2009 Nissan 370Z Touring: Introduction

Nice car :] While I do own the 135i, the 370z is a car I love in many ways. And it's performance is truly comparable to a stock 135i. While I have upgraded my 1er to 350 HP + 360 ft/lbs, please keep me updated, as I might just need to add this to my garage once I get more money :]

It's no 300zx with the t-tops, but it's probably the only new Nissan I would even consider. Gotta love that they're trying to get back to the fairlady roots and minimized the model bloat.

Also, being a Nissan, I'm sure a pencil-pusher somewhere wanted to stick that be-damned "sporty" CVT in this car. A small prayer to whatever/whomever quashed that thought.

fugly, I can't believe anyone thinks this thing looks good.

This thing looks amazing.
Too bad the RX-8 looks terrible after the refresh.

140 treadwear... what is that change tires once a week?

this car is on my short list. along with the 335i coupe.

I'm eager to read the blog reports on this car!

Awesome ... here's looking forward to some awesome posts from you guys

Awesome! I expect lots of blogs on this car! I've been a huge fan of the 350Z since I saw the pre-production model at the auto show, and this one looks even better (I think I'm finally getting used to the boomerang headlights and the bulldog fangs in the front grill).

Even though I'll never be able to afford one of these (Canadian price of Edmunds' LT model is $48,133 before the obligatory dealer markup and 12% sales tax) I'm still looking forward to the reports of daily life with the 370Z.

I love everything except those fangs; maybe there will some kind of aftermarket grill you can install that blocks out the fangs. The interior looks like a serious step up from the last car.

Always pleased when a new car caters to the enthusiasts. I understand why they do it, but there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to get Nav on the base model.

"I've got a buck that says someone misreads the fuel lights and runs out of gas."

Not likely. If it's anything like my Armada the low fuel warning will come on with 3-4 gallons left in the tank. It also will have a low fuel light on the guage, the orange triangle lights up, it takes over the multifunction display unless overridden and, if equipped, throws a warning message up on the nav screen!

Love the new Z! I'm overcome with envy!!! Are you guys hiring? :)

This was one of the true surprises to me at the car show this year: I loved it far more than I expected, and wound up spending about 3-5 minutes examining it's nooks and crannies.

I am truly impressed by what Nissan did with this model.....they improved everything I could see (and the paper specs) while REMOVING weight and making it more of a sports car. Rarely has a manufacturer pulled that off successfully, but it appears Nissan has done so.

My days of potentially owning a 2-seater have been relegated to about 10 years from now (3+ car garage, income-a-plenty), I am fascinated by this new Z the way the Boxster evolution fascinates me.

I look forward to hearing the comments on the shifter/clutch, ride quality, and 3.7 liter in this application. I really disliked the old shifter/clutch, ride quality, and the 3.5 liter in the 350z actually felt crappy to me....it wasn't exciting at all. Which was weird, cause I liked it in the G35.

Anyhooo....keep us appraised :)

I saw one of these on the road the other day, and I have to say that it looked pretty darn cool. Can't wait to see what IL thinks of it over the next year.

Thanks for picking a legit vehicle that some of us might actually own one day, (as opposed to the poser, overpriced, electronically advanced but soul-less "marvel" that is the GT-R).

Nissan looks like they nailed it with this Z.

Excellent. Though I'm an M3 owner, the Z cars have been faves since I was a kid in the 70s. Probably the second car I ever really loved (first was the Corvette).

Looking forward to the reviews.

I'm glad you guys dropped the charade that you 'purchased' the car when it was in fact given to you by Nissan.

Saw one at the Autoshow earlier this week and absolutely LOVED it. Glad you have added one to your fleet and REAL gad you got the stickshift / Sport package combo. Looking forward to your ongoing impressions.

I'll be honest, I was definitely disappointed that it doesn't look more different from the 350z. I'm not saying it doesn't look good, but I really don't think it differentiates itself enough. I'm sure the interior quality is an improvement, but thats not hard considering how awful the 350z was inside.

YES! Thanks Edmunds. Looking forward to this.

I would have much rather seen a Genesis coupe since its a brand new entry. The Z is pricey and well known. I can only assume a camaro is on the way later this year. I would like to see a Mustang as well.

I would have much rather seen a Genesis coupe since its a brand new entry. The Z is pricey and well known. I can only assume a camaro is on the way later this year. I would like to see a Mustang as well. I know we have to maintain the 70/30 import/domestic split so we likely cant have both.

I'm looking forward to this. I'd like to know how those of you who really know how to drive a stick and are used to doing your own throttle blipping will like the syncro rev match. Particularly on a track. I do like that it can be turned off, just in case you don't happen to like it.

On a semi-related note, I am also surprised that you don't have a Genesis yet.

Also looking forward to GTR comparisons. Is it, like the Cayman is to the 911, 90% of the fun for 50% of the money?

Ahightower - I'm wondering if this syncrorev match programming will actually result in a fair increase in clutch life on these torque-monsters. Like 20%. I'm a fairly apt rev-matcher, but I'm not dead-on every time, I'm just 80-90% of the way there.

I don't know that I'd call anything at $40k affordable as the intro piece does, but other than that this will be fun.

We've had our first drive of it and came away impressed: http://www.drivingenthusiast.net/sec-blog/2009/02/15.html#a2586
It's improved in almost every area, but it's more Infiniti than Fairlady Z.
-Jeff
DrivingEnthusiast.net

$40k is affordable when you have an R8 and X5 in your fleet and are regularly exposed to pricey luxury vehicles costing way more than this Z. Most Americans would not consider it affordable however, especially for an impractical 2 seater with 7 cu ft of trunk.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but it starts around 32-33k, right?

That seems fairly reasonable in this segment for what it offers.

Bear in mind that they "had to have" the $3000 sport package including a set of forged Rays wheels.

I saw this article and the first thing I said was "sweet!"

Yes, out loud, at my computer screen. Thank you edmunds.

Good choice. I really like the rev-match feature - that was a great idea.

It will be interesting to see if Nissan finally fixed the clutch issues with this transmission. It is a great transmission with a horrible and weak clutch. I know, I had one in an '03 G35 Coupe 6MT I used to own. Edmunds had similar clutch issues with their manual G35 sedan, and a previous 350Z manual (maybe that was Motor Trend - can't remember).

Nice pick. It's a car I'll consider when my son takes the X3 to college- unless he gets a full scholarship, in which case his college fund will be used to nab a nice GT3.

Since my BMW was totaled the other day, I was considering the 370Z. I sat in one at the dealer the other day and unfortunately it's got less room than the 350Z. My knees were jammed in the steering wheel, hair brushing the roof (and I don't have much hair), and the bottom side bolsters were jamming into my thigh. I was very uncomfortable after messing around in the interior for 5 minutes. Ah well, back to my other options...E46 M3, CPO 335i, or '09 G8 GT.

Roadburner - Can you contribute to my college fund? I'm applying for an MBA at Villanova within the next few months. :)

Stingray - I thought the clutch issue was resolved like 12-18 months ago with a new slave cylinder/associated bits....

For $40k I would take a 335i or G8 GXP since both are as fast and far more practical. The Z is lighter and more nimble but I would give that up to have space to spread out (well in the G8 at least) and some utility. I sat in the Z and the Genesis coupe and honestly the Z's interior wasnt much better. Both were decent and both had a mixture of soft touch panels and hard plastics. The Genesis didnt feel as low to the ground and was easier to enter and exit. I think the Z is going to have a a tough road with three cheaper competitors soon to be on the market.

1487 - I agree that the Genesis Coupe had an impressive showing. My friend, an absolute die-hard GM/American car guy, got to the car show 30 minutes before me....when I arrived, he quite literally dragged me to Hyundai because he couldn't believe he was saying "I would buy this".

I think the Z caters to a much more "sports car" crowd than "grand touring" crowd. Don't get me wrong, I bet the Genesis is a great on the road....I just think the Z makes less apologies for it's various sacrifices....whereas the Genesis allows for the back seat :)

I'm still so impressed by Nissan substantially cutting the weight on this car. That is so rare nowadays, and so refreshing.

BTW - Who are the other 2 new competitors to the Z? I'm a little out of it, so excuse me if I'm missing the obvious.

What you call "sacrifice" I call easy to live with. I wouldnt mind trading in a brittle ride for a little more ride comfort in a sports coupe. My real point is that the Genesis is MUCH cheaper than the Z. The loaded V6 Genesis coupe is $29,500 with the manual and has everything the Z has except navigation. Compare that to $40k for the Z.

The Camaro and Mustang are the other two cars I am talking about. The Camaro starts at only $24k and gives you 300hp. It wont be as fast but that is FAR cheaper than the base Z and the Camaro gives you a small backseat and a decent trunk. Considering the state of the economy and the auto market I can see the lower prices of the Camaro and Genesis being a positive thing relative to the Nissan. I'd buy a G37 before I spent $40k on a Z. The G looks better, has a backseat and a better warranty.

Nissan really didnt cut the weight on this car. They said the body weighs less but the overall car is just as heavy because they added larger wheels and brakes and more features. They basically held the line on curb weight.

Arg, this stupid new comment system ate my post!!

In brief:
-You only selectively enforce your mission of providing the true ownership experience because you buy over optioned cars.
-This is a sports car, and the young buyers will be stretching to buy it as cheap as possible. That = base + sport package.
-The vast majority of cars are sold WITHOUT nav.
-For all the "improvements" the base model still has a terrible interior, and I'd much rather read about that than more nav glitches.
-If anything the extra weight of the touring model is a drawback.

- and by "new comments system" I mean the one thats been here for months now that I'm still hoping will go away.

"Roadburner - Can you contribute to my college fund? I'm applying for an MBA at Villanova within the next few months. :)"

I haven't checked the fund lately; it's probably worth less than a Boxster now :(
On a much brighter note, I'm still looking at that 540i 6 speed- the dealer has dropped the price to the point that I think I can get it for $1,500+the MS3, OTD. I just need to find some nice summer wheels and tires...

MSRP - $40,320 = Ouch

roadburner, I suppose you should give joefrompa the details of the E39 540i as I know he was interested in one, too. Is it MY2001+? I like the clears on the post-facelift E39s.

"MSRP - $40,320 = Ouch"

Just so you know that one can get a leftover '08 335i coupe sport/premium for $37k.

^ who cares about a 335i when you can have this SEXY Nissan!

I would take the 08 BMW. Better looking outside, more refined and more space. For all the hype over the new 370Z interior its still clearly a Nissan interior. Its not like you would mistake it for an Audi or something now.

"Is it MY2001+? I like the clears on the post-facelift E39s."

It's a 2003, which means it has the M bodykit; it looks like an M5. If I buy it I'm going to remove the 540i emblem and replace it with a 520d badge...;)

Haha....yeah, I'm supposed to get my bonus/merit increase in a few weeks (my company grew ~10% in 2008) and I'm considering whether 09 is the year I trade in the Civic SI. It's about to hit 60k miles, so I've already maximized the depreciation on it :)

Road - You'll know how rare this was, having researched the 540s. There was, about 20 miles from here, an Alpine White 2003 540i 6-speed, fully optioned, with comfort seats and the "jade stone" interior individual option....which means the seats were almost white and the rest of the interior was black. The dealer apparently just sold it to someone out west for ~17k.

I think I'm going to step out for a bit now and go check out a local e39 for sale....hehe

1487 - I understand why the mustang/camaro are seen as competitors to the 350z, I just don't think I'd compare them personally. 2-seaters that are pretty much track-ready off the showroom floor are a pretty different breed, IMHO.

Muscle Cars vs. Sports Cars. Although I am hoping the Camaro may handle well enough to blur the lines, regardless of how much it weighs.

370Z is sexy? It looks like an ugly duckling when parked right besides a 3-series coupe...

If you're so intent on an "American" alternative you should be comparing this car to the solstice and other 2-seaters, not muscle cars.

1487 Why do you read this site?

"Muscle Cars vs. Sports Cars. Although I am hoping the Camaro may handle well enough to blur the lines, regardless of how much it weighs."

337, Im pretty sure that GM stated they used the Infiniti G37S coupe as a benchmark for the Camaros handling targets. The new Camaro should easily shed its image of being a 1 demensional performance car as its chassis (although modified) is also underpins the awesome driving CTS.

"Road - You'll know how rare this was, having researched the 540s. There was, about 20 miles from here, an Alpine White 2003 540i 6-speed, fully optioned, with comfort seats and the "jade stone" interior individual option....which means the seats were almost white and the rest of the interior was black. The dealer apparently just sold it to someone out west for ~17k."

That IS a rare one, Joe; Individual cars are few and far between. The car I'm looking at is Topaz Blue with gray leather. The only options on it are DSP and the Cold Weather Package. It's a two owner car with 77,000 miles on it and a full service history. The only downside is that the last owner kept the staggered 18" M Parallel wheels. It currently sits on 17" Borbets fitted with Pilot Alpin snows, so I'm looking at up to @$2200 to fit replacement tires and wheels. That said, I think $1500+the MS3 would get the car OTD. The dealer has had it on the lot for a little over a month with no takers- probably because most of the local BMW owners("drivers" is much too generous a term) prefer their Bimmers in black or silver only. Fitted with a slushbox, of course...

I checked out the new Camaro at the Autoshow. That thing is absolutely H-U-G-E. It makes the Accord look svelte by comparison. And the interior was.. let's see... um.. what's the word... oh yeah: crap.

Re. "1487 Why do you read this site?"

You mean you haven't figured that out yet?

1) to rag on avery Japanese-branded car posted;
2) to complain full time about the short-shrift given domestic cars by everyone who won't agree that they are JUST AS GOOD OR BETTER than the Japanese brands;
3) to advance shaky conspiracy theories on the good reviews heaped on those Japanese brands (paid off by the manufacturer, mindless acceptance of unwarranted good reputation.. etc.)
4) most of all, whenever a Japanese car is added to the fleet, he is here to insist it should not have been and to point to a domestic competitor that should have been.

I'm glad the Z is here. I also wouldn't mind seeing the Genesis Coupe - but I wouldn't prefer it.

If they added a Camaro to the fleet that probably wouldn't interest me much - but then I would largely remain ABSENT from those blogs, choosing to spend my time reading about those cars that DID interest me, instead of hanging around like a bad odour, constantly snivelling about how much I didn't like / care about the car.

@honda-I agree, it has the good bones from the CTS. But the CTS weighs somewhere around 3,900lbs (curb), if I remember correctly. I don't know for sure but I thought this Z was much closer to 3,300lbs. From my experience, you tend to "feel" an extra 600lbs when taking a corner... Got my fingers crossed though, 400lb/ft of torque can make you forgive a lot.

Note: I know the Camaro will not weigh as much as the CTS.

I'm still waiting on:

Hyundai Genesis
Dodge Ram
Dodge Challenger
MB GLK
VW CC

Just please don't get some sort of aftermarket tuned 350z....

I'm glad you guys added this car to the fleet. I've been dying to get more of a real daily driving review of this car. It's one of the cars that I am considering.

"most of all, whenever a Japanese car is added to the fleet, he is here to insist it should not have been and to point to a domestic competitor that should have been."

Yup, the Genesis is a Detroit product which is why I said one should be added. You are on to something jeager- excellent work. No fooling you I see. My point is simple, there are numerous interesting options out there from the domestics and Hyundai that should be added but all we seem to get are BMWs, Hondas, Nissans and EVOs. Its a simple point and many agree. Try and process that for a while- don't hurt yourself though.

Benson:

I'm here to learn from people like you that have so much insight to offer. Isnt it obvious?

Joe:

Z is not track ready- hence the track package. I think its a little much to say any two car is "track ready" based on door count. The Mustang, Z and Genesis all offer track packages with upgrades to enhance handling.

hondaacura:

CTS and camaro have little in common. Camaro is on modifed version of Zeta chassis that underpins the G8/Commodore. CTS has more sophisticated suspension and smaller dimensions. Only Cadillacs use the sigma platform.

I guess the're making the Camaro in Korea these days then?

"I checked out the new Camaro at the Autoshow. That thing is absolutely H-U-G-E. It makes the Accord look svelte by comparison."

With the exception of the Corvette, all of the American RWD cars are big and somewhat porky. The 540i I'm looking at is no featherweight, but at least it weighs less than 3800 pounds, is less than 190" long, and seats four comfortably.

"I checked out the new Camaro at the Autoshow. That thing is absolutely H-U-G-E. It makes the Accord look svelte by comparison. And the interior was.. let's see... um.. what's the word... oh yeah: crap."

The camaro is actually shorter than the Accord so I'm not sure how it dwarfs the Honda. the V6 is less than 100lbs heavier than the Accord. I agree the interior isnt luxurious but I'm not shocked considering the price. I'm not shocked that you dont like the car though.

This is just a 370z intro post and the arguments have already begun. LOL! 60% of the posts don't even pertain to the original intent. This is going to be a fun year.

"I guess the're making the Camaro in Korea these days then?"

Yes on same assembly line as the Aveo. You're a sharp one jaeger.

"With the exception of the Corvette, all of the American RWD cars are big and somewhat porky. The 540i I'm looking at is no featherweight, but at least it weighs less than 3800 pounds, is less than 190" long, and seats four comfortably."

Not Mustang. The V8 weighs about 3600lbs. Solstice GXP is like 3100lbs. Challenger is very heavy though.

BTW 1487 - The 370z starts at $30.5k including destination, xenon headlights, keyless entry (or "intelligent key"), and 18" wheels.

With Sport package you are at 33k.

You kept repeating 40k for a 370z so many times I had to check it out...

Speaking of checking out....why on earth would you assume I meant "track ready" based upon door count? That's pretty foolish. The mustang GT (current format) is not track ready until you get into some more serious trim levels (i.e. 40k and up)

and while I was checking it out, can you point out the track package to me? I know the 350z had it, but it doesn't appear the 370z offers it.

A "track-ready" car is one that can be taken to the track off the showroom floor and survive the day without a system failure. Which pretty much means it needs to have max performance summer tires, a braking system up to hot lapping, and an engine capable of running at or near redline for extended periods of time.

From what I've read from 370z owners, it's track-ready out of the box.

BMWs (at least 1 and 3 series, sport packaged equipped) and Porsches (outside of Cayennes) also tend to be track ready due to their braking systems and factory tires.

Of course, you can make any car track ready. But my point is that some cars are made with the intention that they be able to drive to the track from the showroom and perform. Not all cars are like that, and a distinction needs to be made.

Joe

corollasman:

I dont think there is much of an argument going on. In spite of all the righteous indignation on display here the bottom line is I never even said anything negative about the Z. The performance is undeniable. I agree with posters who noted most people are not going to get a $40k 370Z for obvious reasons and it would nice if less than fully loaded cars were added to the fleet. We've heard all the familiar refrains about testing out the nav systems and all that but I'm not buying it. We all know how nav systems work by now, nothing we read here is going to enhance our understand of them. The facts are the Z is cheap compared to a Porsche but pricey for a Nissan. The performance is great but this type of car has very limited appeal and is almost a niche model. Much more interested in vehicles with a broader appeal like the Genesis sedan.

I love how this thread has been hijacked and is now all about cars from Detroit...one has to wonder if some of the posters here are paid to advertise them on this forum...

joe,

I was unaware that the Z was more track ready out the box then the other cars you mentioned. seeing as though no one was really taken the Genesis or Camaro to the track I think its a little premature to say they arent capable of performing there as you claim the Z can without any options.

the 350Z did have track package, the new one has Sport package. I was speaking of the sport package that enhances handling and braking. I dont know what % of owners actually take cars to a track (low number obviously) but people who want RWD and style in an affordable package could very well cross shop the RWD coupes I mentioned. These cars are about style and on street performance as much as they are about track capability.

The track package on the Mustang is less than $2k and will be available on the GT- you dont have to spend $40k to get it. In fact, I think a loaded 2010 Mustang is actually slightly cheaper than a loaded Z.

joe:

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/02/2010-ford-mustang-priced-below-21k-.html#more

there is detailed pricing on 2010 Mustang. Right on time.

msdaisy:

hijacked? not quite. Any car that is discussed is likely to stir up mention of competitors- this happens all the time here. Sorry that you think its blasphemous to mention cars from detroit and japan in the same discussion.

Re."I love how this thread has been hijacked and is now all about cars from Detroit...one has to wonder if some of the posters here are paid to advertise them on this forum..."

Yep - as predictable as it is pathetic.

Sweet! I've been checking the sight everyday since I read you were thinking about getting one. I can't wait to read more about it and I'm very jealous!

"Yep - as predictable as it is pathetic."

As are many of your posts here. Still waiting for you to explain how bringing up the Genesis is "pro Detroit". Thats some interesting logic you were using there.

1487 - "The track package on the Mustang is less than $2k and will be available on the GT- you dont have to spend $40k to get it. In fact, I think a loaded 2010 Mustang is actually slightly cheaper than a loaded Z."

How many times do you complain about others spouting off false information, and here you've done it a bunch of times in this thread?

I just priced out the 370z and it's $33k with the sport package. Can you tell me how much the 2010 Mustang will be with it's track/sport package? I couldn't find pricing information, and I didn't see a sport/track package for the current mustang.

Sorry, just saw your link. So if I'm reading that right it costs almost $29k for a Mustang GT (2010 model, which is a refreshed 2009 and not an all-new). Then add $525 for xenon headlights and $2k for a sport/track package.

I'm at 31k, compared to 33k for the 370z....which is all-new, weighs a few hundred pounds less, and puts out 20 more HP?

Somehow, I think it'll hold it's own. And note ford lists a "leather wrapped steering wheel" under the "premium package".

God help me if they put a vinyl steering wheel on the 28k model.

2009 Hyundai Genesis V6 (0)!!!!!!!!!

FINALLY a car that deserves to be proven over a year.

Joe,

All I said was that its CONCEIVABLE that one could cross shop the cars I mentioned. I didnt say the Mustang would whip the Z in autocross so you can relax. The Z is based on the last one and is evolutonary from a styling perspective just like the Mustang. Its very rare for any car to be "all new" these days. MT tested a GT with the track package and its performance was about 95% of what they recorded with the Z and they were very impresed with the handling.

The Z makes more hp but far less torque- in a stoplight race the Mustang is probably faster. MT got 4.9 for the GT and 4.7 for the Z. 5-60 times are probably about equal if not slightly in the Mustang's favor. I'm not really into the Mustang BTW but the new one is nice except for the base powertrain.

What an awesome car. $30k isn't much for a Nissan... the Muranos, Armadas, Pathfinders, and Maximas all fetch more than that.

As someone who liked the 350z, the 370z is a revelation. It looks great, weight is down, and it goes like hell. Build quality and craftsmanship are spot-on. It's small but not cramped, and still has gobs of character.

Time to pull the 135i out back and finish the job the trash compactor started!

I don't like how this car looks and the fact that everyone will own one soon makes me not even want it for its redeeming qualities.

I actually like the 135i now because no one does, or very few do. I've seen ONE 1-series on the road, a 128i... but tons of 3-series, including 335i's and a few M3's. (the new big bad V-8 ones)

So, a 135i is a very promising car now. Unique, fast, and fun. Looks plain, but I can deal with plain.

"Not Mustang. The V8 weighs about 3600lbs. Solstice GXP is like 3100lbs. Challenger is very heavy though"

I forgot about the Solstice. As for the Mustang, I looked at a 2008 Bullitt about 8 months ago; the dealer had a $13,000 ADM sticker. They laughed when I mentioned X Plan. I stopped by the dealer last week and guess what? The same car is still on the floor, only now they want to sell it to me for @$26,000(X plan minus $4000 in rebates). Yeah, right...

what's X plan? Not familiar with that term.

I would never buy the 2009 Mustang. If I was into this sort of car I MIGHT consider the 2010 though. Interior is nice and it has all the tech the Camaro lacks.

Umm, my last 2 posts were about your pricing comments.

The Z is all-new (new chassis, all new interior, etc. etc.) (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/19/la-2008-nissan-debuts-all-new-370z/)

The Mustang is a refresh (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/13/first-drive-2010-ford-mustang-gt/), primarily of the interior and exterior.

It's not that rare to get an all-new car....most manufacturers have been forced into a 5-6 year cycle to release an all-new model. Most.

I won't bench race the two cars, but it appears the Z is about 300 pounds less and has 20 more HP. Between that and the closer ratios of the 6-speed trans (or the 7 speed automatic), I think it'll hold it's own.

My point was going way back to your post that said, "I think the Z is going to have a a tough road with three cheaper competitors soon to be on the market. "

My response is that at least one of the competitors (mustang) costs 2k less, appears to be modestly de-contented, is riding on a almost 5 year old platform, offers less power, weighs more....

In other words, it looks like it'll hold it's own.

Re: The camaro. Well, official pricing isn't out yet, but it looks like it'll be $31k MSRP for the V8 6-speed version (including destination? don't know). It's slightly decontented vs. the base 370z (i.e. HIDs are extra), so I imagine it'll have the same price. We'll see how they do against each other.

Good to hear that GM closing the high perf division doesn't mean the camaro will be affected.....sucks about the Cobalt SS though. That girl just got her legs.

Ooh, I want to throw in the argument about buying the Camaro/Mustang/Soltice over the 370Z, because if you don't, then your'e un-American.

As much as I joke about adding fuel to the d-a$$ fire, I am a little curious if that plays into anyones mind that's posted so far.

I'm not on a high-horse, I'm not screaming at people for no reason. I'm just honestly curious if that is playing a role in the decision buying process. It's more of a Yes/No answer than a rehashing of Import vs Domestic quality.

Thoughts?

"Stingray - I thought the clutch issue was resolved like 12-18 months ago with a new slave cylinder/associated bits...."

Joe - The clutch issue was thought to be resolved numerous times over the last 6 years, but last I checked, none of the 'fixes' worked.

There's not an easy fix for it really. The clutch diameter is unusually small for the output of the engine. This is due to packaging issues with the FM platform, which required a small bellhousing, and thus a relatively small flywheel and small clutch diameter. The engineers called for more grippy clutch material and springs with higher clamping force to compensate for the reduced friction surface area. This sort of worked, but also brought with it the nasty side effects of non-linear and abrupt clutch engagement, long pedal travel, clutch chattering, heavy pedal effort, and short clutch life.

I think the only feasible option without redesigning the whole platform to fit a larger bell housing would be to use a twin disc clutch like the aftermarket offers.

"what's X plan? Not familiar with that term"

It's a "friends and family" plan where Ford employees can obtain up to four PINs per year to allow friends to purchase a car for 4% over the employee(A-Plan) price, plus $150. My uncle is retired from Ford and I have about ten friends who still work there, so getting a PIN is no problem. There are similar deals for other Ford divisions; for example, Mazda's is the S-Plan.

"I would never buy the 2009 Mustang"

The only ones I really like are the Bullitt and Shelby GT- I guess it comes from my dad owning several Mustangs when I was a kid(a '65, a '67, and a '70) but at this point I can't justify replacing a four door car with a two door.

There were a few comments opposed to getting the nav system, but I don't get why. Getting the nav system lets Edmunds test it out. If you get the same car without the nav... nothing changes except you don't have the nav system. Having the nav system doesn't affect any of us readers... but not having it would affect buyers who are considering adding that option.

But on cars with the nav system that becomes the low hanging fruit for editors, and they post on it constantly. In reality nobody cares and hardly anyone buys it.

In the Z's case they had to get the touring to also get the nav, and this means we also have to read about the leather seats and trim not many will sit on. I'd rather read about the base cloth seats, and how the base interior feels.

^ I get the argument against the touring package. Most of the guys I know who have owned Z cars tend to throw out the original seats, but to be fair, in the comming year, I have a feeling that most of the people who will be buying this thing will not be breaking the bank to do so. Hate to say it but consumers are hung up on nav and the like, what a waste. I know I would spring for the leather if I was getting one.

Then again, if I had my heart set on a Z, I'd be in the market for a 94 300ZX, T-top 2+2 with the twin turbo. It's numbers were just about as good as this and it looked leagues better. Go big or go home right.

a few of the comments mentioned wanting a genesis coupe? i just looked at the list of their vehicles and randomly found this link.

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/Vehicles/2009-hyundai-genesis-v6/

maybe a hint of whats to come?

"I'm at 31k, compared to 33k for the 370z....which is all-new, weighs a few hundred pounds less, and puts out 20 more HP?"

Joe, dont forget that awesome new SynchroRev 6MT the Z offers. Im sure and hope others will copy this technology.

"The track package on the Mustang is less than $2k and will be available on the GT- you dont have to spend $40k to get it. In fact, I think a loaded 2010 Mustang is actually slightly cheaper than a loaded Z."

1487, I see the point youre TRYING to make but as Joe said, you dont have to spend $40K on the Z to get the sport package. I think you should try to better match the options between the 2 before you make direct comparisons as doing that would bring the prices closer together than you think. Did you take the time to consider whats all included with either package?

"The Z is based on the last one and is evolutonary from a styling perspective just like the Mustang. Its very rare for any car to be "all new" these days. MT tested a GT with the track package and its performance was about 95% of what they recorded with the Z and they were very impresed with the handling."

1487, the cost is in the details. The 370Z recieved many more updates and upgrades vs the Mustang which was only slightly restyled, recieved better interior materials yet recieved very minor upgrades to its drivetrain and chassis. The Mustangs V8 ONLY recieved a new air intake and a ECU tune.

The Z recieved updated styling, better interior materials (like the Mustang), yet the Z offers a much more advanced (and costly) VVEL engine as well as the more innovative (and costly) 7AT and 6MT SynchroRev transmissions that are new to the Z. The Z's chassis was upgraded (moreso vs the Mustang) quite a bit to deliver more tactile/responsive performance. The Z's chassis overall is more sophisticated which also leads to a higher price. Nissan bascially offers Porsche Cayman S performance for less than $40K!

I would agree with you if the Mustang matched the performance of the Z (on paper and on road) and had all the advanced drivetrain features the Z has while being cheaper but it didnt turn out that way.

In the end the Mustang may be slightly cheaper (feature for feature) and a bit more practicle because of its backseat but the extra price Nissan charges gives you the extra performance, sophistication, refinement, technical features and innovation NO Mustang GT can match. That said, the 370s SLIGHTLY higher price is easily justified.

The synchro rev-match is a feature I am really looking forward to hearing more about - particularly in the context of a long-term test. As a fan of the (seemingly going extinct) manual transmission, I am encouraged to see a company putting some serious R&D into this area and coming up with a system that - at least on paper - seems bloody brilliant.

joe:

I look at more than the press release to determine if a car is "all new". Such cars are very rare. The 2003 CTS was an all new car. The 2008 model is not. The Z uses an upgraded version of the same VQ engine and the same RWD chassis that underpins the old Z and RWD Infiniti products. The dimensions are different but the platform is common amongst all their vehicles. The Mustang is on the same chassis as its predecessor. Once you change the exterior and interior of car completely its hard to argue its not "new". The Mustang's engines are 100% carry over but the styling and features are new.

camaro pricing has been released for some time and is available on Edmunds.com. The Z is facing two potential competitors that did not exist when the first model was released. That will impact sales. Overall, the Mustang is likely to retain its sales leadership though. You didnt really address the Genesis which is about the same weight as the Z and considerably cheaper. The V6 Genesis starts at $25k or so and tops out where the base model Z starts.

I was confused as to why anyone thought the Camaro SS was endangered. its not even a GMPD vehicle and even if it was they announced that there would be no future developments and the Camaro SS is 100% complete.

hondaacura:

My comment was in response to Joe's comment that you had to spend $40k to get a decent handling Mustang. I wasnt sure where he got that figure but it wasnt accurate. I did not suggest that you had to spend $40k on the Z to get the sport package. I also said that a loaded Mustang GT is less than a loaded Z with all the options.

I think you need to read up on the Mustang a little further. Most automotive redesigns these days consist of interior and exterior changes and upgraded powertrains. The Mustang is lacking in the powertrain department but everything else was changed. I'm not sure if you read the MT road test but they said the handling is much improved. I am not sure why you and Joe keep acting like the Z is a clean sheet redesign while the Mustang got a facelift. The 2010 camry got a facelift, the Mustang got significantly upgraded.

As for engines, I dont really give credit to manufacturers based on complexity that doesn't do more than something that is cheaper and less complex. The Z's engine is great but the car is only marginally faster than the "low tech" Mustang GT and the V8 sounds much better.

"Nissan bascially offers Porsche Cayman S performance for less than $40K!"

The Mustang is basically offering S5 performance for $30K or so. Both cars represent performance bargains. There are numerous high priced coupes that cant keep up with the 2010 Mustang.

We know the Z has a more complex engine and IRS but aside from that I think its hard to say its clearly more "refined" or superior to the Mustang because both cars produce similar results and both appear to be substantially more refined than their predecessors. In terms of interior design (and likely materials) and technology I think the Mustang is better. I am not a fan of the funky gauge cluster on the Z or the fact that its so cramped you cant even take a road trip for two.

I checked for reference and the new Mustang has stability for the first time, retuned shocks and springs, larger wheels and tires, new cross tower brace on the cars without the optional Track 2 package. The package includes further adjusted suspension components, performance pads, performance axle ratio, summer tires, GT500 stabilizer bars and control arms and modified stability system. I think considerable upgrades were made in every area except the engine bay.

Since I apparently claimed you need to spend $40k to get a decent handling mustang... (I said $40k for a track-ready mustang, which is different than decent handling, but once again 1487 prefers to make up his own narrative)...

So I decided to do a count of how many times 1487 has said $40k 370z:
6 times

It's almost like he has *gasp* an agenda.

"So I decided to do a count of how many times 1487 has said $40k 370z:
6 times"

This car cost $40k. You are the one who ran with the concept that I claimed the Z started at $40k. I know how much the base car costs.

"Since I apparently claimed you need to spend $40k to get a decent handling mustang... (I said $40k for a track-ready mustang, which is different than decent handling, but once again 1487 prefers to make up his own narrative)..."

Same difference but if focusing on semantics makes you feel better carry on. The statement is inaccurate statement either way. I have to figure out how you determined a "track ready" (did I get it right this time?) Mustang costs $40k. If the track package is a $2k option and the GT is $28k that adds up to a $30k car by my math.

1487 - Can you point me to the Mustang track package? It's not listed on the Ford website for the current mustang, nor in the 2010 mustang brochure?

In fact, it appears the showroom mustangs will continue to offer all-season tires as stock. The 2010 mustang will offer an upgraded 3.73 rear diff and upgraded calipers and brake pads.

I don't think you understand what track ready means, good sir. The Mustang has (to date) always been built to be able to be driven from the showroom to the drag strip, ripped out of the hole time after time without breaking. It's done well with that. Other cars are made to be track ready (but not be made for the drag strip).

So far, I don't see any indication the mustang is changing. That's probably a good thing.

I agree with Jaeger1. It's good to see a car company focus on driving experience (yes, some 'purists' (who probably drive manumatics) still whine about it but anything that makes a manual more palatable in day to day life without taking anything away from the track experience is a major win in my view) .

Nissan (maybe Ford MAYBE GM) is probably the only true sports car company left. BMW is more into trendy CUV garbage, Subaru is trying to be the new Toyota, Honda is making enviro garbage, and VW is still making regular garbage.

Joe.

Late availability. Go to motortrend.com and read their test. They tested a vehicle with this package. Its referenced in Ford press release on the Mustang. media.ford.com- I know you're into links.

re: Mikeolan
"BMW is more into trendy CUV garbage, Subaru is trying to be the new Toyota, Honda is making enviro garbage, and VW is still making regular garbage."

LOL that's some pure witty remarks right there!!

I admire Nissan for 370Z.. side profile reminds me of old school 240 notchback.(i don't know where "similarity to GT-R" come from.. are these people blind?)

don't like GT-R(skyline). looks like a brick that's been dropped few times. R34 was just a brick.(though, a good looking brick)

I agree with mike though.. BMW dropped all their sporting pretension with heavy Z4hard top conv. and no dedicated sports car left on their line up. Subies.. well, STI seems good, but interior is really garbage.. Honda is no longer making ANY sports cars. Neither is toyota. ..As for VW, GTIs are very nice. ;-)

"The Mustang is basically offering S5 performance for $30K or so... There are numerous high priced coupes that cant keep up with the 2010 Mustang."

The most ridiculous statement I've heard in a very long time.

wow, over 100 comments! It is like the Ferrari crossed with the Aura. Edmunds will have to upgade their servers. Even if they just post things like "it has nice floor mats", people will be all over it.

why would they have to upgrade their servers?

I think $ 40,000 is a pretty big chunk of change for this car and would be very surprised to see if Nissan hits anywhere close to what the expect to sell numbers-wise on this car.

Having said that, and having recently looked at the hideously overpriced Mustang refresh, I think a decent share of the dwindling sportcar/coupe market is possible...but the pie is going to shrink with the economy.

The 370Z looks good and has a good feel to it. We were ready to buy either the BMW 135i or the 370Z. We drove the BMW 135i and my fiance was ready to buy; we then went to Nissan and almost came home with the 370Z. We are leaning toward the 370Z right now. However, seeing the brief post on the long term test of the 370Z, it returns a combined MPG less than my 4L V6 2008 Tacoma DC TRD 4X4. I wonder whether a conservative driving will get a combined 20 MPG. As of now, there is just no other cars out there that will compete with the 370Z. For now, I will wait for the long term test result before I buy. Good car!!!!!

Good car.