2008 Subaru Impreza WRX STI: The Footrest Rant

like you said, the germans get it right. GTI dead pedal is perfect.

I have to say, I rarely use the dead pedal at all in my '94 Saab 900 (5MT). I usually just rest my left foot flat on the floor in front of the clutch. The only time I find myself using it is on long highway jaunts where little shifting is required.

Just when I thought Edmunds had finally run out of reasons why this car sucks, they hit me with reason #2,344: crappy footrest.

This car needs to be dragged out back and shot.

I am a long-time reader of Insideline, but I was compelled to sign-up to post a comment to this blog entry. I am a Saab 9-2x owner, so I have a special place in my heart for the STI, BTW those pedals are the exact ones in my car.

Anyway, there is just an outrageous level of nitpicking with this vehicle, IMO. I have size 13 feet, and am 6 feet tall. I found the dead pedal to be perfectly adequate in my 9-2x, yes, it is short, but not uncomfortable or useless on long drives. I found that adjusting my seat position has helped with such things like foot placement for clutch engagement and resting.

To the bigger point, when it is clear that you don't like a vehicle, why drive it at all? When commenting on something frivolous like dead pedal placement, how does that help the consumer with a purchase decision, especially when you have larger than average feet? Posts like these make me wonder what kinds of vehicles these auto journo actually OWN? With that, what sacrifices would they make for a vehicle purchase? But, I guess they don't really have to worry about actually owning a vehicle because there is a full array at their disposal for each task.

Could nitpicking comments like this one about dead pedals have lead to the ultimate taming of the Suby? Maybe, maybe not. Yea, historically journos have always preferred the EVO because of sheer fun factor. I wish that the Edmunds team would have invested a couple thousand dollars in modding the Suby, just like the EVO, that would be a fairer comparison between these rivals. Really, after following the blog posts on this vehicle, there seems to be very few posts saying it sucks, just posts saying it's average, which I guess is damning enough for a brand's flagship.

Thank you, journos, for complaining the character out of Suby. Don't say Subaru didn't listen to your complaints.

Dead Pedal in Civic Si = Perfecto!

I don't have a problem with the dead pedal. Maybe it's because I wear a size 9 shoe. :

I do however have a problem with those metal pedals with small rubber grips. If it's raining out, and my shoes get wet, I have to be careful that my left foot does not slip off the clutch pedal.

The fact of the matter is—those "metal" pedals are slippery when wet. Several times my foot has slipped off the clutch pedal when trying to change gears. It even happened to a friend of mine the other day when I let him drive my WRX, which also has those same metal pedals.

Subaru, bring back the 100% rubber-covered pedals!

Don't know if this applies to new cars, but in my experience...

Foot on dead pedal + offset crash = broken foot

I've seen it happen in several different cars. Not resting my foot on that dead pedal kept me from weeks on crutches.

Do you really put your heal all the way at the bottom of the dead pedal like that? When I use the dead pedal in my cars I just put the ball of my foot on the dead pedal and there is plenty of room for a 10.5.

If you want to talk terrible dead pedals my '99 Escort ZX2 had an applique for a dead pedal. Just a sticker stuck to the carpet and it was at a 90º angle.

... I meant to say heel

With this degree of nitpicking, are you sure this isn't your Ford Focus? No, a car will never be nitpicked like the Focus was.

I don't think this is nitpicking. Its a comfort issue. Calling it nitpicking is like calling 'seat comfort' nitpicking.

I use my dead pedal whenever I drive. The MINI's is well sized and placed, but feels a little flimsy at times.

Once again, expectations are higher when the car costs $38,000.

I always drive manual transmission cars and never gave much thought about dead pedals - until my current vehicle - an older Honda Accord. My foot just seems to "find" this pedal on its own...

For those who think Josh Sadlier is nitpicking...

I own a 2008 legacy GT. It's my wife's car. I have size 12 feet.

One my regular, FREQUENT, complaints that I discovered AFTER buying the car is that the dead pedal is uncomfortable. It's exactly as Josh described. You can only rest your foot on it if you move your heel back towards the seat and allow your arch to float in the air. How is that comfortable?

In other words, by reading this blog I would've been more likely to note this nitpick prior to buying. Would it have prevented me from buying the car? No. But it would have been something I evaluated for comfort (much like how I got a extendable armrest because the stock armrest was useless).

How serious of an issue is this for me? Let me put it this way: If there's nothing behind the dead pedal, I may hammer the area above it flat, re-carpet it, and finally rest my foot.

Beyond all of that, the "foot box" around the pedals is extremely tight. I literally have to move my size 12's with surgical precision to avoid my toes touching the underside of the dash, overlapping a pedal, or generally feeling obnoxiously large. This is a legitimate complaint...if this wasn't my wife's daily driver, I think it would bother me alot more.

I get in my 2006 Civic SI and notice the dead pedal is perfect and there's lots of space for my footsies around the pedals, while still being well placed for heel-toeing and other operations. That's comfortable and encouraging.

Things like that make a big difference to some people, so why call it nitpicking?

Joe

"I am a long-time reader of Insideline, but I was compelled to sign-up to post a comment to this blog entry. I am a Saab 9-2x owner, so I have a special place in my heart for the STI, BTW those pedals are the exact ones in my car."

... But... how does owning a Saab cause you to carve out a special place in your heart for a Subaru?

Eidolways -- The 9-2X is a re-badged Impreza. :-p

Why would he not just buy the Impreza?

I never understood the 9-2x. Apparently neither did anybody else since that car's production last 8 seconds.

Is Saab still a "going concern"?

To each his own I guess. I've been daily driving my 9-2x for 4 years to work in size 13 dress shoes, and have taken it on 9-hour road trips. I cannot necessarily rest my ENTIRE foot flat on the pedal but, I don't, and haven't found this uncomfortable (maybe I have really supportive shoes?). Now, I actually find the seats uncomfortable after more than 3 hours because my left butt cheek falls asleep. Do the seats suck? Yes and no.

I call it nitpicking, at least from a review/journalistic standpoint because something like this issue is dependent on the user. One can only determine that the dead pedal sucks/or is great by driving the car. I feel by ranting about his large feet and inadequate dead pedal, there is not necessarily any value added to a vehicle's review. Something like this should not necessarily be a demerit against the car because the vehicle does fit a person's anatomy perfectly. If you have size 12 or 13 (in my case) feet, I feel that any comments about dead pedal size have a bit less validity.

B

Gooney - Huh. I learn something new every day. Reading up, though, the STi as it stands now is totally unique to Subie. So I shall continue to rant!

"To the bigger point, when it is clear that you don't like a vehicle, why drive it at all? When commenting on something frivolous like dead pedal placement, how does that help the consumer with a purchase decision, especially when you have larger than average feet?"

It's their job, actually. These guys test-drive these cars, whether they like them or not, and report on how fun, practical, and useful they are to drive. In this case, the dead pedal in the STi seems to be rather hard to use for Americans with our big feet.

"Could nitpicking comments like this one about dead pedals have lead to the ultimate taming of the Suby?"
Taming? No. Note that the complaint here is not that the STi is too focused and must be more civilian. No, he's noting that the foot brace for steadying himself in the seat is inadequate for its intended purpose. Correcting that could only make the STi easier to drive well and hard.

"Yea, historically journos have always preferred the EVO because of sheer fun factor. I wish that the Edmunds team would have invested a couple thousand dollars in modding the Suby, just like the EVO, that would be a fairer comparison between these rivals."
They're not modifying the EVO. At least not the MR. They're modifying the GSR. And note that the comparisons have typically been against the EVO MR that was in the fleet, which was unmodified. The particularly damning fact for the STi is that the EVO is so close in price and yet is so much more fun to drive.

Putting with a car's quirks for the performance it offers is all well and good. But when that car costs $38,000, you expect it do it well and to stack up favorably against similarly priced rivals.

Coletrickle:

I bought the 9-2x brand new for thousands less than the cost of a lesser-equipped WRX wagon in 2005 when GM had its discounts. I would not have purchased the car for the MSRP of $28,000 in 2005. Ironically, Subaru has filled that price point with its limited-trimmed Imprezas that have the features originally available in the 9-2x.

Saab, I think is looking for a buyer.

I agree with the guy who said this car should be taken out and shot. If you can't even get a dead pedal right, you have no business designing cars, or at least interiors. And this newer generation was supposed to widen the cars appeal?

I think Bob's complaint is a bigger issue. I'm glad the dead pedal on the MY2002-2007 WRX isn't aluminum for that very reason--slippery when wet.

I disagree with my friend Josh regarding the size of the dead pedal. I think it's more of a foot placement issue. I normally have my left foot (I'm only a size 10) at a slight angle like this: \ (actually less than the angle of the backslash). Also, my left heel is on the floor and not at the base of the dead pedal. If I put my entire foot on the dead pedal a la i_am_me, it is too skinny. It's also uncomfortable. I don't know how you do it, Josh! :o)

My dead pedal on my 98 Accord AT was never used, but when I switched to MT cars... yeah it definitely makes a difference. For some reason, with heavily bolstered seats that press your legs in, using the dead pedal definitely feels more comfortable too. The dead pedals in my Civic SI and S2000 are about perfect. The only thing I did was add a drilled aluminum plate to my SI dead pedal for cosmetic purposes.

Eidolways:

The taming issue I am referring to is going from the harshness of 2002-2007 WRX to the current models.

I don't know Insideline's process of taking out a long-term vehicle for review. But, my point is: if you have a fleet of long-term vehicles, of which you have a choice, why pick the car that you hate?

Then, you proceed to lambast it because of the dead pedal. Granted, auto reviews aren't objective at all, but as a consumer, I don't think a review like this is helpful. That is my overall point.

$38,000 is a lot of money for a car, but I know few people who option-out a vehicle. People put with the high purchase price and maintenance costs for BMW because of their performance and luxury. If you were in the market for this STI or BMW with your high expectations you would either negotiate the price, cut out some options, or leave the car on the lot. Simple.

strange about the Genesis dead petal. the one the Sonata is perfect.

Coletrickle - I bought a 2005 Saab 9-2x Aero 5-speed with heated seats for $18,500 in June of 2005, brand new off the truck. That was an WRX Wagon....with a better looking exterior, nicer stock wheels made by Enkei, the STI steering rack, re-tuned suspension, and a tad bit more sound insulation and a different color interior.

The fascination for me was that I was able to get a slightly upgraded WRX (IMHO) for ~$6000 less than the actual WRX.

Unfortunately, I didn't fully grasp the possibilities of that car. I got stuck on it's loud, slightly rough ride. Agricultural 5-speed. Tinny sounding doors and the sound the car made when rocks hit the undercarriage. Uncomfortable seats. And "Oh my god I'm going to die cause I can't get out of my own way" power in 2nd gear at 2000 rpms.

I should've, SHOULD HAVE, modified it slightly. I would've had all the power I wanted.

Instead I traded it in for more than I bought it for after 9,000 miles and got an 06 Civic SI.

I love the SI, but the Saab had better financing, a year paid off, was more practical, and had alot of possibility.

I didn't know a brand-new 9-2x could be had for $18,500. That helps explain why Saab stopped production after like the 5th day.

As for the comment about $38,000 being a "fully-optioned out vehicle" I'll tell you that $38K gets you a stock STI with just the upgraded wheels, (no nav, no special mirrors, no armrest extension, no heated seats, no upgraded stereo, etc. etc. etc.). Just the wheels.

@i_am_me,

"my point is: if you have a fleet of long-term vehicles, of which you have a choice, why pick the car that you hate?"

Relative newcomers like me don't have as much pull, so we often have only two or three cars to choose from when the list comes around. In recent months, the STI has consistently been one of those cars. Given the choice between the STI and the Smart, it's STI all the way, baby!

-Josh

Coletrickle - $18,500 was one of the best deals ever. (and that included $500 in heated seat option) This was during GM's employee pricing PLUS incentives. I didn't even have to haggle....

Josh,

I understand. Just know that even with me throwing rotten tomatoes at your post, I am envious of your job.

B

coletrickle, I want you to hit the pace car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-RNlgMLCuA
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j121/USCTrojan4JC/pace_car_perfect.jpg

MSRP is actually $37K:
http://www.edmunds.com/subaru/impreza/2009/index.html

$2,000 MSRP is *totally* worth it for ***forged 18" x 8" BBS wheels***. I'm not familiar with any other 18x8 forged wheels that one can get for less than $2K.

Suby - http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/WheelCloseUpServlet?target=runWheelSearch&initialPartNumber=CRS8848FA&wheelMake=SSR&wheelModel=Type+C+RS&wheelFinish=Anthracite+Painted&showRear=no&autoMake=Subaru&autoModel=Legacy+Sedan+2.5+GT+Limited&autoYear=2008&autoModClar=With+OE+Metal+Valve+Stems&filterSize=18&filterFinish=All&filterSpecial=false&filterBrand=All&filterNew=All&sort=Brand

SSR 18x8 forged wheels for $359 a piece....even without the sale, they are less than $500 per.

Nonetheless, your point is valid. For an OEM wheel, it's a good price. But whether or not it's worth it is another matter :)

Anything positive to say about the STI? nah didn't think so, must be the worst car out there...

Say it ain't so, Joe. That wheel is probably a firesale item because nobody wants it. =Þ Wasn't SSR going out of business last year or the year before, too?

Hey, I'm just trying to prove you wrong man. :)

Joe-

SSR are spin-forged technology. I don't know the details but it is a cheaper and simpler way to produce quality wheels. Enkei uses a similar but not exact way to produce their RPF1s. They are much better and light than cast, and pretty close to true-forged wheels that Rays and BBS produce. Ans they are definitely better in the price/performance category. The only issue I've heard of with SSRs are that there is some forum feedback that the rims damage easier...

Hmm, I haven't seen an American car that doesn't have a dead-pedal since my 1970 Cutlass. I'm not saying J.S. is wrong, as I simply haven't looked for a dead pedal in many American cars (Japanese, German, and Korean cars for that matter...) so I never new moderns cars wouldn't have a dead-pedal. Weird.

Actually Subytrojan, the wheels are 18x8.5 And they are a good deal at $2000 which includes foglights as well.

Although, even though they are forged, they are a little heavy at 20lbs. You can get a set of Rays wheels for $2500 that weigh in around 17lbs.

Now, you can stuff 18x9.5s under those huge fenders and run 275s or 285s with coilovers and larger swaybars which makes the STi into a formidable track car. I believe Cobb's STi pulled over 1g on the skid pad with just a change in tires, sways, and springs.

As for the deal pedal, happy I have one, never noticed any problem with it. Like any car, there are some that fit people, and some that don't. If you don't fit, move on and get something else, or just deal with the deal pedal. I had one car I didn't like the dead pedal, so I modified to to fit my foot better. Problem solved. 30min.

oops, 'dead' pedal, not 'deal' pedal. :)

SSR wheels are semi-solid forged, which is a different process than forging wheels (aluminum under pressure) but are still strong and light. Yes, I've heard of people bending their SSR wheels, along with just about any other wheel that's ever been produced! Just avoid potholes. :)

Totally right, tsy!!! :o) :thumbsup:

There are other cars with this problem.
Narrow footwells, and 3 pedals sort of guarantee little room for the feet.
The BMW X3, and Audi A3 are two coming to mind.

...and tsy's comments about Cobb are something to consider for those wanting to drive STI's mainly on the track. :-)

Dang, was it really that bad? I drove many cars, i thought this one was the best one i have driven...(including rx7, crx si, old m3, some porsche, etc.)

Bleh :)

Remember, the true cost is not $2000. Built into the cost of the vehicle is a set of 17 inch wheels and tires. You are paying $2000 to replace those with larger, lighter units and some foglights :)

@I_am_me

I like to think of it as "Man Bi*ching" ;)

@joefrompa

Actually the base STi has 18x8.5 wheels and the same tires, so the $2000 is purely replacing the worthless stock wheels (28lbs each!) with the BBS wheels + the foglights. Figure you can get a discount off MSRP on the option package and it's even less expensive. :)