2010 Mazdaspeed 3: Introduction

I approve!

Just please don't get like a modified version of the Mazdaspeed 3. (Caugh Caugh Evo)

Also, I want to see a new Equinox in IL 's Future.

Love it!

This is a car I've been waiting to see on LTRTB for years! Can't wait to see if you guys think this is a serious contender for day to day use, as it may be my first sporty car purchase, when I bite the bullet in a couple years...

Very good choice.

So does this mean one of the editors is going to update the current list of vehicles in the IL fleet to what's actually current in the IL fleet?

Solid choice, will actually affect some purchasing decisions I'm sure

awesome choice which i look forward to reading about.

A little off topic though, but is there gonna be a replacement for the old m3/308 type cars? Reading about those was always my favorite and i look forward to seeing what is next. A new equinox or outback would be nice as well.

Yay. I was hoping for this or the GTI. I'll probably have to go GTI as the new Mazdaspeed3 is a bit too Boy-Racer for the image I want to present to my clients.

I'd like to see them buy a used Boxster or 911 as the sacrificial used car next. If I were going to blow $25k or thereabouts on a slightly used midlife crisis, that's where I'd be looking.

I'm a fan of hot hatches and a MS3 has been on my short list for a while. I'm looking forward to this.

MY2010 MS3 vs. MY2009-2010 WRX 5-door vs. MY2010 Lancer Ralliart Sportback comparo please!

Wow, I didn't see that coming at all. That said, it's a great choice for the fleet as it has been a hot hatch favorite for a while now.

It would be cool if a new GTI was added to the LT fleet, too. A lot of people, myself included, cross-shop these two cars. Maybe even let the GTI be a DSG. It'll probably win for interior, refinement, etc. but lots of us wonder about reliability with VW. Is it better? Is the interior of the MS3 adequate for a daily driver? Comfortable? Etc. For straight-up performance, I think it's clear the MS3 wins. But there are a lot more factors in evaluating a daily driver than numbers or so-called soft-touch interiors. (Then there's the whole looks issue.)

It would make for a well-read comparison between two cars that are often cross-shopped. Something more useful than simple road tests for those of us who might actually buy one of these cars who care about more than first impressions and test numbers.

Great choice! Although I've only sampled the new Grand Touring Mazda3, I found it to be pretty entertaining in terms of the chassis/suspension setup. It's very well executed and I loved the high end features. Great car for the money but the interior is a bit tight compared to the more airy and open Civic.

As far as the GTI is concerned, I like the classy Germanic presentation and high level of perceived quality but I just didn't find it to be one of those cars that asked to be driven hard. The engine although torquey, wasn't really all that pleasant in terms of character or sound. I like the GTI but in terms of driving pleasure and entertainment I'd go with the Civic Si sedan, or MS3 without pause.

@hondacura4 I really hope the next refresh of the Civic SI gets a hatch version again. Maybe without that funky console mounted shifter.

Awesome choice guys. I have been hoping you'd add one for a while now! This will definitely be a fun read.

I second several things here....

1)Suby - "MY2010 MS3 vs. MY2009-2010 WRX 5-door vs. MY2010 Lancer Ralliart Sportback comparo please!".....I agree!!!! For the video here, it would be cool to see/hear a cockpit cam when the car is accelerating (like the track test videos).
2) You should add a 2010 Outback. It is Motor Trend's 2010 SUVOTY

I test drove a MS3 a couple years ago. The controls were dull and the engine was irritating. The GTI, in contrast, was orgasmic. The MS3 looks great on paper, but that's it. Cars like the Civic Si look dull on paper, but the shifter and engine are a joy. If the steering and suspension were better, I'd take one in an instant.

I ended up in a 528i. No regrets.

*Que the posts about the styling

Thank God, not another Audi or BMW.

Love it, but still waiting for you guys to pick up a Genesis Coupe 3.8 with the track package.

Edmunds - Your website layout and various commenting bugs have, over the past few months, really pushed me away from commenting or visiting your site as often. This is a true shame, but for some reason it's just not as conducive.

Anyway, onto the topic at hand:

Great choice and I'll second that this would be good to compare against the GTI. These cars are what mainstream median income car enthusiasts buy.....practical yet a little funky, and with some performance. I've not driven the new GTI, and I found the old one to have a boring engine (yes, the 2.0t, boring) and a rubber-band like ride. And I test drove it 3 times over a period of a year trying to find the magic that others felt.

I hope you get some posts up about this thing pronto :)

Joe

Looking forward to reading about the new car. With some of the long term vehicles being well over a year, the posts are definitely getting stale...so we will welcome all new cars! I hate hate hate the looks of this vehicle, so I'm curious whether the editors impressions, if positive, will be enough to make me discount the looks and become more interested in the vehicle. I love hot hatches but have always idolized the GTI. I'm looking forward to reading more.

The new GTI is ugly too. It doesn't smile anymore, just has 2 red lines in the front. Whats with these hot hatch makers.
Either way really good choice.

OT but........ I'd like to know if the IL staff is responsible for the stripe job on the pavement in the picture. And, if so, what car or cars were used to do the deed.

Woohoo! I came close to getting an '09 MS3 in February and have been really interested in the new one. My one worry was how it will hold up even over the first 30K or so. I'm really interested to see how this car will do under the traditional Edmunds abuse. That being said, I'd like to see the GTI with DSG tested as well. Heck, even a CC. I've heard so many horror stories about VW reliability. I just have to know how they do.

I agree with joefrompa. The new format makes me visit the site less and comment even less.

Pointless choice. Why get such a limited appeal vehicle? If you are going to get a 3 it should be a model representative of what most will actually buy. That said, any long term test of the 3 is unnecessary because there is nothing to learn about the car. Since the 2010 model has been praised as a perfect vehicle with no noticeable flaws there is nothing to gain from this test. They love it now and will love it a year from now. Why not get something that is under the radar or unexpected?

"Thank God, not another Audi or BMW."

Agreed.

"@hondacura4 I really hope the next refresh of the Civic SI gets a hatch version again. Maybe without that funky console mounted shifter."

Dsheppard1, I found it weird at first as the shifter was funky for those who never drove it but if you ever sampled it, it made complete sense as it was right next to the steering wheel. This setup was actually very nice in spirited driving as you didn't have to move your hand far to shift. Great setup that's actually used in our 05 Odyssey Touring although its an automatic.

The last generation Si wasn't well liked because of several reasons:

- Honda enthusiasts wanted a LIGHT WEIGHT Si hatchback like the earlier EF (88-91), EG (92-95) and EK (96-00) designs.

- The DOHC i-VTEC 2.0 engine wasn't a true DOHC i-VTEC engine as it used the intake only economy version of VTEC not the performance oriented version, the lack of a 8000RPM redline diluted it's character, and the fact that it used a 5MT instead of the expected 6MT only made matters worse. It didn't have all the expected Si characteristics in place as it couldn't step on the Acura RSX-S toes.

- Styling was a bit on the blah side although the Honda HFP kit it looked pretty good.

- The fact that Honda offered that same body style in EP3 Civic Type R form in the European market was a smack in the face for us U.S. Honda enthusiasts as it was the perfect car for U.S. consumption.

Neal over at TOV (Temple of VTEC) who produces the TOV monthly desktop calenders made a Civic Si Touring (wagon) concept that looked pretty good. Of course it's base it the current Si sedan. I wouldn't mind an Si wagon at all as I could use it to transport my projects for school yet still have all that Si goodness for the trip home. Further expanding the Civic line (3dr/5dr) would only add to its success. Lemme' see if I can find that picture.

Courtesy of Neal @ TOV:

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-image?image=836060/hfpcivicsitouring_nm.jpg

I'll throw in my vote for a GTI as well. It has been a favorite of mine since its launch, and I'd go so far as to say that it's the best car that ~$25k can buy when all things are taken into account.

This is the only sub-$30,000 vehicle that I would consider. Looking forward to reading about it.

PLease do not add a GTI. The GTI and MS3 are favorites of the media and a subset of enthusiasts but they do not sell in notable numbers. Compact hatches are NOT what most US consumers are interested in and there is no need to add more of these types of vehicles. Please try and add some vehicles with larger appeal but I guess that all depends on what you can get for free since you aren't buying many cars anymore.

"The GTI and MS3 are favorites of the media and a subset of enthusiasts"

Well, this is an enthusiast blog on an enthusiast website.

+3 on "Thank got not another BMW or Audi" I'm excited to hear how this one goes - though I'd probably not buy one regardless.

I'd like to see the Outback - there aren't any subies in your stable anymore.

A fine choice. I'll be interested to see if the 2010 MS3 exhibits the same faults as the 2007-2009- such as:
weak shocks
bad turbo seals
faulty PCV system
BTDT.

"Well, this is an enthusiast blog on an enthusiast website."

Is it really? Is that why the 6, Flex, SX4, Insight, Civic GX, Genesis, etc. are in the fleet? Give me a break. That excuse comes up whenever someone asks for a car that the EVO/STI/MS3 crowed doesn't want to read about. Edmunds.com doesn't have a separate long term fleet so IL's fleet is all that exists here to learn about cars over the course of a year. "enthusiast sites" aren't likely to praise vehicles like the Insight or Sx4 or Fit.

I'm not into Subarus but it would be nice to see something practical and unheralded added to the lineup. The MS3 can do no wrong and we don't need a year's worth of entries to tell us what we already know. Can we get an SHO, Fusion, Outback, Forte or Equinox?

+1 "Edmunds - Your website layout and various commenting bugs have, over the past few months, really pushed me away from commenting or visiting your site as often. This is a true shame, but for some reason it's just not as conducive."

+1 "You should add a 2010 Outback. It is Motor Trend's 2010 SUVOTY"

I have noted that Motor Trend tends to have more balanced reporting on vehicles (not rating BMWs as god-machines for one) and is willing to actually note some negative driving characteristics of the 135 rather than just heap praise. I've been enjoying their site more both due to the biased reporting on IL and the difficult to navigate and slow to load IL pages. I hope this changes as there used to be some really good journalism on this site (to the point where I enjoyed it over the other car enthusiast websites). Sadly, gone are the thoughtful columns now replaced with misspellings & misinformation in blogs & a "column written in his own blood" which just riles the constituency.

Lets bring back the thoughtful articles, comparos, odd matchups, and thoughtful columns that made IL a great website. The small blips of info are only appetizers, lets eat steak again!

Finally, perhaps you need a feedback comment somewhere else besides a blog? Thanks!

It seems like there were plenty of flaws with the original MS3, even though it was well liked. I'm looking forward to seeing if its the case with the new model too. I'm also looking forward to hearing if the editors can deal with and/or learn to like the smiley. I think there is lots of potential content, so its a good vehicle choice.

Great choice! :)

"I'm also looking forward to hearing if the editors can deal with and/or learn to like the smiley."

Yes, I think the front fascia is hideous. Another thing I don't like is that the '10 is only available in Sport trim, meaning that Xenons and other upgrades available on the '07-'09 MS3 Grand Touring are simply unavailable. On top of that you can't get the sound system upgrade without the blasted Nav system. For those reasons I wouldn't consider a 2010- even if my MS3 had been 100% flawless. That said, how about a 2007 STi LT car? I just found a really nice one up the road a bit...;)

1487 "Why get such a limited appeal vehicle? If you are going to get a 3 it should be a model representative of what most will actually buy."

I think it was stated in one of the 3 road tests that multiple editors already own Mazda 3s. Why add a model to the fleet that they already own? This is a good test in a segment that resonates with the IL audience. I have heard stories of the MS3's warts getting exposed in ownership, so I want to see if that happens.

"I've been enjoying their site more both due to the biased reporting on IL and the difficult to navigate and slow to load IL pages. I hope this changes as there used to be some really good journalism on this site (to the point where I enjoyed it over the other car enthusiast websites). Sadly, gone are the thoughtful columns now replaced with misspellings & misinformation in blogs & a "column written in his own blood" which just riles the constituency. "

I think you are asking too much. Comedy and arrogance is more valued that accuracy or thoughfulness in terms of IL content- as evidenced by the nonsense the Mechanic posts.

I think they should offer three LT vehicle choices per category and allow users to vote for the winner. That would be better than arbitrary selections.

"Is it really? Is that why the 6, Flex, SX4, Insight, Civic GX, Genesis, etc. are in the fleet? Give me a break."

Why would non-enthusiasts read daily updates on a car blog?

^^ its possible to be an enthusiast but still curious about regular vehicles. I love Aston Martins, but I like practical information on what could more realistically become my next vehicle. Enthusiast and powerful/racing do not have to go together.

or rather, i should say they do not always go together.

I wonder if it is possible to install the front bumper from the previous MS3. The new smiley face bumper is soooo bad, and with the intake cutout on the hood, it looks like a psychotic beluga whale.

I like the performance of the Mazda Speed 3, but I'll never get over it's fugly looks. I'd rather have the previous generation Speed 3 because it looks more decent.

However, I'd rather have a Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart sedan even though it's slower. Better yet, I'd much rather have the Euro Spec Focus RS if Ford ever releases it into the states.

Speaking of additions to the IL Longterm Fleet, I'd much rather see the Ford Fusion (in any spec), Taurus (in any spec) or Subaru Forester & Outback. Even something unexpected...like a Chevy ZR-1 or Ford F-150 Raptor...

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the Mazda but why do you guys continue to avoid the Ford Fusion. CR appears to be jumping up and down about the reliability, so why not be the first publication to substantiate that. Think outside of the box for once.

A Fusion Sport/Hybrid, Taurus Limited, Subbie anything and a Lacrosse should have been snatched up before the MSP3.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the Mazda but why do you guys continue to avoid the Ford Fusion. CR appears to be jumping up and down about the reliability, so why not be the first publication to substantiate that. Think outside of the box for once.

A Fusion Sport/Hybrid, Taurus Limited, Subbie anything and a Lacrosse should have been snatched up before the MSP3.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the Mazda but why do you guys continue to avoid the Ford Fusion. CR appears to be jumping up and down about the reliability, so why not be the first publication to substantiate that. Think outside of the box for once.

A Fusion Sport/Hybrid, Taurus Limited, Subbie anything and a Lacrosse should have been snatched up before the MSP3.

Awesome choice. A car I actually want to drive and can afford. Looking forward to the write-ups. Now work on a Fusion of any kind.

Hideous car. I think the regular 3 would've been a much more appropriate vehicle to add to the fleet as opposed to the limited appeal Speed version.

I second what Joe said, the new website sucks. Why is everything so huge? Edmunds needs to hire a quality control editor to fact check some of these articles before they go live. There are errors in almost everything I read from this site. I used to email them everytime I found one but then I figured hey, they get paid for this stuff and I don't so I'll just mind my business.

SABASTIAN,
Check out the review of the 2010 GTI on cars.about.com by Aaron Gold.

^Nice review. Love for the GTI is pretty easy to find as it is one of those cars that does so many things well. Reliability and cost of ownership were the two things that kept me away, but the Mk VI might be better in those areas.

Sweet. The tech package adds a lot.. of weight too I imagine.

A gutless choice. Mazdas sells far less cars than even Kia......Now if it was a 3 with automatic then that would be a good LT car. Why not test cars that people buy? How about at least ONE of the top five selling cars in the top selling trim?

bodyblue, My guess is that IL looks at the most researched cars on their site and then picks from those. Remember, IL is the enthusiast side of Edmunds.com, so their audience is probably more likely to read updates on an enthusiast-oriented car. I understand the sales argument, but IL has already had 9 of the 10 cars on 2008's top sellers list.

Sabastian- or IL simply takes whatever cars the manufacturers are willing to give them for free.

"Why would non-enthusiasts read daily updates on a car blog?"

Why would the cars be here if IL agreed with your "logic" that people on this site only want to read about sporty cars? Besides, who wrote in stone that "enthusiasts" only care about sporty cars. I like the CTS-V and Camaro SS but neither is practical for me and my family and niether is in my price range. This idea that anyone who likes high performance cars is too sophsticated to care about "boring" cars is ridiculous.

" its possible to be an enthusiast but still curious about regular vehicles. I love Aston Martins, but I like practical information on what could more realistically become my next vehicle. Enthusiast and powerful/racing do not have to go together."

Well said sir.

"A Fusion Sport/Hybrid, Taurus Limited, Subbie anything and a Lacrosse should have been snatched up before the MSP3. "

Thank You. Someone gets it. I bet every major auto magazine will test the MS3 for 1 year. If you all havent noticed many of the cars you see here are being tested by the other magazines which suggests what we get it limited largely by what is being offered for free. The M3, Mazda6, Insight, A4 Avant, etc. are being tested by other magazines for a year. The funny thing is MT has an M3, 6 and A4 that match the colors of the IL vehicles.

"bodyblue, My guess is that IL looks at the most researched cars on their site and then picks from those. Remember, IL is the enthusiast side of Edmunds.com, so their audience is probably more likely to read updates on an enthusiast-oriented car."

Um, no. This is what's being offered by the manufacturer. Most car companies offer loaded versions of their vehicles to magazines.

Edmunds has had 9 of top 10 sellers recently? I don't recall seeing an F150, Cr-V, corolla, etc. in the fleet. Few of the top 10 are sporty vehicles which according to your logic would make them poor choices for the fleet.

"Why would the cars be here if IL agreed with your "logic" that people on this site only want to read about sporty cars? Besides, who wrote in stone that "enthusiasts" only care about sporty cars. I like the CTS-V and Camaro SS but neither is practical for me and my family and niether is in my price range."

I didn't say that enthusiasts ONLY want to read about sporty cars, I was simply suggesting that those who read a car blog are more likely to be enthusiasts and therefore more likely to be interested in enthusiast-oriented cars. The CTS-V and Camaro SS are sporty cars, are they not? Doug made a good point. Cars like the Flex, XC60, Camcord, etc are in the fleet because enthusiasts may still be interested in them.

I second (or more like 50th?) the vote to add a GTI as well.
with a six speed manual.

thanks.

ps. i'll be eager to read about the MS3

I really like the look of this car. Can't wait to read more about the team driving it!

"I didn't say that enthusiasts ONLY want to read about sporty cars, I was simply suggesting that those who read a car blog are more likely to be enthusiasts and therefore more likely to be interested in enthusiast-oriented cars. "

Thats fine but there is no shortage of sporty cars in the fleet. Camaro, M3, A4, FX, G8, etc. There are numerous mass market vehicles out that are generating lots of interest and NO ONE is testing them. Taurus, Fusion and Equinox come to mind. If anyone is missing the trend it appears domestically supplied press cars are all but nonexistent and thus we aren't getting any of the newer more interesting models except Camaro- which they purchased.

"Edmunds has had 9 of top 10 sellers recently? I don't recall seeing an F150, Cr-V, corolla, etc. in the fleet. Few of the top 10 are sporty vehicles which according to your logic would make them poor choices for the fleet."

I'll admit you got me on that one. I was looking at the December 2008 sales figures which listed the following:
* Ford F-Series: 41,580
* Chevy Silverado: 33,340
* Toyota Camry: 25,275
* Honda Accord: 22,348
* Toyota Corolla: 22,129
* Chevy Impala: 21,148
* Chevy Malibu: 17,355
* Nissan Altima: 17,311
* Honda Civic: 17,302
* Dodge Ram: 16,618

For the 2008 year:

* Ford F-Series: 515,513
* Chevy Silverado: 465,065
* Toyota Camry: 436,617
* Honda Accord: 372,789
* Toyota Corolla: 351,007
* Honda Civic: 339,289
* Nissan Altima: 269,668
* Chevy Impala: 265,840
* Dodge Ram: 245,840
* Honda CR-V: 197,279

On this list, it's 8 of 10. Edmunds had an F-150 in 2004. The 09 F-150 would be a logical choice, though.

"Um, no. This is what's being offered by the manufacturer. Most car companies offer loaded versions of their vehicles to magazines."

Judging by the number of positive comments on this post, I'd say it's a fairly popular car with this crowd.

Judging by number of negative posts I would say it was the wrong choice. I will say that it is at least affordable to a lot of Americans. .........not these stupid $50,000+ vanity mirrors that some people call cars.

"it's 8 of 10"

oops...make that 7. That's still a good representation. The Impala has been around so long that an LT test wouldn't make much sense at this point, and the Corolla isn't really a stand-out in the class.

"Judging by the number of positive comments on this post, I'd say it's a fairly popular car with this crowd."

Look at the demographic of the crowd- all automobile lovers. The base 3 is the car 90% of its buyers will consider, not the Speed version.

It's interesting why IL did not get the previous generation as a long term tester but got the new and improved version. The old one definitely had its drawbacks but since it had sporty handling, no one cared. Now it seems those issues have been address and we can pretend that the old car was perfect when it was far from such. Or maybe Mazda simply didn't offer that one as a freebie...

"Judging by number of negative posts I would say it was the wrong choice."

You think this intro has a lot of negative posts? Check out the intro for the Project Evo GSR. Wow.

The Evo GSR was just a wet dream for gearheads. A truly pointless endeavor. I question the sanity of anyone who would spend that much money modifying an already overpriced AWD economy car. Heck, you'd be better off getting an overpriced used M3 and keeping the change for the expensive repair bills.

I don't LOVE the new face, but if it's moves are all that is promised...well, you know! I have read that refinement is up, but torque steer is still problematic. Still, this car is quite possibley the most fun you can get for $25K!

Darn you IL, you are the worst car enthusiast blog in the world! And yet I will come back every single day and post here...

337 says:
02:22 PM, 10/28/09

To blog, or not to blog...to blog!

one more vote for an ms3 v. wrx test

"I'm thinking of making my next car a Jaguar, BMW, or C63, over the CTS-V to contribute to making people like Lutz go away"

Thats fine but the bottom line is this car is hardly representative of what most 3 owners will buy. They have this car because its what MAzda is offering. Most people don't drive sticks and most people shopping for a compact arent looking to spend $26k.

On second thought, I think IL SHOULD add more dreary transportation appliances to the LT fleet. Reading about them makes me thankful that one of them isn't parked in my garage...