2002 BMW M3: False Positive

I always keep a litre bottle of 10W-60 in mine. A case might be overkill. ;)

I was thinking those gauges suck. No oil pressure gauge? No voltmeter? What kind of performance car doesn't offer a full set of gauges to its driver? Not only does this M3 have an infestation of idiot lights, but the digital information console below the gauges doesn't even give you warning messages. Just the time and miles - great.

Contrast this with my '02 Z06 - not only does it have a full set of gauges including oil pressure and volts, if any gauge goes into a redline, the digital information screen will either spell out the problem in english, or say "CHECK GAUGES", as well as flash a check gauges light on the gauge cluster, and illuminate a "CHECK GAUGES" message on the Head up Display. If it's a critical problem like oil pressure or almost out of gas, it'll sound a warning chime too.

Anyway, isn't that idiot light that's on an indicator for oil pressure, not level?

Isn't it great that BMW took away the dipstick on the E92s? You'd have overfilled your oil without a dipstick.

stingray454: If the light is red, it indicates low pressure. If it's amber, it indicates you should check the oil level and most likely add some.

My E46 325i has done this twice before, randomly. But every time I check the oil it's fine. I guess it's just a glitch -- it doesn't happen enough to be annoying.

"Isn't it great that BMW took away the dipstick on the E92s? You'd have overfilled your oil without a dipstick."

Not true, because the E92 would have said, "Add one quart of oil." It doesn't give you a low oil warning without the resolution advisory on how much it needs.

"stingray454: If the light is red, it indicates low pressure. If it's amber, it indicates you should check the oil level and most likely add some."

Thanks for the clarification, Erin. I didn't know that.

That's even worse - not only do you have an idiot light that doesn't tell you much, but you also have to know what the different colors mean. This setup certainly would not pass muster in an airplane cockpit!

Would it have killed them to put in a separate light for low oil, and a different one for oil pressure? The Germans are great engineers, but man, they do some weird and questionable things sometimes!

Stingray - Plenty of performance cars get by with tach, speed, coolant gauge, and gas gauge. It's pitiful, I agree. I like that the M3 offers oil temp...I consider that more important than oil pressure (personally). But that's for my own reasons...

Your Z06 gauges sounds perfect. FYI, I loved sitting in the new Z06 on Friday at the Philly car show. It is 90% there on the interior with the leather stitched dash, upgraded materials. The center stack is still a little low-rent, and the seats need more bolstering for my liking, but that car is just so nice. And I was AMAZED and how well balanced the doors are for how long they are....engineers did an awesome job there.

Do they have detents to prevent them from swinging around?

Joe

Stingray, let me put you at ease because I can feel the tension of your un-informed rants through my computer screen.

The M3 IP has a dial for oil temperature, which actually does move up and down (as opposed to slowly creeping up to the middle point like other dummy gauges). Is oil pressure gauge really necessary? A drop in oil pressure is most likely due to a low oil level, which is shown first as that yellow oil can warning light, and red if it is seriously low. I can see it being mistaken for a flower watering can, so maybe the icon should be revised - thanks for pointing that out. At first sign of the yellow light, the owner can check the oil and top it off if necessary, but it's still OK to drive. Sudden catastrophic loss of oil pressure is highly unlikely, and if it happens, you're pretty much screwed already despite however many number of beeps and lights come on.

Green/yellow/red color convention is universal; therefore yellow is a warning, whereas Red means something more critical, or even suggesting to stop. It doesn't really need explanation but I've done it anyways. If you are colorblind, I can see that being a problem I guess.

The bottom display has a button to cycle through more than just time and miles, it can display outside temperature, avg MPG, and avg speed. And since you love beeps so much, it does beep if the outside temp drops below 37 deg.

How do you know that the Z06 will show "Check Gauges" when a gauge hits redline (oh there's that color issue again)?

I don't think battery voltage is that useful of a gauge, if you have a battery problem you will know it.

I've always disliked battery voltage gauges as a fixed gauge, but I'd like it if it was available via a cyclable menu. I'd much rather have oil temperature, if I had to make the choice.

And boost/vacuum :)

Joe

"Not true, because the E92 would have said, "Add one quart of oil." It doesn't give you a low oil warning without the resolution advisory on how much it needs."

If the sensor reading is faulty it doesn't matter what the computer tells you, it'll be wrong. It doesn't really matter if it says 1qt vs a simple yellow light. If they had no dipstick on the M3 they'd have overfilled the oil.

"Contrast this with my '02 Z06 - not only does it have a full set of gauges including oil pressure and volts, if any gauge goes into a redline, the digital information screen will either spell out the problem in english, or say "CHECK GAUGES", as well as flash a check gauges light on the gauge cluster, and illuminate a "CHECK GAUGES" message on the Head up Display. If it's a critical problem like oil pressure or almost out of gas, it'll sound a warning chime too."

stingray, your Corvette is without a doubt the single greatest performance car ever produced on this hunk of rock we call Earth - now can we stop hearing about it in every damn post? No one cares.

Someone should short the wear pad sensor on this car if the pads don't have wear sensors. That's what I did to my GTI when I swapped pads for Hawk HPSs. Every once in awhile on a rainy highway the light will come on, but when I turn the car on again later it's gone. 99% of the time I don't have to look at that dumb light (or hear the car beep at me everytime I turn it on).

Stingray --

Obviously, the Germans think such gauges are superfluous. Americans are just gauge happy. (Sarcasm.)

If you want more gauges, I'm sure Auto Meter will be happy to set you up with some boy-racer A-pillar gauges.

I have to agree with stingray it is stupid to use the same icon for low oil pressure and low oil level and just change the color of the light. I had 1994 Olds for a rental for a week and it at least had a light that said "check oil" and the regular oil can icon for low oil pressure. Didn't have to break the book out for that one. What's bad is that the "check oil" light came on in that small amount of time I had the car. It is also stupid to get rid of the dipstick. Oil is the blood of the engine. Not only does it tell you the level but the color, and smell of it can tell you what is going on with the engine. I hope no body else follows in BMWs footsteps. And even the best computers can have glitches. My iPhone's battery recently ran out of power even though the display indicated 50% power remaining. I would hate for my twin turbo six to seize up due to lack of oil while the display tells me every thing is fine.

I recently ran into the problem of the low oil light coming on for 5 seconds in my E46 (non-M) even though the low is far from low (I added 1/2 quart anyway). 100% of my research indicated a faulty oil level sensor, apparently not too uncommon on E46s. Reportedly a $100 part and should be replaced at the next oil change. My car has 157K on it and it's the first problem on my car in about 9 months, so I can't complain too much.

"If the sensor reading is faulty it doesn't matter what the computer tells you, it'll be wrong. It doesn't really matter if it says 1qt vs a simple yellow light."

Did I miss something? Why would the sensor reading be faulty? And there isn't just one in the E9x. What if you read the dipstick wrong? In actuality that's probably more likely to happen than getting a faulty reading from the oil sensing system.

"If they had no dipstick on the M3 they'd have overfilled the oil."

So lack of a dipstick automatically means the oil would be overfilled? At the same time the dipstick was eliminated BMW upgraded the OBC to give you the additional info you need to properly fill the oil. It would be stupid to do one without the other.

I've had multiple BMWs since 2005 with no dipsticks, have added oil multiple times, and I've never overfilled or had any problems.

Just get BMW part No. 83 29 0 144 484. It's a BMW accessory, a black nylon case that holds a liter of oil, a paper funnel, hand wipes, paper towel to wipe the dip stick, and plastic gloves. It's even got velcro on the back so it doesn't fly around in your trunk. You can find them on eBay for $5. I've got one in my '07 M Coupe, very handy.

"Did I miss something? Why would the sensor reading be faulty?"

Because that's what this blog entry is about, a malfunctioning low oil indicator.

"Because that's what this blog entry is about, a malfunctioning low oil indicator."

Ah... the oil sensing system on the E46 was rudimentary compared to the E9x. When BMW eliminated the dipstick, the system was significantly upgraded with redundant sensors and system logic since you don't have the dipstick as a back-up. The chances of a failure are still there, of course, but much less so than before. As I mentioned I've found the system to be very reliable.

"The bottom display has a button to cycle through more than just time and miles, it can display outside temperature, avg MPG, and avg speed. And since you love beeps so much, it does beep if the outside temp drops below 37 deg."

That's nice, but it should show more. The Driver Information Center on my Z06 will display just about EVERYTHING in plain english. All of the gauge data can be displayed in exact digital numeric value, plus the oil temp, all of the car's settings and options, and any warning messages including transmission oil temperature should it get too hot on the track. It can also display any OBD-II error codes if a check engine light comes on.

"How do you know that the Z06 will show "Check Gauges" when a gauge hits redline (oh there's that color issue again)?"

Because I've run the car very low on fuel before, and the light came on. It also says in the owner's manual the check gauges light will come on if any of the gauges are in the red zone.

"I don't think battery voltage is that useful of a gauge, if you have a battery problem you will know it."

I disagree. A voltmeter can help diagnose a battery problem from a voltage regulator problem, from an alternator problem.

It's OK to not have a dedicated gauge for voltage, but if there isn't a gauge, you should be able to at least pull up the reading on the digital display when you want to.

"stingray, your Corvette is without a doubt the single greatest performance car ever produced on this hunk of rock we call Earth - now can we stop hearing about it in every damn post? No one cares."

brian60 - Why are you so nasty? What, did I hit a nerve? Are you a BMW fan boy?

Look, I like the M3 a lot. But when it comes to instrumentation and driver information, my Z06 has a far better set up. IMO, a performance car should provide it's driver as much information, clear information, as possible, and not dumb it down with multi-colored idiot lights.

Since you're so nasty, here's a nasty gram back: why don't you make yourself useful and go play in traffic, as no one cares about you.

If you don't like my posts, don't read them!! Nobody is forcing you to read my posts.

Stingray, every car is different, and if a warning light pops up I would hope the owner would RTFM to figure out what the issue is. One quick read and you will know what the icons and colors mean. I still maintain that if you see the red oil can light, you've probably been seeing the yellow version of it for the past couple weeks and you knew you should have not ignored it, and you know the problem is getting worse due to the color change. I know asking Americans to apply logic is a stretch.

As for your voltage meter, it is still unnecessary because if you are experiencing electrical problems, you'll know it and you will have to then read the voltage to help diagnose it. For 99.5% of the time when there is no problem, it is worthless.

I agree that it would be nice to have these tucked away but accessible through the display. European and some Japanese cars are very icon-heavy, probably because in Europe it circumvents having to manufacture IP's with different languages for the different countries.

"brian60 - Why are you so nasty? What, did I hit a nerve? Are you a BMW fan boy?"

stingray: I'm not nasty, just a big believer in negative feedback: honking a bad drivers, leaving tiny tips for poor service, calling someone out who only cares to talk about themselves or their car - that sort of stuff. Not that I know of, try again and we'll see if something tingles. You could say that, considering that I purchased an E46 M3 last year, but I am quite aware of the flaws and foibles of the marque.

Stingray, first of all Z06 and M3 are not in the same class to compare with. Moreover this post is about E46 M3, not about Z06 instrument cluster. Anyone with a head who drives a car should be able to figure it out wth the light means by RTFM. IMO Z06 cluster is too boring, harder to read than E46's gauges and no need for voltage gauge and oil pressure gauge. Just a quick comparison: Would anyone rather be looking at this 12k mile a year:
http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/CorvetteZ06/Images/Cluster.jpg

Or this:
http://skene.org/M3/images/instrument_test.jpg

M3's instrument cluster is better than Z06's cluster in every way. End of the story

"M3's instrument cluster is better than Z06's cluster in every way. End of the story"

Wrong. The Z06 cluster is better because it displays TEXT. Having a car display OBD error codes in English is *really* useful.

"By m_thrizzle on February 3, 2009 2:24 PM
Stingray, every car is different, and if a warning light pops up I would hope the owner would RTFM to figure out what the issue is. One quick read and you will know what the icons and colors mean."

A good design is one in which the user doesn't need to look up a symbol in the owner's manual to know what it means. Spelling out the problem in english (such as "Check Oil") with separate warning lights, and/or a gauge with numeric values, or better yet, a message center displaying the situation, tells the driver exactly what the situation is. No confusion. No need to look things up and RTFM.

Explain how I'm wrong.

"By e34bmwlover on February 4, 2009 9:23 AM
Stingray, first of all Z06 and M3 are not in the same class to compare with. Moreover this post is about E46 M3, not about Z06 instrument cluster. "

First of all, the only thing separating the Z06 and M3 from being in the same class is a back seat. I agree they are not in the exact same class, but they are similar in many ways, and when both cars came out, they were compared head to head by many automotive publications. They also shared nearly identical price points.

I'm well aware of what this post is about, and I'm simply pointing out a comparison of how BMW could have done a better job with instrumentation and driver information. The information the M3 provides its driver is fine for a family car, or even a base 3-series. It's just basic information for those who don't care about driving, or about the car they are driving, and dumbed-down with idiot lights and even some dumb gauges (no numeric values on the dial, and no real time movement). BMW advertises their M line as their ultimate performance machines, yet the instrumentation they provide is sub-par for such a claim. Especially for a vehicle that cost north of $50k when new. No excuse for that.

"IMO Z06 cluster is too boring, harder to read than E46's gauges and no need for voltage gauge and oil pressure gauge. "

Boring? How is it boring? The gauges are multi-dimensional, giving the appearance of the smaller gauges hovering over the large gauges, there is a checkered pattern on the gauge faces, the gauges are lit in black light giving them a nice cool white glow, and of course there is a full set of gauges with real time readings and numeric values for all (i.e. the oil pressure gauge moves in real time to show the actual oil pressure, versus a gauge that doesn't move with just a "normal" reading sweep).

Harder to read? Are you BLIND?? You seriously need to get your eyes checked if you think the Z06's instruments are harder to read than the M3's.

No need for voltage and oil pressure gauges? Spoken like someone who really doesn't know much about cars. It's also like saying there is no need for an M3 or a Z06. While that's true (a Smart will get you from point A to point B too), they're nice to have.

"Just a quick comparison: Would anyone rather be looking at this 12k mile a year:
http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/CorvetteZ06/Images/Cluster.jpg

Or this:
http://skene.org/M3/images/instrument_test.jpg"

Yeah, nice try there skippy. The photo you linked of the Z06's instrument cluster was taken by a crappy camera phone from like 4 feet away, while the M3 gauge photo was a hi-res photo and closeup with everything lit up. Not even close to an apples-to-apples comparison.

Try this one instead:

http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i7/0714_13lo.jpg

http://www.splak.net/fbody/zo6/Phone056.jpg

and the M3 can't do this:

http://z06zone.com/corvette-c5-z06-08.jpg

What gen Z06 you have? C5 or C6? I'm guessing C6
Anyway I've never heard of anyone WHO ACTUALLY OWNS M3 complaining about the gauges or lack of it. I prefer oil temp gauge instead of oil pressure gauge. Every car manufacturer has it's own way of instrumentation. It doesn't always mean they are better /worse than each other, just different.
Anyway, vette may be a great car but you can't blame someone for loving M3 because they're bimmer guy at heart.
Moreover, when I think about vettes I can't stop thinking about the type of people drive them. It's usuually driven by some bloke that having a midlife crisis while M3's are driven by young executives/ businessman/ young crowd. You don't have to be cock anymore to drive a M3. Cocks have moved on to Audis now.
Btw last time I saw an oil pressure gauge and volt. gauge it was in a Ford Van.