2008 Pontiac G8 GT: A Quick Question

A cool rear wheel drive V-8 sport sedan compared to a bland, soft, front wheel drive Camry/Accord knockoff? Seriously?!

Because it's simply a better car. Who cares where it was made or who makes it? Detroit is finally learning that lesson...

Putting aside the obvious:

1 - The corporate profits are in the U.S., which benefits GM stakeholders, most of which are also in the U.S. Buy a Hyundai built in the U.S., and the coporate profits go to Korea, which benefits Korean stakeholders, most of which are Korean.

2 - Engineering development is mostly done in the home country. Although much of the G8's development was done in Australia, the Zeta platform upon which it is built was developed worldwide, and its transmission and engine were mostly developed in the U.S. The Hyundai Sonata was almost entirely developed in Korea.

3 - Parts - more parts are sourced from the U.S. for the G8 than are sourced for the U.S. built Sonata.

The US car companies still employee more people in the US per car sold even when the cars are built outside the US than the imports built here. A quote from a Wall Street Journal article from a few years back:

"What's better for the American economy?" Mr. Doyle asks. A GM car "built in Mexico with 147,000 jobs back here in America or a Honda built in Alabama with 4,000 or 5,000 jobs in America?"

The full writeup can be read at:
http://soundopinions.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=4263

"Why is buying this Pontiac G8 built in Australia better than buying a Hyundai Sonata built in Alabama?"

It is a better buy if you are into driving but it is not when you are not. People should be smart with their money and buy cars that suit their needs and personal preference regardless where it was made or who made it.

It is your hard earned money so you deserve the best value for what you can get. Period.

I'd be more concerned about the 90% of my purchase price that goes to producing the car than the 10% that goes back to corporate HQ as profits.

1. Because a G8 is better vehicle then the Sonata.
2. Hyundai is infinity more crooked then GM.
3. Parts (Aluminum, Plastic, Glass, etc.)

For once, I have to say that there is no longer any reason to not buy an "American" car no matter where it has been built. Good thing there isn't a smokey burnout tariff, or the G8 would cost a fortune...

Since when did JRiz fall in love with the Sonata?

Of all the people that I thought would enjoy drivng a car like the G8 GT...

I was waiting for such a comment...

There was no implied personal position in my question, I was simply asking to hear others' thoughts.

(I could have just as easily chosen a Mercedes GL built in Alabama or an Acura TL built in Ohio).

"I'd be more concerned about the 90% of my purchase price that goes to producing the car than the 10% that goes back to corporate HQ as profits."

Does 90% of the price go the the place where it is assembled?

According to the same study I quoted above:
"the institute's study shows that Toyota in 2005 employed roughly three times more U.S. workers, on a basis of per car sold in the U.S., than Hyundai Motor Co. Each of the Big Three manufacturers in the same year employed roughly three times as many U.S. workers, on a per-car-sold basis, as Toyota"

That would mean that 9 times as many US workers were employeed to get the G8 to you than were employeed to get the Hyundai listed above to you.

The only thing you can buy that's truly American anymore is to get a Big Mac at the drive through.

louiswei, ditto. It's your money, spend it on whatever you want.

I second Stingray454.

At the same time, I'll grant that "American car" is a rather vague notion now, and you can view it many different ways. I think it is fine that the foreign manufacturers build some cars here, and I think it is fine Detroit builds some cars elsewhere. I think it is fine Americans buy both.

Things I do have a problem with:
1) Not acknowledging the closure of the quality and reliability gap, and the downward slide of Japanese quality and reliability.
2) Limiting the discussion to place of final assembly and not including parts origin and drivetrain assembly location.
3)Throwing tons of money at foreign manufacturers assembling products here in the US but not giving a dime to domestic manufacturers.

They only reason foreign cars are made in the US is to avoid the tariff. If domestics fail, the tariff will become irrelevant. The cars will then be made elsewhere by a company who distributes the profits elsewhere.

I do have issues with buying a car made elsewhere, but the above is a much greater concern.

In addition, I'd rather buy a car made in a country that likes us, rather than one that doesn't like us. Don't fool yourself. Japan only likes our money and nothing else.

"The only thing you can buy that's truly American anymore is to get a Big Mac at the drive through."

Doesn't the beef come from Argentina or some place like that?

"In addition, I'd rather buy a car made in a country that likes us."

Good point, Australia isn't trying to overtake us financially. Plus they have really cool accents.

Well, it certainly isn't better for the environment to have an American car shipped from Australia than it is to have a Korean car trucked from Alabama.

"They only reason foreign cars are made in the US is to avoid the tariff. If domestics fail, the tariff will become irrelevant. The cars will then be made elsewhere by a company who distributes the profits elsewhere."

Not true. The primary reason Honda built its first factory in the US was to hedge against Yen-Dollar fluctuations- they found it increasingly difficult to build products that were competitive and profitable when the Yen and Dollar kept fluctuating. By building the factory in the US, the car would be built in the same currency as it was sold, which would allow Honda (And other foreign makers) relative price stability.

As a bonus, they found that they could simply ship the cars back to the world when the dollar made it profitable to do so.

This is all according to a History International channel program on the history of Honda. I'm sure a decent google search would support it too.

"Global manufacturers. Global customers. The Big 3 couldn't make and sell one car if it had 100% US content. The Toyota Camry, made in the US, has about the highest US content. Is that US or not?

from the WSJ
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/images/MK-AG285A_FLAGW_20060510204812.gif "

"Familes today, more than ever, have to work with a budget

To not have a budget is risking more than just financial failure, as all we do and our children do, requires we have a budget to manage our money

If any purchase does not fit into your budget it is a disaster waiting to happen

An automobile payment is no different from the mortgage, if it does fit in the budget don't make the purchase

Where an automobile purchase is different is in experience.

IF a past experience is very bad, then don't repeat it in the future. It is not hard to agree that many people have had very bad experiences with American autos. To then ignore that these problems are real is sheer ignorance.

So, Buy the best car that fits in your budget and offers the best reliability. IF that happens to be a Toyota, Nissan or a Honda then that is being financially responsible. It is never an issue of patriotism."

-I saw these comments else where, and i agree with them. Its not about patriotism, these companies are global companies which need to be able to compete and they only way they can compete is through making better products.

http://info.detnews.com/redesign/forums/autostalk/lettersindex.cfm?forum=autostalk&topic=car_wars

that is a public poll from a biased paper.

The money goes out of the US if you buy a Sonata and to GM if you but the G8

"They only reason foreign cars are made in the US is to avoid the tariff. If domestics fail, the tariff will become irrelevant."

why?

you present this as a known fact but do nothing to support your conclusion. the u.s. government i know isn't real quick to do away with revenue producing tariffs and you don't give an actual reason why they would.

for example, vietnam has no domestic vehicle production, that i know off, and certainly no domestic vehicle brands. but they have very large tariffs on their vehicles to reduce the number of vehicles due to the already overcrowded city streets.

why wouldn't the u.s. leave tariffs in place if their were no big 3? foreign manufacturers would still want to sell cars in the u.s.!

"The money goes out of the US if you buy a Sonata and to GM if you but the G8"

So what? The money ain't coming to my pocket!

dragonflight: Are you willing to believe that the tariff doesn't play a major role in Honda deciding where the cars are built? I'm sure they'd be willing to risk some stability if it saved them a lot of money.

s197gt: The purpose of the tariff is to protect a domestic industry. If the domestic industry goes away, the tariff only hurts the American consumer. That's what people will cry anyway.

It won't happen overnight, but it will happen. Foreign manufacturers will migrate their factories overseas. They may migrate them to China rather than their homeland, but they will migrate them. It's a problem with domestic companies. A foreign company has even less incentive to produce in the US.

"IF a past experience is very bad, then don't repeat it in the future. It is not hard to agree that many people have had very bad experiences with American autos. To then ignore that these problems are real is sheer ignorance."

So one should ignore all current signs and instead rely solely on past trends? So following that logic, if we look at past trends then disco and polyester are obviously fashionable and everyone should be following those trends right now. Times change, and people who don't recognize that are the ignorant ones.

"So one should ignore all current signs and instead rely solely on past trends? So following that logic, if we look at past trends then disco and polyester are obviously fashionable and everyone should be following those trends right now. Times change, and people who don't recognize that are the ignorant ones."

I have, i am, and i will be ignorant with my money. GM doesn't pay me salary. GM doesn't clothe my kids, GM doesn't put a roof over my head. Why would i spend 21k on a Malibu just so I can spend another 5k each year trying to get it down the driveway. If GM wants to sell products make good ones. Banking on the concept of "patriotism" to sell products is dumb, we live in a global society and a world market. And as you have put it "times change, and people who dont recognize that are the ignorant ones." I agree but your application of this concept is flawed. There are hundreds of millions of consumers, there is only one GM. GM provides consumers with products they WANT. When GM fails to "recognize that times have changed" they then become the "ignorant ones".

If you believe GM builds fantastic cars, so be it. Until GM wants to put a warranty on all maintenance for the first 100k miles, parts and labor included, I'll continue to enjoy my Toyota.

The goal of any company is to make profit. Hyundai isn't building cars in Alabama so that the profit benefits America. No, some of the people in Alabama may profit, but the actual profits from producing the vehicle and selling it to dealers goes back to the S. Korean company, where it is taxed by its own government and benefits its own fat-cats and hopefully its own citizens. Likewise, the Australian car's profits go back to the US fat-cats and the company profits benefits our own citizens as-well through taxes and paper-pushing jobs.

That being said, I still wouldn't buy a g8 just because it should be made in America.

Pengwin: I fervently hope that your last comment was made with intentional irony. GM has far better warranty coverage than any of the big 3 Japanese marques. True, GM does not have a 100k bumper to bumper -- but neither does your precious Toyota.

And for those who say "The Toyota doesn't need it", I will say that their uncompetitive warranty did result in them losing me as a customer (their horrendously uninspiring products also played a role). I ended up with a GM car, but if I hadn't then the Sonata would've been high on my list. The Camry wouldn't have qualified.

Pengwin

Why dont you just move to japan and leave the people who actually care about the american auto industry alone and GM does make some good products.(cadillac CTS Motor Trends Car of the Year) (Chevy Malibu)(Buick Enclave) any of those terrible products ring a bell.

to misterfusion: nope, my toyota doesnt have a 100k bumper to bumper but my 03 corolla required only one part be replaced, intake manifold gasket. It required that replacement last month, the first repair, at 180k miles, other than that its been tires and brakes and a one-time tune-up at 100k. If you decided against a toyota thats perfectly fine, i agree, toyota products are fairly boring, which is why my second car is a 2.0T Jetta. I don't work for toyota or any car company for that matter -what you buy is up to you, your money, your decision.

to cargeek5: well, i think my ignorance statement earlier was just proved by you, GM thinks the same way. Telling me to move to japan...why cant we have a civilized argument, all i've said is if toyota makes a product better for you then thats the product you should buy. That said, the vehicles you have listed are, in fact, the better of GM vehicles. The CTS is an impressive car, yet its more expensive than a 3-series. A 328i, with about 30 less HP can hit 60 faster than a CTS (non-DI), do it in a better interior for less money. I'd also like to add that the 3 series was the 2006 car of the year by motor trend.

Oh, did the CTS win the "coveted" motor trend car of the year award? Well...odd...the camry won that too...

Malibu is a good car, i'll take an Accord, its better.

Enclave...yeah, its a good SUV (please, its not a crossover if its bigger than regular SUV's). I cant argue about this one, I have no interest in SUV/CUV/crossovers to research them.

When its your money do what you want with it, buy american, by japanese, by german, hell, buy british if you want. Here's what im advocating, spend your money on something you WANT, something you LIKE not on something you feel is "necessary to be "American"".

The big 3 are huge companies, they got to their size because of how they catered to the American consumer during the 80's, and 90's. More recently double digit profits have made them forget how to cater to consumers which has turned people away. Until the big 3 learn how to make products for the people they will be failed/failing businesses.

Waitwaitwaitwait... You're lecturing domestic car owners about reliability like you actually care about the subject -- yet you bought a VOLKSWAGEN?!?!

It is very possible that your VW will give you over 100,000 miles of trouble-free driving. You obviously have no problem believing this. So why would you not believe the same thing about a domestic marque (a scenario that seems far more likely in the real world)? BTW, I find VW's to be very well-packaged and desirable cars, but reliability and dealer-service horror stories have scared me off.

I've never had a major out-of-warranty repair on any of the 3 domestic cars that I've owned, and none of them ever had a mechanical breakdown that resulted in a stranding. Of course, the same can be said about the Mazda and Toyota that I owned, but I think you see my point.

ditto to misterfusion.

I'll gladly consider buying a new American car if:
1. It is RWD
2. It seats four comfortably
3. It weighs 3500 lbs. or less
4. It is less than 180" long
5. The engine makes at least 300 bhp
6. It is equipped with a six-speed manual
And-this is non negotiable-
7. It is NOT assembled at a UAW plant
Until then...

Deutschland über alles!

Auf Wiedersehen!

Roadburner, except for the size and weight issue the V6 Camaro would have been perfect for you. I'd love to see the next Gen Camaro about the size of a Mazda RX-8, but I feel most of my fellow enthusiasts would not agree with me.

Pengwin, I've only had my Cobalt for 2.5 years, so I'll admit I can't positively confirm its reliability, but so far I've only had to replace a battery and wheel lug, both due to incompetence/carelessness by the dealership that I most assuredly do not go to any longer. I won't argue the domestic companies have dealership problems. On the other hand, my grandma bought a Rav4 months after I bought my Cobalt and it has been in for repairs more time than I can count. The funny thing is, she sold her Saturn because it had one problem and she took that to confirm domestic cars are unreliable. So she bought her Toyota, and despite it's twice-monthly dealership visits, she is convinced it is the most reliable car you can find. I swear there is some brain-washing going on.

As for the rest of my family's cars, we owned a Saturn for a number of years, no problems. Owned a Suzuki and it nearly killed us multiple times with its magically disappearing brakes. Owned a Ford Explorer that gave us a couple problems but nothing too major (no fatal rollovers). Owned a Ford Escape for 7 years, just starting to show problems now (my mom's car, she wants to trade in for a Mazda3. Good call). Owned another Saturn for 7 years, no problems except a transmission that got a bit sticky recently, but fixed right up with a simple tune. Finally, a 1970 Cutlass, and it has held up pretty well for being 39 years old. So while recent experience shows Toyota to be not in the least bit reliable, we've had no experience to indicate modern American cars are unreliable at all.