2009 VW Jetta TDI: Open Thread

Modern high-efficiency diesels are terrific for US conditions. I'd like to see a full line of diesels from VW, Ford, and other manufacturers ASAP.

I bought my TDI in December and have 16,000 miles on it. It's been the perfect car for me - fun to drive, great fuel economy and plenty of space for 4 adults. Plus the trunk is huge.

My previous car was a 2000 BMW 3-series so I've stepped down a bit in performance and handling but the diesel has plenty of torque and I've never yearned for (or needed) more pick-up.

I briefly considered a hybrid but the price premium was high & the performance was low. Plus the batteries and associated pollution are hard to justify when you have a good alternative like a diesel.

I now consistently average 42 MPG on a tank of gas with 600+ mile range. I have the DSG transmission which is smooth as silk. The temperature sensor failed and has been replaced. So, I assume I'll be part of the latest DSG recall but I have had absolutely no other problems and feel confident that VW will stand by this car and the transmission.

My dealer's sales and service teams are great - we just bought a 2nd Jetta (a GLI) under the cash-for-clunkers program. Despite lacking the clean diesel, it is a blast to drive, averaging 30 MPG versus the 15MPG Jeep we used to have.

Bottom line for me: the clean diesel wins hands down. I just wish there were more makes/models in the USA.

I prefer diesels over hybrids any day of the week. The torque rich engines that barely clatter are really appealing. On top of that, the fuel economy is surprising for the amount of performance that can be had. I'm specifically looking at the 2.0 TDI engine that VW\Audi has in Europe. I drove one a few years ago for a week in Germany. It was quiet and had a decent amount of performance. Heck, it topped out at 147 mph on the autobahn and had decent acceleration from a stop.

Diesels have gotten far cleaner in the past decade and I wouldn't be surprised if there were more and more models from Europe offered with a diesel engine in the near future. The fuel economy, not to mention performance, of a decently sized diesel in a hatchback would be astounding.

Diesels FTW, Hybrids FTL!

Definitely would prefer a diesel to a hybrid. Simpler powertrain, very good fuel economy, ability to run slightly more alternative (VO) fuels in a pinch.

But would I want *this* diesel? I don't know. Every time I screw up my courage and start thinking that a VW or Audi TDI would make a great car to own, I go and read something like this, and quickly backtrack....

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/21/vw-dsg-transmission-problem-leads-to-recall/

I'd definitely buy a BMW or MB diesel (if I could afford it.) But given the problematic reliability history, and (word of mouth tells me,) consistently poor dealer service, I'm inclined to give the VW/Audi TDIs a pass.

Could you go through the radio head unit operation? I'm curious with all of that screen real estate how it works for the iPod hookup or Sirius radio.

That said having had the pleasure of driving a Prius, Insight, and TDI back to back there's absolutely no comparison, the TDI is a far better car.

Plus honestly, who do you think is going to make a better car, the company that owns Porsche, or a company that makes a bunch of crappy lawnmowers!??

Do you actually think the Mark V is an improvement over the Mark IV?

Is there anyway you could extend the trial on the Jetta? So far it's been reliable and I'd like to see if it will get worse over time because there is such a stigma around VW.

"The fuel economy, not to mention performance, of a decently sized diesel in a hatchback would be astounding."

arm51 - VW makes a GTD for Europe (Basically a GTI with the 2.0L TDI) that would be absolutely yummy to have. I've been so far impressed by the current 2.0L TDI in my folks' SportWagen - it pulls hard from a stop and returns 500+ miles per tank, all while being as smooth as the 2.0L FSI in my GTI.

I'll second that. Lots of us would be very interested in the TDI--it's the "VW" part of the equation that gives us pause. Any chance you could hang on and do a REALLY long-term test, say, 100k miles?

Whats the towing capacity is it anything unusual being a diesel?

Having driven both there is no comparison...the Jetta is a great drive and the Prius is a transport pod (riding the subway is more vehicular excitement)...I'm still in disbelief that anyone could buy a Prius, Insight, et al over a Jetta TDI...The value of the Jetta is excellent as well...My son is just awaiting the arrival of the Golf TDI in a couple months and will be prepping his 2006 Rabbit 2.5 for trade...

147 MPH?
I can believe 127 - 130, based on this:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q3/2009_2010_volkswagen_golf_vi_2.0_tdi_diesel-first_drive_review

and others..but 147?

Yikes....

It's on my short list for my next car, nuff said. I just wish it was bigger (Passat Sportwagon please, VW!).

Regarding hybrids vs diesels, my next car is going to be a diesel (unless it's a Flex). Diesel Flex would be ideal. :)

@tryan

I'm still not sold on Hydrogen Fuel Cells. The idea of having a highly pressurized Hydrogen Tank on a car seems like an accident waiting to happen. Instead of a car wreck, you'd blow up the entire block.

Maybe I'm completely misinformed on hydrogen fuel cell technology, but the FCX Clarity does have a hydrogen tank on board and we all know that Hydrogen is one of the most unstable & combustable elements on the planet.

Back to the Jetta diesel vs hybrid debate:

A year ago it never occurred to me that diesel cars could be fun to drive so I assumed that if you drove mostly on the highways go with a diesel and if you're mostly in the city you're better off with a hybrid (Prius).

After I drove my mom's 09' Jetta TDI I was surprised at how much fun I had driving this little commuter car. The Prius and Camry Hybrid are boring drones compared to the TDI.

If I was on the market for a commuter a TDI would be at the top of my list, though I'd opt for a Tiguan or GTI version if they become available in the states. The Fusion Hybrid would also be on my list, but I haven't driven one to see how it compares.

@rayainsw - It was in an Audi A3 five door hatch and the speedometer roughly listed 235 kph when topped out, which is roughly 147 mph. I don't know if the speedometer was off or what, but that was what it read. However the Mercedes-Benz B-class diesel I rented last year in Germany was quite a bit slower.

I think the Jetta TDI is a way better car then the latest 2010 Prius. The problem is pricing. I was trying to purchase a nice TDI Sportwagen... but the dealers all had them marked up due to demand. Without Nav or sunroof or rear airbags, it came to $29k! Toyota dealers- which physically had marked up the Prius' for those cash for clunkers impulse buyers, where actually going off dealer lots (in the Bay area) for $1000 under MSRP. The wagen has more room then the Prius, but is it worth $4000 more? Initially upset having to get a Prius, the extra cash in my pocket and averaging 48 mpg for the first 1500 miles with the A/C on.. has been rather nice... boring yes, but nice.

If I was buying a car based on fuel economy, the Jetta TDI (is there any others in the same price range?) would probably be it. Diesel technology is more proven than Hybrid (albeit diesel's now need more tech these days to meet emissions requirements). Given I live in Chicago, I wouldn't buy either unless I test drove it on 10 degree day in January (after digging the car out of the snow drift). I'm sure cars are better, but I grew up on a farm and the diesel tractor didn't want to start unless the block heater was plugged in while I ate breakfast.

@DCuerpoJr

Having a pressurized tank of anything onboard can spell bad news if punctured or damaged, but yes, Hydrogen is extremely volatile. Although, the FCX has had no reported incidents like that, and I'd be willing to bet that Honda executed due-diligence in the form of extensive safety testing at the prodding of their lawyers - prior to releasing it for limited leasing.

Any onboard storage of Hydrogen would require a substantial safety shell to protect it, but that's a minor barrier that is easily overcome. Although, the mind boggles at the prospect of really being able to replicate those on-screen movie explosions...

I will note that current LCO batteries (your typical Lithium-Ion cell) are extremely susceptible to thermal runaway, which could lead to a disasterous end for the driver and any passengers in the vehicle using it.

How about a complete list of the differences between the Jetta TDI Cup race car and the street Jetta TDI?

I know I saw Audi R8 front brake calipers on the TDI Cup car at the LA Auto Show last November.

mtb1ke: Where have you seen the markups? I was at the local NY VW dealer and they had a new 2009 TDI sportwagen manual on the lot, with no dealer markups.

I have only driven 1 hybrid; the Honda Civic and decided to buy the 2009 TDI sedan with DSG. I love it! I traded a 2007 BMW 328XI sedan and prefer the TDI. The BMW had more sports car like handling, but the ride was harsh over potholes and I actually prefer the feel of the TDI steering and the way it tracks in normal driving. The economy is fantastic and although it does not have the power of the BMW it still moves along beautifully and I love that torque. Prior to the BMW I owned a Mercedes C Class, and two Audis (an A4 and an S4) and prefer the overall handling/ride /steering of the TDI to all of them.

I have about 8300 miles on my TDI and the only problem I have had is a check engine light coming on due to a bit of low pressure with the turbo. The low pressure "problem" disappeared and it has been fine since. I do get an occasional harsh shift in manual mode and am part of the recall, although I have not had a false neutral.

I think it is amazing that VW can make a car at this price with the overall feel of much more expensive cars. If I were forced to choose from all the cars I have owned I would pick the TDI.

@tryan

I believe there are only 200 FCX Clarities on the road in California and I don't believe any of them have been reported in a car accident. I'm sure Honda created extensive safety features to protect the Hydrogen tank. However, no car can perfectly withstand a 50mph - 70mph rear end (where the hydrogen tank is located) collision with another midsize vehicle, let alone a full size suv/truck. If 50,000 of these types of vehicles were on the road, it would definitely increase the probability of such an accident.

I don't see this as a minor barrier that can be easily overcome. In fact, transport vehicles are required by law to display HAZMAT warning lables if transporting flammable or explosive materials such as Hydrogen or Propane. The only reason that Honda, GM and Mercedes don't have to post such labels on their Fuel Cell Vehicles is because they were designed for consumber use. However, one major accident could change all that and I doubt many people are willing to purchase a vehicle that is required to display a HAZMAT label at all times.

You're right about LCO/Li batteries as well. A few years ago I had a notebook battery burst into flames due to a faulty charger. Keep in mind that the FCX Clarity and the Equinox both have large capacity LCO/Li batteries to store excess electricty.

carguy622- TDI's were marked up in the SF Bay Area. I was looking during the cash for clunkers, and the dealers said they were in high demand.. plus the Mexican plant was forced to shut down, since the plant in Germany that makes the engines was on holiday. AND they were waiting for the new 2010 (revised front in and interior). Each dealer had at most 1 on the lot. They would try and steer me to the Tijuan. 28k was the typical price, fully loaded was closer to 32. I got my Prius with Nav. for 24,500. But I dream of the day when I can own a clean diesel.

I'm *still* looking for someone to provide a number for passing acceleration for this car. Car and driver have 6 seconds for the 50-70 test, but I seriously doubt their numbers, especially when if you do the math on their total acceleration run it comes out to 5.1 seconds.

Source:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q1/2009_volkswagen_jetta_tdi-short_take_road_test

@hpcarter

Be aware that most stations in IL sell biodiesel with 11%+ bio (because there is no sales tax on B20, blends with greater than 10% bio content). The common-rail TDI is not supposed to be operated with more than 5% bio. Consequences are that you should change your oil twice as often and there may be an impact on the DPF (diesel particulate filter).

Here in NC, I've had an '09 Sportwagen TDI for eleven months. It just rolled over 41K and I haven't had a single hiccup out of the engine. Three of the four door locks have failed :-( which I think is rediculous but other than that the car has been trouble-free.

-darren

I drove sevral hybrids as well as the TDI and chose the TDI. As some have mentioned in this thread I am not sold on the hybrid battery technology and think that there has been some intentional white-washing of the environmental impact that the manufacturing, replacement and disposal of the batteries actually has.

It is all a matter of preference, for me driving a hybrid was like driving a golf cart. I also found the engine kicking in at odd times was hard for me to get used to. It was also interesting that several times when I pulled out of a parking space pedestrians did not pay attention because the hybrid made no noise.

Price was also a factor, the TDI was considerably less than a similarly equipped Ford, Toyota, or Nissan hybrid. Plus the low-end torque the Jetta has is amazing. It is just plain fun to drive!

I am wondering who these people are who found VW TDI's priced lower than similarly equipped Prius(es). Dealer markup doesn't enter into it -- just going onto VW's website, I can't price a TDI Sportwagen with DSG for less than $25k.

The well-equipped 2010 Prius II stickers for just over $22k -- certainly not what I'd consider a "hybrid premium".

Even the TDI sedan DSG starts at over $23k -- and I'm NOT interested in a Jetta sedan, thankyouverymuch. (Or in getting a manual transmission, thanks to the agonizing city driving.)

Don't get me wrong, I want a car exactly like the Jetta TDI Sportwagen -- I just don't want it to be a Volkswagen.

I think the hybrid is the technology that's proven. Toyota has made a bulletproof system for it's Prius- nothing but good reliability since the late 90s.

Diesel WAS proven- but all bets are off with the first, German, iteration of a complicated emissions control system. The potential for a Volkswagen mechanical/electrical nightmare with these cars is very high. I would give it several years at least before investing in one of these newfangled diesels.

Also note that at least here in New England, diesel fuel is horrendously expensive in the winter- I believe it was $1.00 a gallon more than premium last winter. The fuel price instability kills a lot of argument for diesel, particularily coupled with VW reliability.

@misterfusion

My mom bought her 2009 Jetta TDI in April for under $24k in San Diego. Her TDI is fully loaded with Nav, Leather (Leatherette), sun roof, 18" alloy rims & exterior chrome accents on the side mirrors and trunk lid.

Should thought about buying the TDI Sportwagen with the same options for an additional $1,500, but decided against it since she also bought a 2010 Ford F-150 to haul things around.

Before she bought the TDI she test drove the 2010 Prius and the only thing that impressed her was fuel economy. She was looking at the Prius 4 trim level with Navi and the dealer wouldn't budge anymore than $500 under the MSRP at $26.5k, so she left and looked around at other options (Insight, Altima Hybrid, Ford Fusion & Jetta TDI).