2009 VW Jetta TDI: Will Joe Car Shopper Like DSG?

I have the feeling that most people test-driving a DSG know what it is. You don't get Average Plumber Jim Joe Bob going into Volkswagen dealerships and asking to test drive a diesel Jetta equipped with the DSG.

The "scrubbing off speed" while coasting would annoy me. A regular automatic will tend to coast further, and I usually coast in neutral in my cars with a regular manual transmission.

But, I suppose people who buy the TDI for its great gas mileage will accept it without complaint. After all, it's still a far more exciting drive than a Prius, and tens of thousands of people don't seem to mind its mediocrity.

I think most people will be put off by the way a DSG rolls back on a hill more than a conventional automatic.

I think James is right. People like familiarity. I can see a new car shopper, especially women who pay attention to details, noticing this "weird" transmission behavior and move on to something more familiar.

Orangutan --

If diesel begins to be more pervasive, as a lot of people in here think it should, than more Average Joe customers will be interested in diesel powered cars, and more people will have a chance to experience DSG transmissions.

The same could be said for Nissan's CVT transmissions that they put into almost everything now. People don't like it because it is unfamiliar and don't buy the car.

I agree with Orangutan that most people test-driving it will know what it is. I know what it is and will be test-driving it!

Personally, I dislike slushbox automatics because of the coasting and stoplight creep. I've only ever owned manuals, but DC is wearing me (or my knee cartilage) down, and I will look into a auto for my next purchase.

The ONLY problem I've ever had with the DSG is its half-second reaction time and on-off nature when creeping... makes a DSG-equipped car especially hard to parallel park because as you gradually let off the brake, the car eventually notices that you're trying to let it creep and lurches as the clutch engages (not badly, but enough to have to worry considerably more about hitting an adjacent car), at which point one's natural reaction is to hit the brakes again to control the lurch, which of course causes the computer to take the transmission back out of gear... etc.

Yes and no. Yes, some people may notice a difference but hopefully they realize that the DSG is more sophisticated and a step forward from the ol' torque converter auto tranny. No, because a lot of people really have no clue about what a car is doing or even care, because they just want to get from Point A to Point B in a cocoon of numbness and solitude. Such is the majority of American shoppers :(

I get the feeling Joe Car Shopper would buy a Civic Hybrid. I would see the average diesel Jetta buyer as a bit more in the know.

I would have seriously considered this car when I was in the market a couple years back. We'll have to see in a few more years when I'm in the market again. My only reservation is with VW's electrical gremlins.

I think most people's problem with DSG when shopping is "how much is this going to be to fix when it breaks?". I don't know what the answer is today, but when I was looking it was along the lines of "you don't want to know". DSG was newer then, but I still don't think it would be as cheap a fix as a conventional manual or auto.

I drove a Jetta knowing very little about the DSG other than what it was called. I found it to be a very capable transmission. It did react differently than a "normal auto" and I found that I liked the way that it shifted and drove. But as to really breaking down the difference I didn't spend much time thinking about it other than "I like they way it works"

I'm with AMTalker, I think it drives perfectly normally. When i bought my jetta (2.0T not TDI) i knew what a DSG was and how it works and when you leave it in D it drives exactly like a slushbox but without the slush. It's like a velvety smooth auto in D and a F1 gearbox in manual mode.

I dont notice that much problem with coasting, it still coasts a pretty decent range, maybe thats a symptom specifically with the TDI?

We need edit buttons.

I will say this though, the VW DSG's roll like 4 feet (ok 1 foot) when you put them in park. The park gear must have a total of 4 teeth because its ridiculous how far the car rolls (forward or backwards depends on the hill) in park, scares me, i've started using the hand brake when i park.

Couple points from a DSG owner (in a GTI):
- the car can roll back a bit when starting on an incline. i suppose it could be disconcerting at first, but it's easy to control.
- i disagree completely about parallel parking issues. if you make positive inputs to the gas and brake pedals, there's nothing to worry about.
- you should always use the parking brake on anything resembling uneven ground. The parking prawl is a tiny little piece of metal; and do you really want to put the added stress on the gears if it's not necessary?
- i have no idea what people are talking about regarding the coasting issues... the car coasts just fine.
- otherwise, the DSG shifts at least as smoothly as a regular slushbox when driving normally. i've always found shift speed and firmness to be appropriate to the situation.
- any complaints will disappear after the first time you pull the right paddle at full throttle.

parallel parking a DSG can be hell. precise throttling and quick braking is required. other than that it's a great piece of tech.

I see what the author is saying....but I also think he is wrong. Just because regular car buyers don't buy European cars. They buy Japanese cars (I'd say American cars too, but is that true anymore?).

Joe and Jill Car Shopper buy Accords, Camrys, and Corollas.

I see no reason why the average American would not consider a VW? I know plenty who buy just on looks, Japanese, German, American, they don't care. Plenty of times I've questioned someone's choice of vehicle and told them such-and-such is not reliable, is a poor vehicle, and they say it's cute, or has such a nice interior. My Grandmother's friend just bought a Jetta from a Malibu and she is no car expert.

Funny that UK reviews have to explain the feel of CVT and automatics. Manual and auto-manuals are the norm to their reviews.

I don't remember if this TDI motor is available with a conventional manual - is it? I think that would be a better choice...

Could a current DSG owner tell me what the maintenance cost is? I read somewhere the DSG requires a costly periodic maintenance procedure. True? If someone could pry the stick shift out of my hands I may consider the DSG. Drove it once (Audi A3) and it doesn't totally suck ;0) Thanks.

My main concern with the DSG is what happens if it fails out of warranty. My friend had the CVT in his 2004 Audi A4 and it quit at 11,000 miles...the problem was relatively minor, but since the CVT is too complex for mechanics to crack open and work on, it's a sealed unit from Audi and the entire thing had to be replaced. If it hadn't been under warranty it would've been $6000. I would worry about the same thing happening with DSG, except out of warranty.

clarkma5,
All car transmissions are suppose to last the life of the vehicle.
It's a freak chance that your transmission would fail during your ownership.

Certainly it might be true that certain transmission models are an exception. That's why one would use Consumer Reports.

"It's a freak chance that your transmission would fail during your ownership."
I've know several people with freak chance cars then. Because several with different makes have had them go. It basically is a freak chance that you will have big problems with any car, but if I'm shopping for lottery tickets for that game I'd like to buy the lowest priced one.

I test drove an A3 and the thing that was annoying with it is that at low speeds 15-25 where I'd just be moving along at that speed, not accelerating or slowing through it the transmission seemed to be looking non-stop for the best gear. In a five seconds it would feel like it was shifting as many times.
It didn't make me not want to buy the car though. That honor went to the overly pushy salesman that insisted we were stupid if we didn't buy the used one that he wanted us to buy, coming close to physically stopping me from leaving. Between the bad taste now associated with Audi in our minds from that experience and being told over and over how great they'd treat us when we brought it in for work (just how often were they planning on that?) we haven't looked at another Audi.

@tmanz - not sure when you drove it or if audi's DSG is different but my jetta does no such thing.

@rascal99 - there is maintenance...every 40k, VW does a transmission fluid change, it costs around 400-500 dollars.

I would take a manual.... But if that's not an option,I would take a regular auto over a DSG, in a regular car. In high end car.....then I'll go with dual clutch.

reasons, it offers no advantage over an auto when driving normally (like when commuting). DSG is expensive to repair maintain and replace if needs be. not just any tranny shop can work on them, you must go to the dealer and pay their overpriced costs.

i'll take a manual over an automatic any day, but reality is we're lazy in america and as a result have a love-affair with automatics. I doubt most jetta drivers will notice, and those that do probably will just accept it as a quirk.

A fluid change at 40K for $500. That is crazy. So you have to pay the inflated price for the TDI, then diesel fuel and then a $500 service charge every 2 or 3 years. That's too much for me. I am not interested in a car that has a minimum of $1000 worth of maintenance before 100,000 miles.

I had an opportunity to drive an EOS with DSG and immediately noticed the transmission was quite different but very thrilling to drive.

I had been driving conventional automatics since I first got my license.

When I stepped into the GTI with the DSG, it was the transmission that immediately sold me on the car. I had been set on getting a manual, but the DSG was amazing.

I think though that this may be in part due to my nature as an automotive enthusiast.

Still, I see dual clutch transmissions as the future of 'automatic' transmissions. I actually like the way it scrubs off speed while coasting. It requires less use of the brake pedal on certain hills, or coasting to a stop, etc.

*** phweeeeet *** time out

A $400 transmission fluid change? Ok, there has to be something else they do. Something magical. Or they are charging $400 a labor hour at VW now.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=169356

thats what VW does for the fluid change

pengwin,

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=169356

That's why I will not buy another TDi. to save money you have to be willing to do your own maintenance and repairs. despite it's great fuel mileage, you are not really saving anything over a regular, cheaper gas car.

My fiance has a Jetta with 64,000 miles. It has had 100% of its service on schedule performed at only VW dealers. She drives like a grandmother, and last week the auto developed a shifting problem between 2nd and 3rd gear.

We took the car to VW where Several shocking events then occured:

1. The serviceman told me VW tranny's are sealed, not serviceable, and to check what was wrong with the shifting would cost $648. This would include an oil change.
2. This was a common problem on the 4cyl Jetta (very common car in their lineup)
3. Our $648 would go towards the cost of 1 of 2 outcomes: (1) New Valve Body in the Tranny $1800 or (2) Re manufactured by VW tranny for $4400

The car is worth 6-7000 bucks putting us in an interesting dilemma. ESPECIALLY WHEN THE CAR ONLY HAS 64k ON IT. [Side note, the car burns ~1 quart of oil per 1,200 miles which the dealer wouldn't fix under warranty because it's "within spec"

Thankfully, (feel the sarcasm) it turned out to be the valve body, $1800 dollars later we have a fixed Jetta. You will find it for sale come tomorrow.

We've owned our last rattle-box, oil burning, tranny chewing turd VW

ryanmb21, i'm going to assume you own a a MK4 jetta.

I think a few other's mention.

Yes the VW DSG required very expensive maintance every 40k.

And if not done, you can expect very expensive replacement (7-8k)

and from reading various VW forums, there are many DSG people that dont know why its different, and are confused by it.

ryanmb21,

They are correct, the MK4 VWs 2.0 engine does burn a lot of oil.....very common issue (even though VW doesn't think it's an issue).

This forum seals the deal. With that kind of standard maintance I will not be considering a Jetta TDI. It's a shame too, it was a great driving car, nice inside and huge trunk.

Good call, leave the VW junk at the dealer.

I love the DSG, it's the smoothest shifting car I've ever driven. I spend at least two hours a day commuting in my 09 TDI. I have enough confidence in German engines and transmissions to treat myself to a nice ride and not speculate or stress over future 'what if' situations. I expect DSG to cost more to buy and maintain, but the benefits are worth it.

I believe the warranty period on the '09 DSG trany was extended to 100K miles due to the recall of a sensor that tends to overheat. I think the announcement was in August 2009. I haven't had mine replaced yet. Parts for the recall are forthcoming. Symptoms are the tranny feels like it is in N or 1st and the drive selection display blinks on all the possible selections, P,R,N,D,S. This only happened to me once last February at about 7K miles and hasn't happened since. Currently near 25K miles with no other issues with the tranny. My wife noticed the lag at starts from a light. I only observe the lag once in a while. It is sometimes interesting when you punch it at about 25. The tranny drops down a gear and the engine revs. There is a lag before the car speeds out of the path of the guy you just changed lanes in fornt of. Response is better if you only put the peddle most of the way and not all the way to the floor. I plan on making up the higher maintenance costs of the DSG with fuel savings an the higher resale value of the diesel version of the vehicle.

I have received DSG warranty extension for 09 SportWagen TDI. I also went to the dealer, and they said there is no immediate recall/repair to be done, as the symptoms are not impairing "drivability".
Basically, VW plans to replace your DSG with a refurbished one if it really fails. I think 100K miles/10 years warranty is a fair offer.
Regarding different feel of the DSG, I only see it when coming to a stop. Once DSG shifts down to 2 or 1, you clearly feel it slowing the car. It may be more pronounced in TDIs, as diesel engines have higher compression rate. I got used to putting DSG in neutral to coast. This doesn't bother me, except that you have to remember to engage it back immediately when you are stopped, since otherwise you will have to press break pedal to engage DSG again, and this isn't pleasant.

As for the lag mentioned by several contributors, it is not DSG - it the turbo in TDI. Diesel cars always had this problem, and TDI minimized it, but not eliminated. It is especially pronounced when the engine is cold. If you have to join a dense traffic from a small road and your TDI is really cold - especially in winter - make sure you got space to merge. A 1-second lag is not unusual. This happens regardless of the transmission type you have. Actually, I do not understand reasons for this initial sluggishness of diesel engines, but I observed it in every diesel car I drove.

DSG is very effective when one uses motor to brake going downhill - no auto transmission with do it well. I save brakes and fuel - the computer shows 0 fuel usage. This is less than if you switched to neutral and used brakes.

Another comment: I have seen reports blasting DSG as upshifting too early or "unpredictably". I cannot confirm this and, honestly, I believe it is some bias talking. TDI is built for fuel efficiency. DSG shifts up to keep the car just above the engine stalling point. Some may not like it, but it is critical for low fuel usage. The pattern becomes completely predictable after a week or so. Downshifting works just fine if you step on it.

In addition to that, the "S"mode changes DSG behavior completely. In this mode the car is nearly aggressive. I have seen various "performance buttons" on auto transmissions, but compared to the DSG "S" setting they did very little. "S" mode changes the car behavior dramatically. The price is fuel consumption. I get on average 32 MPG in city driving, but change it to "S" mode and you will see it drop to 24 or less. This is a trade-off. It is hard to blame VW for providing two completely different driving experiences in one car.