2008 BMW 135i: Textcast -- The One Against The World

I like the Camaro, but I think the interior looks terrible, and a lack of a navigation system is also a problem. I'd rather take a leftover 2008 328 in Monaco Blue/ Grey Leather/ Sport Package/ Manual Transmission/ HEated Seats/ Bi-Xenon Headlamps.

Please continue to make fun of the notion that car companies pay you off for positive reviews. It is simply ridiculous, just like those who suggest such things occur.

In the end its not about pure performance numbers or HP, its about where you wnat land in the performance spectrum. Some people prefer all out power over anything. Some prefer all out handling and some like a good balance of both with LOADS of refinement and civility.

Some people think because 2 vehicles have the same or similar numbers, they are equals. NOT the case as numbers dont tell you anything about how they achieve or execute those numbers. One could be downright crude while the other exudes refinement. Again it depends on what YOU prefer.

My choice between the Evo, STi and 135i? No brainer, the 135i. Why you ask? Similar performance as the 2 Rally cars but its delivered in a way the AWD terrors cant match. The refinement, build quality, civility among other things are areas the 135 shines as its built to a different although much higher standard. Keep in mind the Rally twins have many more compromises as their base economy trims start in the teens. Its obvious 135i levels of refinement clearly couldnt be on the list of engineering goals.

Does that make the Rally twins bad? Of course not. Great cars, just not for me.

Riswick: I'd still take the 135i. The Camaro is made by GM who unlike BMW hasn't provided me with my monthly bag of money.
Riswick: I also hate America. Vive la France!

Obviously. You live in California where they burn American cars in the street for fun.

I went through the same decision process recently. My 05 G35 Coupe with sport package and navi was going off lease. I had really grown to love the car over the 3.5 years I had it, but while the looks were there, the performance bar had clearly been moved. My decision process went as follows:

1. New G37 Coupe or Sedan - better engines, not different enough that I wanted to do it again. Plus, the potential for significant performance improvements really requires a turbo or supercharger kit. Didn't care to do that.

2. 370Z - Didn't want another 2 seater (already own a roadster) even if everything else about the car rocks

3. BMW 135i - Actually don't mind the looks from most angles. Friend bought his wife one and the car is a rocket for sure. But it was cramped inside for me. Makes good power with a flash or interceptor module, but after that, didn't see myself doing cams, downpipes, etc. on this car. BMW is also hitting back hard against modders. Also quite a bit more expensive than competing options. Long term maintenance was also a concern. If I was leasing again, this car probably would have been my choice though.

4. Subaru STI - Liked the wagon practicality, plenty of effective mods available too. Interior is actually pretty nice all things onnsidered. But didn't like the chassis, the looks still made me cringe at times, and there were better deals to be had on the competition.

5. Evo GSR - Not as practical as the STI, but the chassis is so much better. Easiest of the group to tune for more power (working on an inline 4 is a lot easier than a flat 4 or V6 in the Nissan cars). More practical than the 135 or Z. And while it is a whole new car, I expect _long term_ maintenance costs to be below what the 135 would show (as long as you don't do driveline abusing launches). But what really cinched it is that I was able to get a GS-R with the SSS package for $31,900 including destination (but not tax) with 0% financing over 60 months. Mitsu is hurting and the buyer benefits. I didn't even have to work hard to get that deal.

Since buying the car, I have fallen in love with the Recaros (and I'm not a small guy), the stereo from the SSS package is suprisingly good and gas mileage (even before flash tuning the ECU) has been pretty good, averaging nearly 18 mpg around town. Flash tuning picked up an extra 50 hp at peak and nearly 70 hp at redline, while making bottom end off boost performance and spool up much better.

Oh yeah, the only things that annoy me? The rear wing, which will be coming off along with a debadging of the trunk, and no 6th gear. But I can live with it as the 4B11 is relatively refined vs. the 4G63

i'd get a 370z sport at near invoice and pop a turbo kit on it. 550-650rwhp. stock internals.

for 40k.

then again you could do that with the camaro, nice stinger intake filter, long tubes, high flow cats, catback, supercharger and you'll be able to look at the same numbers the Z is having.

Does fuel economy come into play? Also, not all of us live in southern california where people suddenly freak out if it sprinkles! In many parts of the country that have more than one season a rear wheel drive car just isn't practical as a DD.

The 135i is just too ugly anyway. Granted, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but the thing looks like it has a potbelly. Certain colors do look better than others though.

If I just HAD to buy a bimmer I'd either buy the 328i or just save up for the 335i. (do americans remember how to save money?) Or even better, a 335ix. Maybe CPO? It would make the $40k cutoff.

If I cared more about luxury than performance, a G37x sedan auto (or regular G37 if you live in temperate climates). If you went light on options it would make the $40k cutoff. Would be easy to live with on a daily basis and could be fun when the roads get twisty.

If it was all about performance and forget comfort or trunk space, the Evo.

Of course, if you want the best compromise in terms of performance and daily livability/cargo space, IMHO it's hard to beat the STi. BTW, in terms of road noise, I've got my winter all seasons on and it muffles the road noise significantly. The road noise is better than a civic, maybe equal to an accord.

The new Camaro looks interesting, but why not shell out (save?) a little more cash for a Corvette? (especially for a heavily optioned SS?)

Of course, maybe the best Camaro is the V6 which would be under $30k. (What's the best car under $30k? :) )

We don't talk like that. None the less, humorous.

While the G8 is large, you guys looked at any of the L german land yachts lately?

I'd still take my car.... or maybe the GXP. Tough choice. What can I say, I love me some big cars. Nice pics btw.

Well, for me AWD is a must-have (hey, it rains year-round) if it's going to be a daily driver. So that rules out the 135. Also the 135's rear seat, which is designed for people with no legs, makes it a no-no. That plus I want a 4-door—no, make that a 5-door, makes the STI the clear choice for me in this crowd of vehicles being discussed.

Actually though, I bought a 5-door '09 WRX; so I guess I sorta put my money where my mouth is. I say "sorta" because I do agree that the STI is a bit too expensive, and it doesn't offer some of the amenities that I want, like a moonroof and the All-Weather-Package which my sub-$30K WRX has.

As to the practicality, I've already been to the county landfill several times with the back of my WRX loaded to the gills. Couldn't do that with a 135.

I recently had a total of five adults in my WRX, of which four of those survived a 400-mile trip just fine. If I did that with the 135, those riding in the back seat would no longer be friends of mine.

I can live with the hard plastic interior; I don't love it, but I don't hate it either—and in 5000 miles of driving, hasn't dug into my skin.

Styling is subjective, but I find the WRX and STI attractive (this is coming from someone who's been a professional designer since 1972, and who's taught in one of the nation's leading art colleges for over 13 years). But hey... you have every right to disagree; as I said, styling is subjective.

So, on balance, the 5-door WRX (or STI) is the no-brainer choice for me.

One more thing: What it all comes down to is what are your priorities? I obviously put a lot of value on practicality, be it hauling stuff, or people, or driving in all kinds of weather and road conditions.

I also "enjoy" driving a fun and sporty car. But when push comes to shove—for me, the items listed in the above paragraph rule.

Good point rsholland. I have a Tahoe I use for hauling large people or cargo. I have a 2-seat roadster for sunny weekends. My EvoX fits the bill for a semi-jack of all trades, all weather interceptor, daily use car. If I didn't have the Tahoe, then my needs may have pushed me more towards an STI.

BTW, I'm surprised at people saying the Evo isn't comfortable. I think my GSR rides better than my G35 Coupe with the Sport Package. And the seats are uber supportive and comfy. Mind you I haven't driven it more than 100 miles in a stretch yet, but they cradle my big frame quite well and don't pinch my hips.

I love textcasts!

This is the exact same conversation I had on the Camaro 5 forums yesterday after all the reviews came out. I like handling, but of course I love speed and burnouts too. Now the Camaro posts fine handling numbers, but my worry is exactly how Riswick put it: "I'm afraid driving the Camaro will be like running through a china shop with a water park inner tube around me." Since I drive on GMR often, having that small car nimbleness is really important to me, but the Camaro is gorgeous, and those numbers are simply stunning. And it seems to me that the Camaro should drive smaller than its actual size would suggest, since Edmunds drivers said the G8 felt smaller than it was in the twisties. I'd love to have something 135 size, or even 335 size, but its ugly and I simply can't afford BMW maintenance. And the Camaro is simply awesome. So there's my dilemma, thank you very much. I'll be going out to test the Camaro soon. Hopefully it falls in line closer to the Mustang than the Challenger in terms of bulkiness. If not, maybe I'll have to take a second job to afford that BMW maintenance.

Fantastic post. Please keep these coming!

jkp1187, stop fooling yourself. Practically every car company out there has gone to various governments hat in hand, for loans that last I checked were put to use building stuff, not handing out bonuses. Everyone's sales are cratering, GM's slightly more so because the media, in their desperate attempt to rid America of a domestic industry, constantly blather on about bankruptcy but never indicate that Ch. 11 doesn't mean the company is going out of business and that it will essentially be business as usual for customers and owners.

Adavis, so you'd rather pay thousands of dollars to get exactly what you can get for $200 from Garmin, and for that reason you wouldn't get the Camaro? Wow. And it does have navigation, just not the traditional format we're used to.

By the way, I laughed really hard at the line about bags of money from BMW. Well played Riswick. And Sadlier, good find on the Gold Chain Lane.

well, i also agree with the 4 door GTI, as i bought one as my daily driver. (and i'm taking it to the track soon in stock trim) however, it is far too slow and traction limited to suite my needs as an only car.

i'd get a 135i if i had to choose 1 car and 1 car only. a chip upgrade and exhaust will take car of most of my acceleration needs. (as it will satisfy the quiet complaint) and it is small in stature and nimble handling like the GTI. the interior is sadly worse, but its still better than an STI or EVO.

i'm still awaiting the R32 replacement, utilizing the 2.0T engine, just cranked up a notch. now that would be worthy of taking top honors...

If practicality and sportiness was my biggest concern, I would get a G37. No better bargain out there at the moment.

"BTW, I'm surprised at people saying the Evo isn't comfortable. I think my GSR rides better than my G35 Coupe with the Sport Package. And the seats are uber supportive and comfy. Mind you I haven't driven it more than 100 miles in a stretch yet, but they cradle my big frame quite well and don't pinch my hips."

The sport package in the G sedan gives the harshest ride I have encountered in a luxury sedan, there is no denying the great handling though. Most people are using the old EVOs as an example for saying it doesn't ride well. The X is a lot more refined than people are giving it credit for. The MR gives an even better ride than the GSR.

I too would take a 328i with the sport package. That engine, although weaker than the twin turbo, is still plenty strong and smooth as butter. And, it sings a happier tune.

Something looks off here with the 1's right headlight. That corner piece looks bent.

ace,

Saying the MR has a better ride than the GSR is kind of like saying the Prius is faster than the Civic Hybrid -- true, I suppose, but let's keep things in perspective here. I've criticized our 135i's ride in the past for not measuring up to the 3 Series', but compared to the 135i, the Evo X MR rides like a skateboard, crashing and jiggling over bumps and ruts that the 135i would take in stride. That's one of the reasons why we concluded that the 135i is the no-brainer choice (over Evo/STI) if you need a daily driver.

-S.B. True

I'd take a mustang gt with a manual transmission and tons of options if you asked me, which no one does :(

Apparently excellent handling, actually made in the US (none of this made in Canada off of mercedes and holden platforms), and a soft touch cabin (take that 135 and camaro). Also, Ford rates it to tow up to 1000lb, so it could still tow my motorcycle. A sportscar that can tow my sportbike! Hows that for practical!

Funny you should mention towing. Up until MY 2007 (last generation model), Subaru rated the the STI and all Imprezas for 2000 pound towing (1000 w/o trailer brakes).

The current generation Impreza is not rated for towing by SOA, yet it's still rated for towing overseas. Go figure...

I like how it somehow narrowed down between the Camaro SS and the 135i haha. I went through a similar thought process involving many of the same cars, though it was over a year ago. I know the 135i isn't perfect, but it suits me in more ways than one.

Also on the noise of the engine can be fixed easily with 130 dollars and a BMW dual cone intake. Or maybe 110 bucks and Riss Racing some scoops. Makes it sound great and permeate the cabin much much better.. also adds a few horses ;]

STI > 135i :o)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=froT98RyeDk

"the Evo X MR rides like a skateboard, crashing and jiggling over bumps and ruts that the 135i would take in stride."

Except some of us like skateboard, crashy and jiggly rides. We don't give a hoot about refinement and all that. It shows we are still young and less prone to back injuries. Your point still stands valid though. I suppose it comes down to preference...

What I meant was that every time we read about the EVO X, we are told about the harsh ride even when there is no other car to compare it to (don't try denying that). Would it really take so much time to write something like, "the ride although better than its predecessor is still harsh"?

What we normally read is, Ride is nasty, ride is crap, ride is garbage. The ride quality has improved considerably over the last generation and it would be nice to read about it instead of the numerous comparisons against the 135i. I think everyone knows that BMWs have the best riding and sporty suspension in the business.

Should be noted that the JDM STI in the video has a 2.0L engine with a twin-scroll turbo, and an 8K redline. Power, however, is pretty close to our 2.5 STI.

It also has a super-quick 13:1 steering ratio (ours has a 15:1 steering ratio) and Recaros.

Don't say that, Bob! STI vs. 135i on a road course. Nobody has done it yet. :( Motor Trend did pit the 1er against the Evo, however.

Only one car for every day, in this price range... I'd have to go with the G8. Can I get a GXP under $40K? Even a GT would be alright.
A thousand apologies for my repulsive typical American attitude, but if I can only have one vehicle I want reliability, plenty of room, a little more power than I need, and I don't give a sh!t if my pastics are hard or soft. I just want it fast enough to have fun on a public road, comfortable for the daily commute and vacations/road trips, and room for the kids in back. The G8, to me, is a value priced 545i or M45. Not that I don't love them, but I simply have no need for a sports car.

Now, if I could have any TWO cars, one would be my wife's Suburban, and the other would be an M3. By the time I get to the Evo or Camaro, it's like the 4th or 5th vehicle in my imaginary fleet. Maybe I'm just too practical, even in my imagination.

I clicked the Gold Chain link. It's situated near Fish Camp, Mormon Bar, and Ben Hur. It's southeast of the real Dogtown and northeast of Chowchilla, which sounds like some freakish hybrid animal. Awesome. :)

"By supergoji on March 22, 2009 10:15 AM
i'd get a 370z sport at near invoice and pop a turbo kit on it. 550-650rwhp. stock internals.

for 40k."

Ha! Keep dreaming buddy. To get a twin turbo Nissan VQ to put out 550-650 rwhp and actually hold together well will cost you $40k for JUST THE ENGINE and drivetrain. I know, I used to own a VQ. They cannot handle major power increases on stock internals, or even with the stock block. This is why Nissan had to build the GT-R's engine from the ground up, and it's putting down far less than 550-650rwhp.

Not to mention the rest of the 370Z's drivetrain, particularly it's clutch and transmission, can barely handle the stock power levels.

So you tell me if it makes sense to put $40k in engine and drivetrain upgrades into a $38k car. I say you'd have to be crazy.

You CAN however, bolt an STS twin turbo kit on a GM LS3 V-8, and put down 550 rwhp on stock internals and drivetrain, and keep it reliable. Been done many times before. Costs about $7k - $9k, installed.

why are people so obsessed with a car being small? If the camaro looks good, goes fast and stops like a Porsche why would I care if its 8" longer than a $50k S5? It doesn't drive like its much bigger so why would the dimensions be a big deal? The camaro even has a reasonable turning circle. To me the 135's size is one reason why It doesnt look like its worth more than $25k. Its got no style and its the size of a civic. The Camaro has big car presence and will turn heads. Sadlier was making much more sense in the conversation. Some folks are so consumed with Euro envy that they are convinced that anything larger than a Mini is a "big" car. The Camaro is 5" shorter than an Accord and the same length as a 5 series. Its also shorter than the 2009 TL and Mazda 6.

First off, driving a RWD car in the rain/snow doesn't make me pee my pants, so AWD isn't a requirement. As for vehicle size, I prefer small, light, and nimble cars. Always have. If I wanted a track rat I'd take the 135i or 370Z. I'd consider a G8 for a daily driver if a stick was available on the GT.

The 135 is basically a 2-seater. Unless you don't have legs you aren't fitting in the back.

I have a 335 Coupe and it's a nice fit. And considering the size difference and performance difference I think it's a better value than the 135.

I got mine with MT, Sport, and IPOD for 43K which isn't that far away from the 2/3 135 and the performance is pretty much the same.

I just drove the 370Z and loved it, but I have an old 280Z.

The Camaro is a big car, I saw one on a movie lot and was surprised how big it was, but we live in AMERICA we don't really need little cars and despite what most people think they still take turns.

Everybody always acts like they are driving the Streets of Willow at 140mph...going around an on ramp at 70 is 7/10 of what most cars can do. Your balls run out before the car in most cases.

If a Camaro is too big, buy a Cobalt SS.

You can almost buy two Cobalt SS's for the money of one 135i.

There's tons of aftermarket stuff for the Cobalt SS.

Think of what you can do to a Cobalt SS for $30k.

Have I said Cobalt SS enough times yet?

For my money, I would buy the BMW 135i. The Cobalt SS is for high schoolers.