a disposable product-- it does not bode well and an environmental solution. Petrol may be "dirty" but it can last for 20+ years with a little maintenance.
The $850/mo lease is shocking!! ;-) I can't believe people pay that!
On the flipside, I commend people for being pioneers and seeing if something is viable.
Also, glad ACP is doing well. I remember reading about them a few years past.
Electric is interesting but there are some serious problems on a mass scale that cannot be ignored.
bankerdanny says:
08:39 AM, 11/ 9/09
I'm not disturbed by the component issues. These are still late stage experimental vehicles.
txmatt1 says:
08:46 AM, 11/ 9/09
The replace vs repair mentality isn't much different than traditional cars. A dealer will often just replace something like a transmission as opposed to try and repair it. It's faster for them to swap a new unit. Mechanics are even less qualified to diagnose and repair something like a power controller than they are an automatic transmission. And I'd bet failed controllers are going back to AC Propulsion for failure analysis. Those things can be redesigned for increased reliability and/or made modular for future repair as opposed to replacement.
Just because a cell fails doesn't imply thousands of batteries being disposed of. Failed cells can be recycled and the good used cells within the batteries can be matched/reused in refurbed batteries or other applications.
coopere230 says:
09:21 AM, 11/ 9/09
cruiserhead1: You shouldn't be disturbed, these are prototypes being tested so YOU can eventually drive a trouble free Electric car, should you decide to be environmentally responsible.
6000 trouble and pollution free miles in mine, adding 90 to 100 miles each day, every day.
To be exact $924.38 monthly, the cost of being involved in something that WILL make a difference and prove the vehicle for mass market consumption at an affordable price.
(This lease formulated on 12 months at a sticker of $50,000 (( though the actual COST of this prototype car is astronomically higher))
Cost to operate = .03 cents per mile!
Thrill factor = Priceless!
Naysayers = haven't driven one yet.
I am COOPER E in the photo.
felonious says:
09:43 AM, 11/ 9/09
What amazes me is how many people are so eager to pay $850/mo for an impractical car that's not even all that much fun! I have a similar payment on my car, but at least it's practical and fun (S4 Avant).
soareyes says:
11:52 AM, 11/ 9/09
@felonious - Why do you think the Mini E is not fun to drive? It's a Mini after all, which most people find to be a blast to drive! Plus with this car you have all that instant torque to play with. As far as practicality, it just depends on what you need. If you drive more than 100 miles a day, need to haul a trunk full of stuff, or carry more than one passenger, then no, it won't work for you. For me, I have a short commute with no passengers and need only carry a few bags of groceries occasionally. So the Mini E is perfect for me 99% of the time, and I have my wife's minivan for anything else. I suspect there are a lot of people in my situation. And remember, the Mini E is prototype and a production car will seat more, haul more, and possibly go further than this car.
tomm250 says:
06:16 AM, 11/10/09
@felonious: Dude you drive a station wagon, lighten up on the "fun" claims. Sure the Anant is practical and you can take the kids to soccer practice, but please don't say a 200+HP Mini Cooper isn't much fun to drive. We're not paying $850/month just for the transportation end of it as you are with the wagon. Most of us in the program are here because we believe in EV's and want to help advance the production and public awareness of them. I've driven mine 13,000 miles in less than 5 months and average about 90 miles a day. I've saved $1,800 in gasoline during that time and spent only about $500 on electric to charge the car. I didn't have to pay for 3 or 4 oil changes, Mini pays the insurance(everything other than liability) and in New Jersey we didn't have to pay sales tax because it's a zero emission vehicle and that saved about $75/month, so when you add everything up, it's really not bad considering we get to do be part of what we believe in. I've given dozens of test drives and everyone that has driven the car loved it and asks "when can I get one of these?" The car is flat out a blast to drive and I have owned a 89' Corvette, a 94' RX7 twin turbo, a 99' Boxster S and even a 81' Delorean (I know, stop laughing) and this car is as fun to drive as any of them.
fhwulala says:
05:30 PM, 11/10/09
Why is that all the mini E drivers that left comments own at least one oil guzzler at home?
Seeking some kind of redemption?
tomm250 says:
05:43 PM, 11/10/09
@fhwulala: You're right, everyone I know in the program owns at least one oil guzzler at home, I have two of them. We only have these cars for one year, (at least that's the official company line as of today, but that will change soon) so most of us kept the cars we had before, we just don't drive them as much or at all. I was driving a Toyota Tacoma to the tune of about 36,000 miles a year. Since I got the Mini E in June I've put 1,000 miles on the Tacoma and 13,000 miles on the Mini E. My wife still drives the her car the same as before. Until there are EV's for sale (other than a $110,000 Tesla) we really don't have any viably electric drive options but that is going to change in the next two to three years and we will be able to purchase 100% electric vehicles and plug in extended range hybrids. Redemption? No. Liberation is what we seek.