2008 BMW 135i: Don't Drink and Drive

same deal with VW's. If you extend their arm rests all the way the 2nd cupholder becomes useless.

Europeans don't drink and drive. Hence, you're asking them to design something that they themselves never use. Since they don't have any point of reference with respect to how these things are used, this is what you end up with.

Sort of like women's clothing designed by a typical straight male.

Put the cup in the first cupholder, put the phone in the second cup holder. Problem solved?

I have the same problem with my A4, the second cupholder is totally useless when the armrest is down. Not a big deal unless you have two people with drinks, and then it becomes annoying. My '03 Jetta had the same problem, apparently the Germans can't quite figure out cupholers.

European People don't drink while driving - We Do.

I can see how they would make this mistake on a lot of their cars, but the two built in the US both have crappy cupholders, especially the Z4.

Here's a novel solution: slow down, enjoy life, and savor a beverage in the proper venue. Act civilized! We like to think of ourselves as one of the richest, most advanced societies in the world but we don't even grasp the concept of such luxuries as real cups, tables, and a meal or break with friends. And when you're ready to drive, drive and don't distract yourself with any other nonsense. Why is this such a difficult concept for people?

Europeans don't drink quarts of sodas with their meal. They don't eat in their car either.
If you buy a European car you need to act like a European. If not, the car design will force you. The cupholder in the photo is not a mistake of design. It is the cultural suppression of Americans by bully type European manufacturers... It's a cup folder not holder because Germans want so suppress Americans from their drinking delights.

I never use my cupholders so I could care less about cupholder related complaints. In fact I'd be happy to just have like 1 decent one in my car and that's it.

Is that leather that I see? With a SODA?

Yeah, I agree its because they don't drink and drive. Same with how the AC is horrible at cooling, yet heats like a champ.

They don't have such a jumbo size cup in Europe

I drive the '09 135i, and on the rare occasions requiring BOTH cupholders - I simply drive with the armrest lifted all the way back and out of the way - no problemo whatsoever; small sacrifice when choosing a sports-car over an SUV/minivan ;-)

you should always use the plastic top in case of spillage when transporting beverages

i used to have a '91 three series and that thing didnt have cup holders at all. my friend has a '98 five series and hers has these two cheap slide out cup holders that dont even work. and my dad had like a '90s mercedes and the only cup holders to be found were slightly indented into the inside of the glovebox door

"Can somebody please explain to me how the big brains at BMW can do suspension, steering and brakes so well and still screw up something as simple as a useful cupholder."

Well it's not a screw-up. Non-alcoholic beverages in Europe rarely exceed 8 ounces. So the cupholders can hold a cup of coffee or a soda can. When I was with my 335i in Germany, it had no problem accommodating Euro-sized water bottles. Ironically that's probably one of the few times I've ever had a beverage in my car. Cupholders are actually an option in Euro-market BMWs.

"Hard to believe, isn't it? The same company that designed and built the astonishingly good turbocharged inline six cylinder engine in our long-term 2008 BMW 135i also created the stupidity above."

It's not hard to believe. Buy an American or American-designed Japanese car if you want big cupholders. I know I don't use and don't want them in my German car, and I've made it a point to remind BMW of that every time I get a chance to chat with them. Both hands on the wheel!

That was one of the reasons (albeit a small one) that I opted for the 2009 iDrive. The removeable cupholder that is automatically added to replace the one deleted in the center console by the iDrive is probably the most perfect cupholder ever made by BMW. Interestingly, it can be added as a third cupholder on any 1er. You already went for the DME tune...

I do use the cupholders in my 325i, but in the opposite manner that you have it -- junk in the second cupholder underneath the armrest and small drink in the front cupholder. Works like a charm. I only drink when I'm on a long interstate slog.

Yet another example of how we can learn from a country that is older and wiser than us. Cars are for driving not having a 3 course meal. Of course coffee and soda diversions are the least dangerous of poor American driving habits. Add to that a cup of Java, a cell phone conversation, shaving, reading the paper, texting, doing your nails, brushing your hair and eating that Big Mac.

No wonder Europeans live longer.

From what I gather (and based on a similar cupholder location in my VW) the issus isn't the diameter of the cupholder not accomodating a big gulp, it's the overhang of the armrest. In my car a waterbottle in the 2nd cupholder is difficult to use, my passengers typicaly use the cupholder located behind the console intended for backseat users. And is it really so horribly uncivilized to want a bottle of water during a 45 minute commute in 90 degree weather?

My wife's 330Ci has the same kind of cupholders, but like another poster said we just lift the armrest if we have 2 drinks. My Grand Cherokee has pretty small cup holders as well, but I am pretty strict about drinks in it, no colored liquids/soda, so only water bottles.

I agree with the Germans - you shouldn't drink and drive, and thus cupholders are irrelevant. I like the German way of thinking: driving is serious business, and should demand your undivided attention. You shouldn't drink and drive, eat and drive, text and drive, watch movies and drive, read the newspaper and drive, fix your hair and drive. Just drive! If everyone did that and paid attention, there would be much fewer crashes, and less traffic.

Are the Germans wrong with this line of thinking? I don't think they are.

I think the point is that if BMW is going to bother to do it, then they should spend an extra 5 minutes and do it right.

That's great that Europeans don't use or need cup holders. I agree with that sentiment and rarely, if ever, use mine. But if you want to come into the American market, and you recognize the demand for a cupholder - If you wish to appeal to more buyers buy adding that option to your interior design - then do it correctly so that it has maximum usefulness.

And when I use my cupholder (usually a passenger is using it), I like to use the one farthest away from the shifter so that I don't accidentally bump it when rowing the gears. So I see no problem with Scott putting his cup there and expecting it to still be accessible.

I am a proud BMW owner but I have to agree that the cup holders in my 330i are poorly designed. To suggest that a manufacturer should not tailor its features for one of their largest markets is absurd. The cup holders are poorly designed period, but that does not mean I love my 330 any less. Not all Americans drink 3 dollar bottled water and Skinny Cafe Lattes with foam.

One has to remember BMW and MB dont respond to customer input, they dictate what the customer wants and needs. the initial iDrive is a perfect example. It doesn't matter if Americans want usable cupholders, BMW says you dont need them and shouldn't be drinking in the car and thus gives you an under-engineered solution that is a mere afterthought. While its true that Euro tastes are different the bottom line is the US is a major market for BMW and Americans desires should be accomodated.

"While its true that Euro tastes are different the bottom line is the US is a major market for BMW and Americans desires should be accomodated[sic]."

I thought that was Gubmint Motors' mission statement.

"While its true that Euro tastes are different the bottom line is the US is a major market for BMW and Americans desires should be accomodated. "

What an incredibly egocentric view. This is a GERMAN car. Designed and built in Germany and exported to the US. If you want an American car, buy one. I and many others like German cars because they're GERMAN. Cupholders are but one trivial detail of course, but if I wanted a car built for "American desires" then I'd have a much fatter ass and I'd buy an American car.

"One has to remember BMW and MB dont respond to customer input, they dictate what the customer wants and needs."

That's ridiculous and again shows your pro-domestic bias. I'm a customer that has been fortunate enough to participate in many BMW-related events including consumer focus groups. MY customer input has been to include cupholders but all I care that they hold is a standard-sized beverage, which they all do, so I guess they're listening to me, a customer.

A popular modification on the BMW forums is to actually remove the US-spec cupholders for the standard European configuration of none at all.

"What an incredibly egocentric view. This is a GERMAN car. Designed and built in Germany and exported to the US. If you want an American car, buy one. I and many others like German cars because they're GERMAN."

Precisely.

"Cupholders are but one trivial detail of course, but if I wanted a car built for "American desires" then I'd have a much fatter ass and I'd buy an American car."

Now that is a depressing thought...;)
Speaking of "American desires", I once heard a European automotive engineer(not a German, by the way) give a great example of the difference between European and American drivers:
"Europeans don't care if the brakes squeal, just as long as they stop the car.
Americans don't care if the brakes stop the car, just as long as they don't squeal."

Arguments about Germans, their cars or the apparent stupidity of the 1's cup-holder's locations aside, really, if you are driving a tuned 135 and can keep the fluids in the cup from sloshing all over the interior of the cabin, you are doing it wrong.

On the occasions where I use my 135's cup-holders, it is to hold a sealed drink or to hold one that is completely empty. Anything else results in a mess because 300/300+ is just that much fun.

Why are we still hearing gripes about drinks in BMWs? Get over it. BMW has made it clear if you want cupholders in a car, go get a Sequoia.

"Why are we still hearing gripes about drinks in BMWs?"

A lot of it is sour grapes/envy talking.

I think the egocentric view is that of Mercedes and BMW or any carmaker who thinks that the market must bow down to what they believe. Maybe this snobbish attitude that Europeans have is why Toyota redefined the luxury car market in America in the first year Lexus was introduced. The philosophy was simple when you think about it. If you're going to sell a luxury car in America find out what Americans want and expect in the car, build it and deliver on your promises. The LS400 was born. Lexus' cars will cruise just as comfortably at triple digit speeds and has all of the high tech goodies as anything from MB or BMW and you have a place to put your Big Gulp.

"Lexus' cars will cruise just as comfortably at triple digit speeds and has all of the high tech goodies as anything from MB or BMW and you have a place to put your Big Gulp."

Not to mention all the HPDEs that the Lexus Owners Club puts on...;)

What are you doing stinking up your car with crap from Quiznos anyway?

Eat in a restaurant, drive in a car.

If you really insist, you can install a third cupholder that hangs off the console to the right (it is standard in 1ers equipped with iDrive, because one of the other cupholders is removed to make way for the iDrive controller.)

Sorry Scotty, the angry mob didn't seem to jump on the bandwagon for this one.

@allthingshonda

People don't buy the 1 series looking for a bland sedan like an ES350 or IS350. Different markets.

"Lexus' cars will cruise just as comfortably at triple digit speeds and has all of the high tech goodies as anything from MB or BMW and you have a place to put your Big Gulp."

But that's not the point. They also tend to be insipidly boring cars. Dull control inputs all around, with the exception of the IS that just has an artificiality to its handling and feels slower than it is because Lexus dampens out anything that could be mistaken for "fun". And VDIM pretty much just plain sucks.

I have a lot of respect for Lexus and the success the brand has had in the marketplace appealing to a new luxury demographic (kicking Acura and Infinti's butts in particular). However, the Lexus brand only exists in the US and was just introduced in Japan. Mercedes and BMW are globally recognized and continue to be extraordinarily successful brands that have expanded their portfolios to appeal to a far broader audience than they had in the early 1990's. Lexus took a big piece of the pie and put the Germans on notice, but while Lexus grew so did they.

Bimmerjay, Lexus does not appeal "to a new luxury demographic". There is a reason why there are many Benzes and Bimmers on the preowned lot of Lexus dealers, they are marketed to the same demographic, people who have the money to buy them. Like it or not the reality is that Lexus sells more cars than MB or BMW because in the long run they are easier to live with. All car enthusiast should and must acknowledge that BMW and MB bulids great performance cars but in everyday use they are not easy to live with. Extremely expensive to maintain and repair, cryptic controls have a long learning curve, teutonic suspensions that don't feel good on rough city streets, weak A/C etc.

Since most of us spend the majority of time behind the wheel going to and from work in daily traffic or shuttling the kids around then you can see why Lexus is the sales leader. Suspension soaks up manhole cover potholes with ease, low maintenance and dependabilty of a Camry, well designed easy to understand cabin, great HVAC, kick ass sound system etc. If my daily commute involved me blasting down the PCH then I would choose a Bimmer. Unfortunately on a good day I spend most of my time topped out at 40 mph on I-10 with thousands of other daily commuters and thats when I appreciate somewhere to put my travel mug filled with coffee.

To end my little rant I will just say that I appreciate that when you are blasting down the Autobahn at 130 mph or enjoying a drive through the black forest you can't sip on a Big Gulp. I wish I knew how that felt. I however live in the good ole US of A. The speed limit is 70 and with traffic thats a joke. I don't think it is asking to much for BMW, MB or VW to reverse engineer a cupholder out of a Honda Accord and stick it in their cars since we are their largest market. If the Germans and the rest of the world don't need it then don't use it. And while they're at it the temperature here tends to get above 75 on a regular basis so could they also throw in a few more BTUs for the Air Conditioning.

"Lexus does not appeal "to a new luxury demographic"."

Yes it does- young and middle aged people who want a cushy Cadillac ride without the blue hair stigma.

"Like it or not the reality is that Lexus sells more cars than MB or BMW because in the long run they are easier to live with."

Wrong. BMW sells more automobiles than Lexus.
Lexus sells more trucks than BMW. I find that appropriate.

"All car enthusiast[sic] should and must acknowledge that BMW and MB bulids[sic] great performance cars but in everyday use they are not easy to live with. Extremely expensive to maintain and repair, cryptic controls have a long learning curve, teutonic[sic] suspensions that don't feel good on rough city streets, weak A/C etc."

Just how many BMWs have you lived wit or owned? Let me take a wild guess... Zero? I know, you've actually sat in a couple- and I bet you've read a whole lot of articles about them...

"Since most of us spend the majority of time behind the wheel going to and from work in daily traffic or shuttling the kids around then you can see why Lexus is the sales leader."

Except that it isn't. See above.

"Suspension soaks up manhole cover potholes with ease, low maintenance and dependabilty[sic] of a Camry, well designed easy to understand cabin, great HVAC, kick ass sound system etc. If my daily commute involved me blasting down the PCH then I would choose a Bimmer."

A quiet ride coupled with a soft suspension and a big cupholder is your idea of automotive nirvana. Got it.

"Unfortunately on a good day I spend most of my time topped out at 40 mph on I-10 with thousands of other daily commuters and thats[sic] when I appreciate somewhere to put my travel mug filled with coffee."

If I were you I'd move. It's a rare day when I don't see 80+ and/or carve up a twisty two lane road.

"The speed limit is 70 and with traffic thats[sic] a joke. I don't think it is asking to[sic] much for BMW, MB or VW to reverse engineer a cupholder out of a Honda Accord and stick it in their cars since we are their largest market. If the Germans and the rest of the world don't need it then don't use it. And while they're at it the temperature here tends to get above 75 on a regular basis so could they also throw in a few more BTUs for the Air Conditioning.

Wait a minute, I thought you were blissfully happy driving a softly sprung Lexus with one hand, gulping coffee, and listening to a "kick-ass" ICE system. If so, why do you even care what features the Germans choose to include or exclude? Don't get me wrong, I think Lexus makes fine cars for the well-heeled non-enthusiast vehicle operator(the IS-F excepted), and I often recommend them to people who want a comfortable cruiser. However, if you want an engaging drive you have to look elsewhere. And many drivers do.

lol, roadburner seems to have covered most of the bases so I'll just address this quote, allthingshonda:

"All car enthusiast should and must acknowledge that BMW and MB bulids great performance cars but in everyday use they are not easy to live with. Extremely expensive to maintain and repair, cryptic controls have a long learning curve, teutonic suspensions that don't feel good on rough city streets, weak A/C etc."

Exaggerate much? $50k+ luxury cars that are "not easy to live with"?? I'll echo roadburner's sentiments and assume you've never actually owned one. My daily commuter is a 6-speed manual 335i with the sport package, 19" wheels and Michelin Pilot PS2 runflats. I regularly get compliments on the car's smooth, quiet ride (most recently from my almost 60 y/o parents), it has a lovely 13-speaker Logic7 surround audio system, pretty much every creature comfort imaginable including the best 12-way seats with 4-way lumbar on a sub-$70K car... wait this thing is hard to live with on a daily basis?? Are you kidding me??

Expensive to maintain? Up through 50k miles it's completely free, and after that it's going to be comparable to any other car in its price class. Not to mention BMW owners get top notch resale value and one of the better CPO programs. No high-end car - even a Lexus - is going to be cheap to fix out of warranty. A friend of mine with a '99 LS400 had problems with the electroluminescent gauges, the OEM parts alone were just over $1000 to fix. An air suspension level sensor problem was about $700 - luckily that was fixed for free since it was a repeat problem from when the car was under warranty. No high-end car is going to be immune to potentially expensive repairs down the road, period. Oh, and my "trouble-prone" German car has given me precisely 0 problems, so it's off to a pretty good start so far in the 2 years I've had it.

Not only can the Germans not design cupholders, but they (at least BMW) aren't very good at maximizing interior storage space. It's more about design than storage space. On the plus side, they can make a car fit a tall person like myself. Just because I drive a German car doesn't mean I should not be able to have a drink along for when I'm sitting still in traffic, nor should I not be able to carry a drink for when I get to the office or whatever destination.

Having owned 2 BMWs with a 2nd cupholder as "usable" as the 135's, I have to say it's not a deal breaker, but it keeps the car from being perfect. Being a great driver's car is no excuse for ignoring the small details (especially polarized sunglasses not working with the current radio displays).

"Being a great driver's car is no excuse for ignoring the small details (especially polarized sunglasses not working with the current radio displays)."

That's the type of problem that I think Munich SHOULD address- along with refitting oil dipsticks to their engines.