2010 Mazdaspeed 3: The Track Numbers

I've driven the 1st generation MS3 a few times. Although the chassis and its overall performance was excellent I didn't find the engine to be all that satisfying. Sure' it was both powerful and torquey but the power band was a bit narrow and rather odd. It seemed like bad tuning.

Does 2010 have the same engine characteristics?

The dissapointing 0-60mph figure is due to the 'torque management' or TM feature in all boosted Mazda's ECUs. It reduced torque (power) in 1-3rd gears in order to reduce torque steer, but of course less power in the lower gears = poor 0-60mph.

I really think IL should spring for the Cobb Accessport tuner for this car and remove the TM and see how it does. It'll be a bit more of a handful in a low speed corner exit (torque steeeeeeeeeeeeeer) but the low speed acceleration should be noticably better.

The dissapointing 0-60mph figure is due to the 'torque management' or TM feature in all boosted Mazda's ECUs. It reduced torque (power) in 1-3rd gears in order to reduce torque steer, but of course less power in the lower gears = poor 0-60mph.

I really think IL should spring for the Cobb Accessport tuner for this car and remove the TM and see how it does. It'll be a bit more of a handful in a low speed corner exit (torque steeeeeeeeeeeeeer) but the low speed acceleration should be noticably better.

The dissapointing 0-60mph figure is due to the 'torque management' or TM feature in all boosted Mazda's ECUs. It reduced torque (power) in 1-3rd gears in order to reduce torque steer, but of course less power in the lower gears = poor 0-60mph.

I really think IL should spring for the Cobb Accessport tuner for this car and remove the TM and see how it does. It'll be a bit more of a handful in a low speed corner exit (torque steeeeeeeeeeeeeer) but the low speed acceleration should be noticably better.

Just to clarify something amorak mentioned, only FWD cars with Mazda's MZR 2.3 engine utilize the torque management system; my AWD Mazdaspeed6, with the exact same engine, has the full 270 horsepower available at all times. (DSC intervention not withstanding)

The numbers pretty much go along with that; a ~300lb heavier Speed6 will normally run the quarter in about 14 flat at 99-100mph, but gets to 60 in markedly under 6 seconds.

hondacura4:

As far as I know, and from what I remember from Edmund's review of the car (I haven't yet had a chance to drive the new one), besides some minor changes in gearing, the powertrain is unchanged. I imagine it'll have pretty much that same ~2500-5900rpm powerband as before.

Actually, the 0-60 time is not at all inhibited by torque management (which is most active when turning). This car has more than enough power to spin the tires at launch. Wheelspin is what truly limits its accelerative abilities and if the wheels are spinning it's hard to blame torque management.

I would, however, be curious what the car is like in everyday driving without the torque management constantly looming over the driver. I'm sure there are scenarios where it would be quicker without TM, but straight-line acceleration isn't one of them.

Josh

Having tuned a number of the first gen MS3's with Protuner, I wouldn't recommend removing the torque management, at least not in first gear. Wheelspin just becomes ridiculous.

That said, the horrible torque dropoff after 5000 rpm in the first gen car can be largely delayed until 6000 rpm with tuning and it makes the engine much, much more enjoyable.

"Sure' it was both powerful and torquey but the power band was a bit narrow and rather odd. It seemed like bad tuning."

What's even more "fun" is the fact that the power band seems to move around on an arbitrary basis. It's like you never are driving the same engine twice.

I'm with hondaacrua4 when it comes to the MS3's engine. I drove numerous 1st gen cars, and that engine was one of the most frustrating powerplants I've ever come across. Horrendous lag until 3,000rpm followed by shoulder-dislocating torque steer, and then nothing between 5,000rpm and the redline. Oh, and at cruise the exhaust droned like a tuner car. The MS3 is fast, and I completely see the appeal of carrier-launch acceleration in a $23k car, but I'd much rather have the more civilized GTi or more involving Civic Si. Stoplight duels and magazine racing were never really my thing anyway.

You guyz have to get a COBB Accessport when it's released for the 2010 model year. It will open the top end, which is probably still limited by the throttle closing up after 5500rpm.

Those of you who want a tuned MS3 should buy the Cobb AP and immediately give church123 a call. The complexity of the programming in the MS3 ECU makes individual tuning a requirement. The COBB OTS maps are really hit-or-miss, working fine on some cars but not others.

Just can't fathom buying this car over a WRX wagon. Not sure why anyone would put up with the FWD for about the same money.

And if you want civilized, the GTI 4 door.

blueguydotcom,

You should really drive the MS3. It's got a really nice chassis - better I think than the base WRX. And, AWD launch excepted, it is faster too. Certainly the decision was much easier before Subaru upgraded the 09 WRX, and I don't like that much power in FWD cars, but the MS3 is an appealing combo for many people.

"Just can't fathom buying this car over a WRX wagon. Not sure why anyone would put up with the FWD for about the same money."

I must have suffered from an undiagnosed stroke, as I did something infinitely more stupid; I passed on a pristine CPO E46 M3. No sunroof with manual seats. The only options were Xenons, 19" wheels, and H-K audio. Like a moron, I thought that the MS3 would be an interesting change of pace from my usual RWD Bavarian iron(wrong), entertaining to drive(wrong), and reliable and inexpensive to run(wrong).
Aside from all that, the MS3 has been a joy.
Bleah.

No matter how cheap this car is, doesnt appeal to me.

I am severly underwhelmed by that 0-60 time. Thought that this thing was supposed to be some kind of rocket?

/\

0-60 in around six seconds to me sounds fine. (its a rocket when you are daily drive a 10.5 second 0-60 capable honda fit.)

i will say this though, the quarter mile time and trap speed are much more indicative of how much power it has.

anyone check out the road and track test of the new mkI6 gti? they got their dsg equipped model to do the deed in 5.8. pretty impressive considering horsepower has stayed the same. (weight has dropped slightly though)

makes me wonder why edmunds hasn't ever tested a GTI dsg. (is it really VW's fault that they offer other transmission options?) i know they have a love affair with the ms3....but heaven forbid they give the winning title to a car that isn't putting up the best numbers.

i know i'm partial, but its hard to fault the gti in the daily driver department. civilized ftw.

"i know i'm partial, but its hard to fault the gti in the daily driver department. civilized ftw."

I really liked the DSG GTI that I test drove, but the Louisville area VW dealers are staffed by complete idiots; they claim that they can't special order cars, and their service departments are abysmal.

@roadburner - I feel that way about my near miss of a 2008 M3 in February. My son got sick and I didn't just arrange the deal via phone. I made a mistake that resulted in my 335i. It's a fine car but looking back an M3 sedan with almost no features would have fit me better. I like my 335i... but when an M3 rolls by and I hear than engine I get chills.

Not everyone wants a WRX or a Subaru for that matter. The cost is significantly higher when you option up and not to mention they're ugly and bland both inside and out. I'd take ugly and different (10' MS3) over hopelessly bland and frumpy (WRX)

"but when an M3 rolls by and I hear than engine I get chills. "

I STILL regret selling my 1988 M6.

Blueguy,

I bought my '09 MS3 over a WRX. Why? Because I didnt' get laughed at when I said I wanted to pay $20k for it. I doubt you could even get a base Impreza for that money, but I left with a 260hp car.

I'm sticking my MS3 in the garage until I find something to replace it with; no point in piling on any more mundane miles if I don't have to...

I testdrove a GTI DSG back to back (had been daily driving a friend's eos 2.0t for a while) with an 09 MS3 and had the same thoughts as many of you. The MS3 may have quicker track times, but around town the power isn't all that noticeable. I much preferred the always ready to go nature of the gti versus the how can i wrestle this thing across the street nature of the MS3. It's chassis seemed extremely tight, but you can't find many faults with the GTI's chassis....It's suspension was dialed in well and definitely had tons of grip, but the GTI soaked up 90% of bumps compared to the MS3's 20%.
If I had a track in my backyard, hell yeah I'd take the Mazda.
But I don't.

"If I had a track in my backyard, hell yeah I'd take the Mazda. "

I bought my MS3 to use as a daily driver and as my primary HPDE car. Believe me, it's not all that much fun on the track either.