2008 Subaru Impreza WRX STI: Roadtrippin' With My Least Favorite Ally

Excellent post. My only observation is that many complain about the BMW interiors not being a good value for the price of the cars. While I personally have no problems with them, it's interesting that a BMW is being considered the "value" here.

Another comparison I would make, especially if you are looking for long-term cost of ownership, would be a G37 sedan. Great interior, fun to drive, and you aren't "just another 3 series prick."

Although, for a lease, I'd go with the 335i :)

^^^ G drivers aren't that highly regarded, either. :P

thats why remaining 08s now come with 8k + cash on the hood

opfreakx, welcome to last month (WTLM)! j/k :o)

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1630732

i agree with dragonflight about the g being a better comparison because u can get a g35x or g37x for comparable price, even though a 08 g35x is under 30k now

The current 328i would be an excellent road trip car, particularly with the standard suspension. I rode in one recently and was really surprised at just how comfortable it is (though a bit tight on headroom)

We used to own a 2001 Mazda Tribute. It was an odd sort of car, it had really egregious wind and road noise, got about 20 MPG even loping down the freeway (plus a tiny 14.something gallon tank), a chintzy interior, a mediocre stereo...in other words, all the ingredients for a terrible road trip car. But somehow it just swallowed the miles and was great on long trips. Maybe it was the comfy seats, the low revs on the freeway, the adept suspension, and the steering that didn't require correction...

Anyway that's sorta the mother of all tangents but the point is that based on just your list of complaints I still might find the STi to be a perfectly serviceable road trip companion, but then again I am 22 and foolish.

Jeremy Clarkson had a few hilarious observations in a recent episode of Top Gear: "fewer luxuries than an Egyptian lavatory," "uglier than a war wound," and "drives just soft and wallowy." Make mine EVO!

@felonious

maybe so, but when people hear someone say "I drive a BMW" it's almost a transliteration for "I am a prick" for those who don't understand the joys of driving.

If you say "I drive an Infiniti" you might as well have said Acura or Lexus...non-car people don't understand the difference.

Glad to see the STI make a trek up north to show it some weather change. I love that Powell's and I go there every time I'm in the Tigard/Beaverton area.

That must have been rough and I think you shouldn't have to put up with it. How about you loan me the STI for a few months and I'll put up with the suffering instead.

:)

BTW... how come you only got 20 mpg in the STI and Josh got 34.8 MPG?

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/2008/12/2008-subaru-impreza-wrx-sti-your-mileage-may-vary.html

Damm, where's the edit feature.

Just noticed Josh wrote both blogs.

Oh well, it's been a long day.

I had to chuckle a little when the 135i was first reviewed. Most folks thought that it didn't make much sense in a world where the 335i delivered more space for a very similar price. At the same time, nobody questioned $35K+ hotted up econoboxes. It used to be that cars like the EVO and STi could outrun premium rivals for a fraction of the cost. Now though, I can't see how they make much sense. I'll take the BMW.

Agreement or disagreement aside, that is one extremely well written and thought-out Long Term blog post. It got right to the heart of what it is like to own and drive this car in real life. This is the kind of car that most car enthusiasts will own - somewhat affordable (at least compared to the R8 and GT-R) high performance car that can also be a daily driver. So thanks for the update.

Now for the agreement part - as I read through your post, I kept thinking to myself all the great new and used BMWs you could get for somewhere near the same price. The 2005 325 convertible my uncle just bought for under $25,000 really made me rethink what is possible when you think of affordable performance. Then there's always the Camaro, if GM survives.

Great post! Weren't there any fun times on this long trip where you could have used to sti for what it's meant to do?

For those who wonder, Oregon roads are very loud - they use coarse asphalt on the freeways. Next time you drive up here, Josh, try the BMW on the same freeways and see if it is really that much quieter.

BTW, how many Outbacks did you see while you were up in Oregon and Washington? I see anywhere from 5 to 20 per day and that's just in local parking lots. Outbacks are relatively quiet on Oregon roads.

Granted, the BMW is going to be a more satisfying drivers car because it is RWD and reasonably refined if pricy (thanks to the euro).

When did Powell's become all...new? I guess I have been away from Portand longer than I thought, because there was only the one store and it was a warren of teetering shelves of used books in a former car dealership downtown. Next to Weinhard's brewery, I think.

In Southern Ontario, I think the G drivers are just as bad as the 3-series drivers. The lower prices and lease rates may be great for BMW/Infiniti sales, but the brand loses prestige in my eyes when some 17 year old kid cuts me off in his new-blinged out G37, lol.

Who pays $40k for an STI? Perhaps only Edmunds?

I've taken longish road trips and I am not deaf at the end -- or getting 20mpg on them. Maybe the Oregon roads and the author's driving style should be examined more thoroughly?

I do agree with the stereo comment -- the STI's head unit sucks.

But I couldn't find anything that beat the practicality and fun for the $33k I paid for mine.

From my experience, the people who buy the cars mentioned are as follows:

G35/G37 - people who want an affordable performance car (similar to the Z crowd). Yes, you'll see some teenagers driving these whose rich mommy and daddy bought it for them.

BMW 1/3 - People who care about image over substance and want people to believe that they're successful, even though they're buried in debt and can barely afford the lease payments. Not saying that they aren't good cars, but this is the crowd that they attract. AKA the 40K millionaires.

STI/EVO - 30-somethings who want to relive their high school glory days. We're going all the way to state, baby!

This is my problem with these cars as well. Much as I want an Evo MR, it's impossible to justify the price. At $32k, tops, it would be a no-brainer, but once you go over $39k, there are just so many incredible CPO BMW's out there.

Economy car, but without the fuel economy or low price. D'oh!

Interest post. Do you suppose a standard WRX would have been any better as far as comfort and noise? I think they have adjustable lumbar, and narrower tires would help with the road noise.

I have a base Mazda3 and it's no Lexus, but it seems at least as quiet as the Civic and Lancer I tested. Maybe a MazdaSpeed3 would be a better road tripper than the STI or EVO (not quite the same performance category, I know). Although that's also a 5-door, and hatchbacks tend to let in more noise than sedans.

Its not just about BMWs, its about a wide range of cars available for close to $40k. I'd buy a G8 GXP before I bought an STI. More space, more power, better looks, similar mileage. I cannot imagine paying anywhere close to $39k for an Impreza.

"I have a base Mazda3 and it's no Lexus, but it seems at least as quiet as the Civic and Lancer I tested. "

Yah my '08 Lancer was pretty noisy on the road, not going to lie.

Josh - great post! I agree completely.

These cars, the STi and Evo, made some sense when they were first introduced in the U.S. earlier in this decade, when they were fast and priced around $30k. Now they became, heavier, thirstier, slower, and much more expensive, while still based on economy cars. I've always said an economy car is a terrible platform to build a $40k+ performance car on. It's just dumb.

Josh,

Nice Red Hot Chili Peppers reference in the blog title.

These STIs are going for 32k now (base, though there's not too much to upgrade on them). Makes it more palatable, but not really affordable considering the ranks of the new or slightly used performance models in that price segment.

I really don't think a 335i or G35 enters into this segment. This car is in a unique segment. It's about, excuse the expression, balls-out performance.

This car can be tuned to ridiculous levels. And most owners do tune them. 400 crank hp and torque? Absolute piece of cake. 500 crank hp and torque? Not too hard either. You've got the traction, and the drivetrain is built to handle ALOT of power. The suspension is decent stock and easily upgraded. The steering and brakes are pretty much set-up stock for anything you'd throw at them.

This car is also pretty darn lightweight for it's setup and segment. Several hundred pounds lighter than a 135i or current gen. EVO. Low center of gravity. Decent weight distribution.

In short, it's a great platform to build a monster off of....

And even if most owners don't do more than just a basic tune & exhaust, one of the reasons they buy it is because of that great platform.

You can't compare that to a G35. Or even a 335i.

Or any other "spacious, luxurious 4-door"

Joe

P.s. Road-noise is 90% a function of tires/surface.

P.p.s. I'm not a fan of the current STI :)

You can buy a CPO E46 M3 with a warranty up to 100k miles and also purchase a maintenance plan, and you'll pretty much be set.

The maintenance plan would not be under BMW of North America's coverage if the vehicle is already outside its original 4-year/50,000 (whichever comes first) maintenance plan.

True, but if you're buying a CPO car it probably falls within that limit. Alternatively, you can buy one from a private party and buy an extended warranty & maint plan yourself (or find one for sale that already has these things!)

@joefrompa,

"P.s. Road-noise is 90% a function of tires/surface."

Can you back this up, Joe? Anecdotally, I can think of numerous cars that should have been noisy based on tires/surface, but weren't. A notable example is the Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 we tested recently -- that thing was luxury-car quiet over practically every surface I drove it on, and it was wearing gigantic truck tires. By contrast, our old long-term Tundra was pretty noisy.

Of course, tires and surface are important factors. But surely the amount of sound-deadening insulation in the floor and wheelwells has a lot more than 10% to do with it.

Hey SBT,

I'll back it up through a statement, but not a reference. I hope that's sufficient.

The reason behind my original statement: You can take a "vault" (like a bentley) and put it on a terrible road surface with really noisy tires, and it'll still be mostly quiet. It's supressing the road noise from entering the cabin....but the road noise is still being generated. Open up the windows and you'll see

Conversely, you can take a very road noisy car (STI) and put some very quiet tires on it (New Toyo Versado, with it's unique inner tread-wall design for instance) and it will be massively less noisy.

Road noise first starts at the road/tire interaction. That's the 90%. The other 10% is resonance of road-generated vibrations within the chassis, door cavities, etc.

The observance of road noise is the car design allowing the noise to enter the cabin. But it's not the car itself generating the road noise (though alignment and designated tire size can impact it).

Let me know your thoughts.

joe

Great post. It sums up what most people feel about the STI. Hopefully, Subaru will get the message.

"I really don't think a 335i or G35 enters into this segment. This car is in a unique segment. It's about, excuse the expression, balls-out performance."

Joe - the point is, once a car based on an economy car platform crossed the $40k barrier, which the STi and the Evo have, it opens up a whole universe of alternative vehicles in the entry level luxury segment.

For the most part, people drive cars based on economy cars because that is all they can afford - fast or not. In many cases, they would rather drive a BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Infiniti, Acura, Cadillac, Lexus, etc., even if it is a few seconds slower 0-60 than the tuned econobox. Now at $40k+, they CAN drive a BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Infiniti, Acura, Cadillac, or Lexus, instead of a hopped up Subaru Imprezza or Mitsubishi Lancer. That's the issue.

Joe,

I think we're getting into "If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, does it make a sound?" territory here.

Sure, there's always noise at the site of the road/tire interaction. If we could shrink ourselves and hang out inside one of the Lexus LS460's wheelwells, we'd observe a lot of noise. From that vantage point, it's 100% tires/surface, 0% car design.

But the crucial point is one you made yourself: "The observance of road noise is the car design allowing the noise to enter the cabin."

What I'm saying is, *observed* road noise isn't "90% a function of tires/surface" unless we're talking about a car -- like the STI -- that doesn't have any sound-deadening insulation. In the LS460's case, for example, tires/surface might make a perceptible difference, but the car is still going to remain quiet just about all the time. So in that case, observed road noise is probably more like 10% tires/surface, 90% car design.

But I'm sure you'd agree with that. I suspect we're just making the same point in different ways.

-SBT

"But the crucial point is one you made yourself: "The observance of road noise is the car design allowing the noise to enter the cabin."

What I'm saying is, *observed* road noise isn't "90% a function of tires/surface" unless we're talking about a car -- like the STI -- that doesn't have any sound-deadening insulation. In the LS460's case, for example, tires/surface might make a perceptible difference, but the car is still going to remain quiet just about all the time. So in that case, observed road noise is probably more like 10% tires/surface, 90% car design."

I actually don't agree with that completely, as I wrote before. If you put quiet tires on the STI, it'll dramatically reduce road noise....insulation or not.

And, further, many owners of new e90 BMWs (i.e. 335s) complain about road noise on the run-flats....despite the sound insulation and chassis tuning. Those tires are damn noisy (sport package) after about 15k miles.

Now, don't get me wrong. Take a car like the STI and remove the road noise and all the sudden maybe you realize all the engine and wind noise too. I'm just talking road noise here ;)

Stingray - You could've bought a Porsche instead of that Z06. But your own statements in the past have said (and I agree) that for the money, there was nothing that touched it performance-wise.

I totally agree that the current STI is overpriced (hence why it's now selling for 32k). But for 35k, there's really nothing that can compare with it's total performance envelope AND tunability. It's a complete off-the-shelf package ready for most anything you want to throw at it. Not just AWD, but front and rear LSDs, driver controlled center differential. On the engine side.... sprayable intercooler and a ridiculously solid engine block. The 6-speed trans can take ALOT of power before anythign but the clutch is a concern there. The brakes are up to it. The suspension is there.

The 135i? Not so much. It already suffers with a rear open diff. Traction will plague it until you address that. The engine and trans have questionable durability at expanded power level....BMW chose not to use that trans in their 335d "because it couldn't handle the torque"....

G35? Not tunable. Audi A4 2.0T? Probably the next best platform....but again, would need alot of work to get to the same place.

The EVO is handicapped by it's weight now, which is hard to remove in the new one.

I could go on.....but all I'm saying is that the STI is the "Z06" of the 35k arena.

Joe

"sprayable intercooler"

Yo, Joe! This went bye-bye in MY2008 with the GRB STI. The GDB (previous generation sedan) STi/STI had it.

"The EVO is handicapped by its weight now, which is hard to remove in the new one."

To some extent, yes. But it's still freakin' fast--faster than an STI in most conditions (save straight line and Top Gear's test track with the Stig driving). :o)

I think Josh's points are valid, but who buys an STi to go road tripping? Remember the STi is a rally car homologation, not a BMW highway cruiser. You can compare 0-60 times all day, but if you want to go flying around on dirt, the STi is the car you want. That's what it's made for, not to be the "ultimate performance machine." Saying the STi isn't comfortable on long distance road trips is like saying the sky is blue if you ask me.

When you say "various BMWs kept floating through my head," I think that's missing the point of the STi. People who are looking at STi's are people who know of the car's heritage, have been watching videos of them or playing them in video games their whole lives and dreaming about how fun it can be on the right roads, and also how awesome the community around them has become. Thanks to the efforts of this community, there is now open source tuning software for most subarus so you can buy a $99 cable and reflash your ECU as much as you want. Like previous posters have mentioned, 400hp is easy in this car. Tell me that doesn't sound like more fun than some used 3 series.

And let's not forget the practicality of AWD. For those of us in snowy places, AWD is a godsend.

If you want to say the BMW's are a better value than an STI, sure, that's a valid point, even with new STi's going for $28k now (search on Fatwallet). What I think you're missing though is that the STi appeals to a certain group of people who want a fast, light, awd rally car. The sad thing is even Subaru has lost sight of this and went for the mass appeal of a bigger, softer car with this redesign. It's too bad, but they seem to have realized their mistake and did a much better job with the 09 WRX.

I agree with a lot of the comments on this blog entry, however I actually think the STI is great on road trips. I cannot compare it to a BMW, however I think I have one of the ultimate road trip vehicles, the 2002 MDX...Now that is bomb on road trips.

So I decided to take my new STI on a recent trip. We jammed all our stuff, 2 kids, portable DVD player, water bottles at each corner, coloring books, nintendo DS, IPOD, portable cooler with food, radar detector and headed out.

On rough highway roads and concrete the tires are loud I will concede, but on smooth blacktop they were fine. I find the stereo pretty good when driven via IPOD/MP3 (the radio sound is 180 degrees different in the wrong way), the ride comfortable (ie soft suspension, room for everything and bucket seats) and a blast to drive.

No excuses here, I am really happy with it, despite the really cheap door plastic trim. As another counterpoint...read the post on the interior storage space on the BMW 135. Each passenger in the STI gets some decent personal space.

For the trip you took, there are a number of Subarus that could have floated through your head. Outback XT or 3.0R. Legacy GT.

BMWs also are nice cars. We see quite a few of them, every Summer.....