2008 Subaru Impreza WRX STI: Really Cold Tire Pressure

Is the whole staff up there with you? This blog is becoming quieter than a school library!

misterfusion, the entire editorial department went to school today -- driving school. The rest of us are here slaving away.

FAST LANE Driving School:
http://www.raceschool.com/

I am interested in the cold weather/snow performance of the tires. All the sites I have been reading say you HAVE to buy all season tires for the winter.

I am really contemplating it, but we have gotten fairly not so snowy winters lately...wondering about how to manage 2 or 3 snow days and not buying new tires.

It' suicidal to run the summer tires in the winter. It's not only snow that affects them but temperature, also. When it dips below 40, the compound gets hard and can't grab traction. If you have an STI with summer tires, you really need a set of snow tires to avoid life in the ditch.

I live in Florida, so I don't know much about snow tires, but do all-season tires work on the STI/in the snow?

carfreak8394

All season tires are tires that perform ok in most cases.

But then dont preform good in any. Summer tires are great for temperatures over ~45degrees. below that, the rubber gets very hard, the subbie is able to get around this by having awd and traction control. If it was 2wd drive it wouldn't want to move. and the stop distance is also reduced.

Winter tires work under ~45degrees, and in fact if you want them to last, they should only be used when the temprature is going to be under 45, because above it the rubber will get even softer and they'll wear very fast. Pure winter tires also dont perform very well on very dry payment, they tend to squirm, are nosie, and dont have great road grip. However a snow pack, would have very little effect on them, and they'll handle almost like if you were driving on dry pavement.

Interesting to read how the tires performed in the snow. The stock tires on my 07 Forester were absolutely HORRIBLE. I replaced them with Goodrich Traction T/A's (which I had on 2 previous cars) less than a month after I bought the car.

It snowed a couple of days after I bought it in Feb 07 and the car slid around like it was on slicks. For all season tires they just plain sucked.

See, that's what has me worried about the 2009 WRX-it only comes with summer tires. While this is great in the summer, it doesn't make much sense in the winter when I'd have to buy new winter tires. I'd then have to switch from winter to summer and back again every year. You'd think this would be an option.

Wow....this blog entry is foolish. Did you attempt to brake or turn on that snow pack? Because if you did, you'd see why summer tires on snow are so dangerous.

With almost any tire on an AWD car, you can gain traction on snow (note, this doesn't include ice which is a whole different ballgame). This isn't the problem. It's when you need to brake or turn...in those instances, the car's weight works against it (instead of working for it, when you need to accelerate).

Summer tires on dry roads at freezing temperatures are not a good idea. Summer tires on wet, snowy, and or icy roads in freezing temperatures is stupid.

Many countries have outlawed running summer tires during the winter because they are THAT dangerous.

Comprehende?

Joe

Chill, Joe.

I wasn't suggesting driving on a snow pack in an STI with summer tires was a smart idea, or that someone should not buy all-season or winter tires for driving in snow.

Rather, I found myself in the situation and made the best of it. All steering and braking inputs on the snow pack were made gingerly, because I knew they had to be. The snow on the 395 was not packed, and the car did fine through high-speed turns.

In addition, the not so glamorous truth is that I did some very uninteresting driving in the STI on both 395 and the snow-packed trail.

Foolish as I may be, I certainly *was* worried about the limitations of the summer tires. Both the amount of snow and the sub-freezing temperatures were unseasonably harsh for mid-October, and I hadn't anticipated these conditions going into the trip.

But once we were in the Sierras, driving in the snow, panic wasn't really an option. So, I went as slow as I needed to keep the car within my control at all times. And I didn't drive at night when temps dropped to single digits. -ER

Hey Erin,

Sorry (and by the way, nice pun with the usage of "Chill" when applying to this topic)...your blog entry was actually informative on the tire pressure issue.

But c'mon, you stated, "By the way, the STI's 245/40R18 Dunlop summer tires were not the liability I'd expected on snow-slick roads. At reduced (but hardly slowpoke) speeds, the STI tracked fine through the snow. It even managed a few miles on this unmaintained, snow-packed road without any truly hairy moments."

Your only qualification was that better suited tires would "add peace of mind". You didn't specify you were driving gingerly.

Every year, tons of performance-bent car buyers drive their summer-tire equipped cars in snowy conditions and are surprised when they endanger their lives. They blame the tires or the car. Just look at any Subaru Legacy Spec.B. owners forum....tons of owners will claim that the car is terrible in the snow and "So much for Subaru and AWD!".

Your post bothers me because it seems to indicate that you weren't driving too gingerly and did just fine.

I understand that's what happened....but exhibiting that information to the online community is like telling unknowledgeable teenage drivers that the car still brakes and handles just fine at high speeds.

Why tempt fate with a drop of knowledge where a stern warning or longer lecture is much needed?

Joe

Point taken, Joe. Next time I'll try to be clearer.

"But once we were in the Sierras, driving in the snow, panic wasn't really an option. "

This is a great statement for anyone driving in inclement weather (or facing many hurdles in life). Once you are in the situation, panic doesn't help. Locking up doesn't help. Carefully planning out your actions does....and carefully visualizing your actions when your car starts to slide helps too.

My example is from a few years ago with a 95 volvo 850 turbo on a slick back road. I wasn't prepared for the small mudslide around the corner I was taking faster than I should have been. When I hit the mud/leaves, I started sliding diagonally. I slammed on the brakes from instinct....resulting in the car entering a spin before slamming into a fallen tree (God Bless Volvo, I drove it home and only had to replace the evaporative canister....not including the body and bent frame damage). If I had better instincts, as gained through practice and visualization, I would've controlled the slide and probably wound up driving on after finishing the slide into the other lane.

Joe

P.s. Erin, I entered a slight downhill right turn with a 3500 pound car on something like summer tires....even at 5-15mph, I did a 360 instead of actually entering the turn. I then went up the hill (straight) with the car at a 45 degree angle because it wouldn't go up any other way. I guess I've had my share of pushing my luck with tires and inclement weather...

[Just updated the post to clarify a couple things about how the STI was driven. -ER]

"(Which is not at all to say that I would encourage a sane person to drive an STI with summer tires down a snow-packed road...)"

Thanks. I'm sated.

By the way, due to your post I'll make sure the Legacy GT tires are pumped up to ~38-40 PSI cold (instead of 35-36) just to make sure the light doesn't come on. I don't want my wife calling me on her way into work freaking out because the low pressure light came on.

Save that light for when it's needed :)

Joe

So all the cute banter back and forth...If I read the facts correctly...The tires were manageable, you can get through, need to go slow, but not recommended.

I have read conflicting performance on the Dunlop SP600's in the cold and snow. I assume they are newer and/or special for subaru so they don't come up at all the sites.

For people that get 1 snow storm a winter, I am not sure I personally would recommend putting out $1000+ for tires and possibly rims too. Waiting 2 hours until the roads are plowed and sanded is probably an acceptable option in my opinion.

Let me preface this with the fact that I plan on getting all season tires/rims this fall unless this economic crisis prevents it...

I appreciate the passion about getting the proper tires...However driving techniques should be reviewed too. Braking and turning while in a skid really doesn't work...it is much better with ABS in recent years, however I can remember taking corners faster than I would have liked (with good all season tires) because once committed, you cannot jam on the brakes through a corner, so you pump them, keep the car under control and steer your way out...sometimes even with more gas being applied.

I grew up driving in the snow on the east coast and have been sideways many times...I agree good tires is very important...but even if I buy them and then don't get them on because we have a super warm winter (like we would ever see 70 degrees in January in New England) and then get caught once with a snowstorm, you deal with it. Reaction, driving technique, experience and going slow are equally important.

I submit, my STI with these Dunlops (assuming good tread depth) is much better anyday than a Chevy Chevette with stock tires...and I am still here to write about it.

Thanks for the info.

over the years, I've seen many STi/WRXs stuck in the snow. I guess they think that having AWD will give them superior traction in the snow, even with summer tires.

People living in the NYC and Philly can get by with all season...but just barely. having summer tires on any car is just asking for trouble....big trouble. further north, you better have snow tires.

Snow tires can last 3+ seasons, so the cost is not that bad. too bad not enough people use them in my region. they should go on around thanksgiving and come off just before easter.

Don't get me ranting about the SUVs you see speeding down the highway in a snow storm. i guess they think that 4x4 makes them invincible to snow and ice.....but what happens when you try to stop with all that weight???

sbcooke,

i think your rationalizing is flawed. if you live in New England, you can never tell what the upcoming winter is going to be like. A snow storm can come at at time during the winter...i've seen it, it can be damn scary being out there on those roads. it's best to stay off the roads when that happens, but that's not always the case. why take the chance, because you are cheap? get some snow tires and play it safe.

Yes it's true that reaction, driving technique, experience and going slow are equally important. But man, there are times when no matter how good of a driver you are, if you don't have the right gear, nothing is going to save you.

"Better to have and not need, than to need, and not have"

This posting reminded me of the scariest situation I've ever had driving when I was on Hwy 280 here in the Bay Area in the winter time and the temperature dropped rapidly to the mid-30s as I was driving through the hills near Hwy 92. My RX-8 with summer rubber just decided to slide all over the place while on cruise control just driving in a reasonably straight line. Completely uncontrollable until I was at a much lower speed.

Luckily I kept my head and instincts and coasted with very little steering or brake input (and it was late at night so no one on the roads).

I don't think the weather here in the Bay Area warrants changing even to all-seasons, but my experience leads me to think I'd never knowingly drive anywhere planned with summer tires when there's a chance of cold temperatures.

Oh and I want to see the pics when you guys get back to SoCal of your black STI with no clearbra on the back fenders. Should be plenty of good sandblasting action on the rear doors/fenders from that plow's rock salt to keep us entertained!

"Waiting 2 hours until the roads are plowed and sanded is probably an acceptable option in my opinion."

Sbcooke - To misterscoopman's point, summer rubber in winter on dry roads (let alone roads that are mixed with slush, water, ice, snow, salt, and sand) is dangerous when it's cold out. The tires can't grip anymore....even on the dry stuff. A great test for tirerack would be to show dry braking on a 25 degree surface on summer tires, all-season tires, and winter tires. I'm willing to bet the all-seasons would come out the best.

I, personally, agree that for people (like me) who only get maybe a few snow storms a season of questionable precipitation probably don't need a dedicated set of snows for a FWD or AWD vehicle.

That being said, I think an all-season with a heavy winter bent (i.e. Nokian WR or Continental Contiextreme Contacts) is a much better choice to be running during that time than summer rubber.

I think the question comes down to: Are you someone who wants the best of your car's performance during all seasons and do you live in an area where there are freezing temperatures. If so, you probably need 2 sets of rubber.

If you are ok sacrificing some performance in the summer and in the snow and ice, for the sake of one set of tires, then a good all-season will do you just fine. I think 95% of people fall into this second category.

Just for clarity sake though, I consider people who drive on snow tires in the summer to be idiots too :)

Joe

It'll be interesting to see if the '09 Forester has the same issues with tire pressure once winter arrives for its drivers!

As for winter-rated tires that can handle summer, Nokian and (possibly) Yokohama make several (former has WRG2 and WR series) However, handling purists will probably find them "floaty", especially in hard charging STI's.

...and by the way, if you do a search on Youtube for "Portland Snow Driving", you'll find videos of an entire exit ramp as a snow covered parking lot, and all sorts of sliding/drifting cars, including a Subaru Outback, crashing into other cars.
One Portland iced hill I drove on last year became a parking lot for 12 cars, mine included. I had a FWD car and GY Tripletreads which proved useless. This year it's AWD, Nokian winter-rated tires, AutoSocks, and very careful driving. :-)