2008 Pontiac G8: Eulogy Thoughts

I'm sad to see it go. A coworker in my office right now is in the market to replace his old Intrepid. We talk regularly about what possible vehicles he could consider, however I'm constantly baffled. When I think: what would I buy in this category? I'm honestly not sure. I see a boring field of Camry/Altima/Accord/Malibu/boooooring. The G8 was a spark of life at a lower price point. It will be missed.

*sigh* Thank you for putting my mind at ease. I can sleep knowing that it is better for it to go the way of ole yeller than to suffer the automotive rabies that is camryfication.

Let's give credit to Dodge- they hit the nail on this head first with the Charger.

"Gear heads like us love the idea of a discount BMW with a primal V8"

That's what I wanted.
That is what I have.
[ 2009 G8 GT ]
- Ray
Hoping it lasts for a good long while...

I disagree. I don't think the niche for people looking for affordable performance sedans is small, at all.

Just look at the average price for a performance saloon that can do anything close to what the G8 GT can do in a line and around the bend - you're spending a minimum of $40k. A brand spanking grand touring version of ye olde G8 clocks in at $31k at the dealer across the street I live on.

And you know, if G8s remained in production they would depreciate faster - in 2011, 2009 GTs could probably be had for anywhere from $15-20, which is just an unreal bargain for a car that fun and practical. Not to mention, historically low GM maintenance costs add to the appeal. The older Beemers enthusiasts are scouring Craiglist for in that price range are typically Gremlin-infested or will require some expensive modifications to remain capable of their stock performance.

Think, if the G8 had been in production for four, five years now, like the Malibu or something, it would be even more refined, efficient, powerful, safe - in other words, its appeal to the typical buyer would increase multifold while retaining its core enthusiast base.

I mean, just about man of moderate means that's ever owned a subscription to an automotive magazine would take GT or GXP like a shot. That's hardly a niche market. And besides, I've seen more women driving the things around here than men - there's appeal there.

A cratered market and bankruptcy conspired to end the G8. It could've been a volume seller.

The G8 strikes me as being a true classic in 10 years. Demand for this car will only rise over time.

"I'm sad to see it go. A coworker in my office right now is in the market to replace his old Intrepid. We talk regularly about what possible vehicles he could consider, however I'm constantly baffled. When I think: what would I buy in this category? I'm honestly not sure. I see a boring field of Camry/Altima/Accord/Malibu/boooooring."

An Intrepid fits right into that list of "booooring." The sort of people who like the G8 do not tend to be the sort of people who actually buy large sedans.

Agreed...However, we'll all probably be mourning over them when we see them traded-in for some future 'cash for clunkers' program.

I totally disagree. Slap a Chevy face on that car offer the current range of engines along with a turbo 4 and it would be a volume seller. The G8's biggest problem is it was a Pontiac sold in Pontiac showrooms.

One day the American driver will wake up and say "I want budget power again." And what's left of Detroit will respond with something like the G8 a bland (IMHO) exterior,decent interior 4 sedan that has a big brutal V8 that sakes the earth.

And all for about $30-35K.

If that miserable Impala they sell now has a place, a legitimately good car should have a place too.

hybris, consider committing yourself to an institution or monastery. The G8's sheet metal is objectively attractive. No way around it.

I'd still buy a G8 GT over a Charger, Impala, Avalon/Camry, Accord, and Buick LaCrosse.

Wow, I actually agree with an IL post. The media has always been out of touch with what regular car buyers want. RWD matters not to 90% of buyers and that's just the real deal. After my experience with a base model 2.7L Dodge Charger, I can tell you the driving experience was one of the worst I've ever experienced. Unless a RWD vehicle is tuned for sporty driving, it has NO dynamic advantage over a competitive FWD model, period. The auto press tries to get us to believe that RWD automatically means M3-esque handling and that couldn't be further from the truth.

@wrinklebump
To me the G8 looks like a slightly updated 19XX Pontiac (insert model name) its bland and old but mind you I didn't say ugly in anyway.

@chavis10
I think that 90% of buyers don't care where the power comes from because of too many years of drinking Camry/Civic juice they would have to be reeducated in the art of RWD.

So GM wouldn't carry on the G8 because badge engineering is against "new GM's" philosophy, but a Buick Vue didn't set off any alarm bells?

I like the G8 GT and all but lets be real about the handling. It is good for a large sedan, but it's no sports car.

As much as I love my '09 G8 GT, I can't put up much of an argument against that. It would have sold better with a slightly lower price and especially a Chevrolet badget, but not in huge numbers. It certainly couldn't replace the volume Impala. It would have to come in at a lot cheaper.

Buick Vue? I'm confused?

I like the G8 but I simply don't see the market for a such a car going forward. It certainly doesn't justify the expense of the continued importation. Epsilon II will spawn cars big enough for anyone's needs and is more flexible. Coupled with available torque vectoring Haldex AWD (in future applications) it will provide adequate performance for most buyers. Most buyers will not be able to appreciate what a high performance RWD car has to offer and the ones that will can save up for a CTS.

"Buick Vue? I'm confused?"

Fritz said the reason we won't see a G8 is that GM is done with badge engineering. While he was saying that, however, GM had plans for a Buick version of the Vue until the blogosphere went crazy (read: called them out it).

Oi mate, what's wrong with selling a rippah of a cah at low vahlume?

Git yah pruices tah where ya git raight fair mahgin oun each one and ya be sittin' raight pretty.

I am still hoping for someone to come up with a coherent explanation of the term 'budget/discount BMW' when referred to the G8. Does its build quality rival the 5 series? Does its technology? Maybe interior? Other than straight line performance and handling these two cars are completely different and calling one a discount version of the other is at the very least unprofessional, Mr. Riswick.

Honestly, everyone who calls the G8 a poor man's BMW sounds like a patriotic but a very desperate moron hoping to show off GM's 'achievement' in front of some imaginary audience.

Why won't Cadillac take this platform and use it for the next generation STS? That will surely rival the 5 series in a proper way.

What about the new SHO from Ford? Not a V8 but a twin-turbo 365hp vehicle is going to suit some of us.

Unfortunately, I think you hit the nail on the head. ; - (

This car had been doomed as soon as 49 cents or whatever his name is became the key marketing figure. A rapper (or should I say Rap-arTist) known to have bullet holes says this car is great and all bling bling and what have you.

Bye bye Camry/Accord/Malibu demographics because I doubt soccer moms will jump out and flash a gang sign.

So who were they trying to market this thing to? Other "Rap-arTist" who drive hummers and exotic cars? Or were they trying to sell it to thugs and "G"s? Well if that was what they had in mind, then they first need to cars to sell to normal people so that they can steal it later. Honda is doing well with Accords on that front.

@ctpax: Seriously?

It's the handling and performance (the important/good parts) of a 5-series minus half the cost and complexity.

Not all of us need heated steering wheels and iDrive to enjoy a car. Some of us plan on owning cars well beyond the free maintenance period or even *gasp* working on them _ourselves_.

super_ongoy,
Try again. On second thought, don't.

Mad_Science:

Ummmm. Yeah, pretty seriously.

You can't be one sided like that. By the same token should we call M3 a 'discount Aston Martin DB9'?

So what if it's got the same handling and performance of a 5-series? Will you drive around in your G8 thinking you fooled the rest of the world because you got a discount BMW? Or will you even dare tell that to your friends and keep a straight face? That's just silly. You sound bitter when you draw comparison lines between these two cars.

BMW sells a lot more 5-series than GM does G8s so people should at least wait until this situation reverses and then brag about. Otherwise they just come off looking like douchebags.

@ctpax
I don't buy my cars to impress other people, I buy them for my own enjoyment.

If I had a G8, I would drive around enjoying the excellent engine and chassis. I would accelerate up every onramp and away from every stop with great rapidity, grinning. I would take it for drives in the mountains and listen to the tires squeal as I chase Bimmers up and down the hills, content that I've got an extra $30k in the bank.

I would brag to my friends about these accomplishments, not the brand of car I'm driving.

The current M3 runs with many ~100k supercars, so I'd say the comparison to the Aston is at least somewhat valid.

"
By hybrisAuthor Profile Page on September 29, 2009 10:58 AM

One day the American driver will wake up and say "I want budget power again." And what's left of Detroit will respond with something like the G8 a bland (IMHO) exterior,decent interior 4 sedan that has a big brutal V8 that sakes the earth.

And all for about $30-35K."

hybris, you are insane. This is an amazing looking car. This car turns way more heads than any other car I've owned. I've had more people stop and ask me about it than I ever expected. It's really incredible. I've had the car for about 4 months and it's by far the best car I've ever owned. Room for the wife and kids and damn fun to drive. I can't recommend this car enough. Get one while you can.

By adrean8jAuthor Profile Page on September 29, 2009 3:37 PM

What about the new SHO from Ford? Not a V8 but a twin-turbo 365hp vehicle is going to suit some of us.

The SHO is MUCH more expensive and not nearly as sporty. It's also heavier and doesn't handle nearly as well. And the MPG savings of the turbo 6 vs. the V8? About 1mpg. Not to mention you can get the G8 GXP cheaper than the SHO and it's quicker and MUCH better looking IMO.

+1 Mad_Science. While no, I don't drive aggressively (except on deserted roads), I do dearly love my G8 GT. IF I had mountains I'm sure I would go hunting all the 5s and Es and Lexus and Infinitis I could find. As it is, it is a large, fun, powerful car that is exactly what I wanted.

The Charger is old and dull and THAT one is so pathetically underpowered it is laughable chavis. Sure, a V6 Fusion, Accord, 6 might be fun, but it won't come close to a G8 or any other RWD sedan. But they're not supposed to. You drove the Camry of Chargers. Try one with a V8 and let me know what you think.

"I don't buy my cars to impress other people, I buy them for my own enjoyment.

If I had a G8, I would drive around enjoying the excellent engine and chassis. I would accelerate up every onramp and away from every stop with great rapidity, grinning. I would take it for drives in the mountains and listen to the tires squeal as I chase Bimmers up and down the hills, content that I've got an extra $30k in the bank.

I would brag to my friends about these accomplishments, not the brand of car I'm driving."

That is a perfect way to enjoy your car. But when you start saying it's a discount BMW (and only BMW!) and mention that you would chase down Bimmers at every opportunity, it is clear to see that you have an inferiority complex.

It seems people are more obsessed with BMWs and beating them on all possible fronts than actually getting with their cars as one.

Drawing comparisons of the type 'one is a cheap version of the other' between M3 and DB9 is insane and I will not even go there.

Here's the deal: some people (not many, apparently) want performance without having to pay for luxury.

More than a few times I found myself wishing I could get a BMW chassis with only bare-bones amenities. Basic stereo, cloth seats, no fake wood, etc.

The G8 is that car. It is like a 5 Series chassis without the luxury. That makes it a budget 5 series.

People talk about Bimmers so much because they are (or were) in fact, awesome. They are a standard by which sport sedans are measured. Everyone wants to challenge The Champ, not some 3rd place runner-up.

this blog reminds me of Jeremy Clarkson's latest Top Gear review, where he drove the V12 Vantage into the sunset. The political and economic climate are simply squeezing the life out of performance cars.

"...goodbye."

ctpax wrote:

"Why won't Cadillac take this platform and use it for the next generation STS? That will surely rival the 5 series in a proper way"

GM/Cadillac made the current CTS to compete with the BMW 5 series. Both cars are almost identical in size. When comparing the CTS-V against the M5, the Cadillac ends up quicker on a straighline, more controlled around the corners, has a more comfortable suspension and costs $35,000 less. Not to mention the build quality inside and out is just as good (if not better) than the M5.

So is a CTS-V a cheap man's M5? No. It's simply a better car.

I'll try again although not sure what I was asked to try again.

This is a simple case of product failure due to stupid marketing. Is the product awesome? Some say it is. I don't know for sure. But if you say it's a poor man's BMW, it sounds as if you have some issues.

About repackaging it and rebranding it as a Cadillac... I have doubts. Who would want to spend Cadillac type of cash on a pontiac? I wouldn't. And I sure won't buy anything named STS because like most families that owned one, my family spent years being frustrated over electrical failures.

CTS does not have the build quality of a 5 series. The car creaks and there are wires hanging out under the seat when I test drove one. It's nice. But I don't remember seeing exposed wires and using velcros to hire them in a BMW.

cptax-When driving my G8, most of the time it is the BMW driver that starts the challenge, and what is soooo funny is that when they get beat by the G8, they must feel like a fool for buying into the BMW hype of the "ultimate driving machine".

Most BMW's I see are at the body shop, because the people that buy them have more money than driving skill. Maybe they are trying to figure out the i-drive?

BMW buyers will not cross-shop a Pontiac and Pontiac buyers will not cross shop BMW. The G8 is a solid car and a relative bargain. The unfortunate thing is, nobody bought any of them. Just like the GTO. It was a pretty good car and noone bought them. The end.

@formerhpb

Go to Google images and search Pontiac cars and you will see virtually the same front end on the G8 as they had on Grand Am's and just about every car they made in the last 20 or so years its boring and stale.

I'm not insane I just want the car to look different than the old lower end cars of old.

I can honestly say that this is one of the few cars on the road that cause me to turn my head for a second glance every time I see one. Perhaps the relative rarity of the car is one reason, but the primary reason is that it's just a damn good looking car. I can't say the same for all the generic BMWs and MBs I see daily.

@hybris

If you look at the bulges from the wheel wells up front, the very low front air dam, more squared off front end, etc. It of course has the dual kidneys that Pontiac's all have, but it definitely looks 'meaner.' I've had 4 different pontiacs and this one gets the most attention by far. I've been asked by many people "What is that thing?" So if they are asking, it obviously doesn't look like other Pontiacs. Most people are surprised to hear it's a Pontiac. It really is a shame it took them so long to get a proper sports sedan in their lineup.

"Who would want to spend Cadillac type of cash on a pontiac?"

On a side note – but related:
Why is there no CTS between the 3.6 DI at just over 300 HP, but only TQ?? and the CTS-v at 500+ HP & TQ??

I firmly believe that a CTS with the upgraded wheel & tire package and suspension upgrades [ as available on the ‘regular’ CTS ] with either the corporate 6.0L or 6.2L V8 and 6L80 automatic trans. and a price between the top \ ‘fully loaded’ CTS and the CTS-v would sell. And not be immensely expensive or time-consuming to develop, engineer & start producing.

A fully loaded [ everything except AWD ] CTS is almost $53K.
[ See below ]

. . but, it seems to me that a well equipped, performance oriented
[ and minus sunroof & navigation system ]
CTS at just under $50K
+ a real “American” V8 –
but still priced well below the CTS-v,
would actually sell quite well.

The price gap between that ‘performance oriented’ CTS @ $49K-ish and the CTS-v at $61K is [ obviously ] about $12K.
And I expect that a [ relatively ] off-the-shelf drivetrain transplant \ upgrade to a 360 HP 6.0L V8 or 400 HP 6.2L V8 and big TQ could be accomplished with [ again, relatively ] minimal effort.
And an MSRP bump of no more than $5K or $6K.

[ Relevance here is the G8’s planned supply of V8s now has nowhere to go. ]

And the result of implanting a normally aspirated V8 into the CTS ought to be a very quick
[ noticeably quicker than the CTS V6 DI that I test drove ]
& well-balanced RWD performance sedan.
With some level of sophistication - above my G8 GT.
It would likely require a lower GGT than the CTS-v,
would deliver better ‘real world’ gas mileage.
I believe that it could have an MSRP of $54K to $55K
- and an actual transaction price around $52K or $53K.
The 2010 BMW 550i [ V8, 360 HP ] MSRP w/dest. = just over $61K.

Would this constitute a ‘cut rate BMW’?

Regardless - This would seriously interest ME.
[ For one. ]
As an eventual replacement for my G8 GT . . .

YMMV.
- Ray

2010 Cadillac CTS
Premium 4dr Sedan (3.6L 6cyl 6A)

+ Y43 Summer Tire Performance Pkg
& destination =
approx. $52,800.

super_ongoy wrote:

"CTS does not have the build quality of a 5 series. The car creaks and there are wires hanging out under the seat when I test drove one. It's nice. But I don't remember seeing exposed wires and using velcros to hire them in a BMW."

Have you driven a CTS-V? There's much more attention to detail in the V than a regular CTS. The build quality is far superior. If you don't believe me just look up any review on the CTS-V or better yet, test drive one then immediately head over and test drive a 550i or M5. Remember that the CTS-V is in the price range of a 550i yet out performs BMW's M5.

Does the regular CTS have the same build quality as a BMW 3 series, MB C-Class or Audi A4? Short answer is YES.

"I think that 90% of buyers don't care where the power comes from because of too many years of drinking Camry/Civic juice they would have to be reeducated in the art of RWD."

Most buyers dont care about RWD because most people drive simply to get from A to B. When you see vehicles like the Cube, xB, Corolla, etc. proliferating on our roads that tells you most Americans don't care about styling or handling. RWD is irrelevent in most cases.

Sabastian:

Badge engineering is only ONE reason the G8 isnt being continued. The car only started to sell once GM put thousands in rebates on the hood. With discounts and exchange rate issues the car is not profitable for GM. They are not going to tool up an NA factory for this car just to sell 30k a year. The Buick based on Vue was killed after GM invited people to look at their future product. The "blogosphere" didn't call them on anything. GM invited people to look at the vehicles and provide feedback. The Vue was going to be continued as a Buick (with changes) because of the 2-mode hybrid system.

"CTS does not have the build quality of a 5 series. The car creaks and there are wires hanging out under the seat when I test drove one. It's nice. But I don't remember seeing exposed wires and using velcros to hire them in a BMW."

Have you driven a CTS? Of course not. Have you read any other long term tests aside from IL's test? I doubt it. MT had a CTS for a year and put 25k miles on it and had few complaints about durability or squeaks and rattles. EVERY brand of car is victim to squeaks and rattles. If you peruse the comments made by CTS owners who rated their cars you will see few comments about poor build quality or squeaks. considering the 7 series has interior pieces popping off with little provocation I wouldn't go around saying the CTS is lacking in build quality. How many inteior components came unmoored in the CTS during its stay with IL?

BMW may not use velcro but they use glue to hold carpet in place. Same difference. All cars use tape, adhesives or velcro in places customers aren't meant to look.

"BMW buyers will not cross-shop a Pontiac and Pontiac buyers will not cross shop BMW. The G8 is a solid car and a relative bargain. The unfortunate thing is, nobody bought any of them. Just like the GTO. It was a pretty good car and noone bought them. The end."

Umm, actually I did cross shop BMWs and the G8, along with a few other vehicles (Japanese, domestic, and German). I even had it narrowed down to the 335i sedan and the G8. Was the 335i better? Yes, except in the roominess department. Was it a lot better? No. Was it better enough to justify its extra cost? No. I'm a fan of good performance cars and that's what I shopped. I just couldn't pass up on the solid performance and value the G8 offered. Also, I've owned 2 BMWs, including my previous car. A good friend of mine went from an M3 to a G8 GXP, so I'm not alone.

"Umm, actually I did cross shop BMWs and the G8, along with a few other vehicles (Japanese, domestic, and German). I even had it narrowed down to the 335i sedan and the G8. ....so I'm not alone."

Me, too.
I could have written that -
almost word-for-word.
- Ray
Happy with the choice of a G8 GT, for several
reasons - not just $$s saved....

The reason the G8 GT is discontinued is because the U.S. government taxpayer and the U.A.W. now own the company.

In order to make it sell at the price point the G8 GT had to be made in Australia and shipped to the states. Which is not going to happen with the new owners.

The new owners only want to sell what they make at the price that they want.

While the G8 will not survive the new GM it will be a cult performance classic.

"If I had a G8, I would drive around enjoying the excellent engine and chassis."

Oh yeah, a pushrod is in the same league as a high revving V8 or V10. M5 competitor? Please. The only thing these two cars have in common is dimensions and straight line speed. Does it handle half as well? No. An actual competitor will have at least similiar engines, same level of equipment regardless of price difference and equal or better performance.

This car is what most GM products are, half arsed. It is good enough for its price tag, the best for that matter but not good enough to be compared to an M car. Another good example would be the ZO6, it has a 7L V8 with a leaf suspension and people think it can actually compare to a Porche GT3 in performance or driving dynamics. Why even go there when its a decent car in its own right?

I don't know why people are so desperate to prove that their domestics are superior to other cars. Are they really that bad? Or are you really that insecure that you need every excuse to justfy your cars existence?

"Both cars are almost identical in size. When comparing the CTS-V against the M5, the Cadillac ends up quicker on a straighline, more controlled around the corners, has a more comfortable suspension and costs $35,000 less. Not to mention the build quality inside and out is just as good (if not better) than the M5."

Congratulations, it beat a car that came out what? Four years ago?

“Oh yeah, a pushrod is in the same league as a high revving V8 or V10. M5 competitor? Please.”

I don’t see where anyone here has suggested that the G8 GT is an M5 competitor. It is not.

What I
[ and others, including Edmunds editors & Automobile Magazine, for instance ]
HAVE suggested is that the G8 GT offers a good portion of the dynamic goodness of a BMW 535 or 550 at a rather drastically lower price.

Corvette ZR1’s motor [ LS9 ] has pushrods.
The LSA in the CTS-v has pushrods.

Either would be fine with me.
I happen to like
[ great steaming piles of ]
low RPM TQ - as well as high revs.

You’re welcome.
- Ray
In a different league – and happy with that . . .

"In order to make it sell at the price point the G8 GT had to be made in Australia and shipped to the states. Which is not going to happen with the new owners."

Actually its been killed because it wasn't selling well and Pontiac is being killed. I'm not sure what part of "poor sales" people are missing here. GM didn't even set the car high- they projected 40k units a year and it wasn't even meeting that modest standard before the recent sales bump.

"Oh yeah, a pushrod is in the same league as a high revving V8 or V10. M5 competitor? Please. The only thing these two cars have in common is dimensions and straight line speed. Does it handle half as well? No. An actual competitor will have at least similiar engines, same level of equipment regardless of price difference and equal or better performance."

actually Automobile compared the G8 to the 550i ($70k) and said the two cars were very comparable. The G8 lacked the luxury features of the 550i but gave up nothing in ride quality and handling. The test numbers backed up their assertions. As usual you are wrong.

"Congratulations, it beat a car that came out what? Four years ago?"

Yeah congratulations go out to Cadillac because the E55 was never able to best the M5 and the CTS-V does the job for $30k less. The "it only took them 3 years" card would work better if MB or Audi had ever managed to beat the M5 but they didn't. So the fact that the CTS-v is the first sports sedan seen as wholly competitive with the M5 and the fact that Cadillac sells it for $60k is very noteworthy. Get over it.

You are forgetting that the Infiniti G35 was a discount BMW and it succeeded quite well. Yes, Pontiac was too late with the G8 and left in some Australian features that didn't translate to the US market very well, but it could have been a good option for those looking for a slightly discounted G35/G37.

I too shopped the 3, A4, IS350, G37. What I came to realize is, while they were all good in their own way, they were all to small. I do not need seats that massage, cool, tell me my horoscope. I do not need sat nav with realtime anything. Nor do I need wood inside or 120/hour labor to fix it when it breaks down.
I think the reason did not take off when it landed was the price of gas at the time. It was not because it wasn't good. Couple that with advertising that was mostly non existent, and you know rest.
I have had my G8(09.5) since march and love it. Quiet, quick, smooth, and an absolute bargain.