Floor mats? We're talking about floor mats?
Well, why not? After all, Toyota just issued a humungous recall of 3.8 million vehicles because of a link between floor mats and sticking throttles. And I received a lot of questions in the immediate aftermath of that announcement, such as: Is this a Toyota-specific issue?
Well, this recall is specific to Toyota and Lexus, but my mind flashes back to numerous times when my own floor mats got fowled with the pedals in several of my personal vehicles over the years, Toyota and non-Toyota alike. And I know of the fear and panic that can come with a stuck throttle experience, because it happened to me at top speed on a racetrack, though that incident wasn't quite floor mat related.
So I grabbed a dozen random keys to some of our long-term test cars to see what I could see. No Toyota keys were handy, though. I'll catch the Prius later.
Before we make the jump, take a gander at the photo above. This is a typical Toyota/Lexus floor mat installation: An top-hinged "pendulum-style" gas pedal is paired with a generous cut-out in the mat to produce a large clearance. The floor mat is kept from creeping forward by two plastic hooks just in front of the seat. As long as it remains hooked and the floor mat is the right size and shape, things should be fine.
Moving on, in no particular order...
#1: Nissan 370Z, mat attached as designed
Our Nissan 370Z mat is held in place with two hooks, and both were properly attached. The throttle pedal is tight against the floormat, but it is bottom hinged so the mat can't crawl underneath if it drifts free of it's pegs.
#2: BMW 750i, mat attached as designed
The BMW 750i uses large velcro pads instead of hooks, but this means the mat's position can vary depending on where it is when the velcro grips. But again, the bottom-hinged throttle pedal keeps it from sliding under.
#3 BMW M3, attachment broken, mat still in position
The BMW M3 uses the same bottom hinged pedal and velcro-attached mats. But here one of the velcro floor pads has pulled out of the carpet, and the simple screw mount that screws straight into the carpet looks pretty unreliable.
#4 Dodge Challenger R/T, mat attached as designed
The Challenger uses a top-hinged pedal, and it strikes the seam of the floor mat at wide-open throttle. There is no cut-out for clearance. The mat has only one attachment hook, but the sides of the tunnel and the rocker are straight and the mat fits tight between them.
#5 Ford Flex, mat attached as designed
Our Flex uses an odd-shaped mat with huge cutouts and a top hinged throttle pedal. The single hook in the center came loose more than once during my Oregon trips, but it never strayed too far. Still, this attachment seems less effective, especially since the mat has gone crispy and slightly taco-shaped as mats tends to do with many miles of use.
#6 Infiniti FX50, mat out of position, attachment broken and missing
The Infiniti's mat was laying on the throttle pedal as you see it here, though it isn't near heavy enough to hold down the bottom-hinged throttle pedal and its stout return spring. But the single attachment hook has pulled out of the carpet entirely and gone missing. Some other cars (notably Toyotas) employ a metal gromment in the carpet to make the connection more secure. Not sure what happened here.
#7 Pontiac G8 GT. mat attached as designed, but attachment point cracked and failing
Our Pontiac G8 has broad floor mats that spread far up behind the top-hinged pedal, so no interference seems possible. But one of the attachment nubs (there are two) is cracked and not long for this world, at which time the mat might drift about a bit.
#8 Hyundai Genesis Sedan, mat out of position, clip detached but unbroken
The Genesis uses a bottom-hinged pedal, so even though the mat was scooted about 2 inches forward, it had no effect on pedal operation. It looks as if the attachment wasn't re-connected after the mats were removed after vacuuming at the car wash. It's hard to know why it's detached -- it just is.
#9 Honda Fit, mat attached as designed
Honda uses two of these neat twist-lock fasteners that seem quite secure. The top hinged ped and cutout look very similar to the Toyota layout.
#10 Honda Insight, mat out of position, attachment loose but unbroken
The Insight looks exactly like the Fit in the floormat department, but here those clever twist locks were not reattached at the carwash (it had been washed that morning) and the mat had drifted forward. I pushed the pedal down to wide-open and it slipped under the mat. This mat is not heavy and the pedal return spring is strong, so it came back easily. This is very close to the Toyota issue, but in those cases heavy rubber "all-weather" accessory mats that don't bend have been implicated.
#11 Suzuki SX4, mat attached as designed
The SX4 has a small mat attached with one plastic hook. The tiny top hinged throttle pedal clears a small cut-out in themat.
#12 Volvo XC60, mat attached as designed
Two plastic snaps hold the XC60's mats in place, and they stop short of the top-hinged throttle pedal, which stays clear of the floor at full throttle.
Final tally:
3 of 12 had broken attachment mecahnisms. (1 velcro, 1 snap, 1 hook)
3 of 12 out of position, (2 due to incorrect re-installation, 1 due to breakage)
Two things are clear: floor mat attachments of all types have their problems, and you've got to make sure they're preoperly re-secured after a car wash or vacuum.
In fact, one of the Toyota NHTSA reports started like this: "Shortly after leaving the wash, the gas pedal stuck to the floor as I pulled away from a stop sign..."
Sure, nothing in our garage came close to causing a stuck throttle. But I don't know if I could say the same if stiffer and heavier rubber winter mats were in the mix. And there are plenty of other cars I didn't look at. As it stands, the throttle return springs here seem more than a match for these simple carpet mats, but the attachments are still unreliable.
So it seems that all of this could apply to any car, not simply Toyotas.
What should you do if the pedal won't come back? I saved my skin by lifting the pedal up with the toe of my left racing shoe. But anyone who races has the stuck-throttle scenario drilled into their psyche.
Throwing it into neutral is another idea that works. But believe it or not, one of the NHTSA reports quoted a stuck throttle victim as saying, "I put the shifter into neutral, but the engine sounded like it was going to blow up, so I put it back in drive. The car still kept going ..."
Keying off works, of course, as long as you don't turn it all the way off and lock the steering.
The Lexus in the San Diego incident that made all the headlines allegedly had push-button start, but there is no standard method to shut down a push-button car when moving and there's no time to read the owner's manual in the midst of a stuck throttle situation.
Toyota says you must press and hold theirs for three seconds to kill the engine. Karl tried the same in a BMW he recently drove, and he found that the press and hold did nothing, but three stacatto stabs did the trick. This sounded great until he found that 4 rapid-fire stabs shut it off and then soundlessly restarted it. Who's counting in that situation?
Dan Edmunds, Director of Vehicle Testing
questionlp says:
09:54 PM, 10/ 2/09
Umm... F comes before G, so the Honda Fit should be listed before the G8 GT and the Genesis Coupe.
ktinsd says:
09:58 PM, 10/ 2/09
Is there any reason an ES350 couldn't have been flipped into neutral?
church123 says:
10:28 PM, 10/ 2/09
You know many DBW cars (infiniti in particular) won't let you apply any significant throttle while applying the brake pedal. I wonder what the DBW protocols tend to be in this situation?
actualsize says:
10:28 PM, 10/ 2/09
No reason. No one knows why that wasn't tried.
The alphabet problem (my fault) came from the way I named the photos: 370z, BMW750i, g8, genesis, hondafit, hondainsight, etc.
aznraptor says:
10:28 PM, 10/ 2/09
The BMW method of turning off the engine just sounds like uber fail
who knew it was so hard to design a floor mat?
my type-S has these two metal clips the secure the mat in place. It's a little difficult to put the mats on but at least they look really sturdy
benson2175 says:
10:53 PM, 10/ 2/09
These people are the first victims of the robot apocalypse. With all the computers on it an ES is nothing more than 3000 pound crude robot. They couldn't shut off the push start, they probably couldn't shift into neutral or park if it wasn't a direct linkage shifter as the car wouldn't want to damage itself. Just wait till these things drive themselves completely. Give me a proper key so I can turn off one of these things when they try to kill me.
cx7lover says:
12:48 AM, 10/ 3/09
XC60 has the best design
billt9 says:
05:04 AM, 10/ 3/09
i agree all machines should have emergency kill switches.
It's a big mess up that these Start/Stop buttons don't have a kill switch.
How can any machine not have a kill switch, especially a 4000 lb one?
cx7lover says:
05:21 AM, 10/ 3/09
Isn't Neutral the kill switch? I know my cars don't propel in any direction when it's engaged.
ghiafan says:
05:46 AM, 10/ 3/09
Your conclusioon is that makers of floor mats have some redesigning to do.
That said, why is it that Toyota drivers appear to be having the most difficulty with the gas peddle sucking floor mats?
Is it because Toyota drivers are not as intelligent as drivers of other car brands.
Or could it be luck of the draw or that the "force" is plotting against Toyota.
Or could it be that Toyota has a much more serious problem with many of its vehicles which have been exhibiting sudden acceloration over the past many years.
Toyota selling that this is a floor mat problem for so many years does not jive. Especially when none of the other car manufacturers are running into these terrifying gas peddle sucking floor mats
greenpony says:
06:31 AM, 10/ 3/09
Put it back into drive. That one is incredible.
subaru123 says:
07:20 AM, 10/ 3/09
My Subaru uses a giant metal hook to hold mine in place. My Prius on the otherhand...
majin_ssj_eric says:
07:34 AM, 10/ 3/09
Just reading those NHTSA reports confirms my theory that 90% of the people on the roads are too stupid and unqualified to drive an automobile....
cah11705 says:
07:39 AM, 10/ 3/09
Of course an engine at full throttle in neutral will sound like it is going to blow up. But it that is the only option, stop immediately after putting it in neutral and shut it down.
thehardcard says:
08:18 AM, 10/ 3/09
Have many people tried shifting at WOT? Sometimes the force of a powerful engine applying full pressure on the gears won't allow the transmission to move out of gear.
I don't know have access to my VQ Altima, but maybe as part of this discussion an Edmunds driver can pick a safe area to see how easy/hard it is to pull some cars into neutral with the gas pedal floored.
prndlol says:
08:33 AM, 10/ 3/09
Remember when it was largely just a Japanese oddity to see floormat retainers in footwells?
msdaisy says:
09:56 AM, 10/ 3/09
Which would you say is the best design Dan?
louiswei says:
10:50 AM, 10/ 3/09
The Toyota/Lexus floor mat design is pretty bad, I have personally experienced the pedal stuck under the mat at WOT on the highway:
http://lexusnet.com/blog/toyota-issues-safety-warning-over-floor-mat-issue-plus-my-personal-experience/
However, it's worth to mention that the problem only exists for the all weather floor mat, the carpet one doesn't seem to be able to cause this problem.
broq3_5 says:
11:40 AM, 10/ 3/09
my ford fivehundred (75Kmiles) has the same design as the Flex (go figure, lol) and that hook thing does not work well once the mat gets worn. Mine is NEVER in the right place, but is is also so flimsy now, which is why the hook doesn't hold it, that it doesn't pose a danger to me at all.
carlisimo says:
01:16 PM, 10/ 3/09
I think the Lexus that crashed in San Diego was a dealership loaner that had all-weather mats OVER the carpet mats. You're not supposed to do that but dealerships often do to protect (but not lose) the carpet mats.
wobbly_ears says:
01:47 PM, 10/ 3/09
It appears that floor hinged accelerator pedals are a better idea. My Azera doesn't have floor hinged pedals but I have the adjustable power pedals & I have raised them a little higher so that there's more clearance.
I always check the footwells when I get in my car to confirm that mats are in place. Have convinced the wife to do the same as well.
There's another thing people are lax about. People throw junk in the back seats & have things rolling around on the floor.Sometimes things might roll from the back seat area into the driver footwell & get caught under pedals. I seem to recall a case where a tennis ball or Pringles can had rolled under driver seat & had got stuck under the brake pedal.
Keep your cars clean & free of unsecured things. Look & confirm everything is where it should be (including the floormats). Don't try to use cellphones/text while driving & enjoy your drive & be safe. Common sense.
canddmeyer says:
03:24 PM, 10/ 3/09
Looks like a bottom-hinged accelerator pedal is the way to go. All the problems appear to be with the top-hinged versions. With a bottom-hinged pedal a floormat cannot creep under the accelerator.
My 1991 K1500 xcab had this problem twice until I figured out I had reversed the front and rear floor mats which were very much alike.
formerhpb says:
05:17 PM, 10/ 3/09
I remember when I first got my license, I took my mother's 84 Cutlass Ciera for an oil change at the local 10 min oil change place. Back then they would pull the car in, change the oil, vacuum, etc. I get in to head home and they put the mat right over the gas pedal. Of course I dind't notice until I was heading toward the busy road and took my foot off the gas and it kept accelerating. So I had to almost stand on the brake pedal. Scared the crap out of me.
hybris says:
06:42 PM, 10/ 3/09
Now I'm glad I have rubberized vinyl floors.
tinyelvis says:
07:19 PM, 10/ 3/09
One reason I traded my '04 Toyota Sequioa was the mats kept shifting and I hated it. Small plastic seat-mechanism cover pieces kept dislodging and ending up in the footwells.
In 26 months and 47,000 miles my Enclave mats have not budged.
By the way, is the Sequioa the only vehicle to have all five vowels in its name?
dg0472 says:
02:17 PM, 10/ 4/09
I'd like to know how much return pressure the Toyota pedals provide versus other cars. That might be part of it.
As far as the Genesis goes, my Sonata has the same design and it's never came loose on its (not it's) own.
As far as why he couldn't shift into Neutral, I have a theory: he may have thought he had put it in neutral. Go to the Lexus website and look at the design of the shifter. The "N" is immediately beside the upshift gate of the manumatic transmission, not the actual Neutral position. At those speeds, it's very possible he glanced down, moved the shifter to right beside the "N," and possibly even forced an upshift, causing the car to gain even more speed. It's a terrible design. Toyota needs to either put the gate on the other side or the N on the other side. Or they could make the jump from Neutral to Drive longer so that Neutral and part of the manumatic gate do't line up. Since Hyundai has move the gate over on some of its newer cars, they've created a situation just as bad or worse: the letters aren't even lined up with the gate positions.
stephen987 says:
02:59 PM, 10/ 4/09
I rarely experience throttle-mat interference. But I have experienced clutch-mat interference when the mats are out of place. Bottom of clutch pedal slides under front edge of mat. Anyone else?
actualsize says:
07:13 AM, 10/ 5/09
@tinyelvis: All five vowels and a "Q"!
@stephen987: I've had clutch-mat interference that prevented the clutch pedal from stroking far enough to properly disengage the clutch.
@carlisimo: Our 2009 Ford Flex was in-fact delivered from the dealer with the factory all-weather floor mats sitting on top of the standard carpet ones. Of course the hooks can only secure the lowermost ones. I took the all-weather mats out, but I was far from the first driver of the Flex. One set of mats at a time, people.
@ghiafan: The universal nature of floor mat inadequacy as documented here makes me suspect that the higher level of Toyota complaints has more than one cause.
lvision says:
11:28 AM, 11/18/09
Floor mat workaround?
I think Mr. Dan Edmunds wasted his time to beat around the bush, around the floor mat and the gas pedal to get nowhere.
What he really needed to do was to re-create the accident that killed 4 people with the floor mat. The victims' car was going at 120mph and the brake didn't work as they reported while calling for help. Their car crashed and they were killed.
120mph was full speed at full throttle.
I'd like to see how Mr. Edmunds beats the floor mat around in such a way that it will cause the full throttle to occur and to make the brake useless.