2009 BMW M3: I Just Checked the Oil at 80 mph

It's brilliant. But MB has had this since at least 1998.

It is a nice feature, but it should have a traditional dipstick too. For the same reasons you slammed the Pontiac G8 for not having one on its automatic transmission.

Oh does it not have a real dipstick? Then sorry, fail.

ditto stringray454... and leave domestic fanboys alone!

Yeah, Scott, I don't think anybody thinks that's a dumb feature, but not having a dipstick is. Can't wait for the first BMW customer to get into a fight with a dealership over an engine failure when his sensor malfunctions and an out-of-warranty engine blows up. If the customer can't possibly check the oil level, how would he be liable for that?

Its nifty, but BMW had some major issues with this (not sure if its still happening or not) because customers would check it on an uneven surface and see its low on oil, so they would add more to it. This resulted in many service visits to drain and refill the oil. These same people whom lack common sense probably would never pop the hood to check the dipstick, but since BMW made it so easy... lol.

For me, this (lack of dipstick) is a good reason to consider another car (rather than moonroof shade gaps). I may find this acceptable in some kind of commuter appliance, but in a performance machine the inability to assess the oil other than a digital display is just plain stupid. You might as well just replace the coolant temp, oil temp, and oil pressure gauges with idiot lights while you're at it. And just for completeness, give it an automatic tranny as well.

Great feature for the first two owners of the car.

Beyond that, I wouldn't trust it.

Does or does not this car have a real dip stick?

I think the key points have already been made, but I would like to propose that, in general, our technology is moving towards too many systems without good failsafes or fault tolerance.

For example, if an escalator fails, it still works as a set of stairs. Same things goes for an electric toothbrush. And you don't build a building with elevators without a set of stairs as well.

That's always been the beauty of things like manual transmissions (which can be shifted even in the event of clutch failure, and can bypass broken gears), dipsticks, manually locking hubs on 4WD vehicles (or at least a manual option).

While in theory, and in practice 99% of the time, electronic checks of oil levels, purely DBW throttle control, etc. is useful and beneficial, not having a fallback is somewhat bothersome to this engineer.

LOL...looks like you checked it at 0 mph.

Scott Oldham == A sissy & Traitor to the Motherland.

There, I said it.

This is a cool feature but it needs a dipstick AS WELL. If I had a BMW I would want all the possible reasons under to sun to lift up its hood and play under there. Its a BMW, not a microwave!

BMW owner and it's a worthless feature.

The Previa had something similar. Since the engine was under the from seats, when the little float detected low oil in the main sump, it would activate a pump that pump some oil from a tank under the hood into the main sump. The issue is when the float would get stuck in the low position and it would pump the entire tank under the hood into the engine. But this seems to be a rare occurrence.

My A4 Avant has this. It IS cool and handy. But, as everyone's already said, sensors can and do fail.

My E46, for example, has a dipstick and a sensor (doesn't display level, just lights up if the level's too low). Sensor failed. I checked the dipstick and continued on my way until I could replace the sensor at my next oil change.

Couldn't do that with this car or with my A4.

The failure mode of the sensor would be important here: does it at least light up when it's not working, or do you get a false reading when there's actually no oil in the car? False "positives" would and could be devastating -- don't know if these systems are engineered to avoid such failures.

I wouldn't trust it nearly as much as I do a simple dipstick. A dipstick is material. It is real. It can't give a false reading because it is what it is. (Assuming you did the process right and the stick was marked correctly, but you get my point.) A dipstick is something you can touch. In fact, I did touch one once. Weird story - I had a "The Happening"-like random brain fart, where the self preservation instinct in my mind just shut down for a moment and I decided to grab the end of the dipstick right after pulling it out, without a rag. I knew better, but for whatever reason I forgot that for one unfortunate moment. But I digress...dipsticks = if it works, don't reinvent it to make it more complicated.

I hate the lack of a real dipstick too. But just so you know, BMW did away w/ the dipstick in an effort to reduce emissions...not to be cool, or to save the cost of a dipstick. I guess the dipstick tube is a source of uncontrolled emissions (albeit slight). I can't remember if it was to comply w/ a european emission reg, or just in anticipation of stricter regs. So expect dipsticks to fall by the wayside on more cars in the future. Personally, this is just one more reason for me to keep my aging E46 but I digress.

"if it works, don't reinvent it to make it more complicated"

@stovt001, that just isn't the BMW Way!

er, and here's the link I tried to embed

(http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/2009/02/2008-bmw-x5-48i-park-are-you-kidding-me.html)

This is a good idea for all cars. However, it should really go into the RX-8. MAZDA are you listening??? Anyone who has owned an RX-8 knows that you need to check the oil at every other gas station stop. This would be great to have in a car like the RX-8 that is designed to consume oil during normal operations.

Really Scott?? What a lame jab, and by saying it all you're doing is implying that your publication is biast. If you want to become the TTAC, then so be it....just own up to it.

And OMG you checked the oil via sensor! You do know it probably takes all but 5 minutes to check oil level (on cars equipped with the proper goods)? On top of that sensors fail, and if your previous gen M3 was any indicator on how costly and durable things like these are, then be my guest.

great idea as long as a dipstick is still in the car just in case it fails

I guess that fanboy thing was directed at me and I just took a quick count I do actually own one more European car than domestic. And there is no way around it that is a useful trick, so many times where I've wished I knew oil level on the fly.

The main problem with this sensor in practice (20,000kms on my M3) is that it is almost binary in operation- oil too high, oil just right, oil too low.

When you first notice that the oil is low, you are not supposed to top up the oil--only when the sensor indicates that it very low do you add oil (and 1 liter/quart at that point).

Adding oil before the emergency light goes off can lead to too much oil being added which BMW says can damage the engine (and which triggers a warning "MAX" that I guess means take it to the dealer to have the--expensive oil--drained.

Also the sensor takes time to come on line, as it were, so its possible you might drive for a while without oil...

Also, you want to have an extra quart of oil for longer trips because it does consume oil -- I have only had to add 1quart over about 20,000kms but others add that much about every 5,000kms.

I would have much preferred the dip-stick back up option. Just as I like that there are valves on the tires I can check because the TPMS is not accurate for temp changes/small loss of pressure over time.

"This is a cool feature.

And now all the domestic fanboys can tell me why it isn't. "

Wow, its amazing that this guy is actually posting with the intent to offend/inflame "domestic fanboys" aka anyone who doesn't think its unrealistic to lavish praise on all BMWs all the time. Why should I be impressed by a "cool" feature thats available on a Cobalt? As always, nothing is worthwhile until it appears on a BMW product.

I think Scott likely got exactly the responses he was going for with this post. Predictability, ftw!

If I have a fluid on my car, I want a dipstick to check it (except for gas). That seems pretty simple, and reasonable, don't you think? Oil, tranny fluid, power steering fluid, coolant, even washer fluid unless the bottle is clear or opaque.

I think Scott was a little confused too. 80 mph means the big hand on the left is pointing at 80, not 0.

dougtheeng- Precisely!

Looks like Scott the predictable support of the usual suspects just as he hoped. Do you guys think you get special priveleges for brown nosing the editors? Just curious. Are you battling to see who can be the most loyal?

It is fascinating how certain editors and their fan club members have rallied around this common enemy known as "domestic fanboys" when the reality is people whp drive and like all types of vehicles make fun of some of the sillier posts here. But its much easier to ignore that focus on those nefarious "domestic fanboys".

It's strange how some take this all sooooo seriously.

Who really cares Scott?

Are you happy the M3 is falling apart like the rest of your BMW's?

Its not really surprising that some of the Edmunds editors take a jab like this now and then. Once in a while even the best of us are worn down by the unrelenting flow of garbage spewed forth by certain commenters.

i'll echo that the feature loses coolness because there's no dipstick (and it is hard for me to buy the emissions rationale)

and dayumn, where's the performance test already?! have to wait for another phase of break-on or somethin?? ;) I want some juicy driving details

cheers
t

"Once in a while even the best of us are worn down by the unrelenting flow of garbage spewed forth by certain commenters."

I know this is hard for you to grasp doug but any opinion that differs from an IL editor's (which of course always coincides with your opinion) is not garbage. Garbage can come from many sources. If someone raises a valid point that happens to disprove what was posted on the blog its likely not garbage. Even the editors can be wrong- do I need to break out a few examples for you? These are the people who post about what a car cant do before consulting the manual- only to be proven wrong by some of the "garbage spewers" who actually know how to use their cars.

I agree that a dipstick should still be included, but mainly because this system is still relatively new and all of the bugs may not be worked out. Otherwise, like dual-band analog/digital cell phones, you just don't need the old way any more after awhile. Even with a dipstick I'd probably still rely on iDrive 9 out of 10 times. You really don't even need to "check" the oil anyway, iDrive/OBC will tell you when exactly a quart is needed. You're instructed in the manual NOT to add oil unless the car asks for it.

I've been told that this system has multiple redundancies - it doesn't rely on *one* sensor - and that it was over-designed to last the life of the vehicle. Still, I have to wonder how well it will work after 15 years and 150,000 miles given the associated components that must still be functioning then too.

It's nice as an accessory along with a dipstick. I would prefer a dipstick as well, but ultimately I'm not too worried about it - I enjoy driving, and will drive at a "spirited" level, but probably in realty not close to the levels of my car(s) edge. I change my oil regularly - I avoid synthetics since they are not recommended for my car(s). Really, since it gets serviced regularly with oil changes before and after long trips, I don't think I've looked at my dipstick in years.

The editor is just trying to get a reaction and some of you are just giving him ammo...

I will say that German cars really don;t need another electronic doohickey that is overtly complicated :) I sometimes wonder if BMW were to invent the automatic transmission, if it would be a robotic arm and leg built into the driver's seat that would row through the stick and clutch on a manual car :)

lukemc01-- lol, they've already been there done that. The SMG transmissions that were availale in various BMW models for the past 10 years or so is an automated manual trans. So they put a manul trans in the car, then strapped a cmputer and hydraulic actuator to it. It sucked badly and was overly complicated. Leave it to ze germans (i'm being a bit unfair since other carmakers have gone down this road too).

"I know this is hard for you to grasp doug but any opinion that differs from an IL editor's (which of course always coincides with your opinion) is not garbage. "

...*eye roll*.

as if thats true. I could give you so many examples, but its late and I'm not quite in the mood. If you're curious, check backposts for the Flex and G8 in particular.

Now, Lets consider your 'opinions'. Let's go over a standard 1487 post.

1) state that the editors and everyone else is wrong and you are in fact correct;
2) declare that 'most other' automotive media outlets disagree with IL;
3) claim that its a standard feature on a gm model;
4) point out that the blog unfairly didn't congratulate gm for having the same innovation 10 years ago;
5) point out some flaw in a BMW that may or may not be related to the post;

"1) state that the editors and everyone else is wrong and you are in fact correct;"

How could I be saying "everyone" is wrong if numerous people agree with me. Continue to delude yourself into believing I am a lone voice if you chose- but don't expect everyone else to embrace that false notion.

2. I've frequently said C&D agrees with virtually every opinion offered by edmunds. One difference would be that C&D generally doesn't like Toyotas while they tend to be well liked here.

3. its a known fact that you tend to get more standard equip on lower end American brands than on higher end German cars. Nickel and diming is what German brands do best. Its a fact, move on.

4. if you follow the industry you dont make a big deal out of features on $60k cars that have been on $20k cars for several years. Its got nothing to do with GM specifically.

5. I dont mention BMWs when the topic doesnt relate to BMWs. I like most BMWs, just don't worship them- sorry if that offends you. Unlike you, my viewpoints of whats worth liking and not liking are not strictly guided by the "professionals" who get paid to write about cars. BMWs (generally) look good and have great engines and thats what I like about them. Beyond that, I can find plenty to fault.

"Continue to delude yourself into believing I am a lone voice if you chose-"

I don't know how you can claim to have followers when so many people (other then myself) also take the time to point out the errors in your logic and posts. You claim support that does not exist. And you're blanket statements, things like "most other automotive magazines" or "most critics disagree", etc, are worthless because you never take the time to back them up. I

"Unlike you, my viewpoints of whats worth liking and not liking are not strictly guided by the "professionals" who get paid to write about cars."

You need a new line. I don't know how else to put that. You're trying to batter home a point that doesn't exist. The only problem is that as usual, you haven't done your research. I know you look at my posts because you often go out of your way to insult/argue with them. That being said, you never actually seem to read or understand the content. You just see a post from dougtheeng and then spew your rhetoric. I'm used to it, but I'm actually amazed you're still doing it after 2 years. Its like the FLAT EARTH SOCIETY - we all know its round, but apparently there are still one or two nut jobs out there who don't believe.

"I dont mention BMWs when the topic doesnt relate to BMWs. "

See Dodge Ram introduction post as example number 1. There was another one too recently, perhaps in one of the Insight posts.

Anyways, I'm done with this arguement today. It'll never end and I'm mostly good about not stepping down to your level, but your constant garbage is sometimes just too much. Have a good one. PS see Ford Flex post about sunroof where I agreed with you. Hold on...wait, I agreed with 1487 but since I always agree with editors, but since 1487 never agrees with editor.......wow its too early in the morning to figure out that conundrum.

"Now, Lets consider your 'opinions'. Let's go over a standard 1487 post.

1) state that the editors and everyone else is wrong and you are in fact correct;
2) declare that 'most other' automotive media outlets disagree with IL;
3) claim that its a standard feature on a gm model;
4) point out that the blog unfairly didn't congratulate gm for having the same innovation 10 years ago;
5) point out some flaw in a BMW that may or may not be related to the post;"

dougtheeng, you forgot:

6) Insult intelligence/opinions of the poster that stated a different view.

Exhibit A:

"I know this is hard for you to grasp doug ..."

bimmerjay;
He does have one new shtick:
7)Accuse other posters of sucking up if they agree IL