2009 Nissan 370Z Touring: Oil Cooler Install and First Service

I think you guys need to include list price of these services since most of us would not get these special deals you guys get. So if I have a 370Z I should buy a GT-R so I can save money on the service! AAAAAnnndd I'll get a deal on the GT-R service!

Where is the under hood insulator?

Makes perfect sense given you folks drive your sporting cars very hard.

The unknown thing about COBB remapping (or any third party product) is whether or not changes are truly resettable to original without leaving any trace of the change.

EPROM-driven controllers can have parts to track changes by unauthorized personnel, or not.
As to which mfr's opt for more cost to track changes, I have no idea.

After reading the entry a while back about how the positioning of the front brake calipers is determined, I've noticed that the Nissan FM platform cars, such as the Z and the Infiniti G35/G37, have the calipers on the leading edge, indicating the steering rack is behind the front wheels.

Since the FM is rear-wheel drive, I wondered why Nissan didn't choose the front attachment point, which would theoretically allow for the best steering dynamics. I suspect it's because the FM is also the basis for the Infiniti FX, which is all wheel drive. Anyone know why for sure?

Are you allowed to do other aftermarket upgrades?

Oh and another thing! Would this not be a design flaw that after hard driving that the oil gets too hot? I mean I expect this from old cars but a brand new "SPORTS CAR"?

^+1 Especially considering it has the $3,000 sport package. And Holy Cow that is an expensive cooler! I got a transmission fluid cooler last year for... $80. Shipped. And it came with all the parts to install it. I would expect an oil cooler to be heavier duty and a little more expensive, but $780!?!? That's a bit much. And so is the 4 hour installation time, but I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

Shameless plug - the Camaro SS includes oil and transmission coolers standard.

Srlracing - Absolutely a design flaw. I've read a few owners of 370z who got their oil up to 310-330 degrees before it entered limp home mode. These cars should have much better built-in protections to cool the oil once it reaches 270-280. Same thing happened on the BMW 335 after it came out (though granted, that was an actual ALL NEW engine platform and involved 2 turbos). What did BMW do? They retrofitted an oil cooler on all 335s and not just the sport packaged ones....no addt'l cost to the owner.

Keeping the oil within a reasonable temperature is the one thing that keeps engines going. The concept of a cooling system using water-based coolant is only there to keep the oil temps down.

I'm glad Edmunds did this, but it's really a bust on Nissan for not only having this problem in a released car (you can't tell me this problem didn't show up in pre-release testing), and then charging owners over $1000 to put a needed engine protection in place.

Joe

Agree that oil cooler should have been included as part of the sport package.

5500 rpm is still plenty high enough for "limping" home though, don't you think? I usually shift my 2.0 4-cylinder at around 3,000 - 3,500 rpm unless I'm really in a hurry. Then maybe 4,000 - 4,500. I understand the Z is a car that begs to be driven hard, and 10 minutes is not enough endurance for a car that might actually see some track time. But it's not like it will only go 25 mph or something.

I'll agree that it should have been included with the car, sports package or not. Sounds like the 335 and the Camaro SS have it right.

I'll second three points made above....

- When I looked at the contents of the box I thought it all looked like really good hardware, fittings etc. and then I saw the part/install cost.... what, what, WHAT?!?

- Inexcusable that this wasn't dealt with in the design/testing phase and just built into every model - OEM (especially if it was a known issue on the 350).

- Very surprising that limp home allows 5,500 RPMs - I would think 3,500 would be enough.

took my mustang gt to a road course for the first time in march. did a couple of 25-minute sessions of hot-lapping in the morning (rained in the afternoon) and no "limp mode"...

370=fail.

s197gt - I have no idea where you live, what the ambient temps were, etc., but bear in mind that there are also alot of 370z owners and even 335i owners who have never experienced a "limp home" mode even without an oil cooler. Does your GT have an oil temp gauge? If so, do you know what temps you reached?

Obviously not defending it, just pointing out that it's not universally observed.

Rick - Totally agree. I could see, MAYBE, $400 for that kit....being an OEM part sold at a dealership and all....but $780? That's ridiculous. Entire cooling systems, including radiators, hoses, water pumps, thermostats, fans, and fan clutches will go for less than that....

This whole overheating oil thing seems to be a pretty major design flaw on a sports car. I find it ridiculous that Nissan specifically worked on the development of this oil cooling system with an aftermarket provider, but decided not to put it on the car. Certainly with economies of scale and installation during manufacture this would cost Nissan less than $300-400 per vehicle. And you know that they will void warranties if the "limp home" mode has ever been activated.

On a side note, I find it amusing that the IL editors are giving Nissan a free pass on this one and just ponying up the $1240. There have been attacks on other brands for much less serious infractions.

Nissan should have included an oil cooler as part of a track package option. I know the previous 350Z had a track package, even though it didn't include an oil cooler. Not sure if the 370Z does?

Does anyone know at what temperature the limp home mode kicks in at?

My '02 Z06 does not have an engine oil cooler either, but it seems they engineered it so that it doesn't really need one: I've tracked my car several times, and it only got to 300F once, and that was after a full 30 minutes of hot laps on the Willow Springs Big Track, with the ambient air temp at 105F - so pretty extreme conditions. Tracking the car at Pocono last year at 75F ambient temps, the oil temps only got to about 270-280F after 40 minutes of hot lapping. For a full synthetic oil, that's nothing.

Interestingly, the C6 Z06 went oil cooler crazy: engine oil cooler, trans oil cooler, and differential fluid cooler. My car has none of those.

Also, does the 370Z have an engine oil temp gauge or display? If not, that should be part of the track package option along with the cooler.

I agree with those who say Nissan knew of this. There's no doubt in my mind that this problem came up in the initial testing before the car was released to the public.

This is totally against your owner experience policy. You wouldn't even get rid of the run flats on a BMW when the tires needed changing. If your stock Z has an overheating problem, that's what owners need to know. I'm not a fan of this move.

Stingray - I believe it kicks into limp home mode around 305-310 degrees...probably after the oil has registered these temperatures for a certain period of time (i.e. not just a 2-5 second spike).

This stuff amazes me, as Porsche at least had been making cars with no water-based cooling system that could be hot lapped for a long duration using OLD school oils. I think 1978, at least, was the year of the 911 SC which was known to be fairly bulletproof (besides some valve guides)even with tons of track use.

My guess is that modern aerodynamic requirements lower the ability of modern sports cars to funnel sufficient air through heat sinks on these systems, but I could be full of it.

Joe

"This stuff amazes me, as Porsche at least had been making cars with no water-based cooling system that could be hot lapped for a long duration using OLD school oils. "

Yes, but those old school air-cooled Porsche motors on dino oil were making less than 200hp. Air cooled power peaked with the 993 turbo at 400hp, but it was running full synthetic oil (and lots of it) by then.

"My guess is that modern aerodynamic requirements lower the ability of modern sports cars to funnel sufficient air through heat sinks on these systems, but I could be full of it."

No, you pretty much have it. Porsche switched to water cooling as power levels went over 400hp, yet air flow to the engine didn't change much. And as a street car, air flow couldn't change much.

Case in point: radial aircraft engines from the 1940's made upwards of 4,300hp, all air cooled, with turbochargers. The difference is aircraft have enough airflow for aircooling to still work, even with all that HP.

Stingray - Just curious, but why do you equate horsepower to heat?

I would think the heat generation would be more related to overall displacement and friction at high engine speeds than about the actual output.

Agree with several posts above, how can any modern "sports car" need an add-on oil cooler for a track day?! For racing sure, but should be able to handle a 20 minute track day session without overheating.

Isn't this kind of Nissan's M.O. to ship something with a fundamental flaw that could be exposed with extreme use? Not sure if it's bean counters or rushing the dev cycle.

Either way, the fact that they'd already developed it as a NISMO add-on means they knew of the short-coming and decided it wasn't worth putting the cost into the car for the few people that would expose the flaw.

Really, I mean everybody dreams that they're going to track their cars but the actual percentage of people that does has to be < 1%.

Nissan slipped big time on this one. This shows that the car couldn't have been seriously tracked tested during the design and testing phase or this problem would have been discovered. High performance cars should be built with that type of driving in mind. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think all Vettes come with external auxillary oil coolers and transmission coolers for auto equipped models. Works on Silverados towing 10,000 pounds and works just as well on Vettes running around a race track.

So...it handles like a 'track car' on the street, but overheats in 10 minutes on the track?

That's absolutely pathetic. Big, big mistake Nissan.

Nissan knew about this defect during initial testing, yet they haven't publicly admitted it. They knew it was such a bad problem, that they installed aftermarket, not available to the public, parts like the oil cooler and the differential cooler, to cars lent to the various press for testing and review. The fact that months after the car has been released, Edmunds with their Nissan connections, can get these parts and have them installed at the dealer is incredulous. When in your own words, "The unit we got was recommended by Nissan as it was designed for the 370Z by Nissan Motorsports. This is not the upcoming NISMO unit, nor will you be able to buy one or have it installed from your local Nissan dealership."
The public can't put these parts on. That's just plain WRONG!

New engine costs $9K list on this car... Nissan should be selling plenty !

One thing is for certain, there's going to be hell to pay if they start invalidating warranties because people put non-Nissan oil coolers on the cars!!! I think that is the number one issue we should be discussing... Nissan has a history of that kind of behavior

answers to a couple questions above...

- car has an oil temp gauge... sits on top of dash in middle gauge cluster

- car does NOT have an oil pressure gauge... something you really need if you have modified the oil flow, e.g., aftermarket oil cooler

- limp mode first goes to 5,500... then it is progressive and takes to 3,500... check the370z.com forum to read more if you like

"By joefrompa on April 16, 2009 9:05 AM
Stingray - Just curious, but why do you equate horsepower to heat?

I would think the heat generation would be more related to overall displacement and friction at high engine speeds than about the actual output."

Heat generation in an engine is mostly dependent on the amount of fuel actually burned to produce power. Overall displacement has little to do with it. For example, a 2.0L 4 cylinder turbo producing 700hp will generate far more heat than a 7.4L big block Chevy V-8 loafing along with 350hp at full throttle. The 4-cylinder at that power output will be consuming much more fuel than the big V-8 too.

Heat produced from frictional forces is relatively minor relative to heat from combustion.

Some countries actually measure power from an engine by its BTU's (which are typically used to measure heat output).

Controlling oil temperatures with small displacement engines with big power outputs is more difficult because they generally have smaller crankcases, and less of an oil capacity. The greater the oil capacity, the greater the heat absorption capabilities of the oil. This usually necessitates the use of external oil coolers, and in extreme cases, dry sump oil systems.

I agree with srlracing insofar that you should at least list the total costs of these services and upgrades. As a personal owner, I don't have the sway of 20+ cars in my garage to garner a comp deal. I'd say most of the folks reading this site are in the same bucket. Perhaps write to your audience rather than hovering above? Or even better, treat the car as if it is your sole vehicle - and pony up the cash. That way at the end of the year long test you'll have an accurate (not doctored) price of ownership and upgrades.

Kevin

This is total BS. I'm considering not buying a Z now because this is crap. I'd hate to think I took my car up to the mountains for a spirited drive, just to have my performance ratcheted down due to an engineering oversight. This is the kind of BS I would expect from an American automaker.

Oh well, maybe next gen I can finally get my Z.