2009 BMW M3 Sedan: So Refined It Could Sometimes Be a 335i

335i + M3 suspension FTW.

'Nuff said.

Never has there been a more substantial group of pompous people who think they can drive than that of the fanboys for BMW...especially the M3.

I still say for the money you're better off buying a lux sedan and a sports car.

@hansverner: If you actually believe that's just BMW drivers, you need to get out more. I'm from KY and let me tell you, from Corvettes to Camaros and Mustangs to Monte Carlos, your typical bubba thinks he's all that and a bag of pork rinds when he's behind the wheel, too. The only real difference is the BMW owner's lips don't move when he reads a stop sign.

Gotta love it.

I am a BMW fan and owner, and I do not claim to know how to drive. I have never tracked a car, I am passable at best in indoor (kart) racing, and I like to see how fast I can get to 30MPH when the road seems open. So, I am probably somewhat dangerous, but probably less so than a lot of other drivers (but everyone thinks that, right?).

@louiswei: definitely, though I would just take the N54 and put it into an otherwise unchanged M3 coupe.

I like torque, and I think that choosing a less torquey engine just because it makes you shift more and think more about your shifts is silly. I can understand the reasoning, and I will not knock the decision, since it does not really bother me, but to me the N54 is a far better engine, even with the 100+ HP deficit compared to the S65. My opinion is colored by the fact that I learned how to drive a manual in what are called light trucks, with gas engines, which are a miserable driving experience. I love manuals, but I don't see why the clutch should be disengaged more than it is engaged. :)

"@hansverner: If you actually believe that's just BMW drivers, you need to get out more. I'm from KY and let me tell you, from Corvettes to Camaros and Mustangs to Monte Carlos, your typical bubba thinks he's all that and a bag of pork rinds when he's behind the wheel, too. The only real difference is the BMW owner's lips don't move when he reads a stop sign."

I'm in Ky also and 100% with this statement as cockiness is certainly not limited to M3 drivers. Out of all those cars he mentioned, Ive found Mustang drivers tend to be the worst.

"I like torque, and I think that choosing a less torquey engine just because it makes you shift more and think more about your shifts is silly."

Its not about shifting more Nealibob, its about that heightened level of intensity that the twin turbo I6 just doesn't possess. Its boring in comparison to the banshee wail of the high winding V8. An M car is supposed to deliver an experience that's truly different from the mainstream 3 Series and the V8 provides that substantial difference with its unique character. More torque isn't a bad thing but the change in character is going to ruin what the M philosophy stands for.

@Nealibob - I own a 335i. I live with the N54 daily. It's a featureless engine. I had more fun playing with a 128i recently than I had in a long time with my 335i's engine. Part of the problem is that there's no increase in excitement as you climb the revs - which are cut short by the turbos. On this long sweeper the other day I had the 128i in 3rd, as I crested the corner I realized I was getting a real charge out of that corner I take daily in the urbane 335i at the same speed. The two big differences:

1. 128i is decidedly lighter than my 335i
2. The 335i's engine is so flat that it never produces the rush I lived for in my 2003 330i ZHP's engine...the moment at 4k on the tach when the car exploded to life. The 128's responsiveness had grown. The engine was reacting to my throttle inputs and giving me an edge the N54 flat out fails to provide.

Yeah in stop n go traffic or on a long lazy drive the N54 is fine. But you know, I buy manuals TO shift. I want to drop 2-3 gears on the road to take off. The N54, you just squeeze the throttle. Yawn.

@ epbrown & hondacura

Fair enough. I don't know how things are in Kentucky. The difference between there and Los Angeles is that most people here would rather have a wannabe 3 series instead of a Mustang.

Fair enough. I need to do some back-to-back driving so that I can try to understand that. I guess I can see how a torque curve that isn't flat as a pancake would make things more interesting. The curve was way different in the MS3 I had for a few months, but that engine was not that much fun either, as it was a build to 3k RPM then BAM redline. It's a nice rush, and certainly not disappointing from a numbers point of view (neither is the N54), but I guess I can see how that might be boring. It would be nice if the next version of the N54 makes the same torque below 2k RPM, but keeps building after that.

"Part of the problem is that there's no increase in excitement as you climb the revs."

Blue, I think you hit the nail on the head. Most boosted and large displacement/high torque engines have the same strong (but overly boring) pull all over the powerband while the smaller high output engines deliver a surge in the middle of the powerband that gets stronger and stronger as the revs rise. Like you, I prefer the latter.

"I guess I can see how a torque curve that isn't flat as a pancake would make things more interesting."

Nealibob, if you ever get a chance to look at dyno charts of various small displacement/high revving you would see that a lot of them do have fairly flat torque curves. The difference is most of these engines tend to deliver peak torque at higher revs vs the larger displacement engines or turbocharged engines.

Having owned both a 335i, before trading it for an E92 M3, I can tell you that the M3, especially with the EDC in comfort, rides 10x better than the 335i ever did with it's loud, noisy, and extremely unyielding RFT tires.

blueguydotcom, you hit the nail on the head about what I've been saying about the BMW 3.0TT ever since it came out. I have never before or since driven a car that was so wicked fast that was so boring to drive after the novelty wore off. The 3.0TT from a technical standpoint is a pretty astonishing engine, but it's also uncoincidentally why the BMW now feels and sounds a lot more like a Volvo turbocharged inline 5 or 6, minus the turbo lag. And sadly, I think the Volvo turbocharged 6 actually sounds better (though I love the sound of the naturally aspirated BMW I6's).