2009 Hyundai Genesis V6: Taking Hume Seriously

"stay tuned for an Edmunds Daily smackdown between the CTS and the Genesis"

Actually, I was hoping for a canyon carving cagematch between the Genesis (Jenny) and the G8 GT (GateGut) like the Altima-Aura-Accord one. Looks like the GateGut is on the way out the door though so I guess facing the Jenny against the CTS is the next best thing.

Heritage Park in Old town is a nice spot :)

@funkymunky,

I can only tell you that it involves gesticulating wildly and whooping and hollering. And perhaps having nothing else to do on a Sunday.

-S.B. True

Here we go again. After driving the Genesis, I must say that it competes well within its class. Let's make this clear. There is no comparison between it and the 7-series, so please stop it. (And I'm not the biggest BMW fan) It was also pretty soft and not that sporting at all. Try comparing it to a lexus ES or GS next time. It also is and feels big, but is still pretty fast for a car its size.

@cp88,

So you disagree with the specific comparisons I made between the Genesis and the 750i? Tell me why I'm wrong.

Also, what is the Genesis's "class," exactly? A harder question to answer than you might think.

On the "soft and not sporting" tip, see complaint #3, and read the last two paragraphs a bit more closely.

-Josh

Josh, when you speak of Hyundai's reputation of "cost-cutting mediocrity (or worse)", let me refer you to the very first Hyundai this continent experienced: the Hyundai Pony!

It's good to see that they're turning the corner on that front though.

As to class, Josh, please keep some perspective. 6 people might cross shop those cars. Just like the legroom, it's very subjective.

It's "class", if we need to ascribe it one, should be kept to the full-size, and if necessary, rear-wheel, under 50k.

Ze Germam luxo-barges do have sporting pretensions, one that they fulfill adequetly considering their heft. I must admit I feel comfortable speaking to this having driven two of the three. Furthermore, the BMW 7-series is 5 inches longer wheel to wheel and overall, so significantly bigger. The Genesis seems much closer to the 5-series in size, if slightly larger.

Josh having never driven the new 750i I cannot speak to it, but having spent the last 3 years and 60,000 miles with an S550 I can say with confidence that the Genesis barely measures up. Now I will admit this is based on a short (30 minute or so) drive in a client's new Genesis V8, but I still feel like I got an idea. The quality of the Genesis cabin isn't close to being in the same league, the ride is floaty like a Lexus rather than firm and controlled like a Benz, it accelerates hard but without the effortlessness of the Benzes 5.5-liter V8, and when it comes time to throw it into a corner the steering is lifeless while the S's is surprisingly beafy and talkative.

And to think, I logged in today planning on talking about how much I was impressed with the Genesis and how it blew away my expectations. The truth is it really did, but I'm still not cross-shopping it for my next purchase.

@g8gtnorth,

Bigger, yes. But roomier inside? No. I checked the numbers to see if my subjective impressions were accurate, and by a couple tenths of an inch, they are.

Genesis rear legroom: 38.6 inches.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2009/hyundai/genesis/101008124/specs.html

750i rear legroom: 38.4 inches.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2009/bmw/7series/101136367/specs.html

Moreover, the Genesis's significantly higher cushion (noted in the post) means that we long-legged folk won't have our legs poking out as far, making the Genesis's slight edge in legroom seem more significant in the real world.

Come on, find me another RWD luxury sedan that has a backseat like this for under $50k (and remember that this car starts at an unbelievable $32k and change). And also remember that the Genesis has many virtues beyond its palatial backseat (unlike the FWD/AWD Lincoln MKS, e.g., which has a commodious high-cushioned backseat and basically nothing else of note).

Look, at least some people of means got there by being prudent with their money. This Genesis V6 is comparable to the 750i in some compelling ways while costing $50, fifty, five-zero grand less. Sounds like a prudent choice to me, if we can resist the "biass" Hume speaks of.

Again, I will refer back to a few years ago, when BMW reigned supreme among luxury sports sedans. Then out of nowhere came the Infiniti G35. Everyone was skeptical about it going against the BMW 3-series. But it did, and in its second generation, is as good or better than the BMW.

The conversations about that battle were similar to the ones about the Hyundai Genesis competing with the big luxury marques. The similarities keep coming between Hyundai of today and Infiniti of yesterday.

Infiniti just had discontinued the G20, was still making the I-35, and the J-class was killed off a few year back. Infiniti was not on the radar screen of any performance buyer's list. Then in 2002, the G35 was introduced.

Now, Hyundai, a company that hasn't been on anyone's shopping list for the company's first decade of selling cars in the USA, suddenly have competitive vehicles in not one, but in all classes they make vehicles for.

There is clearly a stigma for Hyundai, but as Infiniti proves, stigmas can turn around real quick if you have the product that backs up the promise.

It's clear that Hyundai has the product (Santa Fe, Genesis, Sonata, Azera). It's up to buyers to turn that stigma around.

@mercedesfan,

I will totally grant the superiority of German luxobarge driving dynamics, as I did in the original post (though I will not agree that the floaty ride is necessarily a con -- the Lexus LS floats, and that doesn't stop fat cats from buying 'em instead of Benzes). But answer me this: is superior steering/handling worth an extra $40-50k?

Likewise, you mention interior materials. Sure, S-Class's are nicer, but look at what the Genesis has to offer -- soft-touch everywhere (including the rear console(?!), where even the 750i has hard stuff), metal accents, leather dash, etc. I mean, you've got to split hairs to explain to someone why your S550's materials are that much nicer. I totally grant the point myself, but I'm just sayin', $40-50k...

@SadButTrue

Think of what all you could do with that extra $50k too.

QUOTE Well then. That is what Hyundai is tackling head-on with this car. The customary association of the Hyundai nameplate with cost-cutting mediocrity (or worse). The "biass to the imagination" that Hyundai's initial reliability woes have branded onto American brains, journalists' included. What the company needed was a car that would simply leave us no choice but to "correct this propensity by reflection" /QUOTE

Too bad this forgive and forget attitude extends only to Hyundai. Other companies that messed up in the 70s will apparently never kill the bias, no matter what products they put out.

When you put it that way Josh I can't help but agree with you. The Genesis really is a remarkably good car and an utterly amazing value. And I agree when judged purely subjectively an S is hardly worth 150% more than the Hyundai. However, after having spent 3 years getting pampered by the infinitely adjustable seats with rolling-heated massage, the fully power-adjustable rear seats, and the ability to tailor every single aspect of my car to my personal tastes via COMAND it would be hard to switch permanently to a car with as few electronic goodies as the Genesis. Then again, if I only wanted to spend $40K and yet still get the overall feeling of an S the Genesis really is the only choice.

"However, after having spent 3 years getting pampered by the infinitely adjustable seats with rolling-heated massage, the fully power-adjustable rear seats, and the ability to tailor every single aspect of my car to my personal tastes via COMAND it would be hard to switch permanently to a car with as few electronic goodies as the Genesis."

Must be nice :P.

@mercedesfan

We'll check back with you when/if the VI (EQUUS in KDM) ever gets here.

i really like this car. would have to be in black though.

I think its funny that people actually want to argue that the S class and 750i are better cars. They BETTER be superior for all that extra dough. Are they worth tens of thousands more objectively speaking? No.

How many shots will Josh take at the MKS? I think we all know how much you dislike the car. I disagree that it has no merits beyond a nice backseat. It has a nice interior, cutting edge features, AWD and a unique look. Aside from lacking RWD dynamics it actually stacks up well vs the Genesis although without the same level of value. Both cars have similar space and features.

"However, after having spent 3 years getting pampered by the infinitely adjustable seats with rolling-heated massage, the fully power-adjustable rear seats, and the ability to tailor every single aspect of my car to my personal tastes via COMAND it would be hard to switch permanently to a car with as few electronic goodies as the Genesis."

The genesis doesnt have many electronic goodies? News to me.

Maybe they'll give it a sport package soon.

I don't have any personal experience with the Genesis, but I have extensive experience with the redesigned Sonata (my dad owns one). The Sonata, like the Genesis, has received nearly universal praise from the media for its interior quality, value, and overall appeal.

Having driven the Sonata on multiple occasions, I will say that I am very impressed with its engine. The rest of the car is another story. Some of the exterior badging is already starting to fall off, the leather looks worn, the interior pops, cracks, and rattles on even the smoothest roads, and hard plastic is plentiful throughout the interior. Considering how much the car cost, I'm not saying it's a terrible car. However, to say that it competes with the Hondas/Toyotas/Nissans of the world is absurd.

Maybe the Genesis truly is a great car, but I get the impression that the media is trying REALLY hard to show that Hyundai now competes with the big boys, even though the products don't quite back up the hype. Getting closer, but not quite there...

^ I was in the Sonata, the interior has a lot of soft plastic. More than the Camry and just about the same amount as the Accord. I get the impression that you had low expectations when you drove it.

@bloodyr,

No comparison between Sonata and Genesis. Sonata is a competitive midsize family sedan -- nothing more, nothing less.

It might be instructive to check out our Azera long-term archive. Now there's a car that's "closer, but not quite there," and I think you'll see that reflected in the consistent but mild praise we gave it.

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/PastVehicles/2007HyundaiAzeraLimited/

Like I said in the original post, journalists are hardly immune to the custom of associating Hyundai with subpar products. The Genesis had to be really, really good to neutralize that tendency. That's why we're praising it -- not because we're "trying really hard."

Josh, it's a fair argument, I can't and won't deny it. The Genesis does what it does well, and under 50k is probably one of the strongest values on the market. Thing is almost no one is going to cross shop these cars. Those that can afford more expensive cars tend to buy them.

As for size, what they do on the inside is one thing, but the 7 series is still physically bigger, and that tends to be the metric most people go by. For instance the G8 is similar in size, yet compared to the 5-series.

At 6'5" I can fully appreciate a big backseat, the G8's rear leg room is listed as 39.40 in., but at under 50k, the game is about compromise. It's all about sort of flavour you want. I went with sporty. It's luxurious enough for me. Leather, heated seats, decent stereo, automatic lights, clear non-distracting dash at night, smooth. All I could really ask for more is slightly better soundproofing. To ME the rest of that stuff is dressing, fluff. Sure it's nice, but do I NEED it? No.

By comparisson the 300c has 40.2 in. of rear leg room and to some this is the standard of luxury. What I'm getting at is that in this price range, there's something for everybody, and it's all subjective.

The 300C really is the real trailblazer here. The Genesis is an evolution of the same idea. The 300C offered great space, plenty of hp and numerous luxury features for a bargain price when it debuted in 2004. The Genesis has a better interior and better V6 engine but that is to be expected since its 4 years newer. Its amazing how quickly people forget. Its kind of like people saying that the current CTS is "finally" going to change perceptions about Cadillac even though the first gen model came out in 2002.

@1487,

The 300C is not a substitute for German luxury sedans -- never has been -- so whatever trail it may have blazed, that wasn't it. Saying the Genesis has a better interior than the 300C is like saying the 300C SRT-8's acceleration is better than the Genesis V6's. Like, WAY better. Not-even-close better. Different-league-altogether better. The Genesis really is a middle class man's S-Class in terms of its interior design and quality. The 300C is anywhere from a rental car (base model) to an adequate big sedan distinguished by its styling and available Hemi V8.

@g8gtnorth,

I'm a big fan of the G8 GT, as you may have noticed. You're right, it's got a great backseat -- not as plush as the Hyundai's, but extremely roomy, and the outboard seats are nicely shaped. These two cars are unquestionably among the best bargains in the game right now. The Genesis has the snob factor going for it (ultra-luxury interior design and materials quality, refined exterior design, super quiet, super smooth), which is what enables me to mention it in the same breath as the German luxobarges, but the G8 GT has a killer combination of performance and practicality. Can't go wrong either way.

Dear Josh,

Nice to know that I am not alone, as with many other automotive press personnel. Your impression is pretty much what I felt about the Genesis sedan.

I drove a press loaned Genesis (V8, tech package) last December here in the East coast for a week, and damn, what a fine vehicle. Too bad there are so many people - as it is the case with many other products - that lament about the Genesis by associating it with the Hyundai badge. Stuffed with much latest technology and expensive parts from top notch automotive suppliers, the Genesis represents both a stunning leap of quality for Hyundai as well as proving as a hidden gem for car buyers out there. If there are any readers who wants to find one, they should heed to your observations and TRY driving one before saying something Teutonic.

BTW, I strongly recommend that you drive a V8 as well. Although the 0-60 numbers and performance wise, the V6 does should not disappoint as compared to the V8, the latter is really a pocket rocket. I am waiting for the Hyundai developed 8 gear AT to come on line in the near future and be fitted in the Genesis.

Last, I do agree that the handling is not as par as with other performance oriented vehicles out there, like the Infiniti M35 that I got to test 2 years ago. However, I guess that HMC was targeting more Lexus GS/ES than the Infiniti M35/BMW 5er.

Out of the 50 cars that I tested as a vehicle marketability engineer for Renault in my previous career, the Genesis comes out as a wild card that will shock many competitors around the world. Either the readers of this column may care right now, it does not matter. The word will be out in the market by the time the 2nd gen Genesis comes out, and I am guessing that by then, the Genesis moniker will be another lux-marque wannabe from Asia that just might make it, like Lexus.

If you have seen the movie 'Fiddler on the Roof', you might remember this scene. The milkman's wife tells her lover 'Even a poor tailor is entitled to happiness'. When I drove the Genesis late last year, I said to myself 'Even a poor engineer like me deserves some fun'.

Yes, Genesis is no BMW. But for people like me who can't afford an 80k car but who want a little more RWD, Technology & comfort & driving fun, Acccord or Camry don't cut it. Genesis' handling gets dangerously close to a BMW and luxury is very very very close to a Lexus.

Most of the people who harp on Genesis are those who are incredulous that a brand like Hyundai can create a product like Genesis. They have no other point to raise other than 'How DARE they compete with BMW??'. Fine, people who can afford a 60-80k car need not buy a Genesis. But people like me who want RWD fun+luxury but can't shell out the outrageous cost (to me at least), would gladly go for Genesis.

Remember when the 2006 Sonata came out. Even in it's base version, it had ESC, Traction Control & EBD. No other family sedan manufacturer had them as standard at that time. These acronyms won't make a good ad copy, but are engineering decisions of safety. And, I have said it again. I want Hyundai to succeed with Genesis sedan & coupe. I want the market to reward hard work. A lot of good engineering & care has gone into these products. Hyundai has come a long way & has worked incredibly hard to make their cars reliable & of good quality. As an engineer, I have seen too many MBAs use charm to ride over engineering & go for 'Flashy' over 'Quality'.

@ledwinka,

Agreed on the V8. The acceleration numbers don't do it justice. Like any good V8, the Genesis's really shines when you accelerate on the highway -- effortless 65-... pull.

@wobbly_ears,

I have to disagree with your handling comment. "Genesis' handling gets dangerously close to a BMW"? Not any BMW I've driven. You can't even fully disable the Hyundai's stability control -- what fun is that in a powerful RWD car? Otherwise, though, yep, I share your sentiments.

SadButTrue, I agree with you about handling. 'Dangerously Close' was not a very accurate statement. What I meant to say was that the handling wasn't wavy like my Azera. I felt it was sharp for a sedan. (More like a Lexus GS)

wobbly, yeah, I'll buy that. We did a comparison test of the Genesis and GS350 awhile back, and while the GS350 handled better, the Genesis was surprisingly competent for such a softly sprung car.

Josh,

This may be a shock to you but in 4 years cars advance quite a bit. You saying the Genesis is better than the 300C is about as obvious as saying the 2008 MAlibu is better than the 2004 model. I mean next you will tell me the sun sets every evening.

I know you don't like any domestic vehicles (at least none that I can recall) so your 300C insults were expected. Contrary to what you stated here the 300C was widely regarded as an impressive product by Chrysler at the time and a luxury car bargain. While the 300C was not a sports sedan it most certainly was more sporting than many of the cars available in its price range at the time. The SRT8 was definitely very sporty and capable of running with German cars. The Genesis isn't sporty either but it can hold its own and is not Toyota soft. As I said, its an evolution of the same compact. A large, RWD luxury sedan that costs thousands less than comparable vehicles from Germany.

Whether or not a Genesis (or 300 or any car) can handle as sharply as a BMW is largely irrelevant. The ultimate handling capabilities of a BMW are relevant to most owners who drive like responsible adults. When commuting from A to B or cruising at 80mph on the interstate a BMW's handling limits aren't really that important. Ultimately BMW people have to fall back on the "ultimate driving machine" talk to try and justify the stiff premiums BMW charges for it's vehicles. The Genesis is designed to be used like a luxury sedan is typically used, not to lap a track.

@1487's entry at 5:34,

"I know you don't like any domestic vehicles (at least none that I can recall)..."

Not that we all need further evidence of 1487's affinity for nonsense, but this certainly qualifies.

I'll leave it at that.

Still waiting on that list of cars.........

Oh yeah, you like the G8. I forgot about that one. As far as I can tell is your general ranking of cars is German cars first, Japanese cars a distant second and American cars somewhere way behind that. Nonsense indeed.

PS.

Instead of an vague insult you could have actually explained your position on the 300C which is totally out of sync with the prevailing wisdom about the car when it debuted. The fact that it represented such a bargain for a large RWD car was one reason why it landed on 10BEST and won MTCTY.

Two specific things about the Hyundai Genesis that they should change:

1) They should have seat coolers on both sides on their upscale packages (only has it for the driver)
2) There should be an AWD option. If this was available, I would get this car in a heartbeat!

@ wobbly_ears:

"Yes, Genesis is no BMW. But for people like me who can't afford an 80k car but who want a little more RWD, Technology & comfort & driving fun, Acccord or Camry don't cut it. Genesis' handling gets dangerously close to a BMW and luxury is very very very close to a Lexus."

I think this is very succinctly stated and agree with you wholeheartedly. Truth be told, even if I was a multi-billionaire, the 2 cars on my shopping list would be a Hyundai Genesis and a Cadillac DeVille as the daily driver. (There would be Porsches, Ferraris and BMW's) for Sunday mornings however, hhh..

@ bszeto

Nice call on the 2 changes. Many have commented that an AWD option would be a nice addition to the stable.

Would an AWD HYBRID version work? Imagine marketing this: Power of a V8 with fuel efficiency of a 4 cylinder and added traction of AWD..

With Hyundai and GM (?) set to use new lithium-ion batteries by LG Chem (vs. the now prevalent and older tech Nickel-based ones used by Toyota et al.) I think Hyundai could manage some impressive fuel efficiency numbers in their version of a hybrid..

So this how I envision it marketed:

HYUNDAI GENESIS HYBRID AWD

It's a V6 with the power of a V8, the fuel efficiency of a 4-cyl, added peace of mind from AWD.

Starting price for the base Genesis is ~$32K so make the Hybrid AWD start at $35K and I think you have an even stronger value proposition..