2010 Honda Insight EX: Losing the Sales Race

"Prius" has become synonymous with "hybrid." Trying to shoehorn into that is a bit difficult.

I'm with Stephen. The Insight is a deviation from Honda's main skill set. It's almost like they built it half-heartedly, like a chore or something they felt they were expected to do. It even looks like a clone, for cryin' out loud.

I'm surprised that the Platypus is not one of the long term vehicles. I was hoping someone would crap all over it on the blog. Before on my list of Do-not-date, I had hair dressers, circus freaks, transvestites, art and philosophy majors, dentists, ex-cons and weight lifters. Now I added Platypus owners to the list. Really really debating if I should include people who own the Insight...

"It's practical, hyper-efficient and affordable, which is pretty much what you can say about the Honda Fit, the Honda Civic, the Honda Accord and everything else with a Honda badge. "

He sound seal objective there. The Ridgeline, Odyssey, Accord, Element and Pilot are "hyper efficient"? Give me a break. If we put down the Honda Kool Aid for ten seconds we realize that really only the Civic and Fit are efficient for their respective classes. The Accord I-4 is as efficient as a Sebring- aka worst in class.

The Insight is a mediocre car that happens to be a hybrid. Honda set out to make the cheapest full hybrid they could, not the best. The sales numbers reflect that.Once companies feel they can coast on their reputations you get vehicles like this. Toyota has a few in its lineup as well but they did get the Prius right.

When you consider the fact that the Insight is a brand new vehicle working with essentially no history (not many people even know about the original), its no wonder sales are low. The Prius has constantly been around and has been a symbol of 'green' during the last 10 years. Its hyped by celebrities and the media.

I am guessing many people don't even know the Insight exists.

If Honda was seriously expecting to match sales with the Prius, then they were set up for defeat from the start. They may have also misunderstood the market for hybrid vehicles. I don't think people looking for a 'cheap' car are also looking green. Most of the cheap cars out there are pretty fuel efficient. What the Prius offers is a larger, more practical package that, while more expensive, also happens to be fuel efficient. I don't think there was anyone cross shopping a Rio5 and a Prius and lamenting that they cannot afford the latter.

I hope Honda gives it some time. The car has only been on sale for a few months, and already has 1/10th of the Prius sales - this is with the Prius having a new generation launch and lots of advertising. If Honda sticks it out and improves on their formula, I would expect some more sales. I don't know what their goal is, but realistically if they can sell 50% of what Toyota sells, they should be happy.

@1487:

Your point about the Ridgeline, Element, and Pilot is correct. I'll also give you the Odyssey and the V6 Accord, but only because I don't know or care enough about those particular vehicles to respond. Your assessment of the Civic and Fit as "efficient for their respective classes" is accurate too--the Civic and Corolla outstep any other compacts in both EPA and real-world fuel efficiency, and the Fit manages to combine subcompact fuel economy with unusual versatility and surprisingly spirited handling.

You are simply incorrect about the four-cylinder Accord, though.

Consumer Reports got 26 mpg combined with their LX-P five-speed. Their test environment--NYC and suburban Connecticut, is not a particularly forgiving one when it comes to fuel economy. Car and Driver, which never agrees with CR on anything, and tends to beat the hell out of their test cars, achieved largely comparable results. The key here is the manual transmission--which is actually found on a fair number of Accords, while its availability on other midsize vehicles (Altima, Camry, Sonata in particular) is largely theoretical. The Accord with an automatic is on par with the others--not "worst in class" but nothing special either.

Oh, and I can promise you that the Sebring's fuel economy is FAR from being its biggest problem.

It's such an obvious clone, if they had tried something totally different they might have more luck. Why buy some Prius knockoff when you can buy the real thing for a little more coin.

Honda could've done better admittedly. They certainly have the cheaper hybrid comparable to a Prius but not the better hybrid. At least they have something out of the gate until they start production on the hybrid CR-Z, which should give them some sales momentum.

If they were going for "cheapest hybrid out there," they might have done better just to go ahead and offer the JDM Fit Hybrid here. But hybrids fail to make a case on purely microeconomic grounds--you just don't gain enough mpg over a comparable conventional small car to make back the initial cost. And at the bottom end of the market, as dougtheeng pointed out above, that's all that matters.

That makes sense. People who are buying the platypuses (or is it platypi) are not really buying them on a value proposition although they love to talk about how much they save on fuel costs. I wonder if Honda priced this higher, it would have pushed this thing into the right market segment.

That's because the Prius isn't exactly a good car, and the Insight is even worse. People don't want crappy cars, what's so hard about that?

I think the biggest factor is that the Insight doesn't actually drive a like a typical hybrid. I think a lot of people get a big kick (all other things aside) out of being able to creep along on electric power alone. Look at all the big selling hybrids. While nothing compares to the Prius, almost all of the other hybrids that toyota sells are big sellers. I think that might be because they all can run on electric or electric & gas. The Escape hybrid also operates the same way and is a pretty decent seller. Hondas have never been able to do this. Their "IMA" system just isn't cutting it. throwing it in a wierd teardrop car isn't going to help. They should have learned from GM's mistake. The malibu hybrid/Aura hybrid/ Vue hybrid combo were all cheap hybrids but their hybrid systems weren't capable of running on electric juice alone, and nobody took.

I actually kind of agree with 1487 a little bit in the fact that I think Honda is thinking they can just make anything they want and people will snatch it up because they buy an "H" badge that happens to have a vehicle attached to it. I think the Ridgeline was a good example of this and all their attempts at a hybrid that have never been much of a success. They need to jump on the hybrid band wagon and make a true parallel hybrid to be successful. Especially since Toyota is the one crushing it on Hybrid sales. People who buy Honda's and Toyota's rarely think twice about jumping to the other brand.

The press was really excited about the Insight because it was a "Honda" and "sporty" while delivering 90% of the Prius' green factor. Once again, the press has no clue what the actual consumer wants or needs. The Prius has a zero fun-to-drive factor and yet people don't seem to mind. No one is clamouring for a sporty hybrid. You buy a hybrid for the image and to save gas (even if it costs more up front), period. Didn't Honda learn its lesson with the Accord hybrid? Sporty and Green mix about as well as oil and water.

Actually, "sporty" and "green" aren't mutually exclusive. The Lotus Elise gets terrific fuel economy. But "hybrid" and "sporty" may well be incompatible. I'll take a lightweight, sporty conventional powertrain anyday.

PS- every max mileage vehicle will resemble the Prius because that is the most aerodynamic shape. Since the Prius was first, buyers will see similarly styled vehicles as nothing but knock-offs to the original King of Green. This puts each sucessive vehicle at a marked disadvantage in terms of establishing itself as a Prius alternative. Even the Volt has the same overall basic shape (it's really all about the long large radius roof and high tail).

"The Prius has constantly been around and has been a symbol of 'green' during the last 10 years. "

The Prius has only been known about by the masses for the last 3 years or so. Before gas went up over $3 a gallon after Katrina most Americans knew or cared little about the Prius.

The Insight launched with a huge ad campaign and sales have not responded. I agree that its brand name isn't as known as the Prius' but I disagree that no one knows about this car. They know about it but don't want it and the reasons are apparent: The Prius is better and has is $2.40/gallon.

Stephan- I thought it was understood we were speaking in terms of hybrids. Plus, I don't think any buyer of $50k go-cart is worried about being green or getting good fuel economy.

"Consumer Reports got 26 mpg combined with their LX-P five-speed. Their test environment--NYC and suburban Connecticut, is not a particularly forgiving one when it comes to fuel economy. Car and Driver, which never agrees with CR on anything, and tends to beat the hell out of their test cars, achieved largely comparable results."

Per the EPA mileage is 21/30, same as Sebring. Worst in class. People are not buying Accords with manuals so using that car for comparison to autos in other cars is pointless. Most Accords are autos by a LARGE margin and the auto gets 21/30. In testing I've seen the auto I-4 Accord averages 22-23mpg in mixed driving.

I never said the Sebring didn't have other issues, I said it has worst in class mileage just like the Accord. Since my contention was with the statement about "hyper efficiency" of Honda models I thought I would point that out. Jordan's Honda press release like statement explains why Honda gets a free pass from the US auto media.

"While nothing compares to the Prius, almost all of the other hybrids that toyota sells are big sellers."

Aside from the Prius the other Toyota hybrids sell in very modest numbers. Prius is probably 70%+ of their monthly hybrid totals. The Lexus hybrids really don't sell.

"While nothing compares to the Prius, almost all of the other hybrids that toyota sells are big sellers."

exactly. Although I truly question how sporty the Insight is with its slow acceleration, mediocre cornering and braking and wimpy tires. Its sporty compared to an Avalon or Tahoe maybe. The fact that its a hybrid designed to maximize mileage with a weak engine and CVT pretty much means its not sporty. The other factor no one has talked about is that terrible interior. Its even worse than that of the Fit. I can't wait to sit in one at the next auto show but it looks horribly cheap.

"Aside from the Prius the other Toyota hybrids sell in very modest numbers. Prius is probably 70%+ of their monthly hybrid totals. The Lexus hybrids really don't sell."

While I agree that none of the other hybrids sell as well as the prius, there are a lot of takers of Toyota's "normal" cars that have a true parallel hybrid. I see lots of Camry/Highlander/RX hybrids around here even though as a percentage of the total sales of those it's probably pretty slim, it's enough to keep making them.

My point is mainly that Toyota spent the money to invest in their hybrid system which is pretty smooth and works for maximizing mileage in a city situation (by running on electricity at low speeds) and then figured out a way to strap it to engines they already produced and make a unique car for all the "greenies" but then throw that powertrain into their everyday cars so that the smaller number of people that want to be "green" don't have to announce it to the world and buy their same ole camry or whatever. It seems like Honda just said "hey instead of going through all that trouble, lets instead just stick this electric motor on the end of the gas motor and hook it to a car battery and toss it in a tin can that looks like a prius... oh and we will throw some video game graphics in the dash. We don't care if it's smooth or actually run on electric alone, people will buy it because there is an H on the hood!" Now it's coming back to bite them.

Honda's system is less sophisticated and less efficient and they didn't understand hybrid buyers when they designed the car. If hybrid buyers only cared about saving money they would all buy used Corollas instead. They want the best technology and efficiency available. The other thing Honda missed was the starting price for the Prius, they thought it was going to be quite a bit more than the Insight and it wasn't.

"The Prius has only been known about by the masses for the last 3 years or so. Before gas went up over $3 a gallon after Katrina most Americans knew or cared little about the Prius."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius#Sales

Year Prius Sales (USA)

2000: 5,600
2001: 15,600
2002: 20,100
2003: 24,600
2004: 54,000
2005: 107,900
2006: 107,000
2007: 181,200
2008: 158,900
2009: 90,000 (to August)

So, I'd say the public has known about the Prius for much of its existence. Granted, there was a huge jump in 2005 but the numbers before then aren't as small as one might thing (2000 excepted, of course).

The Camry sells more Hybrid models from what I read.

"every max mileage vehicle will resemble the Prius because that is the most aerodynamic shape"

Chavis10 has a point about the shape it just means that your going to have NASCAR syndrome set in as people look past the body and powertrain in that respect Honda can do better if they put a high quality interior in the insight and that hold to their traditional high standards.

Maybe bringing back the "You meet the nicest people on a Honda." line would help counter the Prius's heavy celebrity endorsements.

Gas prices aren't that conducive for introducing a hybrid right now. Give it time.

I pray every night so that very thing will NOT come to pass.

The Insight is not selling for many reasons, including a lack of coherent, consistent marketing, an abundance of inexplicable poor press and low fuel prices. Not to mention the "cash for clunkers" wave has subsided, the weak economy, etc.

Honda has received a lot of poor press lately, and the Insight gets most of it. Yet the same reviewers will give hatchback commuter cars with nearly identical specs/performance (or in some cases lesser specs/performance) good or rave reviews. Examples include the Fit, Scion XD, Kia Soul, Nissan Cube, etc.) Reviewers seem obsessed with telling us how many ways the Insight isn't a Prius, and in most cases the car isn't actually "reviewed" at all. If the Prius name stands for one thing, it is of a "good hybrid." If the Insight isn't a Prius, it must be bad one...

The USATODAY (in collaboration with Karl Brauer of Edmunds) added a bit of objectivity to this subject, in their "5 most under-appreciated new cars" piece found here:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2009/10/68501095/1

So they all look like that because that's aerodynamic?

Now I know why turds fling far.

@mheikka: not even one of the vehicles you listed is as slow as the Insight, and all of them are significantly less expensive as well.

"So, I'd say the public has known about the Prius for much of its existence. Granted, there was a huge jump in 2005 but the numbers before then aren't as small as one might thing (2000 excepted, of course)."

Sales spiked in 2005 which is what I was referring to. 54k is not a substantial amount of sales for an affordable car like the Prius.

oh yeah, Honda's own Fit and Civic Hybrid are 2 other reasons this car doesn't sell. Honda doesn't seem to get that its competing with itself to snag the finite number of loyal Honda buyers. The Fit is cheaper and better handling and more useful. The civic hybrid is better looking and slightly more efficient.

I wanna know since the topic of this post is -losing the sales race-how many insights have been sold so far and what are the numbers honda expects to sale??

"Sales spiked in 2005 which is what I was referring to. 54k is not a substantial amount of sales for an affordable car like the Prius."

It is a lot of sales for a niche vehicle that has no power, drives terribly and has a garbage interior.