2008 Cadillac CTS: MPG, Squeaks and the Importance of Demographics

negative. gm has 0% for 60 months on 09 cts's in my area right now. i'd just buy new.

Nope - not interested.

I was interested in the Mustang GT project car though - I'd like to have that in my driveway. That car looked and sounded great. What did it ultimately sell for?

Maybe some of the squeaks and rattles have wained with the change of seasons? I've noticed over the years that some squeaks/rattles come and go depending on things like temp and humidity level.

"The whole time she was in the car she was praising what she perceived as the luxury and comfort of our Caddy.

So, GM pretty much nailed that demographic. But then, I guess you knew that. "

Cadillac was targeting a younger demographic with the CTS - they offer the DTS for the older crowd. I'm in my 30's and I find the CTS appealing - that either makes me strange, or Cadillac did their homework in offering what a successful 30-something wants in a luxury car.

I have noticed quite a lot of senior citizens driving CTS', but less of a percentage than the DTS or STS by a long shot. But not as young of a crowd as the Escalade. Still, it doesn't bother me that senior citizens may happen to like the same car I like. Regardless, I wouldn't consider the CTS an old person's car.

I don't think Cadillac as a brand is nearly as senior citizen prone as it once was. I see far more Lexuses these days driven by senior citizens. Especially the ES and LS - those seem to be piloted by senior citizens just as much as a Buick Century or LeSabre, which is to say about 80%.

I would argue that the CTS wasn't aimed anywhere near the 80+ 'blue hair' crowd, that's the STS/DTS demographic.

The base CTS was trying to pick up some of the 40-60 year old Lexus/Infiniti/Mercedes E-class crowd, which I think it has done quite well. The CTS-V has been going after the BMW/Audi S6/AMG Mercedes target, but with less success I suspect.

The inability to comfortably fit in 3 sets of golf clubs is odd. That's a definite need for the target demo and a pretty short sighted miss for GM.

The DTS/STS is fail.

I'm skeptical of claims that golf clubs can't be fit in. I mean, we've heard countless complaints about the Camaro's submarine hatch trunk lid and how you'd never be able to fit golf clubs in, yet as the following video clearly proves, it isn't difficult at all:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16287&highlight=golf+clubs

There is even room to spare. So I find it a little hard to believe that a Cadillac with a bigger trunk and bigger opening couldn't fit three bags in.

My favorite are the CTSs with the carriage top... why?!

So, stovt001, you're saying that Reed is lying about the golf clubs? And you're proof is that somebody else fit 2 bags in a Camaro? Huh?

cx7lover--Have you ridden in a DTS/STS, or are you just armchair quarterbacking?

My father has a Deville/DTS and it's just fine for cruising highways. It may look frumpy and dynamically challenged, but there's no denying that it accomplishes it's mission as a rolling barcalounger.

If she thought the CTS was nice you should have shown her an ES350. Everyone I see piloting that car has grey hair. Surprisingly I have seen a lot of seniors (as well as 40 somethings) driving CTS'. I guess being old doesn't mean you cant appreciate styling.

"So, stovt001, you're saying that Reed is lying about the golf clubs? And you're proof is that somebody else fit 2 bags in a Camaro? Huh?"

People that just read about cars online like to think that they know everything there is to know about them. It makes them feel smart.

Stovt001, take a look at IL's post back in October.

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/2008/10/2008-cadillac-cts-putting-golf-clubs-in-the-trunk.html#more

The Camaro video was impressive. I still haven't seen one on the road though. It would be an awesome sight to see.

mlh, I wouldn't say calling him a liar, but different people have different standards as to what being able to fit a golf bag in means. Some people will say if you can't set it straight in without angling it, it doesn't fit. And looking back, he only said you can't fit them lengthwise. Well, ok, but you can probably fit them width-wise. That's what I'm skeptical about. Some people have oddly narrow standards.

And as discussed in DCJ's post above, they can't fit "perfectly" width-wise, but they didn't mention how diagonal they have to be. All I'm saying is, as far as we know there probably is a way to fit three bags, and it probably isn't very difficult. There is a difference between inconvenience and impossible.

and finally, isellcars00, I'm definitely not saying I know everything about a particular car because I read it online. The Camaro example is simply to illustrate a situation where every last person swore up and down that it was impossible to fit a golf bag in the trunk (based on what they read on the internet, of course) and someone set out to actually try it. He didn't limit himself to such silly requirements as "must go in perfectly straight", "must go in lengthwise", or "must go in perfectly width-wise". He just proved they do fit. So actually, I agree with your point that you can't take everything you read on the internet as gospel. Sometimes you have to try it yourself. That was precisely my point with the post.

Still like the CTS. That car impressed me. It's obviously way overpriced new. 30k used? Lower... it's from a manufacturer that's about to go out of business.

I still say you guys are on serious crack when it comes to the value of used cars. You still list my used 335i CPO for 34k. I paid 26.5k for it 3 months ago and it's a CPO.

"As for the rattles and squeaks, maybe I'm losing my hearing. Or maybe a lot of the squeaks were the creaking of the leather."

Try deploying the Nav screen: http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/2009/04/2008-cadillac-cts-navigation-screen-deployment.html

" Lower... it's from a manufacturer that's about to go out of business. "

Not accurate or relevant. Then again, I shouldn't be surprised. You never actually explained how you came to the determination that the CTS is way overpriced. The fact that its a Cadillac is not good justification. Sales of the car thus far would indicate the buying public does not find it overpriced. It outsells the Genesis, G37 sedan, TL, etc.

"By blueguydotcom on May 26, 2009 8:58 PM
Still like the CTS. That car impressed me. It's obviously way overpriced new. 30k used? Lower... it's from a manufacturer that's about to go out of business. "

That's an ignorant comment. GM will file for bankrupty protection. It will NOT go out of business. Big difference. Care to wager on this?

The good news for me is if there are more ignorant people like you out there, there's more of a chance of me landing a great deal on a 2010 CTS-V.

I still surprises me that Edmunds.com readers don't know the difference between Ch. 11 and Ch. 7. I would expect the general population to be ignorant about such matters, but Edmunds and most others have hashed out the differences many times over now. You'd think it would be even clearer now that Chrysler is going through the same process but obviously not liquidated. There will technically be a new corporate entity, but that's not at all the same as going out of business.

1487, I like the CTS. It's got a great driving position, nice ride, good in corners, good power, nice materials. The interior's a bit cramped but otherwise I enjoyed my time in it. If I were 10-20 years older I might have considered it. BUT, for the price I felt the performance wasn't up to what I want. For my money, if a new BMW 328 ZSP is worth about 34k (ED) to me, then a new Cadillac CTS 3.6 DI that isn't as engaging to drive is worth about 29-30k to me. That's personal valuation. The G37, in my eyes, isn't worth more than that. I really think I'd be willing to pay more for the CTS than the G37. A new A4 probably too. Heck, I wouldn't even buy an IS.

As for GM going under... tick tock. Seems like only a matter of time. I understand what bankruptcy protection is (Business school did teach me something). In business school you also read case studies of moribund companies that have failed to act soon enough to market changes. GM keeps losing market share - and even they do not have an outlook that's positive for that spiral. They lost Gen X, Gen Y and whatever you wanna call the kids now. With boomers dying off and every other manufacturer offering competitive (sometimes cheaper, same quality) products the road's tough for GM. Additionally, the stigma of "buying foreign" is pretty much gone. Too much compeition, no cultural pressure to buy GM, negative press and queasy feelings about the brand's longevity = doom.

stovt,

You really think Mopar will be around in say 2020? Come on.

Great post.

Totally agree on demographics.

Love to hear about these quality issues that go with my personal experience with my previous cheverolet, ford and cadillacs.

Never had those issues with my Honda, Acura or Audi.

"That's personal valuation. "

Exactly, and its meaningless to other people. The CTS is larger than the 3 series, has a better interior, has a better user interface, has a more distinctive exterior and shares all the luxury features found on the BMW and you say its worth abotu $30k. That makes no sense whatsoever. The 3 series has two advantages- weight and acceleration. My personal valuation system tell me a loaded 335i isn't worth well over $50k and base model certainly isnt't worth $41k.

Your commentary about the future and demographic trends is mostly off base. As usual you presume that because your friends (who likely share your closed minded anti domestic views which are common in CA) hate GM and would never buy American that ALL young people feel the same way. You totally ignore the fact that vehicles like the Escalade, Denali, Camaro, Corvette, Cobalt SS, G8, etc. have credibility amongst people under 40. When you look at the vehicles driven by celebrities/athletes you often find GM products in the mix alongside European vehicle. What you wont find is Japanese or Korean vehicles.

Whatever your parents drive is inevitably uncool. This is why Toyota/Lexus/Scion is watching its average owner get older and older while Mazda, VW, Kia and other such brands are grabbing young buyers. The CTS is more desirable to 30 somethings than the Lexus ES or even the E class or A6. Midsize German cars are conservative and risk averse from a styling standpoint. I see younger people in 1 series and 3 series cars, but not in 5, 6 or 7 series vehicles.

Bottom line is nothing you said supports the idea that GM is "gone". I'm sure you have been making the same prediction since you were old enough to say "GM" and I dont think its any more credible now what it was when I first heard you say it. Its kind of like predicting that the end of the world is imminent- if you say it every year you might eventually be right. You mention lost share but dont mention who has the most share. If we follow your logic that a car company needs a huge share of the US market to remain in business we could deduce that Mazda, Suburu, VW, Porsche, Mitsubishi, Hyundai, etc are on the verge of disappearing. Most of the automakers competing in this country would love to have half of GM's current share.

"With boomers dying off....."

Yeah because they are the key people buying Camaros, Malibus, Enclaves, CTS', Escalades, Vettes, HHRs, etc. GM's lineup is exclusively aimed at nursing home inhabitants.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=149008

$50 billion more to keep it afloat. 90 billion in debt.

Without the support of taxpayers - it is GONE. Do you understand that? The company continues to exist because our politicians won't let it die.

I actually think Cadillac does have kind of a demographics problem. They are trying to drive right into the heart of the 30-something crowd, which is notoriously volatile. This is a group of people whose income is ususally not stable and have no brand loyalty. If you look at luxury makers, MB has actually weathered this financial crisis the best of all them because they know their market and cater to them. The average MB buyer is 55, the average E and S buyer is 62. These people have money and are typically loyal to specific brands (it comes with age).

Cadillac used to co-dominate this group with MB, but it's continually abandoning them and leaving a void for Lexus to fill. I think Cadillac's new products are fantastic and extremely competitive, but I worry about their business strategy. I could very well be completely wrong, but I worry nonetheless.

I fit three golf bags into the trunk of my '09 CTS the other week. It was a very tight fit and you needed to be careful how you did it, but they did go in. Granted, they weren't full-sized tour bags, just normal sized ones.

That being said, I do wish there was a bit more room back there.

No surprise that the old lady recognised it. The design is as retarded as it was back in the 80s.

"Without the support of taxpayers - it is GONE. Do you understand that? The company continues to exist because our politicians won't let it die. "

The company will be around. Thats what I said and thats what will happen. Do you understand that? I dont need a current event update from you. We are all aware of what the government is doing. If the government were not doing this the company would be going bankrupt in an uncontrolled manner with little hope for recovery due to the lending environment. If the economy was semi normal GM would either a)be able to file for bankruptcy like airlines and other companies or b)be healthy enough to avoid the process altogether.

Dont try and change the subject to taxpayer money when you were supposed to be explaining to me why a loaded CTS should cost less than a camry XLE.

"Cadillac used to co-dominate this group with MB, but it's continually abandoning them and leaving a void for Lexus to fill."

Not sure what void LExus is filling with its monthly sales reports showing 40% drops consistently. Lexus is struggling right now and may be passed by BMW in US sales this year.

I think Cadillacs are aimed at people 40-60 generally speaking. I dont think the CTS is specifically aimed at 30 somethings. Most in their 30s cant afford this type of car.