2008 Cadillac CTS: RWD vs. AWD -- Can You Spot the Difference?

Looks like the front break calipers are on opposite sides of the disc for the two cars. For the red car, it's facing back, for the black, it's forward.

Yeah that is the only differerence I see. :^)

i think they want somebody to guess that the black car is in a different country.

my guess is the UK, or someplace in Europe.

I will agree with the first comment. The only difference I can see is the calipers...

Besides the already mentioned position of the front brake calipers I don't notice anything. I know the AWD CTS had a little 4 on the trunk lid, but it's obviously not visible in the photograph.

I have to stop staring at them... they are smiling at me!

If the black CTS is indeed in Europe as jackson611 suggests, then is that the Norisring racetrack in Nuremberg?

Higher ride height on the black one.

This visible difference is that one is on the road and the other isn't :p

The black one is AWD because it's on a wet track and RWD would be scary in that situation. :P

Could that track be the Nurburgring?

Nurburgring

Easy way to cheat is to look at the infinite pictures available on ebaymotors.

I know!

One is red, the other is black and has rain on it!

Dan, your posts are always so smart - guess it must run in the family~

I may be thinking too hard, but the black one seems like it may just have a little more ground clearance than the red one. It looks like the red one is planted more aggressively, with a lower front end. I probably am thinking too hard, but anyway, I am assuming it is at the Nurburgring.

Come on! The black one is OFF ROAD, so it must be AWD!

Seriously, though, the car in the long-term fleet isn't AWD, so that gives it away. The ride height looks the same to me, so the brake calipers must be the way to tell (unless you're in the back where you could just look for a CTS4 logo).

the front calipers are in diferrent position to accomodate AWD, andm no front tag holder, so must b europe, Nurburgring?

It's the caliper location. And man, that grille is fugly.

^ I agree

I think the ride heights are the same. Both with the FE2 suspension.

I agree with jomil

I sure as hell can't tell the difference, they are both obese fugly crap mobiles. who cares?

"obese fugly crap mobiles."

from a man who's favorite company makes the Prius?

pot-kettle

Since he said employees of GM cant answer the question my guess is the bottom pic is at Milford proving grounds where they test cars. They let journalists drive there sometimes. What I like about the AWD CTS is that it rides low. Many AWD cars (like the 300 or A6) are obviously AWD because they ride so high.

@fadetoblackii

What makes you think toyota4life is a "man"?

And who can forget the overwhelming style of today's Highhlander, undoubtedly the fugliest suv on the planet. But as his potty mouth so eloquently pointed out: who cares?

Ha my coworker just got a new Highlander. She waited months for the 4 cyl models to come out, then broke down and bought an 08 6 cyl. I actually think they don't look too bad, but still not my cup of tea. The CTS, on the other hand, is sculpture.

I'm guessing Milford for the location, and brake calipers for the difference.

Maybe,just maybe if GM was capable of producing decent products then they would not be depending on my hard earn money just to stay alive. i'll take a prius or a highlander ANY day over ANY of the CRAP GM produce,including this hideous aztek off spring atop of the page.

One good thing about this recession is that the public will no longer stand for crap anymore,each dollar spent has to go towards the best products.

We all heard how the mighty Malibu was gunning for the Camry since re-design now look at it, already out dated within a year and the sales figures are there to prove my point, on the other hand look at the camry ,still going strong selling over 20k in one month , the fuglibu? not so much.

I'm not going to play, but will offer this.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=101188

The brake calipers are in different positions, which makes perfect sense since brakes stop better in front (AWD, black) with the rotor turning into the pad, not away from it (RWD, red).

And it looks like the AWD car has a different hub than the RWD. But it could just be the angle.

+1 for toyota4life. Its hard to distinguish one bit of crap from the other.

Are the Detroit automakers really relying on our "hard earn(ed) money to stay alive"? Last I checked it was in the form of loans - and in case of dissolution, the debtholders are the first to be repaid.

Something that is not pointed out, at all, is the fact that when Detroit automakers do idle plants or layoff workers, the unions/employers are paying the unemployment benefits. When Toyota does this, such as when the Tundra plant has to be idled or employees laid off, we - the taxpayers - are paying the unemploymet benefits.

I didn't read any of the previous posts because I wanted to feel special when I noticed that the AWD car was off-road, and the RWD was on tarmac.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed!?

*Now I'll go back and check!*

"The brake calipers are in different positions, which makes perfect sense since brakes stop better in front (AWD, black) with the rotor turning into the pad, not away from it (RWD, red)."

The caliper location fundamentally makes NO difference in braking. The pads clamp onto the disc the exact same way no matter where they're placed. Look at a rear-mounted caliper while you're upside down -- from that perspective the disc is "turning into" the pad just the same as a front-mount -- the idea that one is doing anything differently than the other is an illusion.

VQ356MT said, "Something that is not pointed out, at all, is the fact that when Detroit automakers do idle plants or layoff workers, the unions/employers are paying the unemployment benefits. When Toyota does this, such as when the Tundra plant has to be idled or employees laid off, we - the taxpayers - are paying the unemploymet benefits."

This is false. The laid-off employee receives regular unemployment benfits AND a supplemental unemployment benefit from the UAW. In essence, it raises their pay back up to around 95% of what they were making. This lasts as long as unemployment lasts, at which time at which time the UAW will step in and provide more benefits after unemployment runs out.

The essence is that if you are a laid off UAW worker, you've got about 3 years before you need to work again. So you can bide your time and don't need to change industries or find another job. You are also dis-incentivized from finding another job that pays even 10% less, because you are receiving almost full pay for 3 years.

Further, the UAW had wording that would prevent employees from being laid off for more than 48 consecutive weeks due to a need to cut production. So if you were laid off due to a production cut, you'd be paid for up to 48 full weeks with an essential guarantee you can return to work at that time.

So no, in fact, the UAW setup actually provided incentive for individuals to stay on state unemployment benefits as long as possible and not seek new employment.

Vs. a non-union plant where a laid off worker would not have paid into such a system (thereby decreasing their take home pay for years) and would be incentivized to seek employment elsewhere more promptly, thereby reducing the tax-burden on the state.

Research more next time.

The location on the bottom is not in Europe. Looking at the review of the 2008 CTS which was linked earlier in this article, one of the photos notes that the European version of the CTS has a slightly thicker hood where it meets the grille to meet pedestrian safety regulations. That extra bulge is notably absent here. So both CTSs pictured here are American versions.

"i'll take a prius or a highlander ANY day over ANY of the CRAP GM produce"

So, you'd rather have a Prius than a Corvette (ZR-1 included), a CTS-V, or a turbo Cobalt SS?

Somebody needs to lay off the wacky tobaccy.

Not wacky tobaccy, just fanboy lazy ignorance. Fanboys can't be bothered to be informed, and don't have the courage to carry on an intelligent debate, so they just make absolute statements that couldn't be understood by any halfway intelligent person.

other than the brake calipers, I'd say that the lippy thing under the front bumper is black on the red car and painted in the exterior color on the black car. Did I win?

For the first too model years, the CTS 4 had the brake package from the FE3 high performance RWD model. The brakes had cast iron calipers as opposed to aluminum for better heat dissipation as well as 13.6" front rotors. The RWD FE3 has the exact exact front brake assembly so it has nothing to do with the AWD configuration. Now, current CTS4s will continue with the standard FE1 & FE2 brake configuration with less aggressive pads, smaller rotors and aluminum calipers.

One is being driven in rainy grass...

-The Nurburgring

Joe,

I can see your point but, the last time I checked, unemployment benefits are reduced dollar-for-dollar for any monies earned/paid via severance, supplemental, part-time or benefit payout. Let's say that unemployment is capped at $500/wk. If you are paid as little as $1, than your unemployment pay is reduced to $499 for that week. The only way (that I'm aware) that this is any different is if the unemployment claimant is fraudulent in reporting any earnings.

I'll be clear, I have never been part of the UAW so they mught have different rules. However, I am part of an industry that is laying off huge numbers, and was laid off for quite some time myself. In my experience, the above scenario is accurate. If I'm wrong, how can they do it? Does the UAW hav some special loopholes to get around the standard criteria for unemployment?

It may be state by state rules. If you google UAW supplement unemployment benefits you'll find the information I claimed, including tables that show how the UAW is promoting that members will get ~95% of their pay when laid off.

I believe what you are speaking of is when someone finds SOME work, that work pay is deducted from unemployment benefits. However, the UAW payment is an employee/employer funded supplement. So there is a difference there.

Probably the equivalent of tapping into a savings account for income vs. finding new part-time work to help during a difficult time.

Another way they reward you for waiting to find a union job.

As other's have stated the red car = RWD and the black one = AWD. I don't know where the photo of the black car was taken but I don't think it's Nurburgring. While it's been awhile since I visited I don't recall seeing black top roads in Germany epecially near the track.

joe,

Get up to date info. Much of what you stated is out of date already. The entire point of getting compensation while laid off is to hold over the employees until they could be used again once demand picks up. This is how the buyouts differ from the layoffs. With the buyouts they are totally separating from the company and can pursue other skills. With a layoff they are hoping to return when conditions warrant. Most people would rather not spend years retraining unless there are no alternatives. As for the 3 years of getting 95% of pay- I'd like to see a link on that one. Furthermore the pay structure and benefits given to UAW members are really inconsequential to the average customer if there is no discernable difference in the price of a UAW made vehicle and a non union worker made vehicle. Last time I checked the cars made by the transplants are often more expensive than comparable models made in UAW plants run by the big 3. Interesting how people that have an issue with union made cars dont mind if their German or Japanese made vehicles are made with union labor.

Hey guys, the GM bashing/defending is in the MECHANICS latest dribble. There were two simple questions asked about the photo.

I'll go with an above post. One's on grass, the others on pavement.

Other than that...I got nuthin.

1487 -

You tell me my information is out of date, you tell me to provide links, and then you do not yourself.

http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact03.php

Quote "In addition, the Supplemental Unemployment Benefits program provides income maintenance to laid-off workers, as well as employer-paid health insurance for up to 24 months for workers on layoff status."

(I don't know where I got 3 years from, I'll try to find it)

Go to the link and you'll find that it's 95%.

Again, seriously, you are deficient in reading comprehension. I was responding vq356mt's assertion that UAW paid benefits are in place of unemployment whilst foreign automakers with domestic mfring plants aren't. I corrected that statement; I did not mention anything about current UAW renegotiating (which changes every 2 weeks right now as the ship continues to burn).

My point is that receiving up to 2 years of almost fully paid leave is a huge disincentive to seek work outside of a union job. Among other reasons.

Quote from 1487, "Furthermore the pay structure and benefits given to UAW members are really inconsequential to the average customer if there is no discernable difference in the price of a UAW made vehicle and a non union worker made vehicle. Last time I checked the cars made by the transplants are often more expensive than comparable models made in UAW plants run by the big 3."

Really? No difference? I guess having a large drain on a company that needs to come from somewhere (and the workers are still having take-home pay equal to or greater than competitors), built into the cost of a car, yet the car maintains a similar price point (or less) to it's primary competitors even while losing market share......where oh where could that discrepancy come from?

I can think of 2 places of the top of my head. I'm sure you'll think of some too :)

Joe

P.s. Want to provide any of your own links?