2009 Dodge Challenger R/T: Hill Start Assist

That's cool about the grade logic. If I'm not mistaken, BMW's hill-start assist doesn't work in reverse.

-JS

The same can be found on the 2008+ Subaru STI, it's very handy but then the STI has a handbrake as well.

I'm pretty sure the reverse way worked in the 2008 Cooper S I had, so I imagine it would be the same in current BMW's.

@SadButTrue Incorrect - hill start assist thing works great in reverse on my E90. I'd be missing a few front bumper pieces if not...

Huh, interesting. I sit corrected. I might take the 135 out in a second to verify though.

@Josh-

You are mistaken my friend, shaddai is right. BMW's system also works in reverse when you're pointing downhill. It is similar in that it disengages after 2 seconds. BMW doesn't have the 7% grade requirement though - it will prevent the car from rolling back regardless of the slope.

I never learned the handbrake trick. By the time I got around to trying it out a couple times, I was so good at starting on a hill without it that there was no real point in learning it.

I've never had to use the handbrake as I'm pretty good at avoiding rollback, even on some of the crazy local hills. Still, the hill assist looks pretty useful.

handbrakes? hill start assist? heel-and-toe hill starts are the way to go. works in any car with a gas pedal and a brake pedal, which i think is most of them.

Some cars don't have pedals that allow heel and toeing, and not everyone can heel and toe.

@bimmerjay - I've noticed on a VERY slight incline the hill start assist does not assist. We're talking maybe 5 degrees max, more like 2. My driveway is a perfect example of this.

I've noticed that once you get used to these, you can get thrown off in situations where the car thinks it doesn't need HSA, but you think it does. Take a flat road, put 2x4"s in front of the front and back wheels (example, I used a bumpy road that lined up perfectly with the wheels, by accident) and go part ways up. Then let off the brake. The car will actually go backwards. The car itself is level (so the HSA is off) but the wheels are on unlevel ground, so it rolls backwards. Poorly explained, I know.

I hate the freaking hill assist. My problem with it is it doesn't disengage as soon as the clutch engages. There are times when you are waiting for traffic to clear and you don't have time to wait the two or three seconds for the brakes to disengage. Or your are waiting for a clearing and you see one you let off the brakes, let out the clutch and give it gas and the freaking engine dies because the brakes didn't release. If you can't drive a stick you shouldn't buy one.

The hill assist can be turned off in the EVIC if you don't like it.

"I hate the freaking hill assist. My problem with it is it doesn't disengage as soon as the clutch engages."

If the Challenger doesn't release the brakes for the 2-3 seconds every time that's pretty crappy. BMW's system is pretty much invisible. The split-second the car senses you will start moving forward the brakes are released. So I'll be on a ridiculous 15% grade in San Francisco, looking up at the sky (so the system has to engage the brakes HARD to hold the car), and I can gently release the clutch and feel the brakes release at the moment forward movement begins.

^Pretty cool - that's the way to have an HSA feature, where it's not intrusive.

@bimmerjay: the Challenger's system also releases as soon as you move forward, and it's not intrusive. The 2-3 seconds only comes into play if you do nothing. You've got that much time to get you shift together, but if you continue to do nothing it figures you WANT to roll back and releases.

I think that technology like this is cool, but I also think that it will lead to worse driving habits. If you can't drive a stick properly then you shouldn't really be regularly driving one on public roads. What happens to a driver who only learned to drive stick in a vehicle with HSA when they get into a vehicle that doesn't have it? They most likely end up rolling backwards into something, perhaps the impatient driver behind then with an automatic that pulled up to within inches of the rear bumper at the light(something that irritates me greatly). I learned to drive stick in an old pickup which didn't have a handbrake, so it forced me to learn how to drive it properly without using any crutches, electronic or otherwise. Making use of an available handbrake is a good solution, but I view HSA as the car doing it for you, which defeats the purpose of buying a manual trans IMO.

Technology is great, but there is no substitute for proper driver training and paying attention.

Question:
Whenever I start a manual transmission car in a driveway, I start the vehicle in first gear, hold the clutch in and let gravity roll me out into the street. (The car is cranking and rolling back at the same time.) Or if the driveway is level, I use reverse and shift back into first while the car is still moving backwards (cluth in, of course) When I hit the street, I just let the clutch out and take off. Is this possible with HSA?

The clutch hold is on many cars - BMWs, Coopers, Subarus.

My dad wouldn't let me drive stick on public roads until I could pull away from our 40 degree driveway without rolling back OR using the ebrake. Fun challenge.

I agree with the comments that people should know how to drive before being able to use electronic helpers. It makes perfect sense to me that you know how to drive and work a vehicle before you get out on the road. However, not eveyrone else thinks that way.

EVIC is an option that is bundled with the electronics package. No electronics, packace no EVIC.

I prefer and enjoy manual transmissions. I gather that all of you do, too. And, like you, I don't want to see them go away. But the tide is turning against them every day. Sales continue to decline, and they're offered on fewer and fewer models. The G8 should have had one from the start, like its Commodore cousin, but here it's only available on the GXP as an extra-cost option.

Sure, it'd be nice if everyone could heel and toe, rev match to perfection and execute a flawless hill start before they get their driver's license. But these skills aren't strictly necessary to use and enjoy a manual and and insisting on them sets an unrealistic standard.

I say "enough of this elitist crud, already." But if the purists continue to demand that these ARE, in fact, the minimum standards, then the manual is doomed for you and me because sales will continue to drop and manufacturers will suspend development.

We should embrace HSA, Nissan's Synchro-rev match and anything else that makes driving a manual a more attractive choice for the average person, especially if, like these examples, they don't get in the way of the way of the more-skilled practitioners.

Otherwise, the best we'll be able to get is the dreaded "flappy paddle" gearbox. Clarkson may be full of hot air a lot of the time, but he's bang-on on that front.

If it didn't get in the way I would have no problem with it. It gets in the way too often. On the Challenger the brakes won't release until a set time has passed. It doesn't release when the clutch starts engaging. Therefore you have to wait on it.

Must be something wrong, then. I notice no such thing on this car. All of the uphill drive-offs I've tried have been unimpeded.

Dan,
You make a valid point with respect to "this elitist crud" and the relative sales volumes of vehicles with manual transmissions. Perhaps this sort of technology will help to remove some of the fears that people have about driving a manual transmission and therefore will extend the viability of this as an option.

I find it interesting that so many people are interested in improving fuel economy, yet so few realize that the easiest way to get better mileage is to choose a manual trans over an automatic.

And I couldn't agree more wrt the G8 and its lack of a manual option. I think that GM must have figured that AFM was the way to go there and therefore didn't offer the manual except in the GXP, which they must have figured would be the choice of true enthusiasts. I personally think that they missed the boat on that one.