At last count, 31 of you faithful readers have smacked Edmunds.com Advice Editor, Phil Reed for choosing to drive the summer tire-shod Infiniti FX50 to snowy Colorado recently.
Today, with a fresh couple of inches of snow on the ground here in Detroit, I decided to play a little game I've tentatively named, "Exactly how wrong was Phil?"
The Point: To determine, in something approximating controlled conditions, exactly how much worse are summer performance tires than all-season tires when driving on snow.
The Players: I happen to have at my disposal our long-term Cadillac CTS, which I think I've mentioned on several occasions wears half-worn all-season Michelin tires that aren't particularly good in the snow. I also have in the office garage a brand-spanking new Infiniti G37 sedan, which carries Bridgestone Potenza RE050A summer performance tires with only about 1,000 miles on them. I know, I know, it's not apples to apples exactly. But it's the closest comparison that I could pull out of my, um, hat.
Cadillac CTS/Michelin all-season tire
Infiniti G37 sedan/Bridgestone summer tire
The Playing Field: The private roads around the Edmunds Detroit office in Southfield, MI (seen below from the14th floor).
The Procedure: Drive one lap around our monster office complex in each car while avoiding property and/or personal damage.
The Results: We took the Cadillac first, it being a known quantity. It successfully completed the roughly one-mile trip. It only really had trouble getting rolling from a stop. Its stability system intervened five times, but three of those were later in the loop where I was just goofing off, hanging the tail out for kicks. The Cadillac eventually made it up the final obstacle, the steep snow-covered ramp that goes from outside directly to the second floor of the parking garage.
The Infiniti rated a DNF. It simply could not manage the snowy ramp, no matter how much momentum we carried. After three attempts, under the watchful eye of building security, we relented and took an easier route into the garage. Theoretically given enough momentum we could have crested the ramp, but the utter lack of grip from the tires meant we couldn't possibly get enough speed in the run-up. And we're not sure we'd have wanted that much speed anyway. The Infiniti's noisy traction control system meted out tiny bits of wheel rotation such that with our foot to the floor we manage a top speed of 20 mph in about a 1/4-mile straight. Steering control was by wishful thinking. And the rear would slew sickeningly sideways near drainage grates, essentially trying to slide down the drain. Fail.
The conclusion: Let's just say, I'm very happy that I'm not driving a summer-tired sporty sport ute through Colorado right now. Possibly now, I will complain slightly less about the Cadillac's winter-weather performance. Possibly. --Daniel Pund, Senior Editor, Detroit
estreka says:
12:48 PM, 12/23/08
lol
You know people are shaking their heads at you when your coworkers are performing scientific research on why you are so wrong.
chavis10 says:
12:51 PM, 12/23/08
That sounded like fun. I'm jealous
dougtheeng says:
01:04 PM, 12/23/08
"That sounded like fun. I'm jealous"
Agreed. Fresh snowfall + parking lot = fun.
jasond52 says:
01:14 PM, 12/23/08
I learned to drive in the snow in a RWD Volvo. You'd think, being from Sweden, that the car would do great in the snow. It didn't. It would swap ends in a heartbeat.
RWD simply stinks in the snow compared to FWD.
cocarguydj says:
01:43 PM, 12/23/08
I am going to have to agree completely with Daniel on this one. Summer tires in the snow are just asking for trouble, no matter how many wheels are driving.
4 wheels x Zero Traction = Zero Traction
One also has to remember that the vast majority of cars have ony two steering tires and four tires for braking.
Some all season tires can do well with either front or all-wheel drive, but there is nothing quite like a proper set of snow tires. I would much rather drive my wife's snow tier equipped G8 in the snow that my all season tire equipped Impala. And I learned how to drive in Colorado snow in a 1979 Buick Park Avenue.
joefrompa says:
02:29 PM, 12/23/08
Jason - Just drive in reverse: Instant front wheel drive!
Or drive a Porsche 911, with ~70% of it's weight over the rear wheels.
Seriously people, in 90% tires. Those swedish volvos do fantastic in the winter....with the right set of tires.
Joe
tenfifteen says:
03:26 PM, 12/23/08
How wrong was he to take that FX50 to Col on summers? There are simply no words to aptly describe his error. But if the proverbial silver lining is this contest, then I may back off a bit. This sounded like fun.
stovt001 says:
04:10 PM, 12/23/08
I am now a more informed person thanks to Edmunds LT blogs.
roar02ram says:
05:03 PM, 12/23/08
Where is Phil, anyway? Didn't he leave with that FX a couple days ago? I mean, we were all worried for his safety, nevermind what stories of mayhem followed (although that'd be interesting to read, assuming no injuries or crashes...).
spinchild says:
06:43 PM, 12/23/08
I learned the hard way the reaction that summer tires have with slick roads. I've a set of 225/45/R18 Dunlop SP Sport 8090's on my RX-8. The summer tires took me around one corner just fine, but as soon as I was pointed down a hill, they were completely useless. I swapped ends, ended up in the wrong lane, and couldn't budge. Luckily, I was able (with some helping hands) to reverse into a parking lot and leave her parked away from any traffic.
Just my luck, the one winter I bring my car to Portland, the city gets completely snowed in, and NONE of the roads are being plowed.
jetpilot317 says:
08:20 PM, 12/23/08
You've got to watch the salt too... my solstice almost went sideways twice under pretty easy acceleration just because of the salted roads. Stabilitrak saved me both times.
MS3lvr92 says:
11:32 PM, 12/23/08
Temperature is what really kills tire performance. Summer tires are pliable until you hit about freezing point. All seasons are good until a bit under freezing. And snow shoes are good until at least -40 degrees. All the tires will handle gliding across and driving around in light snow, well maybe not so well on summers, but they will track across it at speed. It's when you throw extreme temperatures into the mix is when things go horribly wrong. My Mazdaspeed 3 with OEM Bridgestone Potenza RE050As will ride across paved roads and through very, very, very light snowed side streets without any complaint at 32+ degrees out. But... when the temperature takes a nosedive and it's freezing point, the car struggles to put any decent amount of power down in wet, salted or unsalted pavement. On those days I just take the Nissan Quest or Mazda 6 we have.
MS3lvr92 says:
11:32 PM, 12/23/08
sorry I meant all seasons are good until a bit under 0 degrees... my bad
bimmerjay says:
12:01 PM, 12/25/08
I'm in Detroit this week and to possibly shut my fat mouth from bitching about the CTS (ok, mainly the styling) my GM buddy is putting me in a CTS DI for the week. Should be interesting to compare with Edmunds' experience in this delightful weather. Fingers crossed for a trip to the Milford proving grounds this weekend.
persecuted says:
08:15 AM, 01/19/09
No matter what make we drive, the tire technology remains the same. In case of luxury cars, dealing with tires will cost you a fortune. For that reason, to move from point A to B (commuting), I use a Toyota Corolla and my son a Honda Civic.
Fist we upgraded Honda, with a set of 16 Inch wheels, and 205/45R16 Falken ZX performance tires. They are not the best, but he is very happy for the price, and handling in dry, wet and rain. He paid 450$ for the set of 4 wheels, with mounted and balanced tires, from the Discount Tire of America. Of course the set comes with center bore rings.
Because we live in the Snow Belt area, he bought a set of 4 steel rims with winter tires mounted and balanced, on sale for $160.
I bought only 4 Falken ZX tires, and mounted on the existing rims. Things were good till, one day I was surprised driving in a snow blizzard. As soon as I hit the free way, realized that I had no control on my car. To be able to steer I had to slow down to 15 – 20 mph, messing up with the traffic, and in an uphill part of the freeway, the tires started spinning and I barely went through. The Fallen ZX are good in dry, wet and rain, but horrible in snow. Next day I ordered 4 steel rims with winter tires, mounted and balanced, for $426. They were not on sale with discount price. The rest of the winter didn’t bother me. The winter tires remain Pliable up to 0 F degree, while all seasons give up at 20 F degree.
Keep in mind that below 0 F degrees, no matter what car you drive, or tires you have, makes no difference. The tire Friction coefficient changes from Cf=1 to Cf almost 0, and you have two options. Drive very slowly, or don’t go.