2002 BMW M3: For A Few Dollars More

Sorry, I should have said "...maintenance and little things..."

Yeah, no fair counting the needless brake upgrade against the M3.

"As I remember, you did a lot of maintenance on the Ferrari yourselves. At least some, which help alleviate the cost."

The DIY on the Ferrari was swapping a fuse, tightening a shift knob, lubing a hinge, inflating tires and replacing a cracked turn signal lens. Hardly $5k worth of work, even at a Beverly Hills Ferrari stealership using factory trained technicians.

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/2008/01/1984-ferrari-308-horn-is-fixed-happy-now.html

lets leave out the brakes

9,888-3,140 = 6748
Which is still greater then a 25 year old exoctic.

And people wonder why you only lease BMWs

couldn't you lease a new m3 for ~1000 a month?

lol, WOW. just checked bmw's website:

m3 w/ leather = 59,277

3 year lease, no money down, 12,000 miles a year =1138 + tax/tags.

I'm sorry, but its a joke to pay 1000 a month for a 6 year old car, when a new one costs the same.

1,000 bucks a month? Used car depreciation and the opportunity of more stuff to break....

I've owned a 2001 M3 for 2.5 years now, and here is what I've done so far. I only drive it about 5k/yr and my car is approaching 50k. Costs are approximate as I don't have the list in front of me.

-Replaced coilpacks - $0 (covered under 8yr warranty for those units)
-Oil changes - $120/ea
-Replaced coolant, tranny and diff oils (elective, not req'd at the time) - $300-400 for parts & labor
-Replaced 19" tires - $1000
-Replaced rear trailing arm bushings w/ polyeurathane ones (DIY), and alignment (not DIY) - $200
-Replace brakes - $500 in parts, I plan to install them myself soon
-Inspection II due next spring - $800-1000

I just hope I don't start experiencing the problems you guys have seen.

7Driver, take your Ferrari to the dealership to have those things done. I guarantee your wallet will be four figures lighter. Hell, the tire inflation alone will run you $100 per tire. LOL.

Opfreakx, the Edmunds M3 has experienced services that many of the M3 and BMW owners who post here have questioned. Mainly their desire to use the most expensive place possible (the dealership) instead of a good indy shop or DIY. That $1,000 per month for a six-year old car analogy vs. $1138 for a new one just doesn't wash. The M3 is expensive to keep; I'm not saying it isn't, but I think m thrizzle's example is much more representative of the breed than Edmunds'.

Yeah, I've also got an 01 M3. They're not cheap to maintain- that's for sure, but they're not THAT expensive either. When I bought mine, I had to do an inspection II, replace drive belts, power steering hose, diff seals, and fix a couple of oil leaks, but that we factored that cost into the purchase price of the car. The total for that was just above $2000 at the dealer. Past that, the only thing I've had to do was replace the FSU, and that was an $80 DIY.

I've got a 2005 M3. Bought it new, and now it's 49,000 miles - about 1000 from warranty. I've spent a total of ...

Interval oil services (every 12k) = $0
DIY oil services (6l + filter every 6k) = $70 x 4 = $280
Inspection I (all fluids, etc. @ 24k) = $0
Inspection II + new pads & rotors (@ 49.5k) = $0
Brake, transmission, etc. fluids = $0
Tires (Tirerack + local install & alignment) = $1,000

...that's about $1,300 grand total for more than 3 years, 50,000 miles of driving, some on tracks, many on backroads, often above 5k RPM and occasionally at redline. And that's full maintenance, with high-viscosity (10-60) synthetic oil changes at roughly every 6,000 miles. Other than one idiot deciding to kiss my rear bumper (replaced with OEM by good insurance company) the car has been trouble-free.

I don't think that is bad at all. Do you?

A 2005 M3 still under warranty (and 'free' maintenance) isn't a good comparison with a 2002 M3 that is out of warranty.

Even if you take out the elective items, you're still looking at over $5K for a car with only 60K miles. Maybe I just don't get it because I'm not a BMW guy, but is it worth this kind of expense to drive an aging "Ultimate Driving Machine?"

It's also important to note that if you owned the Ferrari, you'd have to hire Mike Magrath to keep the damn thing working. Never mind fixing the 308, the constant day-to-day maintanance for the thing is basically a part-time job. Time is money, and in that sense, you can add several G's to the Ferrari's tally.

bloodyr -- Drive one. Only you can make that determination.

By the way, my FSU went out too, but luckily it was during my test drive w/ the seller in the car! So he had it fixed as well as the plastic guides for the sliding cover of the moonroof, which tend to go crunch.

sgude, oh I know you can do cheaper maintance...

but I think people need a reality check. And for me, if just the maintance of the car was costing me what a new one would. Why am I driving the older one?

For reference, my '02 Z06 maintenance and repair costs since new 6 years ago. Currently at 42k miles:

Oil + filter changes 5 @ $60 (DIY): $300
Tires @ 19k miles (set of 4 GoodYear F1 Supercars): $1,300
30k mile service (air filter, fuel filter, tranny & diff fluid changes) : $100
New brake pads, all 4 corners @ 40k: $200
Replaced smog pump check valve @ 40k: $25
Tires @ 41k miles (set of 4 Michelin PS2's): $1,400

Total maintenance and repair cost over 6 years and 42k miles: $3,325. Excluding tires, it's $625. Non-scheduled repairs: $25.

No exaggerating - that is literally all I've spent on the car for maintenance and repairs. And it's been driven hard: 3 HPDE's, 4 auto-X's, and thousands of miles of hard canyon driving.

Brutal... just brutal.

It might be apples to oranges but when you sit down and look at actual cash expenditures, I wonder about the wisdom of not leasing a new one vs. financing an old one and paying for this kind of maintenance yourself.

Assuming the alternator replacement (you paid $1350, I paid $540 -> 540/1350 = 40% of dealer cost) as a valid data point from which to extrapolate a more realistic total repair bill and throwing out the brake upgrade to get some realist totals:

Scheduled Maintenance = $870
Unscheduled Maintenance = $1842 ($4605 * 0.40)
Wear Items = $1273

Total = $3985

Not cheap by any means, but any potential buyer of a used performance car has got to expect some deferred maintenance. I just hope that we're both through the worst of it now and can get on with enjoying these things. Also, front tires are typically replaced only every other time that the rears are replaced, so that should bring down the long term totals a bit.

I don't know guys, I don't see that I could extract any giddy joy out of spending that much money on what for all intents and purposes is simply a late-model used car.

If Edmunds buys anymore used vehicles I think one should be a pick up truck of some kind, the used car is flooded with them right now and many parts CAN be worked on with your own two hands and if something breaks, hell let it stay broken!

What you all fail to realize is that according to Edmunds (including readers) logic, a sample size of ONE is more than sufficient to represent an entire product line.

Can't we just admit this car is a lemon?

"And it's been driven hard: 3 HPDE's, 4 auto-X's..."

Wow, 3 HPDEs in six years? You ARE a hard drivin' man...

Excuse me people, there is no such thing as cheap BMW, especially M cars. Since the edmunds pays for all that stuff employees don't care where to service the car(I think?)They probably should've gotten aftermarket warranty and/or extended service contract. I'm starting to misunderstand Insideline, they are getting all the cars that normal people won't buy (Like gtr, m3, sti, evox and etc) and they are freaking complaining about fuel mileage, maintenance costs, impracticality, harsh ride and other stuff... WTF? We already know that high preformance cars require fat wallet, OK; we already know that. What most people NOW want to see is the new diesels, whether it's VW, Mercedes or Ford do in everyday driving. So Edmunds, CAN YOU PLEASE START ADDING NEW DIESEL CARS TO YOUR LONG TERM FLEET, PLEASE?

I thought my the occasional repair on my 2001 Audi S4 was expensive but I feel a lot better about it now.

LOL @ roadburner's comment! He probably does three in two months! :o)

stingray454, it's hard to believe you've done three HPDEs, etc. and have only gone through one set of brake pads in 40,000 miles. May I ask what track you were driving the Z06 on? I don't want to think you're not driving hard enough.

"LOL @ roadburner's comment! He probably does three in two months! :o)"

What can I say? Instructing is a dirty job, but somebody has to do it...

The big difference between the Ferrari and the M3 is that every guy I go to school with whose parents are either a lawyer, doctor, or reasonably good businessman has an M3, Mustang or 350Z.

Who has a vintage Ferrari? There's a guy on the UT campus that has a primer painted 1956 Mercury two door with a V8. I'd nearly die to have that car. Even if the Ferrari would cost a bit more in the long run, there's a certain something about having a car in a parking lot that you don't accidentally walk to when it's someone else's.

Just me, I suppose. But you're talking to a guy who has a solar yellow SRT-4.

Can you comment on the mileage put on the M3 vs the Ferrari?

It seems like every blog entry on the M3 emphasizes how much fun it is to drive and how much you use it every day whereas the Ferrari entries all state that you used it as little as possible because it's so uncomfortable and broken.

Yet again I must rail against Edmunds on this matter.

Brent - A comparison of the expenses between the M3 and Ferrari? Are you kidding me?

The Ferrari was taken to an independent and received almost no "extras". The M3 - Several extras and mostly dealership work.

You discount the possibility of finding middle ground in regards to the brakes and tires. You could have easily upgraded the pads, lines, and brake fluid (and probably had identical braking performance) and saved $2000. You could have gone with a similar high performance tire for about $300-400 less.

You could have spent about $400-500 on an alignment and control arm bushings (bushings mind you, not the whole control arm?), via an indy shop.

Door lock and power steering hose? $1500? Literally, about $300 at an indy shop.

For those out there, like me, who are willing to tackle items up to a 4 out of 10 difficulty (i.e. replacing brake pads/rotors and doing a brake flush, but not doing a valve adjustment), allow me to expand upon how much this car would've cost in the ownership of hands like ours:

1. New summer extreme performance tires - Yokohama Advan Sport = $1000

2. Rear control arm bushings = Indy shop is about $400 including alignment at the most. Or I could rent a tool for pressing the bushings, and probably do the replacing myself for $100 and an alignment for $150.

3. Door lock and power steering hose = $150 DIY, max. That probably includes some new tool purchases.

4. Brakes -

Pads = $166 from tirerack for front and rear performance pads (Hawk's HPS)

Rotors = $338 for all new cryo-treated performance blanks.

Lines = $164 for stainless steel performance brake lines

Fluid = $10 ATE Super Blue or similar

Sensors (4?) = $60

Brakes Total = $678 + ~3-4 hours of personal labor for the whole thing. And this is a total, replaceable-brake item job.

Alternator and FSU = I'll bow to others here, but $600 seems like a max for this one.

60,000 mile service -

Oil change = $100
Diff Fluid = $30
Trans Fluid = $60
Clean MAF = $.30 of MAF cleaner fluid
Engine Air Filter = $20
Cabin Air Filter = $40
Valve Adjustment + Spark Plugs = $300 to an indy shop, max
Coolant Flush = $40
Power Steering Fluid Flush = $10
Fuel Filter = $25

I was fairly conversative with everything here, building in the cost of upgrading fluids or parts and staying away from OEM if appropriate.

My total cost comes out too....$3,453.

And 30 cents if you count the MAF cleaner :)

Bear in mind that that includes, essentially, a whole new braking system (short of the master cylinder/ABS Module), 4 new higher-end tires, several repairs, and a VERY comprehensive 60,000 mile service (i.e. spark plugs are actually good for longer than that).

Yes, this is what it takes to get a 60,000 mile 6 year old M3 into "perfect working condition" at this point in it's life. $3500.

And really, you only spent about 7-8 hours of your own time working on it.

I spent 4 hours on my wife's Subaru Legacy GT yesterday doing an oil change and detailing the exterior.

Joe

Excellent post, Joe. It's amazing how much money you can save by doing the minor work yourself and finding an honest dealer/indie shop. And a BMW CCA discount doesn't hurt either...;)
If you enjoy walking into a pricey dealer, handing over your Visa card, dropping your pants, and grabbing your ankles, more power to you- but the resulting expense simply isn't an accurate reflection of the car's actual cost to maintain. Paying $500 to R&R an $80 FSU(a 45-60 minute job)?
And to top it off, throwing on over $3000 of aftermarket brakes and then complaining about the cost of upkeep? Maybe the next time you get a speaker rattle you should install a $5000 sound system. Hey, "it is what it is", right? Brilliant.
No one is asserting that BMW are the cheapest cars to maintain, but they usually aren't hellishly expensive either. And believe it of not, there are a few BMW dealers that offer great service at reasonable prices. For example, my local dealer performed an Inspection II(AKA the @60K mile service)and flushed the brake fluid, and repaired the curbed LF wheel for $374. By the way, I called Santa Monica and asked how much they'd charge for the same work. Care to guess?
Scroll down...

Inspection II: $929.95- and the service advisor said that they were currently running a "Special"(!)
Brake fluid flush: $175.00
Total : $1104.95
Only $730.95(295%) more than my dealer...

Dang, roadburner -- who's your dealer?!?

Roadburner - I'm already a BMW CCA member....now I just need to find my BMW :)

It's truly a shame when a fine resource like Edmunds goes so far afield in it's research.

How in good conscious can you include a big brake kit in a tally of total vehicle costs?

Why in the hell are two "high performance exotics" getting such seperate treatment and being compared to each other (Primarily dealership for the BMW, only Indy for the Ferrari).

How about I take my wife's Subaru Legacy GT to the dealer for every 3000 mile recommended service and then write about the high costs of Subaru ownership?

Joe

"Dang, roadburner -- who's your dealer?!?"

Swope BMW- Louisville, KY

"How about I take my wife's Subaru Legacy GT to the dealer for every 3000 mile recommended service and then write about the high costs of Subaru ownership?"

Excellent point; the thing is most vehicle owners don't do much more than change the oil- usually at Jimmy Bob's Kwicky Lube, Video Rental, and Tanning Salon. My Mazdaspeed3 work beater/track rat costs just about as much to run as my other track car- a 1995 3er.

I guess owning a car like this would be pure bliss as long as you're spending other people's money to buy it and repair it, oh and you don't have to worry about walking to work if its at the shop.