2010 Honda Insight: Stiffy

Audi R8 V10....that small portion alone is more interesting to look at than the honda insight!

I'm disappointed in Honda too.

It's almost as if they are saying... "Sure the Prius is better in everyway then our clone but at least we're a little cheaper."

I would expect more from an engineering company like Honda.

No excuse for that kind of vibration, my Jeep has a stiff suspension and run flat tires and on all but really cold days it has a nice ride.

Honda is now synonymous with garbage.

Period. This is one of the most miserable cars released by any manufacturer in the past 3 years, and it's another string of crappy Hondas, ranging from the current gen Accord to the current gen Fit. You can't sit inside any Honda today without being reminded you're in a car where they cut corners every time you bang your elbow against the crappy hard plastic or bang down the freeway with the suspension that is neither exciting nor soothing. That's just not acceptable in an age where you can buy a Ford, Nissan, Mazda, or GM product that's good at both.

Hondas are reliable, and by reliable I do mean their transmission won't crap out until 40,000 miles.

Now there are many exceptions to what mikeolan says, like the S2000 for instance, but yeah there has been too much garbage in the Honda lineup, and I think it's been more than three years. The Civic has been an ergonomic nightmare for myself (and other people I know who are over 5'10") for a decade now, our old Accord (the '94-'97, granted not the most well liked example) was pretty much awful in every way, combining obnoxious mechanical issues with an uncomfortable ride with poor handling with a cramped cabin with a V6 that barely averaged 20 MPG but felt wheezy getting up to freeway speed...all for $25k, and you still didn't get a CD player in the top-of-the-line model. It did nothing well, except look beige inside and out. That it did very well.

"Hondas are reliable, and by reliable I do mean their transmission won't crap out until 40,000 miles."

Mikeolan, that's very old news as Honda hasn't had any failures with the revised 3 shaft 5AT as we have one in my 2005 Honda Odyssey Touring. 78K and not one single mechanical or electrical issue. Most of the transmission issues were with 99-03 Acura TL's/CL's, 00-02 Acura MDX's, 99-02 Honda Accord V6's, 99-02 Honda Odyssey's and a few Prelude AT's here and there. Honda addressed this issue years ago.

FYI, in late 2005 Honda introduced a revised and much stronger 4 shaft 5AT which was first used in the 2006 Honda Ridgeline and later implemented in all other Honda/Acura V6 applications as well as the RDX. This updated transmission has proven to be bulletproof and the all new 6AT that will debut in the 2010 Acura ZDX and 2010 MDX should be just as reliable and should trickle down the pipeline to other Acura/Honda vehicles.

I for one don't think Honda's are garbage. Sure, they don't stand out like they used to as "the others" have caught up or advanced in many ways. The fact is, they had to catch up!

Although I don't agree with everything Honda does nor do I love every product they make, Honda is still a very small yet extremely competitive vehicle manufacturer. What people fail to realize is that Honda has chosen to invest substantially in future products that will again put them ahead of the game. That said, "the others" will eventually have to play catch up once again.

From Temple of VTEC and Honda CEO Takanobu Ito during a Q&A session that was held for North American media at Honda's headquarters in Tokyo :

"Honda's message at the 2009 Tokyo Motor Show was very clear, and this message was reinforced by CEO Takanobu Ito during a Q&A session that was held for North American media at Honda's headquarters in Tokyo this afternoon. The topics ranged from Honda's position on BEVs (Battery-powered Electric Vehicles) to their plans for future sports cars, but for the most part the conversations always circled back to Honda's view of eco-technologies: Hybrid Electric Vehicles in the near- to mid-term, and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles for the long run. "

"If you were holding onto a sliver of hope that the V10 supercar project would be someday resurrected, you might want to sit down. Based upon today's conversation, the V10 supercar project has virtually zero chance of resurrection. We were even told (in a separate conversation) that Ito-san himself was responsible for cancelling the V-10 supercar project. Any sort of future super sportscar would only be considered once Honda has cleared several development hurdles for environmental technology, including hybrid technology suitable for larger vehicles, plug-in hybrid technology, and hydrogen battery fuel cells. "Once we come up with these new, innovative technologies that we are researching - once we have (an) abundance of cash on hand - I would definitely love to see Honda develop a sports car which would symbolize these technologies", said Ito. "And, once that day comes, the sportscar will NOT be something like Toyota announced yesterday, but instead it will be environmentally friendly (while) at the same time enjoying outstanding performance. I'd love to do that."

"A followup question from a journalist in the audience specifically asked about Honda's plans for diesel. Essentially, Honda has shelved their plans for introducing diesel in the US, and there were several factors involved. First off, development was delayed by about a year due to difficulties meeting emissions regulations. Honda resolved the difficulties, but the solutions were costly. Faced with these costs, Honda's board of directors ultimately gave up on the idea of offering diesel technology in the US. However, Honda are continuing to work on the technology in hopes of making the costs more reasonable. "

"Though it has been reported that Honda has changed their tune on BEVs, Ito-san makes it very clear that Honda's position remains consistent. That position is the notion that Hydrogen is the long term solution, and they are dedicated towards working to that end. Honda's position on BEVs has softened a bit in that they are recognizing that BEVs are suitable for a limited set of applications involving short-range urban driving environments. Hydrogen fuel cell vehicle development will remain the primary focus. "

"When asked if there would be other sporty models coming forth to replace "accessible" sports models such as the Integra/RSX and S2000, the response from Ito-san was that the CR-Z would be the answer to that question and there were "no other plans for the time being, but yes I would like to be able to consider such possibilities".

"I asked Ito-san how Honda's sharpened focus on environmental technology fit in with the vision for Acura as a brand and the luxury market in general. The answer was that Acura would be re-focused on delivering the performance levels sought by premium/luxury car buyers, and these performance levels would be coupled with strong environmental performance. In a later conversation, Ito-san admitted that there's a "certain level of confusion" in the existing Acura lineup, and they would work to fix that."

"Ito-san said they Honda are open to the possibility of combining forces with a like-minded automaker, but given the fundamental differences in corporate philosophies that currently exist, it is not a likely scenario."

Honda has proven time and again that forward thinking and planing is the key to their overall success even in this global financial crisis. Instead of focusing on a 500+ HP super sedan challenge or producing a 550hp V10 powered $500K super high performance GT they have chosen to invest in the future automotive landscape that will be quite different that what it is now. Although I would have liked to have seen that V10 NSX successor produced and the high performance RWD offerings from Acura that were canceled, I can't blame Honda for refocusing their R&D teams and shifting their limited financial resources to invest heavily in the future.

Honda has always done its own thing and its decision to focus on developing and refining new vehicular environmental technologies is no different. I will admit, when I first read this I was a bit skeptical and frustrated given that many manufacturers are producing some truly awesome sports cars, luxury cars, compacts and sports sedans ETC ETC, however those substantial investments aren't futuristic as they still cater to today's automobile landscape. Honda is investing the NEXT generation of the automobile landscape and because of that they will be one of the few who help define that landscape which we know is coming. I never thought I'd witness an extreme and substantial change in the way automobiles are developed and designed in my lifetime, however it will become reality sooner than we think and Honda will be at the front of the pack and heavily benefit from its investment. Say what you will, I will continue to be a Honda enthusiast.

In regards to in the Insight, I see and understand what it represents and why Honda built it. However, I don't think Honda should have developed it using the "built to price" mentality as first priority as Honda could have easily equaled or exceeded the level of refinement and substance the Prius possesses yet still been able to deliver it at a lower price. In truth, like every other automobile manufacturer, Honda isn't perfect.

@hondacura4

You make several good points on Honda's direction but I would like to point out one or two possible weakness in Ito-san's plan.

1. The cars that are built for today pay for cars of the future.

Honda in this respect has always seemed to gamble by going ahead today by a small margin (about 2-5 years at most IMHO) and that has paid off considerably for them but because of the sheer investment needed to go green those gambles have to a certain degree weakened them financially thus they have problems trying to pay for the R&D to do the job right.

And still provide a product that is still in demand by those who are not phased by all the green madness (to use a polite term) and have a quality one at that.

Which leads me to point 2

2. Crap cars tend to stick around in peoples mind for decades.

Everyone remembers the Pinto with its vulnerable rear end and now the Insight with its Prius looks and wanna be efficiency coupled with stiff as hell ride (According to Kurt N.).

These are just two examples of cars that when you mention just about everyone knows about in a negative light, combine that with the slow but noticeable decline in quality on Honda's part (And no they are not alone, I know.) these add up on top of the Future Eco-Tech cars that Honda is gambling so heavily on makes the chances that even if the Eco-cars are good and reliable they will be under the radar for the most part due to carry overs from generations past.

The only two ways to remedy that is either a very massive PR campaign which is of course very costly in the short term or brute time as in 7-10+ years to let old memories die and in that time they can't afford to drop the quality ball too much if at all otherwise they're back at square one.

Here's my two cents.

Please don't dwell on my User ID "handle" - or assume anything because of it - - it does not mean I can't be objective! :-)

I have driven a 2010 Insight for over 2,000 miles and have not experienced the vibration you describe. My mirror is quite steady, thank you.

I would have the car looked at by the dealer as I know of no one who has noticed that serious an issue - I think that it would have come up on one of the Insight Forums I read. I find the ride to be quite smooth.

@hondaacura4: these "Today's crappy cars are just a stopgap measure until we bring you the bright car of tomorrow" is the thinking that got GM exactly where it is today. Honda used to be known for doing the opposite, even as recent as the prior-gen Accord to which they practically had perfected the platform.

Other manufacturers (namely, Toyota) have declined in quality over the past 5 years, but plenty more are stepping up their game. Honda got lazy.

@Hybris: I never suggested that Ito's plan was 100% perfect as I don't agree with all of his proposals. However, Honda has always been a forward thinking company and these recent plans are no different. I still don't think there products are "garbage" as many put it as they are still very competitive and sell well.

@Mikeolan: I would NEVER compare Honda to GM as their corporate culture and overall philosophies are no where near reflections of each other. GM is where it is today because of overly poor management, ridiculous UAW contracts, wasteful spending and exhausting it's resources purchasing other failing companies when they themselves were gasping for air. Fortunately, Honda doesn't have those issues on its back.

Honda got lazy..... I agree with that to an extent at least in some models like the current Accord sedan and new Pilot as they just don't possess the same level of urgency and stand out characteristics that made the last generations so competent, popular and successful. The last generation Accord was an overachiever by comparison.

On the contrary, the 06+ Civic, Odyssey, Fit we're instant successes as well as the CR-V. These vehicles prove that Honda still has plenty of engineering talent left in reserve.

I have to agree with hondacura4 on a lot of points. All engineering fields are going through a very turbulent period right now where conventional wisdom is being forced out the window to make room for ideas that are more responsible. I have been in industry for over ten years now and have never seen the kind of change that has started over the last year or two. The simple truth is that ten years from now the companies thriving will be the ones that took the initiative to invest in the future rather than settle for the present.

I agree that Hondas are not the fun, unique cars that they used to be, but they have weathered this economic storm better than most and you can still see that promise of fun in their concept cars. Besides, their current lineup is generally rock solid with every model right near the top of its segment (unfortunately this is hardly the case for Acura). It is smart to gamble on the future when you are as small as Honda because they really can't afford not to. Unlike Toyota and Mercedes-Benz, Honda doesn't have the finances to beef up its current lineup with exotic tech while simultaneously spending billions in R&D on hydrogen, electric, diesel, and hybrid powertrains. This is a risk they have to take.

I'm not even a Honda fan. I've never owned one and honestly never had the slightest desire to, but I respect their decision here. Whether or not people can see it or not, this decision was made by the engineers NOT the business folks.

I am disappointed on two main points with this car. The ride has been widely criticized and I find the dash layout to be something akin to that which a 7 year old would draw. A minor niggle could be the back seat space, but by this point you are already at the Toyota dealer getting ready to ante up a few grand more for a 3rd gen Prius. Sneaking a Civic hyrid drivetrain into an underdeveloped Prius-looking wannabe is not the way to endear yourself to the general public. Come on, Honda! What happened to your genuine individuality?

This cannot be true, it has to be some sort of overreaction. Really the rearview mirror was vibrating that much and about to fall on your lap? Really? I dont doubt you, just find it hard to believe.