I rolled in the R8 this weekend for the first time in a while. I have, though, have been fortunate to spend some time in the GT-R. Let's compare a few items:
1. Although both are AWD, the R8 has a rear-drive feeling. The handling is light and neutral, while in the R35, you can feel the front wheels clawing away, following nearly every rain-groove in the pavement. On the R35, it's not a heavy steering feeling, but you can definitely feel the fronts contributing to forward progress.
2. On the R8, it's easy to light up the rear tires: they'll break free and spin a decent bit just by mashing the A-pedal. Yes, you can get some rear tire spin on the R35, but it will be less than on the R8, before the VDM kills it.
3. Transmissions: the R35 dual-clutch is amazingly good: a monkey can shift it positively and quickly. And I never longed for a manual. The only good thing about the R8's 6-speed R-tronic auto-shifted-manual mess is that it doesn't make crunching noises as on the R35. It's also hard for the R8 driver to control the severe back and forth pitching in the lower gears. Annoying.
I've never driven an R8 with a manual transmission, but it must be really nice, as the R-tronic (and some reliability issues) is the only major shortcoming on this beautiful and great-to-drive car. Well, that and the $120K price tag.
Albert Austria, Sr Vehicle Evaluation Engineer @ 29,151 miles
[Photo by Scott Jacobs: This was awarded the cover of the 2009 Motor Press Guild Media Guide.]
altimadude00 says:
03:08 PM, 03/ 2/09
Congratulations to Scott for winning the award.
altimadude00 says:
03:09 PM, 03/ 2/09
Strike that....For winning the cover.
the_big_al says:
03:19 PM, 03/ 2/09
the photo rocks... One of the best photos I have seen, and you guys have some really good photos here.
m_thrizzle says:
03:39 PM, 03/ 2/09
Great photo, Scott! What lens did you use?
louiswei says:
04:17 PM, 03/ 2/09
That photo is SICK!!
eclogite says:
05:22 PM, 03/ 2/09
That's a totally awesome photo. Just beautiful. Way to go, Scott!
santiagofdz says:
05:36 PM, 03/ 2/09
Stunning pic!
carlisimo says:
06:09 PM, 03/ 2/09
Great scott, that photo!
tyndago says:
07:47 PM, 03/ 2/09
Thats a great picture.
greenpony says:
08:38 PM, 03/ 2/09
Hate to sound like a broken record, but that photo is awesome.
CaptainChaos says:
09:37 PM, 03/ 2/09
I'm certainly no expert, but I'd say that the difference you are feeling is no accident. The R8 runs a 10/90 front/rear split, with a max of 35% going to the front when absolutely needed. Plus, from what I've read, the R8 was designed to be a little tail happy and more lenient with respect to ESP. I don't know what the GT-R's normal ratio is, but I suspect it is something considerably more dynamic with a higher front bias bordering on nearly 50%, which seems to jive with the clawing you mentioned.
With respect to following the rain grooves in the road, I think that this is possible in any RWD, properly-shoed and well-balanced vehicle. Admittedly, though, the clawing and tracking is probably considerably more noticeable and functional in an AWD car
Also, yes, that is a great photo.
ace47 says:
11:42 PM, 03/ 2/09
^^ It is 50-50 for the GT-R. 98-2% in normal driving.
"On the R8, it's easy to light up the rear tires: they'll break free and spin a decent bit just by mashing the A-pedal. Yes, you can get some rear tire spin on the R35, but it will be less than on the R8, before the VDM kills it."
Isn't that the purpose of AWD? To provide maximum grip? So how does that make it a pro for the R8?
CaptainChaos says:
12:14 AM, 03/ 3/09
I'm not sure what Albert's reasoning was with respect to the R8's penchant to let the rear dance out a bit, but if I had to guess it has something to do with the love to flirt with death that lives within every warm-blooded human being whether they realize it or not. Sure, going stupid fast in straight lines and through sweeping corners is fun, but if thats all I was interested in I'd probably have a street bike of some sort. Heck, you could pretty easily put together a sub-12s drag car for less than $10k if that was your drug of choice.
Perhaps thats why I find well designed RWD cars, or AWD cars that don't totally chastise the enthusiast, so appealing. You can push your limits nearly all day, the car likely won't fail and you'll have a great time doing so. That is, of course, until you put technology in the back seat and disable DTC/DSC/ESP/ABC, and then you (and only you) control what prevents you from creating a $40k+ omelette of blood, brains and sheet metal against some remote canyon wall.
carmizvi says:
03:08 AM, 03/ 3/09
This photo deserves a few other awards, too...even before I read about the cover, the pic had already implanted itself in my brain as one of the most stunning compositions I'd seen in ages.
Nice comparison of the two philosophies. I'd love to see if you could get a bit of seat time in a manual-stick R8 just for the purposes of comparison.
dougtheeng says:
06:17 AM, 03/ 3/09
Great pic, congrats.
felonious says:
08:49 AM, 03/ 3/09
This picture sucks.
Just kidding. :) I just like to be different.
SnakeDoctor says:
02:43 PM, 03/ 3/09
ace, Chaos:
"Isn't that the purpose of AWD? To provide maximum grip? So how does that make it a pro for the R8?"
and
"I'm not sure what Albert's reasoning was with respect to the R8's penchant to let the rear dance out a bit, but if I had to guess..."
Hmmmmmm...check out this vid for your answer:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=125968
And the answer is: burnouts and powerslides are good!!
Regards,
Snake Doc
ace47 says:
11:30 PM, 03/ 3/09
Snake Doc- but thats why there are rear wheel cars in the world. Comparing AWD for burnouts is quite silly. The only AWD car I know that can pull that off properly is the STi.
I suppose I should be thankful they didn't compare the 1 series to these two cars.