2008 Cadillac CTS: Brakes Don't Feel Great

"all the rattles that have plagued our long-term CTS since the 10,000-mile mark;

-the glitchy audio/navigation system (XM shut down for 30 minutes last night -- it wasn't a signal problem; the screen just went blank. After a restart, all was well again)."

I, and probably many others, are wondering why this car has not been brought to the dealership to have these issues checked on. Every other report update for this car is the same.

gmusic7-
I am with you about the glitchy nav-system. Even the most incompetent owner is going to get something like that checked out. However, rattles are nearly impossible to pinpoint or remedy when they come from all over like the editors make it seem in the CTS. Most dealerships simply ignore requests like this because so much labor is required to diagnose such a miniscule issue.

Yeah, try to have the rattles fixed under warranty, already! We'd be curious to see how that pans out.

My coworker just picked up a 2004 CTS-V for under $23K, with only 18,000 miles, and it is a flawless specimen. It looks like an old-man car, and the current model looks way better, but it could become a collectable.

"By gmusic7 on April 22, 2009 4:23 PM

I, and probably many others, are wondering why this car has not been brought to the dealership to have these issues checked on. Every other report update for this car is the same."

Good catch. This was actually covered in a response to a blog (by Walton on 4-13-09), but due to some confusion, was never fully blogged about.

I'll make a new post on this tomorrow morning.

Sorry for the mix-up.
-mike

Until tomorrow AM, here's the text of the quick response we gave back on April 13 that I missed. (Due to our large staff and the volume of cars moving through here, I missed this update.)

"By cwalton1 on April 13, 2009 10:48 AM
To set things straight, I just confirmed what I suspected. Here's this morning's email exchange with Mike Magrath RE: the ongoing issues with the CTS:

"CW: Hey, have the audio system and turn signal issues ever been brought to the attention of the service dept at Cadillac? (see link)

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/2009/04/2008-cadillac-cts-audio-slave.html

"MM: Yes. There is no recall and they couldn’t get it to repeat so they didn’t do jack.

"There. Please stop with the, 'Have you guys even taken the car to the dealership... You keep carping...If it were any other car, you would've...' and so on."

I notice the '96ish Cadillac Fleetwood in the background, Cadillac has come a long way...

Erin- thanks for the update and setting the facts straight. It is really dissapointing to hear. I really do want Cadillac to succeed, but they are going to have to offer a much higher level of service if they hope to have any chance of turning their image around.

I have an example of great dealer service. I am not claiming that this example is the norm, but my wife's old SL600 had a very strange intermitent groan from the right rear suspension housing. She took it to the dealer and they looked at everything for a day and said they couldn't replicate the problem. They asked for permission to keep the car for a few days and have a technician drive it around (meanwhile paying for the rental because it was under warranty). He was finally able to replicate the sound and they fixed it. They alerted MBUSA and all other technicians around the country were alerted to this possible issue. That is the kind of service that should be the norm for a luxury brand.

If you read all the comments on the link, they are fixing the turn signal. However, they were unable to recreate the problem with the radio. IL, if the problem is there, show it to them. If you can't, how are they supposed to fix it?

Mercedesfan:

Your story brought a little tear to my eye. So few things in this world are done right.

@pontiac02

That's a DeVille, not a Fleetwood. Check the difference in the B-pillar. Now, I only wish the STS and DTS had as much attitude as this CTS does. BMW notwithstanding (for obvious reasons to some), it's sad when the entry car is the most desirable and best finished one in the lineup. Let's see this much effort in the eventual full size replacement, no?

GM seems to favor long life over performance with its brakes. Good for most drivers, but not so good for enthusiasts.

I'm familiar with these Michelins. I'm pretty sure I have them on my Sonata. They're junk. However, they must have a wear rating of 10,000. I rotate every 3 months or so and they are taking forever to wear out. I can't wait to get rid of them and get a set of Kumhos.

First of all the car has upgraded brakes available so its the buyer's choice as to which braking system to get. Secondly, no one else has complained about a "mushy" brake pedal and I haven't seen this mentioned in any reviews of the car.

Everyone knows you aren't going to get a fix of a problem that doesn't surface when you go to the dealer unless there is a TSB out on that issue. HAs anyone checked to see if there is some sort of system upgrade available for the CTS to correct the electronics issues? I don't get the impression that this problem has been pursued with much effort. If its not a big enough deal to get addressed stop bringing it up every other week.

Anytime you get a post by someone who says they never want to drive a particular car you can rest assured its going to be filled with complaints. It appears Erin was never a fan of the car from the start and she drives the car infrequently enough to maintain her views on the CTS.

This sure doesn't sound like a premium driving experience to me.

"Yeah, try to have the rattles fixed under warranty, already! We'd be curious to see how that pans out."

Oh how I wish we lived in a world where this could happen. Maybe its just my dealer experiences, but I hear the words "can no replicate problem" far too much.

Their radio problem should be fixable, but it doesn't surprise me at all that the rattles will not be addressed.

Have not heard these similar claims from Motor Trend's long term CTS which is optioned almost identically to IL's.

The FE3 suspension pacakge is NOT for the average driver, the ride is too firm and the summer only tires are much more expensive to replace and wear out much faster. It's called compromise and apparently since auto writers drive vehicles for free without any maintanence cost leaving their pockets, they lose grasp with reality.

I think the CTS is held to a different standard than other "premium" cars. The E class has had mushy brakes and vague steering for an entire generation yet the CTS is supposed to be dynamically perfect in every regard? If you want a BMW, there are plenty out their for you to choose from so stop the bitching. Cadillacs are NOT BMWs and neither are MBs, Lexus nor Infinitis.

Was Mazda sucessful reflashing the 6's nav system?

"This sure doesn't sound like a premium driving experience to me"

I guess the failing power steering system in the Audi A4 does though?

Albert Austria just posted positive feedback on the CTS and mentioned nothing but the squeeky driver's seat.

doug,

I believe the "we cant replicate the problem" is in reference to the nav glitches. They havent mentioned the squeaking seats or mystery rattles since they assumed they wouldn't be addressed by the dealer. Usually electronics glitches can be rectified with new software so I am willing to bet there is a fix out there for the CTS' audio/nav issues.

I had a look back into the other "audio-slave" blog and the original post from boxermike was:

"The radio, however, will not be fixed. We have the most recent updates and they can't get the issue to repeat. "

So it looks like the dealer won't do the fix, though I'm guessing 1487 right and there is some fix available somewhere.

I was under the impression that the dealer had commented on the squeakyness/rattles. Having a look back at the previous blog post, I see this item was not discussed. I wonder if either CW or MM could comment on this?

I've had rattles fixed under warranty with a couple of my cars. Even if they can't pinpoint exactly what's causing the rattle, in my experience they would add extra insulation in the affected area, replace or tighten clips, etc. Maybe I've just been lucky.

Also, I once had an intermittent transmission problem with my old 2002 VW Jetta, and they couldn't recreate the issue right away. They had their top technician take the car home, and he was able to recreate the problem. So it isn't just "luxury" dealers that will go the extra mile.

yeah, maybe Caddy can fly engineers from headquarters like Nissan did to get the problem remedied.

@chavis10 Re. "I guess the failing power steering system in the Audi A4 does though?"

If you say so. I sure didn't.

FYI, my 2008 Subaru Legacy has had it's climate control/radio system shut down about 3 times in 1 year/23,000 miles of ownership. No controls would respond until the car was restarted.

I haven't taken it to the dealership. Why? Because I know it's a known problem, and because I can't reproduce it on demand. Why on earth would I hand the keys to a car I care about to people who don't care about my car and don't have a fix?

Same thing with rattles. Unless it's readily repeatable and the fix is known, I don't want anyone tearing apart my dash or other trim to fix a rattle.

BTW, I too have taken my car to dealerships and shown them rattles (with someone in the car) and then had them tell me the tech couldn't repeat it enough to fix it.

Joe

chavis-
There is a big difference between long-travel brakes and mushy brakes. The E-Class has long travel brakes. They bite hard eventually, but there is quite a bit of travel before you get there. Erin makes it sound like the CTS has mushy brakes, which means long travel and no strong bite. I agree with you on the rest, I wouldn't want every luxury brand to be as compromised for performance as BMW. I absolutely love driving them, but I would rather own something a little more refined.

"Same thing with rattles. Unless it's readily repeatable and the fix is known, I don't want anyone tearing apart my dash or other trim to fix a rattle. "

A) You dont have a Cadillac. Luxury cars cost a lot and one should expect great service from the dealer.
B) considering how many posts there have been about these damn squeaking seats the problem must be very consistent and loud

mercedesfan:

most agree that GM no longer has "mushy" brakes, certainly not on the CTS. This hasn't been a complaint about this test car or other CTS' tested until now. In my experience GM cars (dont know about trucks) have brakes that initiate with minimal travel. I drove a Charger rental in 2007 and the brake pedal had considerably more travel than any recent GM vehicle I've piloted.

1487 - I haven't seen any indication that Edmunds brought the CTS to the dealer to have the rattles and squeaking seat fixed. They only brought it in for the radio glitch a long time ago, and that was it.

Which leads me to bring up my previous question which was never answered: Why was the long-term BMW X5 immediately brought to the dealer for the same problem (squeeky seat) to be repaired, while the CTS wasn't even given the chance to have the dealer fix it?

As a result, the BMW X5's squeeky seat problem was mentioned only once that I saw (maybe twice), while the CTS's squeeky seat has been mentioned like 20 times already. Two different manufacturers, same quality/design flaw, yet the way Edmund's handled the two vehicle's problems is like night and day, giving the appearance that one manufacturer has vastly superior quality than the other, to the average reader. Hmmm, I wonder which one gave the free car for testing???

1487 - I expect great service from a luxury dealer. I don't expect them to have the highest caliper people working for them in the garage bay. That goes for all brands.

By the way, I've gotten service at one Cadillac dealer before, when I had a Saab 9-2x in 2005. Nice people, great service, don't trust the people working on my car.

I do agree with you by the way, I'd like to see what a visit to the dealer asking them to repair all these rattles would yield.