Let's get down to brass tacks: The persistent navigation system problems we are having with our 2009 Mazda 6 have gone on far too long.
First reported back in April, we waited months for back-ordered parts to come in to fix a broken display screen. A new head unit was needed to remedy a mysterious red stripe that obscured the right-hand side of the display.
The parts eventually came in and we finally got the screen repaired in late August. But a short time later the "you are here" cursor started to wander -- first to Mexico, then out into the Pacific Ocean. At least one reader suspected the problem was a GPS error related to improper installation of the new part.
Circumstances prevented us from bringing it in straight away, but when we finally did we brought our Mazda 6 to a different dealer, in hopes of better service. They told us that all the system needed was a recalibration. "That will do it", they said. The work was done and the car was promptly returned to us the next day.
After a while it became obvious that this rush job was woefully insufficient. Our Mazda's nav system needs much more than a mere recalibration.
They should have have been able to tell that the GPS signal is not reaching the navi system, as evidenced by the lack of clock reading in the yellow circle, above. Without it's main guiding signal, the system resorts to groping its way along 100% of the time in "dead-reckoning" mode, a back-up mode intended to fill-in the momentary satellite blackouts that occur when the car is driven under trees or through tunnels.
DR uses steering, speed and acceleration sensors to approximate your direction changes, and this data is overlaid on top of the map. It doesn't know exactly where you are, but it can make a good guess if your starting point (and heading) was properly calibrated. It also makes the assumption that you're driving along roads that it knows.
This works fine for short hops in suburban areas. But if you drive miles and miles at a time in this mode, the errors pile up and the system loses it's way. Left unchecked, North becomes South and you wind up south of the border or far out to sea. It's no coincidence that the editors who noticed the biggest errors were the ones who went out on extended trips.
This weekend I drove to San Diego, 90 miles south. But I didn't notice that the cursor had started to diverge until I appraoched a meal stop in Irvine, about 1/3 of the way there. In the photo above the nav system thinks the car is on Von Karman Avenue. But I've put the manual cross-hairs on my true location on Jamboree Road, about 1/2 mile east. It's not a big offset at this point, but it played heck with my attempt to locate food.
After eating and restarting the car and zig-zagging out of the El Pollo Loco Parking lot, the system inexplicably lost track of north and south. Pretty soon it had me tracking north-northeast (as indicated by the the red triangle above) when I was in fact near the yellow circle, headed more or less south-southeast toward San Diego. At one point the difference between my actual and indicated positions grew to some 170 miles.
So much for the dealer's recalibration theory.
It turns out the recalibration procedure is in the manual, and it's pretty simple. I reset my position and direction this morning before heading to work. No dealer visit required.
As I suspected, this recalibration was just as ineffective. Within 30 miles the system started to develop a large-enough error that it could no longer estimate which of the closely-spaced roads it was travelling along. Here I'm driving on the 405 freeway, but the cursor is on a parallel path in a nearby Inglewood neighborhood.
Why can't the dealer service department recognize the obvious? No time signal means no GPS signal. And, more basic than that, a system with a functional GPS input knows that it's not miles away in another country or bobbing in the water like a buoy at sea. Errors like this should never develop where satellites are visible overhead.
C'mon service technicians and service writers, use your heads. We're bringing this thing back in once more to have the GPS signal restored, so you're getting another chance.
Dan Edmunds, Director of Vehicle Testing
altimadude00 says:
11:11 PM, 10/19/09
At this point, emotions would take over, and I would trade the car in for something else....but not before ripping out the nav system and using it for my next skeet shooting target.
It's too bad that one foul electronic bit is taking so much attention from the reporting of the rest of the car. I would say, turn the nav off, and report on the rest of the car.
jstandefer says:
11:13 PM, 10/19/09
Ha! When you were in Irvine (first photo), here's what you should have done:
1) Continue heading northeast 1/8 mile.
2) Turn right on Barranca Pkwy
3) Follow Barranca Pkwy for 5.2 miles
You would have run head-on into the Mazda North American Operations headquarters building. You should have made a visit, told them who you are, and gotten the problem solved once and for all. Or probably not... Mazda seems to really enjoy sitting at or near the bottom of the quality charts for some reason. Then again, being down there is probably easier to talk to their marketing department, since they reside at the bottom of the barrel as well.
super_ongoy says:
11:47 PM, 10/19/09
This is just unacceptable! This is kind of crap that spits out Talibuns. If the nav shows me to drive into the Pacific, I would just do it and sue Mazda's pants off just to show them I can play the game.
I had one really really bad experience with a BMW dealer. I wrote to their corporate office both in the US and in Germany. The corporate guys really took the dealer to the toolshed. After that even services that would usually take 2-3 days gets done within the day. I am sure the guys at the dealership take turn peeing in my gas tank and curse the day I was born but sometime you just gotta show them you will not take their crap with mouth open.
zoomzoom22 says:
12:42 AM, 10/20/09
This kind of makes me sad, because it is very disappointing. The nav in my 06 Mazda6 has had no issues whatsoever, and I understand your frustration, Dan. I'd be livid.
I still really want another 6, though, because this appears to be a very isolated incident...I haven't heard of any similar problems for others, and the dealership obviously wasn't aware of this issue, either. Maybe this issue is only with your particular car and that is why they didn't know how to fix it??
zoomzoom22 says:
12:47 AM, 10/20/09
On a side note, I agree with altimadude. I want to stop hearing about the nav and start hearing about other aspects of this car. Built in navigation systems are stupid anyways because they are expensive and become outdated within a couple years. Have you guys even track tested it yet? How does the stereo sound? Handling? Comparisons to the old 6? Things you liked about the old 6? Headlight shots, headlight distance & effectiveness, handy features, climate control operation, etc, etc.....you know, the things you post about every other car.
There's reasons why the 6 keeps winning your comparison tests; let's hear about them.
sellaturcica says:
04:07 AM, 10/20/09
I don't think mechanics who end up at a car dealer are the top of the pyramid- unfortunately logical problem solving, while extremely important, is not something they're necessarily good at. A rudimentary drive would have shown that your GPS signal wasn't being picked up. How hard is that? Not very. But for people who don't care and are one step up from a McJob, it is difficult.
bodyblue says:
05:07 AM, 10/20/09
Just because a car wins a comparison test in a magazine does not mean it is a reliable car. These long term tests are the REAL comparison. I think nav systems are a huge waste of money. Get a Garmin if you get lost a lot.....Oh and keep telling us about EVERYTHING...not just the good stuff. Too bad if some dont want to hear about the nav screw ups. Maybe this is one reason that Kia has passed Mazda in sales? Boring and reliable beats Zoom Zoom every day if Zoom Zoom cant get where you want to go.
barich1 says:
06:16 AM, 10/20/09
"Boring and reliable beats Zoom Zoom every day if Zoom Zoom cant get where you want to go."
It can get you where you want to go, but only if you already know how to get there. The nav is the only actual problem they've had with the car. Compared to the Nissans, for example, it's been a much more reliable car.
bodyblue says:
06:24 AM, 10/20/09
Agreed, but little irritating problems can make or break a car for me. I like Mazdas...enough to be considering a 5 for my wife. That is why I like the IL blog so much....I would not spend the extra money for a nav system so this problem really wont affect me. I wish they would get a Kia Forte.....they will be big sellers and I want to know how they stack up with others in their class.
super_ongoy says:
06:39 AM, 10/20/09
I mean what the hell is Zoom Zoom anyway? If I am sitting in the marketing meeting and someone suggest we use Zoom Zoom or Broom Broom or even cha cha cha as our corporate catch phrase or whatever, I would walk over to that person and smack him with a portfolio, backhanded (cause you can hit harder that way).
jaeger1 says:
07:00 AM, 10/20/09
This is WAY past lame on Mazda's part.
nealibob says:
07:06 AM, 10/20/09
Can you lemon it for this?
civilag says:
08:38 AM, 10/20/09
LOL @ super_ongoy ^
mercedesfan says:
10:02 AM, 10/20/09
The 6 is starting to remind me of my old A6 (I wonder if it has something to do with the nomenclature?). The car was mechanically sound for the 4 years I owned it, but I would be surprised if it went a month without an electrical headache near the end. It didn't have a nav system, but the unending issues I had with the power passenger seat were far more irritating.
I still think the Mazda sounds like a great car overall (which is more than I am willing to say about my old Audi), but they have got to get more reliable suppliers if they want to play in the big leagues.
roadburner says:
10:27 AM, 10/20/09
At 50,000 miles and a bit over two years my Mazdaspeed 3 hasn't suffered from any electrical problems. Instead, I've had to deal with weak shocks, a smoking turbo, and a few other engine issues. I usually keep my cars for five years or more-14 in the case of my beloved 3er-but I seriously doubt that I'll keep the MS3 for another six months. A more exotic type of M car is calling me...:D
cr_driver says:
11:19 AM, 10/20/09
Ok so lets say the nav system fails and you go the dealership and they solve it at once.
Big deal isnt? U just say the car is very good and happy drive away.
But when u have to order parts, and wait many months, and its fails again, and they cannot remedy the problem, and once again you are dealing with the unsolved issue, then u start taking it against the car, but the main culprit here goes to the dealership, simple as that.
We´ll see how the dodge ram nav saga continues for a bit of comparison.
cx7lover says:
11:37 AM, 10/20/09
Denso is the supplier, one of the major suppliers. This is all dealer incompetence. Don't check off the Nav, it's not even worth the extra money.
gdmstrb says:
12:38 PM, 10/20/09
"This is all dealer incompetence."
And that's not a shocker when it comes to Mazda's dealer network. Having owned an RX-8 and 6, we swore off their product a long time ago.....not because they were unreliable, but because their dealer network was god awful.
I remember getting into a back and forth argument with my service advisor and manager because they pulled the Bose head unit out (due to it having issues) and replaced it with the base unit. After calling to their attention what they did, they swore up and down that I was attempting to con them and would not replace the head unit with the proper one. It was a big mess, but the list goes on.
It's a shame too, because Mazda makes very good automobiles.
ocramida says:
01:11 PM, 10/20/09
Being an avid Mazda fan I've owned Mazdas for the past 16 years. Cars are great (I currently own a 5 (60K) and an MS3 (20K), and both have been ultra reliable), dealers I had/have are also exceptional. In this case though I would be calling Mazda Corporate and complain. This is a prime example of poor problem-solving on the techs part that has resulted in poor cs. It's probably a bad GPS receiver.
Call Mazda.
On a side note I find it funny that some of you would trade in the car becasue of this gaffe. It's a an issue and all cars have issues. The real issue here is dealer service. Just call Mazda and report the dealer.
roadburner says:
02:40 PM, 10/20/09
I am lucky in that my dealer(Kings Mazda, Cincinnati) has a first-rate sales staff as well as an excellent service department. The only problem is that I live 120 miles away. My local Louisville dealers(Neil Huffman Mazda and Oxmoor Mazda) both win the incompetence trifecta; their sales, service, and parts departments ALL suck.
Hard.
pshanth says:
11:12 AM, 10/23/09
I'm glad my parents got their Mazda 6 (red, i Touring, black leather/cloth inserts interior, blind-spot monitoring, Bluetooth, etc.) WITHOUT sat-nav.
That said, their standalone system seems to have died from heat stresses; I thought those things were meant to handle those stresses in a car...