2008 Cadillac CTS: Yes We Can

Maybe the squeaks will go away like the ones in our Odyssey did.

I didnt know the CTS V6 had a nice pronounced exhaust note as Ive never been close enough to a CTS that was accelerating to the point of it being obvious or noticable. How about an audio clip?

Regarding the Nissan/Infiniti exhaust notes, I do like them although they seem a bit too audiable in some applications.

Doesn't the squeak kind of qualify the car for the '...for an American car' qualifier when discussing build quality?

@hondaacura4,

Let's distinguish between engine and exhaust notes. Exhaust note, sure, Nissan/Infiniti's had that distinctive sound since the 350Z came out. By "engine note" I mean the sound coming at you from behind the firewall -- from the front of the car, not the back of the car. That's where the big VQ-series V6s fall short, and where the CTS is quite impressive.

I haven't noticed the CTS's exhaust note, but that's probably because there's not much of one.

-Josh

Is the CTS American? country first! lipstik! maverick! pitbull!. did i mention maverick?

Ya engine note I don't know.
But I love the 350Z/G35 exhaust note. It's the only car I can hear and pick out anywhere.

When I hear it, oh there's a Z/G nearby! Sweet. A very soothing sound it makes.

The LLT is a great sounding engine. The exhaust system on the Camaro makes it sound even better.

I hope HA4 is right about the squeaks going away. Its very rare that any LT car, foreign or domestic, can get this much praise with only one problem area.

are u a bobby jindal fan ie the yes we can lol

My 2004 Accord w/ 110,000 miles on it is as squeak-free and solid as the day I bought it home new. The 'Merican cars I have driven are, um, not.

^ I've driven plenty of "imports" and imports that rattle. I've also driven domestics that don't.

Furthermore, I have a feeling squeaks and rattles may be the least of your concerns shortly based on year and mileage.

^You mean a "concern" like the box hanging in the trunk of Insideline's Pontiac G8 GT?

...at 18k miles

The squeak/rattle issues are on Edmunds. Evidently, nobody realizes that THIS CAR IS UNDER WARRANTY.Every creak,squeak and buzz has been indentified so it should be no problem to identify every issue at a dealer.

Furthermore,General Motors hasn't turned out the lights, filed for Chapter 11 etc.. so warranties are still being honored.

So, in short go get the damn thing fixed.If the car had that many "savage" squeaks and rattles then it should be repaired. Complaining about it and not fixing it doesn't make the product better.

This car has a very long bumper to bumper warranty (4-50 I believe) so maybe the new owner will get it fixed if all else fails.

"My 2004 Accord w/ 110,000 miles on it is as squeak-free and solid as the day I bought it home new. The 'Merican cars I have driven are, um, not. "

Squeaks are in all kinds of cars. Please dont assume your one rattle free Accord proves that Japanese cars dont rattle. My car has no rattles so far. My previous car had one intermittent rattle in the headliner after 6 years.

Will this car ever go to dealer? Are there no CAddy dealers in SoCal?

Isn't the CTSs time almost up at IL?

The pic attached to this blog reminds me of the one flaw, imo, in the CTS design for this and the previous generation ---> the rear of the car seems to sit so high! I don't know if its higher then any other sedan, but it just...LOOKS high and it drives me nuts. Keep the front end, give the rear end a restyle please.

If I asked a dealer to fix a rattle on a car with over a couple thousand miles they'd look at me like I was insane.

^^ Agreed. I can produce several receipts from at least 4 separate dealers regarding a squeak in the dash of my 1999 Cherokee which was purchased new. None of them even attempted a fix, noting "no problem found" or something similar. 130,000 miles later, the squeak is still there (along with many more). On the other hand, my 1994 Accord (purchased over the summer) has one intemittent "ticking" where the (soft padded) dash meets the windshield. I think a book of matches would cure it.

its a Cadillac, if the seats squeak I would get it checked out. I would bet some fix has been developed by now.

Again, it's not just the seats that squeak, folks. We are talking basically the entire cabin (see the link to Magrath's post). It's a shame that such a good all-around car is being let down by build quality issues.

Look at our higher-mileage long-termers. Jetta TDI? Not a peep from the cabin. M3? Nothing noteworthy. These cars are years older than the CTS, they're approaching 70,000 miles, and in the M3's case, it's lived an extremely hard life.

Take a blindfolded ride in each car, and you'd guess the CTS was the one that's 4-7 years old with almost 70k on the clock.

Just sayin', that's a shame.

-Josh

Its unforturnate that this car is not up to par compared to the old German cars.

I have a feeling that CTS will be on the road for at least a little longer before its used at the Demo Derby or scrapped and melted down for use in making replacement parts for the 2005 Jetta one day...

Just sayin'

can any of the issues be rectified? Are there TSBs for any of the noises? BTW, most drivers have not mentioned these sqeaks. It seems like its driving some people crazy while others arent really noticing much.

Josh,

We know you are a German car fan, but any car can have noises. Just read the comments left here on the blog by owners of import cars- including German ones. To some degree I think noises are hit or miss. MT has a long term CTS and to my knowledge they have not noted any bothersome noises.

I checked out that list again to refresh my memory. I have to say I have never heard of any car with rattling rear seats or chrome rings around the gauges. The latter doesn't even make sense. Any way we can get audio of these issues? If these sounds are as bad as we are told lets get a video up. I do want to hear the chrome trim, rear seat and shifter rattles. I can tell you that numerous times when I thought my car was making noises it was stuff in the storage bins. When a car is quiet you notice every extra sound.

A door panel in my 2004 Jetta 1.8T rattles, and sometimes it sounds like something is bouncing around under the dash. The 2006 Legacy I had before that (sold it after 18 months and 14,000 miles...it just didn't work out on many levels) was a complete rattle-trap by the time I sold it. The 2008 CTS I just test-drove (about 15,000 miles) had creaky leather but was otherwise vault-solid.

Just because one example of X car rattles, doesn't mean all cars of those make and model will rattle. Conversely, just because one example of X car doesn't rattle, doesn't mean that no car of that make and model will ever rattle.

@mitlov,

Impeccable logic, but, we can only report on the cars we have, which leaves us two options in the case of squeaks/rattles/etc.: (1) Don't mention them, citing your argument, or (2) mention them. I'm a fan of (2), particularly when the issue in question is rare among our LT cars (the other notable squeakers and rattlers would be the STI and the DGC, I think).

As for me and the fatherland, it is coincidentally the case that the two older LT cars in regular circulation are of German origin. It also happens that they either don't squeak or rattle at all (Jetta) or do so to a far lesser extent than the CTS (M3), despite having almost three times the CTS' mileage. Noteworthy, I would say.

-Josh

My 06 BMW330i has the same miles as this CTS.
Zero squeaks. Ever.

Apparently you do get what you pay for.

@SadButTrue,

Of course you should report on what the specific test vehicle you have is doing, and not post blog entries based upon internet hearsay. The whole point of testing these cars is to give us your first-hand impressions. My post was not aimed at the Inside Line blog entry itself, but instead at people like desmolicious who are using a comparison between one particular Cadillac and one particular BMW to try to prove that BMW is a better company than Cadillac (the irony of an Italian motorcycle lover griping about build quality did put a smile on my face, though).

I will say, however, that Edmunds has had about three or four blog entries on the exact same topic, with no apparent attempt to fix it. Once you've had a blog entry on a particular issue, if nothing has changed (and no attempt to change it has been made), why keep repeating the issue?

I'm not a fanboy asking Edmunds to shy away from talking about any problems with the Caddy. As a potential CTS buyer, I'm very interested in both the car's strengths and its weaknesses. Please post a blog entry if a problem crops up. Please post a blog entry if you try to have the problem fixed (and what the result of that attempt is). But at what point do successive blog entries about the same issue, when nothing is changing, just become needless repetition?

Speaking of needless repetition, I just realized how repetitive this post is, so I'll stop now ;)

FYI my Ducati St4s has been flawless over the last 22K miles. It's fit and finish has been far superior to previous bikes.
My 02 Honda Wing 1800 suffered nunerous quality issues, including frame cracks and overheating. My other Honda motorbikes also suffered electrical issues (VFR, Wing 1200). My Suzuki sportbike was a basket case. My Kawi KLR650 had numerous issues.
So what's this about Italian bikes?

Anywho, back to cars. This is my 3rd BMW car, and they all have been squeal and rattle free. So I feel I can comment about build quality.

Mitlov,

I doubt the dealership would have much to tell us about the squeaks and rattles; it's rare that even a trusted independent mechanic will take the time to ferret out the noise-causing culprits and get rid of them, let alone a dealership.

But even if they would, the point for me is that one shouldn't have to worry about squeaks and rattles at 26k miles and two years old. That's the disappointing part. If it disappoints numerous people (as it clearly has), and they all feel compelled to post about it, well, that just emphasizes the significance of the issue.

For reference, check the STI blog -- I think you'll see numerous references there to its rattletrap qualities.

Josh

My 1997 Nissan Maxima has no squeaks or rattles at 175,000 miles, and I've tracked it and autocrossed it. I guess you do *get* what you pay for! It probably cost $15,000 less than a '97 325i, and its quicker and roomier. And I have only replaced brake pads twice. Just had to say that.

"That's where the big VQ-series V6s fall short, and where the CTS is quite impressive."

Josh, to be honest I havent been a huge fan of the VQ since the 3.0L 190-222hp versions that were in the late 90's Maxima and Infiniti I30. That VQ30 was smooth as silk and a great performer for its displacement.

The 3.5+ versions have a certain grit or grain from the inside that completely turned me off although Ive yet to sample the newer 3.7 VVEL.

By contrast, Hondas old V6, Toyota 3.5 and GMs 3.6s are more refined.

People on this blog have complained about the repetitive blogging about this rattling issue, but it is important to note that every blog has been by a different editor. I don't view this as needless complaining, but a sign that this issue is insipid enough that anyone who drives the car notices it. Not a good thing in an entry-level luxury car.

And to those that say it is an isolated incident I was talking with a CTS owner at the Chevron station the other day and he called his car "a rattle trap" (his words not mine), but he still loved it. That's the thing. The CTS is a fantastic car by nearly every measure. If GM just redesigned the interior with fewer small pieces it would be just about perfect.

Imagine putting the C300's cabin in the CTS (I know most people despise the design, but it is beautifully put together). You would have the perfect entry-level luxury car.

40k for this? I'd get a G sedan for less, better interior, better handling, true V6 snarl, better mileage, not to mention better looks as opposed to this square POS. Did I mention Infinti usually gets top scores for reliabilty as a luxury brand?

Note- Iam hoping a certain fanboy takes the bait here.

"Apparently you do get what you pay for."

I dont get it. The CTS isnt even much cheaper than a 3 series.

"Anywho, back to cars. This is my 3rd BMW car, and they all have been squeal and rattle free. So I feel I can comment about build quality."

If you notice, they have had no (or few) comments about rattles with the other GM cars in their fleet. Even the Aura they hated didnt get dinged for sqeaks and rattles. Same for G8, Enclave, Tahoe, etc. My point is there is no evidence that this is a widespread issue with GM products or the CTS. The fact that you have had a few BMWs without sqeaks doenst prove much of anything other than you were fortunate.

"But even if they would, the point for me is that one shouldn't have to worry about squeaks and rattles at 26k miles and two years old. That's the disappointing part. If it disappoints numerous people (as it clearly has), and they all feel compelled to post about it, well, that just emphasizes the significance of the issue. "

Thats a cop out answer. How do you know if TSBs or fixes dont exist if you dont ask the dealer? This is hardly the only car that has had issues with well under 30k miles (GTR anyone?) so don't get into the "its not acceptable on a car of this cost" soap box. I dont think the CTS has leaked any fuel or required a visit from engineers in Detroit to assess mechanical problems. You can have issues with ANY car within 26k miles, even one not made in Michigan. Also, it seems like two people are fixated on these noises. When the CTS was taken on a long road trip to Michigan I dont recall hearing much about rattles at all. Maybe you need great hearing to pick up on the chrome trim rattles. Who knows.

mercedesfan,

How many entries have been about this? How many editors have brought this up? Out of 80+ entries on the CTS maybe 3 are about noises specifically. I think its a stretch to say the rattles are a major concern for most drivers.

I'm still getting a CTS. All around, it's still a better car than 3 series. It's roomier, looks better, has a vastly superior interior design while costing the same. It's amazing how BMW owners try to affirm their expensive purchases by pointing out flaws on other vehicles as if every single car from Germany has never had a problem.
My Aunt's S430 was a nightmare and a friend of my mom's had a last generation BMW 328i convertible that was terribly unreliable. Does that mean EVERY MB and BMW vehicle is a piece of crap? Certainly not but let a single American car have an issue and people jump to all sorts of ridiculous conclusions.

My '05 Mazda3 had nary a squeek (but otherwise was a lemon) and my '07 Mazda3 has been problem free (mechanically) but has a squeeky interior. They both came from the same assembly plant and same production line in Hiroshima Japan so how do you explain the variation? The answer is you CAN'T. As 1487 said, if these cabin characteristics haven't occured any of the other recent LT GM vehicles, I do not understand how logic allows one to assume all GM cars have squeeky interiors. Of the GM cars I have access to, none of squeeking interiors and MotorTrend has not reported any issues on their LT CTS so, call it the luck of the draw.

"I doubt the dealership would have much to tell us about the squeaks and rattles; it's rare that even a trusted independent mechanic will take the time to ferret out the noise-causing culprits and get rid of them, let alone a dealership.

But even if they would, the point for me is that one shouldn't have to worry about squeaks and rattles at 26k miles and two years old. That's the disappointing part. If it disappoints numerous people (as it clearly has), and they all feel compelled to post about it, well, that just emphasizes the significance of the issue."

A truly asinine statement. If you have a good dealer service manager, they will try to diagnose any legitimate problem. If a lowly Mazda dealership service manager is willing to spend time with me a my $22k car to address my concerns, I'm sure you can find a Cadillac dealership to do the same.

The X5 and C class both have had issues in their first year and you did not hesitate to go for service but Edumnds has deemed squeeks and rattles to be unfit for the dealser service retification? That is total BS. Oh yeah, I forgot that MBs and BMWs are hand built and not subject to the accepted variances of mass production. Ofcourse the fact that the GT-R needed a Nissan engineer to fly from Japan to replace a transmission was viewed as a positive ownership experience. IL is becoming a joke.

"Imagine putting the C300's cabin in the CTS (I know most people despise the design, but it is beautifully put together). You would have the perfect entry-level luxury car. "

I dont think the CTS materials have anything to do with this. They clearly listed the supposed sources of the rattles and none were related to interior panels. The CTS is beautifully put together as is the C class. I dont think we have any idea what leads to rattles since they occur in cars with great materials and build quality as well as lesser cars. C&D had a long term GTI and said the dash was rattling almost from day one and they could never figure it out.

The C300 interior materials and design are crap relative to the CTS.

Regards,
Snake Doc

Mercedesfan wrote: "I don't view this as needless complaining, but a sign that this issue is insipid enough that anyone who drives the car notices it."

...except for Brian Moody ("Still into it," a couple blog entries down from this one). Also note his comment in that blog's discussion thread, "I've been driving this car for a week straight and I can honestly say I don't hear any rattles." That was at 25,700 miles, just 500 miles short of this blog entry.

That's the weirdest thing about this whole dispute. You've got a couple of editors who say that the rattles are a constant annoyance and a distraction and completely unacceptable, and one who says that the CTS still feels as tight as when it was new and that it doesn't rattle at all. I don't know what to make of that.

And as for the comparison between the C300's interior and the CTS's, having been in both, I much much MUCH prefer the CTS. And that was comparing a brand-new Merc to a year-old Caddy.

"But even if they would, the point for me is that one shouldn't have to worry about squeaks and rattles at 26k miles and two years old. That's the disappointing part. If it disappoints numerous people (as it clearly has), and they all feel compelled to post about it, well, that just emphasizes the significance of the issue."

I don't know whether the dealership would or would not try to fix the rattles, but I have to disagree on this assertion. The Honda Fit was not subject to this degree of indignant comment when its transmission failed during the first year. Or when the GT-R started leaking gasoline (probably the single most dangerous mechanical failure I've heard of in a long-term test car). By any yardstick, rattles are very minor in comparison, yet in this case they have been the subject of more editorial outrage.

mitlov,

I was thinking the same thing. Its like annoyance issues take precedence over reliability issues. I am also trying to figure out why the majority of drivers have made no mention of this cacophony of rattles in the CTS. If rattles werent apparent in a drive from LA to Detroit and back I dont know when they would be apparent.

Are tranny problems and fuel leaks acceptable on a $70k car? I guess so as long as the manufacturer flies out engineers and lets you take some pics in the service bay.