2009 Nissan GT-R: A Suspension Tune from Greatness

Seems the entire purpose of this car was to achieve that 7:26 sec 'Ring time.

Maybe we need an Inifniti version, that way I won't have to abandon my wife over the holidays...

Paul S.

This particular photo seems to exaggerate the cars mass. You can tell that the designers tried to hide the size of the car by putting black plastic at the bottom. I prefer the leaner look of the R8.

Forget BMW, the Japanese should apprentice at GM's performance division, where they seem to have nailed the magnetic ride control shock system used in the ZR1 and CTS-V to offer the perfect balance between ride quality and handling, with no compromises.

Ferrari seems to like it too with their Fiorano.

That lower black plastic is reminiscent of the Chrysler 300M Touring.

>> Forget BMW ..

??? BMW had this mastered 35 years ago (at least), with passive, non-electronic shocks, no less. Paul is exactly correct that BMW gets it and the Japanese never seem to realize there's room for improvement.

On a GT-R-sized budget it's verging on shameful that Nissan didn't pull it off even WITH an electronic crutch.

So sure, look at the mag-damp system if you like, but to discount an acknowledged master wouldn't be smart.

I've read about how Japanese aftermarket suspension companies tune their stuff, and I wonder if the same thing is happening here.

Their fun roads are in the mountains. They're pretty well maintained and smooth, but they're twisty enough that cars with thick anti-roll bars end up cocking up their inside rear wheel off the ground and losing traction. So they use small or no anti-roll bars, and control roll and transient response almost entirely with high spring rates. I have TEIN coilovers on my Miata and the great damping mostly makes up for the stiffness, but it's still clearly felt. Especially on expansion joints like that.

I heard somewhere how Japanese and German suspension tuning follows two distinct philosophies. I don't remember the details, but it's something like one favors stiffer springs and softer compression damping, vs softer springs and stiffer damping.

Help me remember, anyone?

I think people stare at it because it's so hideous. People stared at Elephant man too. Granted the performance is top notch but if you are spending 70 large, there should be no ifs ands or buts about anything. Especially the transaxle which is apparently made of crystal and TNT...

Worse yet, the car is so saddled with electronic gimmickry that you have to drive at speeds that will get you arrested to have even a little fun. I'll take a Miata or used 350z and a small repo'd condo in Florida for that kind of scratch, thank you.

One "secret" suspension trick VW uses to good effect, and which B. Lutz appropriated for some new GM vehicles, are hydraulic bushings.

"Forget BMW, the Japanese should apprentice at GM's performance division, where they seem to have nailed the magnetic ride control shock system used in the ZR1 and CTS-V to offer the perfect balance between ride quality and handling, with no compromises."

If they did, you'd be complaining about the Japanese stealing GMs tecnology. I'd rather take a firm suspension than a comfortable one like the ZR1 which tends to be juddery in sports mode(read ILs review again), so much that they had to use comfort mode on the track. No comprises, eh...? (the CTS-V is impressive though).

"Seems the entire purpose of this car was to achieve that 7:26 sec 'Ring time"

7.29, thats the lap time. Look up your lap times again. One could equally say the ACR and the ZR1 exsisted for ring times only, except in their case, it would be a true claim.

"Compliance combined with sporting control is the Euro's ace in the hole."

Please name a European car that handles as well as the Nissan or comes near the lap times. The 911 GT2 which comes close in performance isn't a great driver either. The M3 has good compliance but is not worth bragging about on a track. The Merc AMG black series, again read the reviews. It is true that the roads in Japan are among the best though.

"One "secret" suspension trick VW uses to good effect, and which B. Lutz appropriated for some new GM vehicles, are hydraulic bushings."

Those bushings are only used on twist beam rear axles. The same units are used on the Cobalt and they are very expensive. Ever since VW started using independent rear suspensions, they no longer need those specific bushings.

"BMW had this mastered 35 years ago (at least), with passive, non-electronic shocks, no less. Paul is exactly correct that BMW gets it and the Japanese never seem to realize there's room for improvement.

On a GT-R-sized budget it's verging on shameful that Nissan didn't pull it off even WITH an electronic crutch.

So sure, look at the mag-damp system if you like, but to discount an acknowledged master wouldn't be smart."

Which is why BMW has now entered the electronic dampening realm along with everyone else. Delphi's MR system are simply the most advanced fastest reacting dampers in the world, period. This fact cannot be argued. Many other electronic dampers are not continuously variable and use predetermined values not to mention much slower in their reaction times. If BMW has truly "mastered" this decades ago, why does the vaunted M3 (M5) feature optional electronic dampening? I remember some guy used to argue to me about "electronic crutches" years ago when I first signed up on the Townhall forums. You wouldn't happen to be the person, would you?

" BMW had this mastered 35 years ago (at least), with passive, non-electronic shocks, no less. "

PBR - Last I checked, BMW was still using STRUTS on most of their better handling cars. Hardly advanced technology. BMW has mastered the use of struts, I'll give them that, but that's not much better than GM mastering the use of leaf springs. It works, but...

ace47 - "I'd rather take a firm suspension than a comfortable one like the ZR1 which tends to be juddery in sports mode(read ILs review again), so much that they had to use comfort mode on the track. No comprises, eh...? "

That's correct, no compromises. The GT-R rides like it will knock your teeth out compared to ZR1, and the ZR1 handles better. Read ILS review again. So what if the faster lap times are in "comfort" mode - it's just a label for a setting. If they called the same setting "track 2" mode, would it make a difference?

"That's correct, no compromises. The GT-R rides like it will knock your teeth out compared to ZR1, and the ZR1 handles better. Read ILS review again. So what if the faster lap times are in "comfort" mode - it's just a label for a setting. If they called the same setting "track 2" mode, would it make a difference?"

So GM couldn't even label the car properly. Typical. Surely even you have the sense to know there are other factors that allow for ride qualities. Combine the GT-Rs 20inch wheels to runflat tyres and its a no brainer that the ride will be stiff, given the cars weight and corner grabbing abilities. And incidentally how much faster was the ZR1 with magnetic ride and those sticky tyres? 105k for a 2(I think) second difference in lap times? No thanks, I'll take cheaper car, which seats four, has a bigger trunk, looks original and as an added bonus does not have an interior that will make one puke, interiors like that are another one of the ZR1 bag of tricks. The ultra comfortable seats on the GT-R is yet another upside, it will hold you in place on bad roads. The ZR1 will just fling you around.

Kudos on the magnetic ride for GM though. They actually came up with something new AND useful.

As someone who has owned a GT-R for a while (4 months), I think people need to drive this car to really appreciate its virtues. I've owned 2 Z06's, several Porsches, an E46 BMW M3, and driven several Ferraris - this car really basically destroys any perceptions of what a car can be. Get looks - you betcha, and not because people find it ugly. The car has people hanging out their cars in the rain with camera phone taking pics - not once but several times per outings. Long distance trips - awesome. Spirited driving is involving -electronics and all! The transmission issues are overblown - warm the car up and enjoy. In town driving is as docile as driving your mom's Camry - listen to the radio and drive home at a relaxed pace from a hard day's work. (Try that in heavy traffic with a manual transmission!) Really, the car rocks, and while everyone won't warm up to it's looks, and it's not perfect in all ways, it really does set a new benchmark in car performance and what a car can do in different driving needs.

"Seems the entire purpose of this car was to achieve that 7:26 sec 'Ring time."

I don't think I'd agree with that. Also, didn't the GT-R do those times with racing slicks? I thought I read that somewhere; not sure though.

chavis10 >> "why does the vaunted M3 (M5) feature optional electronic dampening?"

b/c they know some people will pay for it, and some wouldn't even consider the car without it. Anyone care to chime in on how well it works in the real world?

chavis10 >> "I remember some guy used to argue to me about "electronic crutches" years ago when I first signed up on the Townhall forums. You wouldn't happen to be the person, would you?"

Nope, not that guy. Hope you're not too disappointed...

Funny, the GT-R will murder any current BMW in production.

Nissan doesn't need to take lessons from anyone.

Maybe Paul would prefer a Buick...:-)

ace47 - You should have quit while you're behind - you keep digging yourself in a deeper and deeper hole with some of your blatently biased. OK, you hate the ZR1, and the GT-R gives you orgasms. Fine, we get it.

"Combine the GT-Rs 20inch wheels to runflat tyres and its a no brainer that the ride will be stiff, given the cars weight and corner grabbing abilities."

The ZR1 runs 20's as well. Try again. Corner grabbing ability? The ZR1 outhandles the GT-R in every metric, and does so without AWD, while riding better. That's better suspension and chassis tuning right there. Period.

"And incidentally how much faster was the ZR1 with magnetic ride and those sticky tyres? 105k for a 2(I think) second difference in lap times? "

Do you live near the Nurburgring? Do you get to drive it often? When was the last time you drove on it, and got a lap time under 8 minutes? Hmmm?

The ZR1 is a MUCH faster car than the GT-R in nearly every situation outside of the Nurburgring, except for foul weather conditions. On a fast track like Willow Springs, the ZR1 will make the GT-R look slow by comparison. And yes, it is $30k worth faster.

"No thanks, I'll take cheaper car, which seats four, has a bigger trunk, looks original"

That's fine, some people like slower cheaper cars. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Looks original? Original doesn't necessarily mean better. The Scion Xb is original, and ugly. The Aztec was original and ugly. You get the idea. I kind of like the look of the GT-R, except for the nose. But a lot of people don't. Put the ZR1 against the GT-R on a beauty contest, and the ZR1 will crush it 2 to 1, guaranteed. It's just a better looking car, and most people agree.

"and as an added bonus does not have an interior that will make one puke, interiors like that are another one of the ZR1 bag of tricks. "

Have you ever even sat in a new Corvette? I don't think you have. Maybe if you got yourself away from your computer and car magazines and got out more, you would be able to experience these cars in real life. The ZR1's interior isn't that bad. It's biggest faults are the steering wheel, seats, and it doesn't look much different than the base Corvette's. Hardly deal killers though. It's like a Sports Illustrated swimsuit model wants to sleep with you, and she has a mole on her back - you're gonna sleep on the floor?

"The ultra comfortable seats on the GT-R is yet another upside, it will hold you in place on bad roads. The ZR1 will just fling you around."

News flash: seats are easily replaceable. The aftermarket makes seats that bolt right into the stock seat frames of the ZR1, and they are far more comfortable and supportive than the GT-R's. If you pass up a world beating performance car like the ZR-1 just because of the seats, then you're not smart enough to own one in the first place.

What is wrong with you people! Have we lost all civility that we can't even talk-shop about cars without insulting the other guy? It is like online forum road-rage.........!

Don't get me wrong, a little trash talking goes with the territory...but I get the distinct sense a couple guys here want to bash each other heads in. It is #$%&! stupid.

I'm laughing at Stingray calling anybody else biased. THis coming from the guy that basically says anything not GM is crap. I don't recall the ZR1 "murdering" the GT-R in ANY performance areas. Is it faster? Yes. Is it also a completely different kind of car? Yes. The GT-R is plenty fast enough and a damn fine automobile. So is the ZR1. Why can't you just admire both of them for the excellent engineering that they both have?