2008 Pontiac G8 GT: Is It Really Better Than the Accord?

I hope Honda is reading this!

Better for what? Better for whom?

Does more power and better traction translate into "better" for everyone?

What about all the other factors? I would say that even a 200k mile Geo Metro can be better for some people than the G8.

For example, in G8 vs. Accord: weight, fuel consumption, SMALLER wheels (cheaper tires, smoother ride), gentler look, better interior, better seats, available 4 cylinder engine, available manual gearbox, better (by far) resale value, better reliability and, perhaps, more solid company/dealer network (if GM does file for C11.)

No thanks on G8 as daily driver. I've had my stints in many RWD cars; Once the weather gets bad, it's spin-o-matic (w/ LSD, ATC or whatever).

As a drift toy, though, the G8 sounds like fun.

"Does more power and better traction translate into "better" for everyone?"

are you kidding?

The G8 is better for driving enthusaists. The Accord is better for geriatrics.

nice photo of the interior, it looks very Audi-esque!

Not to excuse the wheel diameter but is it possibly a cultural difference? I know it is more common for drivers to use the 5 o'clock in some countries- or the lower half of the wheel. In that instance, a larger wheel would be advantageous.

I think there was even an article in straightline about this while testing the new A4 in Germany.

In any case, I do agree a smaller wheel would be more ergonomic for the USA crowd.

If one doesn't mind the mileage and price, I'd universally recommend the G8 to anyone over an Accord.

Honda Accord $27,175*, 271 hp, 19/29 MPG
Pontiac G8 $26,595*, 256 hp, 17/25 MPG. ($-1,000 rebate)
Mazda Mazda6 $24,800*, 272 hp, 17/25 MPG
*minimum price of V6 models.

Mazda6 or G8... Tough call. The Mazda6 interior looks classier.

If only it had a manual. I have to say (sadly) that between the G8 and the Accord, my current choice would be a V6 Accord Coupe 6MT.

I'm in total agreement about the steering wheel comparison. The Honda's is one of my favorites, while the G8's is indeed too big and awkwardly shaped.

GM seems to use really large-diameter steering wheels. The last STS I drove made me feel like I was driving a Greyhound bus.

Foreign car bias! Why do the writers at Edmunds always needlessly bash foreign cars!? Stop picking on the poor Accord.

;)

yeah, that interior is identical to my GTI. the gauge cluster, the lighting dial on the dash, the audio system, HVAC controls, the pedals, the center console, the cluster of buttons fore of the shifter... did they copy the 3 flash turn signal tap of german cars, too?

Too big for what? The car is 196" long and weighs almost 4k pounds. Large cars and trucks typically have larger steering wheels.

Who drives with their hands at 9 and 3? I surely don't. I actually dont like 3 spoke wheels (GM has them on a ton of vehicles trying to copy the imports) because I like to rest my hand at the bottom of the wheel. seems like that may be possible with the G8.

"If only it had a manual. I have to say (sadly) that between the G8 and the Accord, my current choice would be a V6 Accord Coupe 6MT."

G8 is sedan only and the Accord V6 sedan doesnt have a stick either. The GXP will have a stick though. Large sedans with manual transmissions are increasingly rare.

huyracing - yes, the G8 does have 3 flash turn signal tap

Even though the Accord EX-L V6 and G8 GT are in the same price range its an OBVIOUS apples to oranges comparison.

Of course the G8 is much more appealing to the enthusiastic driver with high performance in mind as it was designed to do just that. As far as sheer athleticism and speed are concerned the G8 would easily outperform all the "family sedans" in this price range, not just the Accord.

1st it was the strange and useless blog concerning the Auras mesh sunroof wind deflector. Then it was the lack of XM traffic in the EX-L/navi Accord ("its a big deal!"). Now the FWD V6 Accord family sedan is supposed to (somehow) defend itself against a totally different type of car, a RWD V8 powered dedicated sport sedan with a similar price.

hondacura4 has a valid point, these two cars aren't really going to be cross shopped much. It is interesting to note though that when my wife and I were shopping for a new car for her(we ended up with a G8 GT) we did initially take a look at pretty much every mid-size and large sedan on the market including the Accord. My wife wanted a care that she could easily fit our son's car seat in the back of that was more fun to drive than the 2002 Impala that she had at the time. While shopping there were a couple of things that eliminated the Accord from contention. Those major items were value (content vs. price) and styling. Neither of us cared for the styling, and by the time you got the V6 and any other sort of options the price of the Accord easily reached the $30k mark. I suppose if you were looking for a docile commuter car that gets reasonably good fuel mileage the Accord would be a good choice although I think that previous generations served that purpose better than the current model.

"Who drives with their hands at 9 and 3? I surely don't. I actually dont like 3 spoke wheels (GM has them on a ton of vehicles trying to copy the imports) because I like to rest my hand at the bottom of the wheel. seems like that may be possible with the G8."

Any professional driving instructor will tell you that 10+2 or 9+3 is the proper driving position. It allows for maximum response in an emergency situation, proper leverage and control while cornering, and proper arm position for airbag deployment and secondary control operation. I've attended multiple driving schools that have taught this and anticipate I'll hear the same thing again when I attend the BMW M-school in 2 weeks.

Cars SHOULD be designed to accommodate proper driving posture. That's why performance cars especially have thumb rests at 10+2 and why they often use 3-spoke steering wheels.

"Now the FWD V6 Accord family sedan is supposed to (somehow) defend itself against a totally different type of car, a RWD V8 powered dedicated sport sedan with a similar price."

Why not compare them? They are both 4 door family sedans, simular size, room, price, pretty everything except which wheels drive it.

They are the same type of car.

What are the sales number for the G8? I see more Chargers on the road than the Pontiac. Remember the Ford Taurus and the Chrysler 300 and how popular they were. I never hear people talking about G8, maybe because you never see them on the road. I guess the G8 never had it's Mojo.

+1, bimmerjay. I cannot believe he wrote that. I don't know of any real automotive enthusiasts and professional race car drivers who don't endorse placing the hands at 9 and 3 o'clock (some, but not as many, say 10 and 2 is acceptable, too).

"Too big for what? The car is 196" long and weighs almost 4k pounds. Large cars and trucks typically have larger steering wheels."

Large cars do not need to have large steering wheels to move them about (if that's what you were implying) given that we now have power steering. Smaller steering wheels are typically better in drivers' cars because it makes them easier to toss around. Case in point: F1 cars have tiny wheels. It would make sense for the G8 to have a slightly smaller wheel given its sporty disposition.

"Why not compare them? They are both 4 door family sedans, simular size, room, price, pretty everything except which wheels drive it.

They are the same type of car."

I agree entirely. It doesn't matter which is supposedly for enthusiasts and which is FWD / RWD. The fact is that they are both similar sized 4 door sedans in a similar price range. The Accord is not a totally different type of car and for anyone to suggest otherwise, that's just silly.

"Any professional driving instructor will tell you that 10+2 or 9+3 is the proper driving position. It allows for maximum response in an emergency situation, proper leverage and control while cornering, and proper arm position for airbag deployment and secondary control operation."

Excellent description. I don't know anyone that regularly drives outside of 10+2 or 9+3. Sure, there are instances, particularly when a long straight is involved. But anytime you're going through a twisty of any sort, I cannot fathom holding the wheel at any other position.

"Why not compare them? They are both 4 door family sedans, similar size, room, price, pretty everything except which wheels drive it."

The G8 GT was designed as a high performance sports sedan, the Accord or any other FWD V6 sedan in the segment was not or at least not to the G8s standard. The Accord and just about every other "family sedan" doesn't offer a V8 nor promises BMW 550i performance for $31K!

Both cars are similar on the surface but vary differently when one takes the time to scratch the surface. Why do so many here chose to overlook the details? Again apples vs oranges!

I guess it all comes down to what the consumer is looking for. For $31K Id pick the G8 GT if it offered a manual.

"Why do so many here chose to overlook the details?"

These details are irrelevant to the majority of the people who will be looking at this car. I'm not denying that the G8 will have a number of buyers who are really looking for the "high performance sports sedan", but I really think the overall demographic of the car will still be similar to that of the Accord.

The fact of the matter is any vehicles that are similar in price, size and # of doors will be cross shopped by the majority of people out there. If the 550i was $30k, you can be sure it would be cross shopped with the Accord.

Uh, call my crazy, but I drive with my hands at 9 and 3.

I drive with my hand at 7 and shift knob.
Weirdo.

Is this and apples-to-oranges comparison? To a degree, yes.

Does it still have merit? Yes.

These are both comparably priced, large 4-door sedans with ample interior room and luggage capacity.

Both would serve well in the family car role.

They will appeal to different buyers within that segment to be sure, but these vehicles are more alike than they are different. As an enthusiast, I'd take the one that offered an engaging and entertaining driving experience when not shuttling around spouse and offspring as required.

Give me the G8 and make it black. I'll have plenty of time for Accords and Avalons in my retirement years.

Although not truly an apples-to-apples comparision, cross-shopping the Accord and G8 is entirely possible.

In Australia, the Holden Commodore (the basis for the G8) is the most popular car on the market. It's the mainstream car there, often used as family cars, taxis, police cars, and company vehicles. They serve the same civic duties that a Chevy Impala would here.

The main competition for the Commodore are the Ford Falcon, Toyota Camry, and Honda Accord. All of these are considered mainstream, everyday cars and they are often cross-shopped.

So comparing the Accord and the G8 isn't that different from what occurs in the G8's home market

"+1, bimmerjay. I cannot believe he wrote that. I don't know of any real automotive enthusiasts and professional race car drivers who don't endorse placing the hands at 9 and 3 o'clock (some, but not as many, say 10 and 2 is acceptable, too)."

I know this is a shock to you but when I drive I am typically not on a race track. I have no doubt that race car drivers put their hands on the wheel as you described but that has no relevance to my daily driving. I rarely have two hands on the wheel. Sorry, but I dont go around pretending I am autocrossing when driving through rush hour traffic. The idea that I am not a car enthusiast because I dont drive with my hands in the "official" position of a race car driver is one of the stupidest things I've read on here in a while. I would hope any experienced driver could control his car with one hand most of the time.

1487- The Aura has fat wheel grips at 10 and 2 to promote this hand position. I swaped cars with a relative last weekend and had the Aura. I thoroughly enjoyed that torque rich powerplant so much that it made me use two hands (might wanna trade in my four banger).

When driving around town in my gutless Mazda3, I rarely use two hands unless the road turns curvy and gets empty- extremely rare in a Philly.

Most GM vehicles use the same steering wheel diameter (except the Cobalt and similar sized vehicles). I guess I'm just used to it since I've driven so many GM models in my driving history.

PS: The G8 does not compete with the Accord. The Accord is a family sedan and that is its chief priority and function. If you can stomach the styling, I'm sure it's a great car. The G8 is geared at a certain type of buyer unlike the ubiquitous volume selling Accord.

Give the G8 HIDs and a true LS2/LS3 V8 and I'll give Pontiac my payments.

1487, you missed the point. Not talking about driving on a race track or in an autocross. Let me repeat what I said, with emphasis based on what PROFESSIONAL DRIVING INSTRUCTORS teach (read !!!!NOT RACING INSTRUCTORS!!!!):

9+3 is proper because:

- It is the ONLY POSITION THAT ALLOWS MAXIMUM RESPONSE in an EMERGENCY SITUATION on PUBLIC ROADS. You should take a class to understand why this is so.

- It provides for PROPER LEVERAGE and CONTROL while cornering. Cornering on exit ramps, winding roads, or leaving the parking lot of the Piggly Wiggly.

- PROPER ARM POSITION for airbag deployment. Your arms should be on either side of the airbag, NOT above or below. Watch crash test videos and see where the dummies' arms and hands are placed on the wheel.

- Secondary control operation. The stalks, shift paddles, steering wheel controls, etc are usually designed to be operated with your hands on the wheel at 9+3 or with minimal distance from that position.

"I have no doubt that race car drivers put their hands on the wheel as you described but that has no relevance to my daily driving. I rarely have two hands on the wheel."

As I described again above, the 9+3 position is immensely relevant TO YOUR DAILY DRIVING, as taught by professional driving instructors. Not having two hands on the wheel is just plain dangerous at speed.

If you choose to drive with one hand on the wheel or use other improper posture, that's your personal call. But don't criticize those who follow the advice of professionals and who also understand and expect that car steering wheels be designed around a universally-accepted standard. Your personal opinion or driving style is not necessarily a standard practice.

"I know this is a shock to you but when I drive I am typically not on a race track. I have no doubt that race car drivers put their hands on the wheel as you described but that has no relevance to my daily driving."

I don't think he was talking about rush hour traffic because, frankly, when you're sitting still, the steering wheel is pretty irrelevent. Many auto enthusiasts do, however, enjoy driving enthusiastically (hence the term, enthusiast). Sure, we're not racing drivers driving race cars on tracks, but a nice twisty road and a great chasis can be fun. In these situations, the 9 and 3 positions are the best, not just for more precise control but also for safety (airbags). Take a look at the G8's wheel. With palms at the 9 and 3 position, there are nice little places for your thumbs. I've noticed that a lot of newer steering wheels have this, and I have to say that I like it.

bimmer,

I took driving classes and saw the book issued by PennDOT so I know all about 9 and 3. Dont use it and likely never will. I get nervous when I see people with two hands on the wheel in the lane next to me. Oftentimes they look scared or on edge and those are the folks I want to stay away from.

BTW, I have never found that I need two hands on the wheel at all times in order to operate my wipers or any other features of the car. In fact, I can tune the radio or climate control with my right hand with my left on the wheel. As for shift paddles, I rarely use them which is the case for most people who have cars so equipped. I was required to take a driver's safety course for work and I can assure you minimal time was spent on 9 and 3.

its absurd to suggest that someone is an unsafe driver because they dont drive with their hands in a certain position. Furthermore, few people I see on the road drive with their hands in that EXACT position. Folks learn a lot of stuff when learning how to drive for the first time but little of it is applied after 5 or 10 years on the road. I can tell you its standard practice for people NOT to drive in the position you have described in the real world.

sabastian,

I would have to be going extremely fast to necessitate two hands on the wheel. If I was driving an Avalon or Lucerne that may be a different story but in my car one can hit corners at a decent pace and not need two hands. As for airbags, its also recommended that you not be within close proximity to the wheel for safety but plenty of drivers have their seats upright and sit very close to the wheel. If I am in a head on collision I think I have bigger problems than where my hands are located. That said, not driving at 9 and 3 does not mean you are somehow obstructing the path of the airbag and endangering your arm. As mentioned the Aura has enlarged sections of the rim at 10 and 2 for those who need to use them. I generally do not.

"PS: The G8 does not compete with the Accord. The Accord is a family sedan and that is its chief priority and function. If you can stomach the styling, I'm sure it's a great car. The G8 is geared at a certain type of buyer unlike the ubiquitous volume selling Accord."

Thank you Chavis!

How about the V6 G8 then? How can you say that doesn't compete with the Accord?

from 1487's previous post:
"I can tell you its standard practice for people NOT to drive in the position you have described in the real world. "

It is absolutely true. Most drivers pick up BAD driving habits from the people that teach them to drive in the first place like family members.

"PS: The G8 does not compete with the Accord. The Accord is a family sedan and that is its chief priority and function. If you can stomach the styling, I'm sure it's a great car. The G8 is geared at a certain type of buyer unlike the ubiquitous volume selling Accord."

Sorry, but you are completely wrong.

Neither of these cars were available at the time I purchased my '07 Altima, but had they been, I would have considerd both. I took a close look at all mid-size sedans within about a 10k range of each other. I was looking for a blend of an entertaining driving experience with family comfort an utility.

In restrospect, the Accord wouldn't have had a prayer for the same reasons that the Avalon didn't have a prayer - but it would have been considered. The G8 might well have lost out for the lack of a stick and the fact that RWD and winter can makes things a little TOO entertaining. But it too would have been considered.

Sorry, but just because these vehicles wouldn't be cross-shopped by you doesn't mean they wouldn't be cross-shopped by anyone.

BTW, tied for second in my purhcase decision were the Acura TSX and Mazdaspeed 6.

"How about the V6 G8 then? How can you say that doesn't compete with the Accord?"

Ok, what Im trying to get across to some here is these 2 cars are not D I R E C T competitors. Do you think GM looked at the Accord when developing the G8? No, why would they as it didnt meet their performance standards in any way.

Sure... they may be cross shopped by a few but that doesnt mean they are direct competitors. Id say the Charger/300C are direct competitors since they both offer RWD chassis', V6/V8 drivetrains and higher performance 400+hp models. I think these cars are way more likely to be cross shopped vs the G8/Accord senario.

GM sedans that would be more inline with the Accord would be:

Chevy Malibu
Ponitac G6
Saturn Aura

I can remember reading some material from Honda back when the Malibu first debuted and it said that Honda didnt even see the Malibu as a serious threat. Not because its not a good car but because based on their own research Hondas target Accord demographic or typical buyer is much different than that of the Malibus. In the sense of the G8 that demographic would be even more different.

The cars may be similar in price (G8 GT) or in the same segment (Malibu) but that doesnt mean they all appeal to the same type of customer. Again there are those important details a lot of you just choose to ignore.

G8 = Apple / Accord = Orange

"G8 = Apple / Accord = Orange"

And if you're shopping for fruit, you might consider both. :-)

The only real, practical drawback of the G8 is that the rear seats don't fold down. I believe someone mentioned this before?

That is a dealbreaker for a sedan. It may be a simple thing but it can and does make a huge difference in the practicality of driving a sedan.

Otherwise, I lust after the G8 V8 over almost any other sedan. The price tied with the V8, RWD and tight styling inside and out... it's a really tempting combo- even in this day of $4 gas.

It is a bit large for my taste, I wish it were in the 185" range, but nicely styled for sure.

The only real, practical drawback of the G8 is that the rear seats don't fold down. I believe someone mentioned this before?

That is a dealbreaker for a sedan. It may be a simple thing but it can and does make a huge difference in the practicality of driving a sedan.

Otherwise, I lust after the G8 V8 over almost any other sedan. The price tied with the V8, RWD and tight styling inside and out... it's a really tempting combo- even in this day of $4 gas.

It is a bit large for my taste, I wish it were in the 180" range, but nicely styled for sure.

sorry, tried to correct to -180" long- but can't delete...

I've had fold down seats on my last 4 sedans and generally agree that it is a useful option. But your post got me to thinking how often I actually use it. I had to think real hard. I think it works out to maybe a half-dozen times for all 4 vehicles COMBINED. I guess I really don't often haul stuff that is too long to fit in the trunk.

What is it that you are transporting with such regularity that the absence of a fold-down seat is a deal-breaker?

"Not because its not a good car but because based on their own research Hondas target Accord demographic or typical buyer is much different than that of the Malibus."

That doesnt surprise me. It seems that Honda looked at no competitors outside of the Camry. For years people have been saying part of the problem with domestic automakers is that they design their new cars to compete with rivals that are going to be replaced shortly after their car hits the market. It seems like Honda did just that. When the Accord is up for a redesing I wonder if they will still believe that Malibu buyers are "different" and the Malibu shouldnt be considered a competitor. I once remember reading that a Toyota exec said GM's employee pricing wouldnt affect them because GM and Toyota have totally different types of customers. that type of arrogance leads to a Camry that is an also ran after 2 years on the market and 32% drops in September sales.

Fold down seats are great but I dont that they are a must. I dont use mine that much and oftentimes a pass through will do. At least the G8 has a huge trunk.