2009 Honda Fit: Buy The Nav, If Only For One Reason

Depends on how well it works—which you guys will be telling right? :)

In looking at these images, I'm not wild about having hot air blowing on the ice cold Diet Coke that I just got from Berger King. I think Honda could have chosen a better place to put those dashboard cup holders.

both look ugly to me. i'd rather go with the basic and an after market navi to save the money

Wow, I'm amazed they stepped backwards on the base dash vs. the clean look on the 2007/08 models! If I were getting a newer 2009 (own a 2007, love it) I would go Nav. to prevent that 'Ford/Chevy'-like dash from invading my Honda!

I like the one without the NAV about a million times better. The one with the NAV looks ugly and il-fitting in my eyes.

I'm with Bob. The placement of the cup holders is a major turn off.

They're both ugly. I prefer the older Honda designs that are cleaner inside. Here, even if you opted for the non-nav option, you can't swap that radio out for a better aftermarket unit.

It looks better without the NAV. The navigation is not well integrated into the dash. Although Honda does make a great navigation system. I love the one in my TSX.

ONe is bad and the other is worse. The base dash is indeed terrible though. Of course I probably would get nav since its the only way to get traction control and stability.

while other manufacturers try to come out with interiors that have a solid, one piece look Honda continues to come out with interiors designed by committe with 20 cut lines and gaps in the dash. This interior looks state of the art circa 1998.

Not a gracefull dash either way you look at it.
If it weren't for the TC and SC I'd go without, that way people wouldn't constantly be staring at the hideousness of my dash.

The only reason I would ever get in-dash nav in this car would be to get stability and traction and control, and it's very off-putting that this is the only trim that offers those.

As far as looks, I'm in the "It just makes it look slightly less bad" group.

The Fit also has two cupholders in front of the stick and bottle holders in the doors. I've also actually heard people claim using the air conditioner in the summer cooled their beverages....but seems like it would be an insignificant effect. At the very least, it's actually a hand storage spot for a cell phone, wallet, work badge, etc.

I agree that the standard dash is ugly, but the iPod interface is quite intuitive (thanks to that huge center knob), especially considering you only see one line of text at a time.

It's a Honda FIT, why waste money on NAV? It's a huge depreciation hit and will be outdated and 'old tech' in a couple years.

Just buy a Garmin that you can move to another car and save a lot of money. Keep the future cassette player out of permanent installation.

I like all the cubbies and holders but the spongebob round dial - look is terrible.

Factory-installed nav is a losing proposition unless you're going to sell the car within a couple of years. It's like paying three times as much to have a big CRT television stuck in your dash. For the cost, you can buy a brand new $250 Garmin every year for 5 years or just buy one system, update the maps, and have a little extra in the cupholders to get your In-N-Out burgers animal style.

I'll ask the same thing I did when the 07 Civic SI came out with vehicle stability assist vs. the 06 Civic without:

What does a FWD, understeer prone, stable chassis vehicle need stability or traction control for?

Hint: Traction control is just the computer taking over throttle input during wheel spin. Not always desirable, as I found out in my old 03 Saturn Ion.

Vehicle Stability Control is nicer....but c'mon, it doesn't overcome inertia and this is an understeer prone car with a stable chassis and FWD. It doesn't have much work to do :)

Regarding the cupholders: You do realize those cupholders can close completely? I mean, I understand why it's not an ideal design....but compared to alot of the cupholder executions I see, these are better.

Joe

In-car Nav doesn't make sense in an "economy" car. Not at that price, anyway. Maybe the $500 system in the new Mazda3 (which you WILL be getting for the LT fleet, right???) But $2,000? Come on. Get a Garmin.

Having said that, I'm all in favor of you testing top trim levels. This way we can see how well the silly options work and judge for ourselves whether we think they're worth the money.

Interesting cup holders. Speaking as a Texan, with a garage, who admittedly doesn't need the heater at full blast very often... When I use the heater, it's on floor and/or defrost, not very often coming from a dash vent. More concerned about it blocking the cold air I need when it's 103 outside.

So, it's not ideal to have anything blocking the vent. But, those flimsy dash things that drip everywhere are worse. And overcrowding the center console in a small car like this, especially with a manual transmission, would also be a bad idea. So, I actually think it's a pretty clever idea.

"while other manufacturers try to come out with interiors that have a solid, one piece look Honda continues to come out with interiors designed by committe with 20 cut lines and gaps in the dash. This interior looks state of the art circa 1998."

Check out any new Toyota or Lexus or Mazda, too. Apparently simplicity and symmetry is out. Go figure.

Shoulda' read erok's comment first. Nice that they have cupholders in front of the shifter as well. As "secondary" cupholders or junk holders, the dash/vent things are pretty cool. This must be another one of those "Americanization" things they were talking about in the article. I'll never understand why any car needs more cupholders than seatbelts.

Did Honda hire some old Pontiac people to design their interiors? The Japanese automakers are getting really far out there in both their interior and exterior designs... setting the stage for the Americans to swing back in with style and quality?

"Check out any new Toyota or Lexus or Mazda, too. Apparently simplicity and symmetry is out. Go figure."

Simplicity may be out but ugliness doesnt have to take its place. This interior is a mess. Honestly the 2009 Aveo interior looks more upscale. Check out pics before attacking me for saying that. This interior is worse than anything recently introduced by Chevy or Mazda. I wont go so far as to say its worse than Toyota's low budget interiors because the new Scions and the MArtrix are horrible inside. I sat in the xB and couldnt believe Toyota was serious about that interior. Hard plastics everywhere and a layout that is odd for no apparent reason.

BTW, who does Honda think can easily reach those cupholder buried on the floor ahead of the shifter?

Ugly either or. The dash design is one of the ugliest on the market in my eyes (along with Matrix, Tundra and Journey).

I'm a fan of spiffy stock radios (Mazda has the same thing going on, but they actually look good). But this interior looks so unfinished and cheap.

The Fit is just so blah, it needs to be cheaper. Why do you guys have one again?

here is another question I have about Honda interiors. Why do they think people want their junk out in the open? The Fit and Pilot both have tons of exposed storage for your odds and ends. The shelves and cubbies look dumb empty and they would look even worse loaded with parapharnelia (Sp). There is a reason cars have storage areas with doors on them.

Joe - it's a valid point that this car probably doesn't "need" either one of those electric nannies. I though the same thing. I can see two reasons for their inclusion however.

Firstly, these things help sell cars. It helps increase the value proposition of the car. "Look at how safe this car is! It has SC AND TC!!! blah blah blah". Not unlike most "awd" systems. Sad, but true.

Secondly, the day that they will be usefull, that will be one happy customer telling all of his friends and family how his little econobox has an excellent stability control system and saved his life. I can't think of too many scenario's but I'm sure someone out there will happen across them.

The interior doesn't look weird to me. It's certainly much more restrained and nicer looking than the Civic. It even has 3 knobs for HVAC instead of a button party. I'm liking it.

Totally agree with joefrompa about the TC and SC. It's just a shade below totally pointless in a 110hp fwd car. I have no idea why they bother putting it in at all.

Didn't mean it as an attack, dude. I agree with you. I don't like the design too much, I prefer the previous Fit. A lot of newer interiors (Toyota Venza and Tundra come to mind) look odd to me. I can't comment on the quality or construction of the Fit interior judging by this photo, but honestly, it has a nice steering wheel from the Civic and a good seat from the Accord, so as long as it doesn't rattle, I really couldn't give a sh*t what it sounds like when some "journalist" raps his knuckles on the dash.

1487 -

I decided to look at the Aveo pics (offered by Edmunds) with an open mind to give your statement reasonable assessment, because I find the Honda interior decent. Actually, I find it nice.

So I went to the Aveo...and I've got to say, I'm not impressed. I far prefer the Fit interior, picture vs. picture.

Maybe this is just a matter of personal taste, but let me spell it out for you my reaction:

1. Patterned seats in the Aveo? What is this, 1993?

2. The dash layout is fairly generic. This isn't really a knock, considering the price of the car. It reminds me of the rental G6 I had in Chicago, but that's not a compliment.

3. The Chevy radio controls have 6 seperate pieces of trim integrating around it, as opposed to....2? on the Fit. (this is just an observation since you were pointing out cuts/trim seperations)

3a. There's actually a mis-aligned panel in the pictures of the Aveo on edmunds website, which are stock photos, of a small, apparently useless, panel behind the shifter.

4. I don't see any storage cubbies/nooks/cupholders in the Aveo. No center armrest either (which, IIRC, is also absent in the fit and replaced by slots to put things). Is this euro design?

My 06 Honda SI has the best cupholder and nook/cranny design I've ever seen in a car. The cupholders are deep and items are held still with spring loaded "holders"....and the cupholder area has a re-tractable cover. Big gulps can be put in there and STILL not be in the way of the shifter.

Anyway, I can't speak for others, but I drive around with the following in those "exposed" nooks and crannies on a daily basis:

1. Bottle of water
2. Blackberry
3. Chapstick
4. Plastic CD sleeves for CDs
5. Protein Bar

The only space I see in the Aveo for that stuff is in front of the shifter is a small ledge...that could hold my blackberry or a bottle of water with the re-tractable cup holders, but not both. Am I wrong? Yes, I could use the door pockets....but seriously, those are hard to reach into.

Anyway...I'm actually impressed with the Aveo interior now that I've taken a good look at it. It's a pretty nice interior for this price point.....looks like a much better executed version of the 2003+ Saturn Ion interior/Chevy Cobalt Interior (very similar layouts and design).

I still prefer the Fit for the reasons named above.

G8GTNorth - I understand, it does sell. Traction control isn't saving anyone's life, but Stability Control is helpful and can definitely improve your control in specific situations. There's no way I can apply a single corner braking to bring my car back into line....but there is a narrow band where the car is "just" losing control and can be brought back into control with a gentle nudge, vs. being totally out of control and VSA doing nothing.

I've experienced the later more times than the former, and the times when I've been "just over the edge" were when I put it there deliberately :)

Of course, most people don't drive like me so I guess I should just accept that it's a good thing.

Joe

Terrible looking design on both fronts. Anyone paying $2000 for the nav in the Fit is not too bright. As someone else mentioned, you can get a nice 4.3" TomTom or Garmin that cost less than $500 and can be updated at a reasonable cost.

Can someone please tell me why the Fit has a MECHANICAL air source selector switch (fresh/recirculate)? Does any other car on the market have this archaic feature? When I saw that at the car show I immediately exited the vehicle and knew this car was overrated. For all the love it receives, I was expecting to be blown away. If it weren't so ugly inside and out, I'd probably wouldn't mind it so much.

Joe Frompa - studies in Europe showed that stability control had a very significant effect on fatality numbers, which is why it's becoming mandatory there. Short wheelbase cars are hard to save when they start spinning (and that's what most cars in Europe are). Americans don't do as much driving through wet mountain roads as European and Japanese drivers, but I guess it wasn't worth de-contenting USDM cars.

Besides, Scions have it, and Honda doesn't want to give them any advantages.

Well here's my two cents worth. That nav screen looks like it was put in the dash by some half-arsed aftermarket shop. The base stack actually looks like it belongs there. I bought a $300 portable nav system and it spends most of the time in the glove compartment. Why spend more than you have to?

Personally, I'd rather spend that two grand on the panoramic sunroof and the six-speed automated manual transmission that you can get in the European model.

"Can someone please tell me why the Fit has a MECHANICAL air source selector switch (fresh/recirculate)? Does any other car on the market have this archaic feature?"

Give me 3 knobs and a switch over buttons any day.

Yeah that mechanical, cheap, clunky pull tab is just so much better than one on/off button. This is why the Fit is so awesome.

Lots of cars with the button change the setting on you. In Fords if you put the defrost on it automatically goes to fresh, or the AC will go to recirc. In my car the delay from hitting the button till the airflow changes is 3 seconds. When you hit a skunk that time counts. Having direct control of the vent works well. You seem incredibly nit picky about the Fit.

I could be wrong, but I think you can meter off the air input from outside/inside with those mechanical selector. It's not just on/off.

Still archaic, and a good catch compliance.

The climate buttons in my 06 Civic SI are literally one part of the car that, to this day, I LOVE pushing. They have this perfectly damped feel and quiet "click". And they always move with such smooth precision.

When I went to the philly auto show last Friday I pointed out to my wife how in an Audi, every button has the exact same "click" noise and feel....because Audi is OCD like that. She thought it was obnoxious, but she's OCD and would probably appreciate it if she owned one :)

Joe

"The climate buttons in my 06 Civic SI are literally one part of the car that, to this day, I LOVE pushing. They have this perfectly damped feel and quiet "click". And they always move with such smooth precision."

Ahhh, another person who values those small details most people simply overlook. Just one of the reasons why Im a Honda (and BMW) admirer.

Joe, its good to see others who take the time and scratch the surface instead of only looking at the surface as the details are always inside. Numbers and graphs cant rate tactality.

Edmunds, although I like Honda, and I like the Fit, I would have prefered another car besides another Fit. =)

Why is it when a manufacturer (Honda or not) produces a good, solid, competitive vehicle it gets bashed? The Honda Fit and Chevy Malibu are great examples as when these 2 cars are mentioned the nasty remarks seem to surface immediately.

At least the buttons on the non-nav version are large an widely-spaced. Easy to operate with gloves for those of us that have to put up with winter for half the damn year.

Wow, more bitching on this Fit post as well. Seems to be a lot of "bitchers" for lack of a better word posting in the 2009 Fit threads. Get a life!

Have any of you bitchers actually sat in the 2009 Fit, or better yet lived with it for a little while like I have? (I own a 2009 Fit with nav and 5-speed manual) No, you're probably all going off these pictures to form your opinion. Well get back to me when you've actually driven the thing to have a respected opinion. The interior of this car is perfect ergonomically. Incredibly simple to operate with a very high quality feel to everything. Remember, this is a sub $20K compact car, not a freaking Lexus. Honda had to make concessions somewhere.

The cup holders are fine. You don't like the one by the vent, well guess what, vents do close you know, and you can close the vents in the Fit too, surprise, surprise! Also, if that's too difficult for some of you, the Fit also has cup holders down by the shifter. So Honda has given you options. The upper cub holder doubles as a great little storage bin too.

Lastly, while some of you don't like OEM navs, that's fine, you don't have to buy one. But to compare the accuracy, recalculation speed, and quality of the nav in the Fit to a Garmin or any other hand held is a joke. Not only is the Honda nav probably one of the most accurate on the market, but the integration is what really makes it worth the extra money. No wires hanging all over the place, it automatically lowers the volume when announcing directions, it allows you to control all stereo functions via spoken commands as well as navigation via spoken commands, it has a beautiful 6.5" screen to look at instead of a rinky dinky 3" or 4" screen, and I don't have to worry about someone breaking into my car to steal it like I would with a portable. It is well worth the asking price, especially for the stability control you get with it. Bravo to Honda for even offering this option in a sub-compact vehicle. Talk about thinking outside of the box.

I despise integrated controls. The fact that they put the stability control on only the NAV model is a crime.

"The cup holders are fine. You don't like the one by the vent, well guess what, vents do close you know, and you can close the vents in the Fit too, surprise, surprise! Also, if that's too difficult for some of you, the Fit also has cup holders down by the shifter. So Honda has given you options. The upper cub holder doubles as a great little storage bin too."

Good point about the vents closing. I hadn't thought about that when I posted my comment. :)

Also, good point about all the "Fit Bitching."

BTW, I'm NOT a Fit-Bitcher (despite my cupholder comment). I think it's a neat car. In fact I stated earlier that if I was in the market for a 1.5L car, the Fit was at the top of my list, remember?

You're bitching just as much as us, just stfu. The Honda OEM navi in this and the Civic is nothing short of outdated and poor. I don't need to live with it to know that a KIA Soul would be a better Hatch in it's place.

I will pick up an 09 Fit Sport M/T in March. I didn't order the Navi due to cost. I wanted a reliable subcompact, 5-door hatchback for less than $20K. Although I'm a fan of GPS & VSA, I didn't want a built-in Navi... want one I can use in wife's car or on vacation.

Nope, I know where I'm going and if I wanted nav, I wouldn't spring for the expensive OEM system that's gonna be out of date way before the car is.

"You're bitching just as much as us, just stfu. The Honda OEM navi in this and the Civic is nothing short of outdated and poor. I don't need to live with it to know that a KIA Soul would be a better Hatch in it's place."

You're a tool, you really are, and you aren't the sharpest tool in the shed either.

Hey, come back and actually post when you've used the navigation system in the 09 Fit or Civic. Until then you're just blowing a bunch of hot air. And WTF is a "Kia Soul." I've never heard of it, but I will place big bets if it's some new sub-compact in the Fit's price range it will not be as well made, safe, fun-to-drive, fuel efficient, feature rich, and reliable as the Honda Fit. And trust me, I've got nothing against Korean cars, as my second car is an 09 Sonata and I love it.

For $18,500 (Fit sport with nav and 5-speed manual) sub compacts don't get any better the Honda Fit. And if you don't want the navigation and VSA option, sub compacts certainly don't get any better than that model's $16,700 asking price.

Now go away and crawl under a rock (or better yet, crawl under your gas guzzling CX7) and die. please.

"You're bitching just as much as us, just stfu."

Thanks for continuing your predictably useless and classless contributions to a blog dealing with a car you claim not to care about.

Whatever you do, please don't shock us by saying anything meaningful or intelligent - trolls should just stick to what they do best.

dgs4

Nice, hypocritical fool. You suggest that I've never had seat time with Honda's rank OLD Navi system that's lacking in so many areas it's not even funny, but then disregard the KIA Soul? The Fit isn't all that, The SOUL already sporting a better look and a good level of build quality over the FIT which is nothing to write home about in the FIRST place anyway.

"Now go away and crawl under a rock (or better yet, crawl under your gas guzzling CX7) and die. please."
How's about this, I run over your Fit in my Gas Guzzling CX-7 and crush you and it to dust? Sounds like a plan? Don't even try to come back with that ignorant "Sub-Compact "Honda's" are just as safe because they aren't.

For $18,500 (Fit sport with nav and 5-speed manual) sub compacts don't get any better the Honda Fit. And if you don't want the navigation and VSA option, sub compacts certainly don't get any better than that model's $16,700 asking price.

Really now? how's about the Soul's base asking price of about 13K WITH ESC AND ABS! Yeah, this ignorance thing is a two way street. It's already got more content than the Fit and less of that pesky Honda packaging. It's not the holy grail. You can get WAY more for your money in this price range.

jaeger1

Please, don't shock me and say anything of meaning. I never said I didn't CARE about the Fit! Stop putting words in my mouth, I said it doesn't deserve to be here and I would much rather read about something else.

cx7lover

Yep - clearly you would much rather read about something else. It's why you keep coming back to the Fit blogs again, and again and again and again and again and... well, surely even you get the idea now.

Is the irony completely lost on you? You know - how by repeatedly participating in the discussions, you are proving that the Fit IS a car worth talking about? Man, who knew this kind of humour could be had for free?

Which result do you think suggests to the people at Edmunds that they picked the wrong car for a long term test - the one's with 3-4 responses per blog entry, or the ones with 50-80 responses? Surely even you can do the math?

Thanks for all but guaranteeing that the next Fit will be front and center for another review - ya done good.

DGS4, Jeager....CX7 has proven to be a hater of all things Honda so dont waste your time arguing as its not worth it.

clearly you would much rather read about something else. It's why you keep coming back to the Fit blogs again, and again and again and again and again and... well, surely even you get the idea now.

Clearly, you didn't notice that the comments do nothing to unanimously compliment the Fit and over half of them have little to do with the actual post.. so ask yourself that again. When we're talking cars, any attention (bad) is NOT the kind of attention you want. I'll keep commenting the Fit's post, count on that.

Sorry, but after sitting in one and taking it for a drive the new IP stylistically is a deal breaker. That's by far one of the most disjointed and haphazard designs on the planet. it makes old GM interiors look like works of art.
And for the nav vs. standard radio question: Get the standard radio and add an after-market deck with some real flexibility and upgradability. Kenwood makes some fantastic Nav units with the Garmin software built in.

dgs,

The problem with Honda-philes is that they refuse to acknowledge that anyone else knows how to put together a decent car. for the record I have been in the new Fit. Was it high quality? For the price it probably was. Was it the only affordable car out there that felt somewhat well put together? No. Have you been in Hyundai's small cars? I think they look better than the Fit inside and feel at least as nice, if not better. Ergonomics are nothing to brag about in 2009. I disagree that the fit has excellent ergonomics but even if I didnt I wouldn't act like it has a monopoly on that trait. The Cobalt has good ergonomics, its hardly an exclusive thing these days.

Joe,

Check out the 2009 Aveo, not the old one. THe interior i cleaner looking that the Fit and it has the standard GM head unit so I'm not sure why you would be complaining about the radio looking cheap.

It amazes me that people sincerely believe Honda's are beyond reproach but then cannot stand any objective criticism of Honda products. If you dont subsribe to the fact that every Honda is perfect you are suddenly a "fit bitcher" or "Honda hater". Honda fans need to man up and realize that to those not born and raised in the Honda fold many Hondas just seem like regular cars. They probably are reliable but these days that is hardly significant.

Joe:

To be 100% clear go here to see the interior photos:

http://www.chevrolet.com/aveo/photogallery

And before anyone even thinks of suggesting that I am saying the Aveo is a great car I want to be clear that never said that. I said I like it's interior better and if you put aside brand prejudices its competitive for the class and possibly better than the Fit. Look at the pics and make your own determination. And remember, the Fit is called the unparalled class benchmark and the Aveo is a Korean made POS that CR (and many here) is calling one of the worst cars on the market.

cx7lover:

Can you try to use some quotation marks (") when you are repeating large sections of print that other people said? Your comments are even more incoherent then normal when I have to sift through and figure out what is your type and what someone else wrote.

Regarding the Aveo:

I'm not saying that I'm a huge Fit fan, but anyone who thinks its ugly needs to open that link to the Chevy Aveo photo gallery and look at the picture of the yellow Aveo in the field! Yikes!! Chevy please stop forcing the double-grille on everything....it doesn't always work!!!

PS I prefer the Aveo's interior layout. As for materials and build, its impossible to comment from photos.

1487 - I find it remarkable that you object to being labelled as a "fitbitcher" or "Honda hater" for criticizing the Fit, yet in the same breath generalize about those that actually like the Fit as "Honda-philes" who have abandoned all objectivity in favour of brand "worship". Nope, not much hypocrisy there at all.

I am a Honda fan - having owned several models over the years - but I am no Honda-phile. I think most of their recent models have been a complete disappointment and I have been highly critical of the likes of the new Accord and TL. I don't think that of the Fit. I think it's a solid stand-up triple, if not a home run. Read some of the press on the car - it's not like I'm alone in that opinion. And surely you're not so paranoid as to believe that everyone who praises the car is either in Honda's pocket financially or else a mindless convert to some car-based cult?

And no, you don't need to drive the car in order to voice an opinion - it's a (relatively) free and open blog. But it does suggest that your opinion might not be as informed as someone who HAS driven the vehicle. One could easily look at the Miata's middling performance numbers (in the sports car context) and dismiss it as pointlessly average. Which would be missing the point quite entirely. "Fun to drive" is a rare commodity these days - and particularly so at this price point. The Fit has it in spades. If you don't drive it, you'll never know.

Jaeger

PS - cx7lover - since no-one is talking about your ride - one of the only real mistakes Mazda has made in the last few years - I fully expect you would seek attention any way you can on active blogs involving other cars. Trolls aren't exactly hard to predict.

"PS I prefer the Aveo's interior layout. As for materials and build, its impossible to comment from photos."

MAterial quality? Have you been in the Fit? Most small cars have hard plastics inside and the Aveo and Fit are no exceptions.

jaeger,

You are right, no hypocrisy at all. The position of Fit Fanatics is that the car is worlds better than any other sub $20k car and nothing else can come close. I doubt that seriously but that doesnt mean I "hate" the Fit. You have decided that since I refuse to believe the Fit is the the best thing ever offered under $20k that I must hate the car. Not at all. Besides, the viability of the car isnt even an issue. The issue is that many people arent interested in reading about it AGAIN. feel free to single me out if you chose but if you've been paying attention many folks dont get this (re)selection of the Fit.

Dont get me started on the press. I'm glad you can acknowledge some Honda missteps recently but most of the automotive press is basically and extension of the Honda PR office. Try reading any C&D review of a Honda product. They have pronounced the Accord, Fit, Pilot, Insight and TL to be total homeruns with few discernable flaws. You say the fit is different from the rest of those models but to me it's not. As with all recent Honda redesigns the Fit is a mild evolution of its predecessor with no major breakthroughs. Its not a bad car but its a bencmark mostly because it has little direct competition. There are only a handful of compact wagons in this market.

doug,

The Aveo is pretty ugly but honestly all these subcompacts have awkward proportions. Have you ever seen a base model fit with the 15" wheelcovers? it looks like its about to tip over.

"The problem with Honda-philes is that they refuse to acknowledge that anyone else knows how to put together a decent car."

1487, I love how you grouped all the "Honda-philes" together as its obvious you used stereotypes to try and somehow validate your statement. Every brand has a fan boy not just Honda. My future recommendation to you is for you to label (if thats your thing) individuals and dont put all enthusiasts in one group as its not fair and inaccurate.

Ive been a Honda enthusiast since I was 15 (31 currently) and even though Honda is my favorite manufacturer (Ferrari/BMW are the other 2), I can easily realize that other manufacturers can execute and produce competitive products. I think Ive proved that here with the high praise for GM's Tahoe/Suburban, Corvette, Malibu, CTS and the Cobalt SS, just to name a few.

"And no, you don't need to drive the car in order to voice an opinion - it's a (relatively) free and open blog. But it does suggest that your opinion might not be as informed as someone who HAS driven the vehicle. One could easily look at the Miata's middling performance numbers (in the sports car context) and dismiss it as pointlessly average. Which would be missing the point quite entirely. "Fun to drive" is a rare commodity these days - and particularly so at this price point. The Fit has it in spades. If you don't drive it, you'll never know."

Well said and very true Jeager as I consistently mention "paper performance" here as a lot of cars look good or bad on paper but once driven it may change ones opinion entirely. Somehow people STILL fail to realize that vehicles can post identicle, mediocre, or amazing performance numbers on paper yet have a completely different positive or negative tactile experience in terms of the way the performance is delivered. As I always say, dont just look at the surface, scratch it and look as the telling details are inside.

In regards to the Fit, I think its praised so much because of its unexpected fun to drive character, clever packaging, fair price and good quality levels for the price point. Some if not all of these characteristics werent present in this segment before the Fit arrived.

1487 - at least you're comfortable in your hypocrisy. I guess that's a good thing. Those who criticize the Fit aren't "haters" - they are merely highly objective and informed automotive enthusiasts. Those who praise it aren't objective and informed auto enthusiasts who genuinely like the car - they are merely "Honda-philes" who mindlessly praise their every product. Riiiiight.

And forgive me for failing to give proper credit to your paranoia - turns out the global automotive press actually IS in Honda's pocket. Wow - thanks for sharing that. What DEEP pockets Honda must have?

hondacura4 - re. "In regards to the Fit, I think its praised so much because of its unexpected fun to drive character, clever packaging, fair price and good quality levels for the price point."

That is pretty much spot on. It's not a perfect vehicle, but the fun-to-drive factor is the ace up its sleeve. We looked at Yaris and Versa - not even close in that department.

Jaeger

1487 -

Alot of reply to here, so here we go:

You said,

"Joe,

Check out the 2009 Aveo, not the old one. THe interior i cleaner looking that the Fit and it has the standard GM head unit so I'm not sure why you would be complaining about the radio looking cheap. "

If you read my post, I WAS looking at the 2009 Aveo. All of my criticisms were applicable to the 2009 interior, which is far better than the old Aveo. And yes, the standard GM Head Unit looks low-grade in my eyes, and has ALOT of dash-trim-piece seperations around it....which was my point. You said,

"Honda continues to come out with interiors designed by committe with 20 cut lines and gaps in the dash. "

And yet the Aveo does the same thing....

So your criticism and comparison was, um, moot?

:)

As for grouping me as a Honda-phile....well, I find that humorous :)

I look forward to the day I can move beyond my 06 Civic SI....it's harsh ride, rattles, and buzzing noises are only partially sated by it's supreme handling, snickety-snick shifting, womb-like front seat comfort, and extremely low maintenance costs.

And guess what? No other Honda product attracts me at the moment (although the TSX is going to get the 3.5 liter engine in it....if combined with AWD and a front face-lift, I'll consider it).

I've driven the Fit. I've been in both new and old fits. I consider it an absolutely fantastic car compared to it's price-point competitors. It sells so ridiculously well, and has for the past several years, that I understand IL getting both an old one and an all new one. There is obviously such a customer base out there that IL doesn't want to lack in information about the new fit, and lose potential readership.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't prefer to see a Genesis and Old Porsche in their grips, but I take what I can get :)

Joe

jaeger,

Its difficult and time consuming to explain all of this to you but I guess I need to be more specific. I am not suggesting that C&D and others are paid off by Honda. I'm not that stupid. Media types have preconceived notions about brands and often the product itself becomes secondary. Hence C&D has nothing but praise for the clearly mediocre Pilot. As far as C&D is concerned its a HOnda so is HAS to be good, the facts and attributes of superior competitors are irrelevant. Vehicles from certain manufacturers (Mazda, Honda, BMW) are almost immune from criticism while others are veritable punching bags. History has its place but when reviewers let history of a brand dictate how they evaluate new products we get shortchanged. Think about it, when it the last time you read a review of a Pontiac that didnt mention "we build excitement" or plastic ribbing and cladding? Its mentioned in EVERY pontiac review even though the Grand Am (and its ribbing) has been gone for about 5 years. The last gen grand prix came out in 1997 and didnt have plastic cladding and yet we are stil reading about that today. Contrast that with any Honda review and notice how many times an article references Honda's "genius" or how Honda is led by engineers and not bean counters. The reviewers are caught up in the mystique and propaganda. Do you really think great engineers arnet employed at GM or Hyundai? If so you would never know it by reading about their products.

HondaAcura:

Not every Honda fanboy is created equal, you are correct. The most vocal tend to be those who think that no one else can build a reliable or advanced vehicle.

Joe,

You like the Fit's interior but criticize the Aveo's dash for having too many components and cut lines. Are you serious? My comparison is not moot. I said the Aveo has a more cohesive and attractive dash. I stand by that. I didnt say it had a one piece dash or that it appeared to of VW quality. It looks like it was designed by one or two people, not 10. I never identified you specifcally as a Hondaphile BTW. Not sure where you got that front. If you feel the label applies that is your prerogative.

"t sells so ridiculously well, and has for the past several years, that I understand IL getting both an old one and an all new one. There is obviously such a customer base out there that IL doesn't want to lack in information about the new fit, and lose potential readership."

I hope the above was in jest. You cant be for real. Please mention some actual Fit sales figures the next time you hype up the demand for this vehicle. You are now saying the car is so overwhelmingly popular that IL would be alienating a huge portion of its readership base by not having another Fit in the fleet. That is just crazy. Have you not read all the comments from people disappointed that they are wasting a slot with the 2009 Fit? I am not the only person making this point. You keep acting as if "everyone" agrees the Fit is a must have but the comments here dont support that.

Other than the gauge pods and steering wheel lifted from the Civic, I cant say that I find the rest of the Fits dash design appealing as its not at all cohesive. However it somehow compliments the rest of the cars funky, youthful, almost cartoonish styling.

"The most vocal tend to be those who think that no one else can build a reliable or advanced vehicle."

1487, that can be said for fanboys of any brand not just Honda as pure ignorance seperates the fanboys from the true enthusiasts.

"dgs,

The problem with Honda-philes is that they refuse to acknowledge that" blah, blah, blah to follow...

You don't know what you're talking about. First of all I own a 2009 Hyundai Sonata Limited V6, so I don't need anyone to preach to me about how great Hyundai is. The Fit is a second car for me to cart my big dog around in, and to run various other chores that require the use of a hatchback. For a second car I wanted a cheap car payment, yet I also wanted something that got excellent gas mileage, was safe, reliable, fun to drive, and had great utility. The 2009 Fit is all of that.

I did my homework, I did my research, and all of my research confirmed the 2009 Fit to be the best car in its class, period! I don't know what the hell a Kia Soul is, but the way everyone is talking about it in these Fit threads leads me to believe I'll read about it soon enough. But really, I don't care, the Kia Soul, or any other sub-compact really. I bought my Fit, I'm extremely happy with it, it does what I need it to do. There are always going to be better, newer cars every year, I don't care. As of January 2009 however, the Fit is the best sub-compact under $20K on the market today. If this new Kia Soul turns out to be a better reviewed vehicle, great for Kia!!! Like I said, I bought my Fit now, and I'm keeping it until the wheels fall off and the engine turns over and dies. It's an excellent car and worthy of all the praise it's been getting. I'm sure someday there will be something better on the market, there always is.

Lastly, I'm the farthest thing from a "Honda-phile" (nice made up word) around. I could care less what the name is, as evidenced by my decision to buy a Hyundai Sonata. When it comes to cars, I simply research what the best car on the market is for the price range I want to be in, and for the purpose of the vehicle I need it for. I'm very happy with both my Hyundai, and my Honda, not because they were manufactured by Hyundai and Honda, but because they are great cars, end of story.

I sat in an 09 FIT last night. Much more comfortable than my current 07 FIT, but the dash design is a train wreck. They should have taken the designers crayons away about half way through the design process. It looks like they didn't know when to stop designing. Too bad the same person seems to have had their hand in a lot of Honda interior designs lately. Honda's use to have nice looking, simple, logical and easy to use interiors.