Last year we wanted to try out living with a diesel-powered car. Sadly, none were sold here in California, so we bought a used 2005 Jetta TDI instead. Since then, it's held a warm place in our collective hearts with its torquey engine, 40+ mpg fuel economy, fun handling and classic turn-of-the-century German styling. But it was dirty. Every time you lay into the throttle, it deposits a load of soot like a crop duster upon the pavement below.
After a hiatus, the Jetta TDI is back; complete with clean diesel technology that allows it to be sold in all 50 states and hopefully nixes the crop dusting. Plus, it doesn't require that urea scrubbing stuff Mercedes does. We just had to add a 2009 Jetta TDI to our fleet, so we did. We threw in the DSG automanual to try that out too.
This is the first time we've had two vehicles of the same nameplate in the long-term fleet at the same time, but being from two generations, it should be interesting to see the comparisons between old and new.
Read the Full Introduction to our long-term 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI
James Riswick, Automotive Editor @ 1,356 miles
dougtheeng says:
09:39 AM, 10/10/08
Jriz - i know not many people comment on your carspace blog, but I wanted to say you should definitely keep it up. I don't comment because I don't really use carspace other then to read your blog.
in other news, Jetta Diesel sweet! now if they could just get rid of the ugly corolla styling...
adavis2493 says:
09:46 AM, 10/10/08
I am really looking forward to this. Thankfully, it may just be a somewhat stylish alternative to a Prius or Civic Hybrid.
edubya says:
09:48 AM, 10/10/08
The Corolla-esque styling isn't exciting, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's ugly.
In other news, I'm seriously considering adding a SportWagen TDI to my personal fleet next year. Needless to say, I'm thrilled that you added the sedan version to yours.
dragonflight says:
10:31 AM, 10/10/08
Technically speaking, weren't the Ford GT and Edge in the garage at the same time? Or is the GT excluded because Karl owns it?
dougtheeng says:
10:41 AM, 10/10/08
dragonflight: I think by name plate he means that they have 2 Jettas, as opposed to 2 VW products. Right now they have three BMWs, for example.
sabastian says:
10:43 AM, 10/10/08
dragon, I think by "nameplate" he means model. There have been many instances of multiple cars from the same make in LT fleet.
rocklah says:
10:44 AM, 10/10/08
Hmmm 3 twin clutch gear boxes in the fleet. I wonder if any comparisons can be made keeping in the mind the drastic differences between the cars they are mated to.
orangutan says:
10:45 AM, 10/10/08
It was a good purchase and I look forward to how it compares to your 05 Jetta, but I wonder if it might have been more useful in general to purchase the Sportwagen instead of the sedan.
gharry says:
10:51 AM, 10/10/08
Fantastic purchase, if for no other reason than I have been very interested in this exact combination - TDI + DSG as a potential next car. I'm looking forward to hearing about it. I agree with rocklah - it'd be great to read comments about how well the twin clutch boxes do in each vehicle.
opfreakx says:
11:23 AM, 10/10/08
I love your average MPG already ~31mpg.
should put some of those diesel fanbois in their place.
seems like the hype is overblown.
jriz says:
11:30 AM, 10/10/08
That current mpg is based on very limited driving. We actually rushed this LT introduction so there were fewer tanks than normal to average from. I'd imagine it would improve when we stretch its legs a bit.
"I wonder if it might have been more useful in general to purchase the Sportwagen instead of the sedan."
I agree.
stingray454 says:
11:57 AM, 10/10/08
"By opfreakx on October 10, 2008 11:23 AM
I love your average MPG already ~31mpg.
should put some of those diesel fanbois in their place.
seems like the hype is overblown."
It's a bit premature to be making those kinds of statements, don't you think?
Look at the mileage on their '05 TDI. The numbers speak for themselves, and puts pundits like you in their place.
redliner says:
12:20 PM, 10/10/08
tdi power!
cah11705 says:
12:29 PM, 10/10/08
@rocklah
There are 4 i believe,
gt-r
evo
r8
and this
anything im forgetting?
but that would b a good comparison
brian55 says:
12:38 PM, 10/10/08
I believe the Audi R8 has the r-tronic trans & not the DSG....
orangutan says:
12:56 PM, 10/10/08
Correct, the R8 has a single-clutch transmission, not dual.
jriz: What was the reasoning behind purchasing another sedan instead of the Sportwagen? How many wagons have been involved in the long-term fleet?
brian55 says:
01:06 PM, 10/10/08
To be accurate, the Jetta was not purchased...
The manufacturer provided Edmunds this vehicle for the purposes of evaluation.
orangutan says:
01:23 PM, 10/10/08
Bah, not another one of those. :(
firstwagon says:
07:28 PM, 10/10/08
So are you going to do a comparison test"
New vs old?
2005 vs 2009?
Clean vs dirty?
Good looks vs bland?
Manual vs manual-matic?
You've got both cars on hand, great chance to see how much of an improvement it really is.
cwc1 says:
08:34 PM, 10/10/08
Don't accept the premise that an older diesel from just a few years ago is "dirty". That's a bunch of misinformed hype. Diesel is lower in emissions than gasoline in all but two components - NOx and particulates. Thus diesels used to get a break because that was balanced out by the lower emissions elsewhere. And on a per mile basis, some diesels emit less, since they use less fuel.
Ironically, some of the very things that make diesel engines efficient, such as high compression and lean fuel ratios, tend to produce more NOx. But it is in these areas where significant and costly efforts have been made on bringing the amounts further down, since under the newer emissions standards, gasoline and diesel both have to meet the same levels across the board.
So, don't get me wrong. I'm all for cleaner diesel, but realize there is a cost for all that technology to achieve it. And older diesel is not "dirty" -- unless it's from 30 years ago, or in many of the big rigs that do smoke a whole bunch. Even many of the diesel pick ups tend to have some pretty serious fumes. But not recent passenger car diesels.
jahfakin says:
08:40 PM, 10/10/08
quite a few members on tdiclub.com have this new TDi Jetta (and JSW).....it appears the DSG doesn't do the TDi engine justice....a lot is sacrificed for convenience. In the 6sp manual, getting 40-50mpg is easy. While the DSG version can be lower. But we'll see how the Edmunds crew do. This is one car that I'm really excited to read about.
matt_a says:
09:10 AM, 10/11/08
"I love your average MPG already ~31mpg.
should put some of those diesel fanbois in their place.
seems like the hype is overblown."
Do you have something against diesels??
Just remember not to drive with a huge lead foot, and your mileage will improve a bunch. Also, remember not to put Biodiesel in it, as VW only supports up to B5 in the tank. All Biodiesel is not created equal, and can hurt the fuel system.
As soon as it hits, I'm going to add a Rabbit TDI and sell my Golf TDI. That Golf has been the best car I've ever owned, and I'm replacing it with the exact same thing. My last tank I got 44mpg, and this tank, I went 670 miles before my low fuel light came on!
orangutan says:
10:25 AM, 10/11/08
jahfakin: If you take a look at VW's site you can see the gear ratios for each transmission paired to the TDI. The six-speed manual has taller gearing across the board than the DSG, which would explain its better mileage. Accordingly, the DSG should provide slightly better acceleration.
jahfakin says:
02:20 PM, 10/11/08
orangutan,
I didn't really look at the gear ratio on the site....go deal bringing that to my attention.
As for the TDi thing....I'm still not totally convinced about getting the new model. But I'm keeping my options open. My old VW NB TDi was a good car, not great, but good. It needed repairs more often than I like. and if you are not up to doing the repairs yourself...the costs can add up. I did my own oil changes using the Pella Vacuum Oil Extractor, and that saved me a lot of $$. But the higher cost of diesel and the higher than average repair jobs and costs kinda off set the fuel savings one would get from buying a cheaper but way more reliable Honda/Toyota gas car.
My mom's Corolla went over 100K miles needing only oil changes, tires and brakes.
opfreakx says:
09:36 PM, 10/11/08
matt_a: no i have nothing against diesels. I have something against TDI fanbois. of which there are many. Most of whom belive that god/goverment, and everyone else on the planet is working against them, because THEIR TDI is getting 1,000,000 mpg, and anyone claiming anything else is just plan wrong. Then go off on long rants how diesel will save the earth, forgetting the thing is made from the same oil
Then I look at gas prices today:
Regular: 2.99
Diesel: 3.89.
30% higher. Yes the margin was smaller when gas was more. But in the USA Diesel is almost always more.
firstwagon says:
10:06 AM, 10/12/08
"Most of whom belive that god/goverment, and everyone else on the planet is working against them, "
Not on the whole planet, just in the US.
Everywhere else diesels are common amd diesel fuel is cheaper then gas (because it cost less to make).
For some reason in the states...
- Diesel has a huge mark up, taxes or oil companies I don't know which .
- emmision standards are set up to stop diesel cars while the rest of the world knows diesel and gas pollute about the same, just different.
- EPA testing paramenters are slanted againest the diesel engines. Private lab testing of the new TDI got 30% better numbers then the EPA did.
orangutan says:
06:14 PM, 10/12/08
How on Earth would the EPA tests "be slanted against diesels"?
stingray454 says:
08:59 AM, 10/13/08
"Diesel: 3.89.
30% higher. Yes the margin was smaller when gas was more. But in the USA Diesel is almost always more. "
For the last 4 years it has been, true. But before that, diesel was always cheaper than gas. It may return that way, as I still think there's a conspiracy somewhere in the U.S. causing the abnormally high diesel prices. Diesel is cheaper than gas in Western Canada, and most of the rest of the world actually.
matt_a says:
04:02 PM, 10/13/08
opfreakx: you must be a hybrid fanboi. Thanks for exaggerating about how you hate diesels. I actually like ANY technology which reduces our reliance on foreign oil, hybrid, diesel, electric, walking, whatever. I just happen to know that diesels are much much better for highway driving than hybrids, while hybrids are slightly better than diesels in the city. Buy the one that will benefit you more, and stop slamming either one. I have 173K miles on my Golf, and aside from a Mass Airflow Sensor, some work on the power windows, and a wheel bearing, the car has been flawless. I couldn't be happier with it. As soon as there is a Rabbit TDI, I'm there.
I don't know where you live, but diesel is NOT 30% more here. more like 10-15% higher. It's only been a lot higher since the middle of last year. I've been driving diesel VWs for 20 years, and have never noticed until recently that diesel was more. Usually, diesel costs the same as regular during the summer months and the same as premium during the winter months. It's strange that it got so far out of whack during the last oil crunch.
And yes, the EPA has stated that their tests actually go against diesels by as much as 18%. 29/40 is way off as to how this new TDI can do. They actually say that the TDI I own gets 36/45. The old epa rules put it at 42/49. There is absolutely no way to get under 40mpg in that car. I've tried, and even in 3 feet of snow, I haven't been able to accomplish that. They are definitely testing them incorrectly.
matt_a says:
04:04 PM, 10/13/08
oh, and one more thing...
My last tank in the Golf:
694 miles on 15.1 gallons. That's a mix of city/highway. Yes, I like my TDI.
firstwagon says:
05:45 PM, 10/13/08
"How on Earth would the EPA tests "be slanted against diesels"?"
Easy. The EPA tests are lab tests. The most important factor in the results of lab tests are the parameters you set for the test. In other words you can slant the results to the outcome you want by choosing how the test is run.
Diesels (and hybrids) for example are extremely good at using minimal fuel when lightly loaded. By setting a more aggresive "driving" test routine, the EPA created a situation where diesels (and hybrids) results would drop in a greater amount then more convention drivetrains.
Whether it was done on purpose to protect domestic auto makers or under the table for certain individuals to receive large cash donations from the automakers or just a mistake by someone who doesn't know their job is anyones guess.
cwc1 says:
07:45 PM, 10/14/08
I sure don't believe in conspiracy theories -- the one above is highly unlikely.
ddprobert says:
03:52 PM, 10/24/08
I bought my 2009 TDI a couple weeks ago. So far avg 30 in the city, 51 going from Vegas to California up and down those hills.
51 MPG .. yeah.. eat your heart out Prius!
ddprobert says:
03:54 PM, 10/24/08
Diesel in Vegas today is 3.29/gallon