2008 BMW 135i: 25,000 Miles of Ownership

Roadburner:

How are the Pirelli P Zero Nero's on the X3? I have a 2007 with the P Zero Rosso's and I hate them with a passion.

They are wearing very well. They are quiet and relatively responsive for an all-season tire. I'll probably get @45,000 miles out of them. I have the same tires on my Mazdaspeed 3 and they have become very noisy; I'll be lucky to get them to 25,000 miles.

is this car going to be staying for the full 2 years then?

and have you guys sold the 02 M3 yet? If not, I wonder if I can pony up the money to get in on that...

So, let me get this straight. The car comes with free scheduled maintenance and a good warranty, and you're surprised at how little it has cost you? The only thing you should be paying for in this instance is damage or wear caused by the driver and/or bad luck (getting a dent in a parking lot, etc.).

To me, it sounds like what you should really be reflecting on is how lucky you have been in LA traffic!

I'm running about 30 bucks a month with my 03 325i with 104k miles. Its gonna need new tires soon though, so that will put a dent in that.

I still don't get BMW's insistence on runflats. I had the same tires on my 335i, but they lasted to 26,000 miles for me. I just replaced them with the Sumitomo HTR ZIII's, and I am impressed with the difference in ride quality, not to mention the $600 difference in price. Now that I have a set of winter wheels, I have a full size spare (which unfortunately eats about half of my usable trunk space).

Are you including the cost of the reflash?

It would be nicer if it had no repairs...

Since everyone seems to want to give a reason why this isn't that impressive, let me make a few comments:

Roadburner - Your 1995 M3 Club Sport is averaging 690 miles per month over 14 years and 116,000 miles (14 years x 12 months per year / 116,000 miles).

So you annualize 8280 miles per year, which is pretty much spot on $100 per month if you were you drive 25,000 miles per year.

In other words, your (personally maintained and non-run flat shod) 14 year old M3 is costing you the same amount per month/mile as this 135i is costing edmunds....which is awesome, but at the same time kinda shows the extremes that edmunds went to when choosing their tires.

So I figured I'd give my own example:

I drive a 2006 Civic SI which is about to crack 70k miles. I drive about 22k miles a year (averaged out).

In the last year, I have spent:

$800 for new, quality michelin pilot exalto tires installed
$100 on a new battery (interstate)
~$80 on oil & filters
$30 on cabin air filter and wiper inserts
$40 on a transmission fluid change

So about $1050 per year, which seems about right and average, at least when I go through a set of tires per year.

I mention this because the ownership costs are tremendously driven by driver choice.

Do you do your own repairs? Do you buy cheap tires, middle-of-the-road, or expensive tires? Do you take your car to a dealer? How much do you drive?

I actually think that BMW's become pretty good deals when you buy a CPO with the 6-year, 100k mile maintenance package. It pretty much pays for itself with the 60k mile service & first brake job.

Joe

Seems spot on with my experiences owning bimmers inside warranty. My car only has about 15k more in the original warranty and then the CPO kicks in.

Joe, how much is the maintenance package? When I bought my CPO they mentioned it but I just wanted to get out the door so I really didn't pay any attention.

I am a little annoyed that my 335i's maintenance expires about 2000 miles before it will ask for front brake pads. That, and I likely only get one more free oil change. So, here is all the maintenance that will be included for 3 years/36k miles:
- 3 oil changes
- 1 microfilter replacement
- 1 miscellaneous service

Sounds like maybe $500 worth of work at full dealer rates. Not really very impressive, but I guess it is a nice perk. Nice in that you get something "extra" on a car where you can barely negotiate the price down anyway.

Joe, does that CPO package include more than brake pads in the brake job? How much are they charging for it? I totally agree with your comment about driver choice, since this is all different for everyone.

I like taking my cars to dealerships for all service (except tires) while they are still under warranty, so that it is harder for them to try to reject any potential warranty repairs. I also like getting oil changes more than every 8-10k miles in a car with turbos. Call me crazy, but it seems like a good idea.

joe,
It's not an M3, although it does have a M Technic body kit- my Club Sport is a limited edition BMW iteration of the 318ti. That said, you make several excellent points. In my case I perform most of the minor maintenance myself, but the car really hasn't needed a lot of repairs. About all I've had to do is replace some idler pulleys, a thermostat, and the brake light switch. The X3 is a perfect example of why CPO BMWs are a great deal. In my case, the $56/month figure includes the cost of the Inspection II as well as the brakes. Also note that I perform a DIY oil change in between the SI indicated maintenance, which amounts to an extra $55 or so every 16,000 miles.

"I also like getting oil changes more than every 8-10k miles in a car with turbos. Call me crazy, but it seems like a good idea."

I agree; I change the Mobil 1 5W-30 in my Mazdaspeed every 5,000 miles. Used oil analysis indicates that I could run the oil out to @7,000 miles, but I prefer to err on the safe side. Based on what I've read concerning the N54 motor, I'd say a similar oil change interval would be an excellent idea: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280168

BGDC - "Joe, how much is the maintenance package? When I bought my CPO they mentioned it but I just wanted to get out the door so I really didn't pay any attention."

It depends on vehicle obviously, but I believe it was around $1200-2500 depending on discount/final pricing/etc.

Nealibob - "Joe, does that CPO package include more than brake pads in the brake job? How much are they charging for it? I totally agree with your comment about driver choice, since this is all different for everyone."

The maintenance package covers every single wear item, except tires, on the vehicle. This includes brake pads, rotors, all fluids, and even the clutch in a 6-speed manual. It includes all inspection 1 and 2 services...so if you are like me and would drive 100,000 miles in those years, you'd get the full tune-up services performed for no charge as well as brakes and, potentially, clutch.

Roadburner - That's funny, I started to type "your 318" and then I said to myself, "Wait, he said clubsport....wasn't 1995 the year of the club sport m3"....

And now I remember it was the year of the M3 lightweight with the M flag across the hood....lol

Lastly, regarding oil.....BMW n/a engines can definitely handle the ~15k oil change intervals using BMW long life approved oils. This is partly due to their engines being easy on oil, and also due to a good sized oil sump and high quality synthetic.

Their turbo engines seem to be able to consistently handle 10k on the original oil (yes, some UOAs show otherwise). But it definitely seems that a 7.5k oil change is in the best interests of maintaining the car long-term.

Joe

Less than $100 a month? Really? I know BMW boasts about their "free" routine maintenance for the first 4 yrs/50K miles, but let's face it ... nothing is "free." Anyone who buys a BMW is paying for routine maintenance costs somewhere in the purchase price. Why don't you add in the cost of what the routine maintenance would be? Trust me, you're paying for it one way or another.

"BMW n/a engines can definitely handle the ~15k oil change intervals using BMW long life approved oils. This is partly due to their engines being easy on oil, and also due to a good sized oil sump and high quality synthetic."

I tend to agree, but it seems that my X3 is a notable exception. After just 8,000 miles the additive package of the oil is almost totally depleted- and that is using Mobil 1 0W-40(I'm currently running 5W-40 TDT to see if it holds up any better). Here's the latest UOA:
http://www.carspace.com/roadburner/Albums/roadburner%27s%20Album/X3UOA4.JPG

Road - Ever thought about trying AMSOIL SSO 0w30? My SI has run 16.3k miles of fairly hard use in about 9 months and it's remaining TBN was 2.6 (granted, my car consumed and was topped off with 2.5 quarts during that time). I could've run 18-20k with it.

Honestly, I'm kinda blown away by the TBN on the Mobil One 0w40. You've got a 2.5 liter inline six cylinder that drove 8k in 5 months if I'm readin ghtat right. IIRC, that 2.5 liter has a 6-8 quart sump. That oil should be golden for a 10k run, especially when driven so frequently and in such an easy going engine combined with a large sump.

The only thing I can think of is that the engine is working very hard to move all that mass/AWD system and therefore taxing the oil greatly.

Good stuff you got there :)

Joe

nealibob - if you get free brake jobs under the maintenance plan, you should be slamming those brakes hard to make sure you get them replaced while still covered.

Run-flat tires don't make sense to me. New cars have Roadside Assistance so if you get a flat, you can get a free tow. If you have a run-flat tire, sure you can drive to the tire shop yourself but then you must scrap the tire and buy a new, expensive one to replace it as there is no patching RFTs. The trade-off is about 1 hr of time (waiting for tow vs. driving to tire shop yourself) but the resulting cost to replace vs. repair is a couple hundred bucks.

Joe,
I might give the Amsoil a try. As for the UOA, I'm baffled as well. My wife is the primary driver and she is anything but an enthusiastic driver; most of her trips are over 5 miles one way, with very little if any stop and go conditions. With a 7 quart sump the oil should be lating longer than 8,000 miles.
Si I take it you like your Si? It's a terrific car. When I bought my MS3 in 2007 I had narrowed my choices down to the GTI, MS3, and Si. I liked the Si but the local Honda dealers had slapped on loads of "accessories" that I either didn't want or could get much cheaper somewhere else.

What a joke!

Let's consider your $700/month payment as well.

BMWs are great cars, but one thing they are not is cheap.

nf

7 quarts....good god. Are you sure your wife isn't driving that car up a 50 mile long 18% grade every day? What is up with that....

I love my SI and I can't wait to replace it with an e39 BMW.

It gets 30mpg even though I regularly redline 4th gear once a day and 2nd and 3rd gear several times a day. I cruise at 75-80mph and almost always shift at 4500-5000 rpms once the car is warmed up. It handles really well (especially with the michelins....they actually somehow corrected a weird steering feel that had been present), is very easy to maintain, and has had almost nothing go wrong with it in 70k. It's seats are comfy and it's shifter is a joy (clutch take-up is usually easy to modulate, but every once in awhile it just becomes hard to predict).

It's got awesome ergonomics and cubbies galore.

The main downside to it is a lack of power below 6000 rpms (it's zippy, but compared to my legacy GT in 4th gear at 3500 rpms it's got nothing), and it's sheetmetal tends to ding easy and chip paint.

If you can get over the lack of power (and since you own a 318, I imagine that doesn't bother you too much) and garage the car/park carefully, it's one heckuva value nowadays at around 12-15k depending on year and mileage.

FYI, I bought mine off the truck. Literally, the Honda dealership called me and said they had this one coming off the truck how I wanted one equipped but a different color. I came and picked it up that evening....

It's got at least another year/20k miles with me, could be alot longer.

Joe: thanks for the information. Definitely good to know.

I get the idea of driving hard to hit maintenance sooner, but I am more interested in treating my car with respect than saving a couple hundred dollars and a few hours of my time. Unless I win the lottery, I would like to hold onto this one for quite a while. Even then, it's a fantastic city car (automatic - mileage suffers a bit, but at least it's fun), so I would keep it and beat on it more. :)

m_thrizzle,

A couple years ago I got a flat with one of my RFTs while on the 101 headed to San Francisco. I was almost there so I finished my trip and parked the car. I called BMW Assist before I was ready to head home and had them tow the car the 40 miles south to my dealership in Mountain View. I didn't want to drive the 101 home at 55 mph and of course there's no spare. The tow truck driver was amazed I was having the car flatbedded to the dealer for a flat tire. Stupid RFTs.

"What a joke!

Let's consider your $700/month payment as well."

OK, lets do just that. Oh wait, I don't have a $700 month payment. I own both cars free and clear...

joe,
The M42 in my ti also needs to be kept "on the boil", as the Brits like to say. If you keep the rpm above 3,500 it moves along surprisingly well. The direct top gear means that the engine is turning 4,000 rpm at 80 mph, but it still returns 31 mpg at that speed and has ample power in reserve. Like you, I have a fast car as well as a relatively "slow" car, and I've found that it's true that it is sometimes more fun to drive a slow car fast.

My fast car isn't that fast (the legacy), but it will be.

I'm not sure the exact route I'll take yet, but it starts around 200whp and 210 wtq and will end up at around 250whp and 300wtq for about $500 or less in engine tuning and one less cat blocking my spool.

I think an e39 M5 will be my first "fast" car. That is, if I don't convince myself that a 540i/6 or 530i/5 would be a better choice...

So, you paid $37,145 for a subcompact car, and now you're rejoicing the additional cost you pay for maintenance is only $87.50 a month...
...
...
I see...
...
... *moves on to the next thread*...

BillT-

Remove the run-flat tires they chose to purchase, and what do you have...

Oh yeah...

@tryan "So, let me get this straight. The car comes with free scheduled maintenance and a good warranty, and you're surprised at how little it has cost you? The only thing you should be paying for in this instance is damage or wear caused by the driver and/or bad luck (getting a dent in a parking lot, etc.)."

Totally true.

@ tryan "So, let me get this straight. The car comes with free scheduled maintenance and a good warranty, and you're surprised at how little it has cost you? The only thing you should be paying for in this instance is damage or wear caused by the driver and/or bad luck (getting a dent in a parking lot, etc.)."

Totally true.

Joe,
As you know, I've looked long and hard at both the E39 eights and sixes, and I now think that the 530i manual(with the Sport Package) is the real sweetheart of the bunch. The M54 I6 is almost bulletproof. Refresh the radiator, thermostat, and water pump every 100K and you are golden. The V8s tend to have more chronic and complex issues. My service advisor calls the E39 530i manual "the ultimate E39", and I think he's on to something. It's so good it almost makes me forget about my favorite 5er- the E28 535is I ran from 1990-1992.

Roadburner, if your wife only takes short 5 mile trips, that is considered harsh driving conditions because the engine oil has not heated up enough. I don't know if BMW service indicators are still solely based on gas consumption but if so, it won't know you are driving under harsh conditions.

m_thrizzle,

I said that most of her trips are over five miles one way. Even so, the UOAs don't indicate excessive amounts of fuel or moisture in the oil- and certainly not enough to decrease the oil life by 50%.

@noflash - $700 a month payment? WTF? My highest lease payment on a BMW was $485. I negotiated under $400 on a 2008 328 and less than $600 on an 08 M3 earlier this year. $700 a month for a payment on a BMW = someone got taken to the cleaners.

Blueguy - I think he meant financing a purchase, not a lease. BMW's are actually better cars to lease since they hold their value so well (for no apparent reason other than the marquee).

Yes, if you buy a $38k car, you'll have about a $700/month payment.

If you lease, you're a bigger fool (unless you have a write-off loophole).

It's ridiculous to post how cheap BMW is.

Cheers, nf

"Yes, if you buy a $38k car, you'll have about a $700/month payment."

Not if you pay cash.

Then you had one big $38k payment -- whatever; it's not cheap.

nf