2008 Mercedes-Benz C300 Sport: Big Wheels, No Thanks

Big wheels are retarded in Europe, too. Europeans are just as bad. Ever try driving a 1.8l Vectra with 18" wheels?

On the C-klasse the smallest wheels you can fit are 17" due to big brakes.

These wheels are beautiful, but I do agree -- American fascination with big wheels is over-the-top, and the automakers have bought into it. They want to keep some of that aftermarket money for themselves, and in this case, Mercedes doesn't seem to think anyone in a C-Class wants to get the true "Mercedes" experience anyway; they just want the badge.

It is a taxi. In much of Europe anyway. Most Americans aren't educated enough to know this, and Mercedes can charge $40k+ for a car that is the equivalent of a Taurus or Malibu back in their home country. Most Germans (and Europeans in general) view the C-class as an average, run of the mill family sedan. Not a premium luxury car. That perception is unique to America.

Mike, it's not just big wheels that are causing the problem. It's those ultra-low profile tires.

If you had a car with 13" wheels, and equipped with 35- or 40-section tires you'd still have those problems.

I'm with carguy. The low profile tires are not only more expensive, but they generally don't last as long. Maybe I'm getting old and grumpy but I'm over DUBS on trucks and the whole Chip Foose look on hot rods. I just want decent looking alloys that are easy to clean and more durable than cheesy plastic wheel covers. 16" is plenty for my car and 17" for the SUV. It doesn't help that cars are now designed so that they don't look right without huge wheels. Imagine 15" on a new Challenger or Camaro with those huge wheel wells and exaggerated fenders.

In this C300's case, 17" would be plenty for even the sport option, and 16" would be perfect for what it's really supposed to do - isolate the driver from the outside world.

sgude-

speaking as someone who works at a mercedes dealer... they're right...

Bob, I am very surprised you are saying that. 13" wheels with low profile tires would be far better because of their low weight. Reducing unsprung weight by a factor of 3 will work wonders for both handling and comfort.

I am not sure any 13" tires would have the proper load rating for a heavy car like this, though.

If the 18" offers better performance at corners then I am all for it. It looks better too. After owning a sports sedan with 18" wheels I don't think I'll get another car with smaller rims due to both the performance and styling reasons.

I was diappointed when I learned that this car had the 18" AMG wheel package, but still didn't have most of the features you would expect at this price point:

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/2008/02/2008-mercedes-c300-how-much-for-the-3-pointed-star.html#more

A friend of mine bought a C300 a little bit before Edmunds did that is nearly identical, cost almost exactly the same, but has the Premium package and the standard 17" wheels. It still rides well, looks good, and has most all of the trappings expected in a $40,000 car.

But hey, the AMG rims definitely are purty... :)

The 18" AMG wheel option comes with 225/40 front tires & the rears are either the same or might be 255/35. These are summer only tires.

The base 17" wheels are 225/45 front & 245/40 rear. These are all season tires.

So there isn't a huge difference in sidewall height between the 17" & 18" tires, but I'm sure you can feel it.

Considering the decent road conditions in California, I'm surprised to hear Edmunds complain about the ride. I wonder if this car had the base 17" with all season rubber if they would complain about the lack of grip?

I have a 2009 C300 Sport 4-matic. You cannot get the 18" AMG wheels on the 4-matic model. I briefly thought about not getting 4-matic so I could get the 18" AMG wheels because they look so much better than the base 17"s, but the horrible roads here in Michigan plus the frequent winter snow (6" coming tomorrow) nixed that idea. I have co-workers with non 4-matic C300's with the 18" AMG wheels & they will be skating tomorrow unless they put on winter tires.

It all comes down to personal preference. If you have decent roads & nice weather, then go for the 18" AMG rims. They look MUCH better than the base 17" rims. For $1000 (MSRP), the 18" AMG rim & summer tire option is a steal. On the aftermarket, the cheapest I've seen one 18" AMG wheel by itself is $700! Tack on 3 more wheels plus tires & you will spend thousands.

I agree completely. All these rappers, and football players put 26" Chrome Rims on a Deville and wonder why they cannot turn the wheel of the car, and why 60-0 Stopping distances take 300+ Feet.

What is also amazing is what Chrome has evolved from. It went from being on high-end cars, to Kia's and Hyundai's. Quite frankly, it does not look classy anymore. Chrome is the new plastic.

Part of the big wheel trend is the big car trend. 16" wheels can look silly on our tall bubble style cars since they would now be out of proportion.

Would re-calibrating the suspension work? Some slightly softer spring rates could potentially compensate for the shorter sidewall, but still potentially manage to keep the added lateral grip.

stingray454 I am afraid you are mistaken. The C-Class is no family sedan in Europe. You can get a base C180K or C220 CDI like most European taxis are for around 33,000 Euros (excluding tax), but that still puts it thousands of Euros more than a comparable Opel or Puegot family sedan. Taxi companies are willing to pay more for their cars because they have been known to run more than 500,000 kilometers before needing significant repairs.

Due to taxation and such Mercedes models actually cost more in Europe than they do here. In Germany a C180K with title and vehicle tax is comparable to a fully equipped C350 here. You can argue with me on this, but I lived in Germany for a year and am speaking from experience.

As for the whole rims thing, I agree. One of my biggest pet peaves is seeing some Benz with massive, gaudy chrome rims that do nothing to increase performance and just destroy ride quality.

"Considering the decent road conditions in California, I'm surprised to hear Edmunds complain about the ride."

Decent road conditions?!

You are kidding me right?

Louiswei, they don't necessarily offer better performance.

Wider tires do give more grip - but a 15"x8" tire will often be better than a 17"x8". Miata autocrossers really like 15"x8", or 13"x8" if they don't have big brakes. And low profile tires respond more quickly to input. There's no squishiness caused to the sidewall rolling over. That's a feel thing, it doesn't affect performance.

Being able to fit big brakes is the #1 reason to use bigger wheels but it only matters in track racing when smaller brakes would fade. Small brakes are powerful enough to lock up the wheels (which is the limiting factor in braking distances, not brake size) but they don't dissipate heat fast enough if you're braking hard every few seconds.

The disadvantages are weight and moment of inertia. The latter is higher when the weight of the wheel's rim is farther out, and it slows the car's acceleration. The weight of the wheel+tire is a greater burden on the suspension and basically slows it down. Ride get worse not only because of the smaller tire sidewall, but because of the weight that the springs are coping with. That ponderousness is also bad for transitional handling (turning back and forth).

They look good though. No argument there.

mercedesfan - you may speak from experience, but your post compared apples to oranges many times (i.e. why include the expensive vehicle taxes? That's not relevant).

I haven't lived in Germany, but I speak from experience as well, having visited there, as well as in Italy, Greece, and France, where I saw C-class Taxis in use. I also spoke with a German exchange student about them. He said with the exception of the S-Class and AMG models, Mercedes is not viewed as a premium brand there. And from what I saw, he's right.

The C-Classes I saw were stripped down versions of the C-Class the U.S. gets. No leather, no wood trim, many have manual transmissions, etc. The older ones even had crank windows! Mercedes purposely doesn't offer those lesser trim levels in the U.S. because they don't want to dilute the premium image the brand has here. Same reason they decided not to bring the A-Class over here.

stingray, I included the vehicle tax because you cannot purchase a vehicle in Europe without paying it, and it varies depending on the class of vehicle you are buying. It is completely unlike the US in that the tax can as much as double the price of your car. Therefore it is very relevant to the argument.

Secondly, the German-exchange student you spoke with must have been exceptionally wealthy because that is not the norm. In Germany specifically Mercedes-Benz and Porsche are seen as the ultimate in prestige brands while BMW and Audi are seen as the more attainable luxury brands. Likewise, every year the ADAC-AutoMarxX conduct a survey in Europe and every year Mercedes-Benz is ranked #1 in "image". This despite the fact that trucks, taxis, and emergency vehicles are almost exclusively Mercedes products.

I do agree, though, that the C is not viewed in the same way it is here. In Europe more appreciation is given to the letter of your Benz and less on the simple fact that it is a Benz.

Some cars can work with the bigger wheels... and some cannot. Personally I think the wheels on your Merc are beautiful. Some sporting cars need that shorter sidewall for better tire performance. For some it's just ridiculous. Imagine driving an early '70s muscle car with Goodyear Polyglas fiberglass belted tires that are 15 inches and carry a massive 75 series sidewall! I mean come on! Hummers carry a 70 series tire! I think the evolution to bigger wheels and slender sidewalls is a real step up from those old days.

Hey Louiswei - no I'm not kidding. I've visited California maybe 10 times & lived in San Diego for 1.5 years as a field service rep. I drove from San Diego to Sonoma County (north of San Francisco) on a regular basis. Put on like 60,000 miles in those 1.5 years in my company vehicle, so I know what the roads are like.

Have you ever been to Michigan? The roads are terrible. The surface of the moon is like glass in comparison.

I'm disappointed the Camaro SS can only be had with 20 inch wheels. Yeah it wouldn't look as good without them, but maybe cars should be designed to look good with smaller wheels. I don't like this trend.

"Until you drive cross-country, you'll never understand just how good a Mercedes-Benz really is. It goes down the road with a purpose, but all the rough edges have been smoothed down from long experience with the whole vehicle engineering thing, so everything works with the sure, carefully damped action of the turn-signal stalk on a Mercedes S-class sedan."

Bingo! Finally someone who understands what a Mercedes Benz is all about. Too many people here (and elsewhere) always dismiss these cars as overpriced hunks of German metal. In reality MB vehicles have much more substance than most offerings on the road.

To some its the badge, to me its the over engineering behind the badge. No, these cars aren't perfect but few manufacturers are willing to go as far when it comes to, refinement, craftsmanship and build quality. Mercedes vehicles have a defining trait that sets them apart from the pack thats clearly evident when you first get in and shut the door.

As far as the wheels are concerned, they are handsome and definitely complete the overall design of the C, unfortunately (according to the author) these "big" (18's aren't big anymore) wheels don't really have any positive attributes other than aesthetics. Ill take that white/tan C300 Sport 6MT, w/ the 18's thats at my local MB dealer.Very handsome car!

"Bob, I am very surprised you are saying that. 13" wheels with low profile tires would be far better because of their low weight. Reducing unsprung weight by a factor of 3 will work wonders for both handling and comfort.

I am not sure any 13" tires would have the proper load rating for a heavy car like this, though."

vvk

I probably should have said 15, 16 or 17 inch tires. The point I was making is that the ultra-low profile is more of a problem than 18" tires.

If the (18") tires had a 55-section tire, those problems wouldn't exist.

Bob, I know. And my point is that anything more than 16" will affect ride and handling simply because of the unsprung weight. Every time I have to carry my 17" summer wheels to winter storage I am reminded of this. They are sooo much heavier than the 16" winter wheels. I remember one of the auto magaines (MT or CD) doing the research to see if bigger wheels always mean better handling, etc. They found improvements up until 16". Everything beyond 16" had negative effect on handling, braking, etc. They found 17" slightly worse, 18" MUCH worse.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder why Mercedes simply did not tune the suspension to work better with the 18s and low-profile tires. The BMW 3-Series works very well with the ride/handling compromise on 18s and low-pro tires. Perhaps MB reserved its talent for the C63 suspension.

MERCEDESFAN & STINGRAY: I think you are looking at the same thing from different angles. You both are right in a way:

Some MB are used as taxicabs in Europe, even the E class and S class.
But there is way more of other brands used as cabs.
I think the principle there is the reliability of the powertrain, maybe? And yes, they are strip down versions of what we see in the U.S.
However, there are FAR MORE taxicabs from other more affordable brands.
When you go to Vegas you will see Lexus, especially the RX350 used as cabs. It doesn't mean that Lexus is an affordable brand.

MB is portrayed as a prestigious brand all over the world. And yes, it is more expensive in Germany than here because of the Euro exchange rate. Germans go to places like Spain to purchase their MB's because they are cheaper in Spain.