2008 Pontiac G8 GT: Tell Me Why I'm Wrong

You are not wrong. Nobody NEEDS a 362 hp V8 powered family sedan that can reach 60 mph in just a few ticks over 5 seconds.

But so what? If meeting the minimum was all that was required, the car we could buy would be based on the number of people in our household, the way the vehicle would typically be used, and the availability of public transportation.

It's not your place, of the government's to tell me what I should or should not drive. Feel free to buy the car that satisfies the minimum requirements to get you where you need to go. But don't for one second think you have the right to make that choice for me.

Or maybe it just isn't selling well enough to continue in a company that is struggling to stay alive.

Nothing to do with the future or hybrids or fuel economy numbers or horsepower... it's just a car that cost more to make, cost more to stock parts for and doesn't sell in large enough numbers to justify.

I would have to disagree. While we don't need a car with that kind of an engine to carry just four or five people doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. the V8 is an option after all and one could choose the V6 engine or even possibly a turbocharged I4 for a base to increase the fuel economy on it without sacrificing too much performance. I have nothing against hybrids but most out there just take the fun out of driving. Being able to carry four passengers plus luggage and blast through twisties is one of the best sensations especially when you drop the car down a gear or two, floor it, and push everyone into their seats. Fuel economy is important but just because of that doesn't mean we should get rid of all of the fun cars. Take a car like this away and then families that do want a good blend will have to settle for a simple family car and then say a V8 Camaro or something similar to replace it and then what do we have? two cars that probably burn more fuel combined than one car that is fully capable of doing both jobs well enough to replace those cars.

I agree that a 6L V8 isn't the future of American sedans. I love the G8 because of what it is, not what it could be (the savior of GM) or should be (an American 5-series).

Yes, I am very disappointed that GM will not be keeping the car in the US, because it is such a good car (especially compared to the 'milquetoast' current Impala). If GM can't make a case for it here, that is their problem. I guess the Commodore should have been a Chevy in the first place.

What I would really like is to keep the car around for spares for mine!

Just because its your constitutional right to be able to buy one doesn't mean that a company has to ensure its existence. I'd love to buy a flying plane to commute to work - don't tell me what I can and cannot do.

...if only it worked like that.

If the V6 G8 was popular, it wouldn't even be a question. With a starting price of over $28k only 256hp on tap, and poor gas mileage, it's not really on most people's shopping list. Alot of people forgot that the biggest sales numbers, in most cases, come from lower end configurations. If you're not looking for a V8 performance sedan, you're better off looking elsewhere.

My $0.02. While I'm not a fan of re-badging a vehicle to fit the marketing scheme of a particular brand, I feel that the G8 is the perfect replacement for the current Impala. Additionally, I think that Gubmint Motors is making a mistake by not re-using the G8 as such. As for fuel economy concerns, I agree with Wizard in that a whole host of motors would be appropriate for that car; A DI V6, or V8 with MDS or FlexFuel capability. And surely a hybrid system of some type would easily fit into a chassis of that size. They have most of these components on the market already, why not?

It didn't sell well, sport. American car industry can't survive by reminiscing about an era long gone.

To survive, American car companies need to make cars which sell well. That means smaller cars, cars for world markets like India & China and, yes even Hybrids.

Such a sad irony for Pontiac.
I remember their slogan a few years ago: "We build excitement." And now that same brand is about to be buried.

Then again; if the Pontiac brass has enough sense not to build/sell the Aztec.....

mrryte, I'm not so sure about the Aztek. It was a fine vehicle, but in the wrong division and cursed with even-its-own-mother-couldn't-love-it looks. Stick it in Buick, Chevy, Caddy and I think it does fine.

The car did not sell and it has little to do with it not being a hybrid. Most hybrids dont sell either. As with most hybrids the G8 appeals to a small segment of the buying public and that was the problem. Most car buyers in 2009 don't care about RWD unless they are buying a BMW or sports coupe. Couple that with the fact that large cars in general have been struggling (check out Avalon sales) meant the G8 was facing an uphill battle. SUVS have killed the large sedan market to some degree.

Small cars are not going to save GM or anyone else. This idea that people are migrating to compacts in huge numbers is a myth. If you remove Corolla and Civic from the equation most small cars are mediocre sellers. They have declined as much or more as other segments this year.

Mrryte:
As much as I hate the look of the Aztec, I think it was actually a decent car that came before its time. I'm pretty sure if the 2nd Aztec had better interor materials, Gms 3.6L V6, and a less odd looking exterior, it would have sold nicely in the current market.

That also kinda describes the G8. I think It came a day late and a dollar short. This car should have been released closer to the debut of the Charger, Magnum, and 300. I bet it would have sold pretty well then. In the age of trying to Reinstate Diesels, smaller cars, and better mpg, the G8 fails on all three counts.

But hey, thank goodness it was a Pontiac because in a few years, the used market for them is gonna be HOT!! Everyone knows pontiacs don't hold their value....

The G8 was a niche car, if a man had a wife and two kids, he can't have a Camaro, he needs something practical with a large interior and trunk, but still want's something sporty.

Anybody out there who says the G8 was a failure because it was RWD and had a V8 are idiots, who've obviously never seen the Dodge Charger, it failed for two reasons.

1. Absolutely no marketing support, you can't sell a car no one knows about.

2. Poor mileage in the V6, right out of the gate it should have came with the 3.6DI from the CTS.

In my mind, if any RWD sedan comes to Chevy, here's how it'll pan out, the Impala will go to super Epsilon II for volume, and a Caprice based on the longer wheelbase Zeta platform will move in on top of the Impala.

Just today it was confirmed Cadillac would have it's DTS/STS replacement be on a extended Sigma, and there is hope for a Zeta Buick sedan, check it out on Motor Trend.

And no Mr. Moody, I don't like hybrids, and i won't have to ever drive one.

Ok, this is way out of line.

Nobody NEEDS 95% of the cars for sale today. Nobody NEEDS a 50" LCD TV, nobody NEEDS a superfast computer, nobody NEEDS a huge house with 5 bedrooms, nobody NEEDS $500 sunglasses, nobody NEEDS to take an airplane ride to Hawaii for a week. Should I keep going?

America is about individual freedoms. No, driving a 6L full size sedan is not in the Bill of Rights, but it is NOT American for the government to be telling people how to spend their money, determine for them which cars they want to buy etc. And if we're going by NEEDS here, maybe we should have the government shut down all the airlines, all airline companies (lot of greenhouse gas created there), all car companies (except allow Toyota to make the Prius and that is the only car people can drive), probably shut down the cable companies, maybe ABC, NBC, CBS, HBO (people get fat watching too much TV, plus producing a TV show or a movie uses a lot of energy and creates a lot of greenhouse gas). Or maybe we should bulldoze all suburban areas, and move everyone into high-rise apartments near public transportation (after all, big houses use lots of power and creates greenhouse gasses, and driving to those houses creates a lot of greenhouse gas) and on and on and on and on we can go.

That's what's so scary about what's happening today. The government gonna tell us how we are to live our lives? No freakin thanks. If I was interested in that, we'd be happy to go to China, or bring back the Soviet Union. On second thought, China might actually have more freedom of choice than the US shortly....

I'd bet that Obama and his ilk think that the book 1984 had a happy ending.

jerome81, your right,

As Thomas Jefferson had said, "A government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have...The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

@firstwagon - I'm on board with your view about profits. The G8 is a pretty neat car for the money. But it's not a car a company makes to regain profitability.

FWIW, I get a really good laugh at the chicken littles. Performance vehicles aren't going away. They didn't in the 70s and 80s and they're not going to in the teens either. Take a deep breath.

Would it have done better if it had a familiar name like “Grand Prix”? I think so. Besides marketing, I can’t think of why this car was such a flop. But it was.

"The truth is we just don't need a car that essentially carries four passengers and uses a 6-liter V8 to do it. "

Huh? Bite your tongue. You call yourself an auto enthusiast?

Yeah, nobody NEEDS a car with a 6 liter V8, but it sure is fun. And that is the difference between living and merely existing. This is America - we like to work hard and live large. Obama's socialist agenda is trying to change that, but that's a story for another day.

"It's not your place, of the government's to tell me what I should or should not drive."

Yep - couldn't agree more. We don't need this car but I sure do WANT one - Brian Moody

"1. Absolutely no marketing support, you can't sell a car no one knows about."

I dont agree with that. The G8 was heavily adverstised in print and on the net. There were even TV commercials in the first couple months of the launch, especially during the NCAA tournament. The print ads were constant.

$10 gas clearly killed all the European performance cars. They don't make anything with more than a wheezy 4 cylinder for that market right?

Brian Moody,

Now that's sure a typical Soviet Monica comment. Yes, I'm right down the street a few blocks from the Water Gardens.

I have however a suggestion for you Santa Monica lefties. You worry about what YOU need or want and WE will worry about what WE need or want. Got that? Good.

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=7000226&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,532841,00.html#

@stovt - yeah Europe's totally devoid of fun cars. It's so sad how they don't make any exciting cars in Europe. ;)

"I dont agree with that. The G8 was heavily adverstised in print and on the net. There were even TV commercials in the first couple months of the launch, especially during the NCAA tournament. The print ads were constant."

True, for the first few months and since it's been pretty much word of mouth.

04gtpws6 - They really said the G8 GXP is the best car on the road? Better than an M3 or M5? What? I think that crew needs to leave off the happy-weed.

The G8 GXP is a great car, the G8 GT is almost as good for a lot less and the G8... well... is neither. This whole saga is just making me irritated and sad.

I didn't take Brian's "nobody needs..." comment to mean the government should ban V8s.

After a big stock market crash, people go back to buying what they think they need instead of what they'd love to have. You do the math.

anyone who wanted a 6 liter v8 wud have gotten a c63 amg instead. true it costs more but its def worth what it is. unlike this car..,

"@stovt - yeah Europe's totally devoid of fun cars. It's so sad how they don't make any exciting cars in Europe. ;)"

Thats irrelevant to the US market. They have been dealing with high prices for decades over there and the super rich can always afford to gas up an AMG. Besides, in Europe they are not regulating what is built, they use high prices to drive demand for smaller, more efficient vehicles. Thats precisely what the US wont do. You didnt notice that "minor" difference? The results will be different as well and you will see less V8s and powerful cars here.

"It's not your place, of the government's to tell me what I should or should not drive."

Yep - couldn't agree more. We don't need this car but I sure do WANT one - Brian Moody

I do need a 6L V8 car, or at least something with at least 300 hp. Why? Because if I had to drive a Prius I would commit suicide.

m_thrizzle - what about the 290 hp in a Maxima? Is that just not enough? Or 263 (I think) in a Mazdaspeed 3? (:

What's really sad is: 1) GM only gets 360 HP out of 6 liters, and 2) the G8 is a huge improvement in looks for Pontiac but it still looks like a redneck car.

Thank you cw910 for proving that you know nothing about GM engines. Moving on.

this car would sell awesome if it got 22/30 mpg.
That's probably easy to do. Just put a diesel in it.

Well stated, jerome81.

I heard a great line a few weeks back:

When most people read the book 1984, they were concerned. But when Obama read it, he took notes!

"A government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have...The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

Yes, trot out the ole "'Mericans don't want it none."

Yep, I'm so worried about my liberty and my so afraid of the big government Clinton-Bush-Obama have constructed. Oh wait, that doesn't bother me so much as the fact people vote for it and want it.

You can buy some amazing cars in Europe that manus won't even attempt here as they fear the average joe. so while the Jetta TDI Wagon makes up 80% of the SportWagen sales VW is still reluctant to bring the GTD to these shores. BMW's sales leaders in Europe - the 320d, 330d and 520/30d haven't been allowed here for fear of the dreaded 4 cylinder curse (not sure what the excuse is for the 30d).

Too tired to go on a rant...

From pontiac.com: 6.0 L, 361 HP. How lame.

“From pontiac.com: 6.0 L, 361 HP. How lame.” - cw910

From Pontiac.com: TQ = 385
From R&T: Quarter Mile = 13.5 at 104.9 A6
From R&T: BMW 335i Quarter Mile = 13.5 at 104.5 M6
From R&T: BMW 335i MSRP in 2007 = $44K
[ Equipped roughly as my G8 GT, MSRP = $34,110
Sport Pkg, Premium Pkg & sunroof for each ]

One can certainly argue intangibles and personal preference regarding such attributes as interior & exterior styling [ personally, I prefer the G8’s styling to the current BMW 3 or 5 sedans ] and the value of high specific output from a motor.

And I have certainly been impressed with the BMW 335’s dynamics. I do respect the brand. I drove more than one 335i before buying the G8.

The 335 likely will return better fuel mileage than the G8 GT.

Weight: The BMW 5 series V8 [ the 550i ] weighs almost exactly the same as a G8 GT. Is the BMW overweight?

BMW 5 = G8 GT competition?
Basically, I see the G8 GT as providing a very large portion of the dynamic capabilities & related ‘goodness’ of the 550 on the Infiniti M45 – at a relatively small portion of the price.

Since I drove a $50K+ MSRP car immediately before buying my G8 GT, one could argue that I could afford a BMW 5. Did I ‘cross shop’ the G8 GT and the 550i? Not exactly – as mentioned, I drove the 335i & I sat for several minutes in a 5 at the dealer’s showroom - specifically scrutinizing the materials, fit, finish, ergonomics & design. While I could probably live with the 335’s interior, and the 5’s quality is immediately evident, several aspects of the 5 series interior I personally find really jarring & annoying.

Anyone who really does want ALL that the 550 or M45 offers ( I freely admit that the M45 has a ‘nicer’ interior, for example, than the G8’s ) must pay BMW or Infiniti prices. This seems fair to me.

If you want ( as I do ) the acceleration, handling, steering feel, braking and related dynamic aspects – in a package with comfortable & supportive seating for 4 adults – but do not also require ( or wish to pay for ) a plethora ( ? ) of luxury, amenities & brand recognition . . . well the G8 GT fills the bill.

For me.

- Ray

Careful rayainsw, remember: "If you argue with an idiot, people might not be able to tell who is who"!

The G8 is: 15, 18, 24 for mpg according to the EPA
The 335i auto is: 17, 20, 26 from the same place

Gee, your right up looks rather similar to the one I posted on the other thread about whether the G8 was worth saving. I think that means we're both right.

If a six-speed manual was available on the GT I'd put it on my daily driver/work beatershort list regardless of its orphan status- I especially like the fact that it is available without a hole in the roof. That said, I'm relatively certain that a stick wouldn't have sold in sufficient numbers to justify offering it as an option.

roadburner - I've seen that the reason there is no stick for the GT is the active fuel management system. I have no idea why, but that is what I've seen. That is why the GXP has the stick, but no AFM.

Sadly, you are probably right anyway that the stick wouldn't have sold enough. At least it is a really good auto tranny.

No M6 trans.

The initial announcement from GM
[ still on line at:
http://www.media.gm.com/us/gm/en/news/events/autoshows/07chicago/brands/pontiac/index.html
]
shows that a M6 trans was to be available...

I am still a bit surprised that the G8 was never
available [ like the Camaro SS is ]
with a non-AFM version of the 6.0L...