2008 Cadillac CTS: Window Switch Woes, Part Deux

Hey at least they're not the "cut off a baby's head" type switches that Domestic car makers have been putting in for years.

I does show how good cars are these days when all you can find to complain about is some crude switches and a few minor rattles.

I remember driving a STS back in the mid 90's and although it had some great points it also had huge, in your face flaws.

Those look like they are straight off a Cobalt. You can tell that the type of plastic they use is thin, cheap and not well finished. That's a Caddy for you.

firstwagon, just because there are little complaints, it doesn't mean the same car doesn't also have bigger problems. With the CTS for example, its interior packaging is a bigger problem than its window switch feel, but if you're spending a year with the car, you're going to notice both.

If I spent that much on a car I'd notice this every time. It's not nit-picking.

My friend's Cobalt has paint that is peeling off of the buttons for the radio controls and it looks uber cheap. I sat in another friend's Equinox the other day and the exact same thing was happening: paint peeling off the buttons (most of em). It's not such a big deal during the day but at night the light shows through where the paint has chipped, so it looks awful.

I'm not saying that the Caddy is that bad but stealing buttons from a car that does the above isn't acceptable. The CX-9's window switches (and what's surrounding them) look better than the Caddy's.

Then again, the Caddy's work properly....

I submit that this is further proof that this car (and every other produced by the not so big 3) is terrible.

Again, how do we know this is a sign of cost cutting? Seems to me (not that I'm as smart as Josh) that having a smooth edge would make the part easier to produce and cheaper. But, since its in the CTS it MUST have been a move to pinch pennies.

I am SHOCKED that my man Josh agrees with the Mechanicl. Biggest surprise since hearing Obama booed at the GOP convention. Who woulda thunk it?

what where the fit/finish issues? The link didnt help much.

Actually aren't those raised slats there so that your finger doesn't slide when you push or pull the switch? They're only on the part of the switch the finger touches, and i'm pretty sure Toyota switches were once the same.

He's talking about the leading edge, not the raised slats visible in the photo.

I'm not going to call the CTS a loser for something comparatively minor like this, but any regularly touched surface that feels unfinished or cheap will likely annoy me. The more I paid, the more annoyed I'll be.

On a related note, sharing parts is perfectly acceptable to me as long as said parts are good quality.

Oops, sorry. Link to fit-and-finish post fixed.

Edubya, correct -- it's the leading edge I have in mind. It's basically a sharp right angle that digs into your fingertip every time you touch it.

-Sadlier

One thing for sure: the plastic piece that wraps around the window switches looks awfully cheap to me...

I love the cast iron looking finish of the plastic trim around the switches! Feels very cozy.

Gives it the genuine look of a hard working American, banging away with a hammer at the fiery foundry to form this magnificent piece of work.
And at the end of the hard day's work, he'll go for a Bud Light next to the finished Cadillac CTS.

Those switches must be bottle openers then! I've solved it!

I pay attention to things like this as Ive always been one to scratch the surface and head right for the details. You know places where the manufacturer or craftsman thinks the consumer wont ever look or touch.

While were on the subject of windows and buttons what do the windows sound like when opening and closing? Loud, quiet or make any special kind of noise? Do they sound cheap (like my CL)?

My 2003 Acura CL Type-S 6MT overall is a pretty solid car but one thing that REALLY bugs me about the windows is the sounds they make when opening and closing. They motor whine is just plain loud. The noise they emit isnt in any way pleasant as the glass itself sounds like its moving around slightly in the track. This really makes the car feel cheap. Its almost as if the motors and tracks are from an early 80's Honda Accord. Not acceptable. The buttons are as expected in a car within the CL's price range 5+ years ago.

By contrast my best friends 2005 Mercedes C230 Kompressor Sport 6MT windows are barely audiable and just emit a very muted "ssssssssssss" when opening or closing them. The buttons feel good and the detents are very well detialed. I really appreciate craftsmanship of this calibre, now if the Germans could just get their electronics right......thats a whole different can of worms.

As far as the mechanic is concerned I do agree with him to a point but I wouldnt go as far as he did and say all domestic cars are juck as thats simply not the case. The CTS is a fine car regardless.

About those details....this is one area the domestic luxury brands needs to focus on a bit better as people who shop in this price range and above look for these types of "irregularities" or signs or of "no one will ever look here". I have yet to buy a car within the CTS' price range (although our 2005 Odyssey Touring was in the mid $30's) yet I look for these signs in every car I drive no matter the brand or country of origin. In the end its a minor detail to some and a major one to me (and others) as its all about the details.

To further validate what I just said Ill give a really good example of a past experience. Drive a last generation Cadillac CTS-V 6MT and feel all the drivetrain slop and listen for excessive gear whine. After doing so drive an Audi S4/RS4, BMW M3/M5 with manuals (of the same year or close) and Im pretty sure there wouldnt be any drivetrain slop or gear whine.

Precision and refinement are very important to me in any car and even moreso when the price increases. Im sure the new CTS-V will be better than the last generation regarding drivetrain slop and gear whine but it needs to at least equal or better yet, surpass its German competition.

Edmunds, since the CTS is a competitor (price wise) to the C Class and you just happen to have BOTH in your LT fleet how about comparing overall build quality, tactality, details, squeaks, rattes and noises (good or bad). Id really like to see if the C Class window buttons are "sharp" like the ones on this particular CTS.

"To further validate what I just said Ill give a really good example of a past experience. Drive a last generation Cadillac CTS-V 6MT and feel all the drivetrain slop and listen for excessive gear whine. After doing so drive an Audi S4/RS4, BMW M3/M5 with manuals (of the same year or close) and Im pretty sure there wouldnt be any drivetrain slop or gear whine."

I drove 2 previous-gen CTS-V 6MTs on a track a few years back, and I can agree with the driveline issues. On hard 1-2 shifts in both cars, you could feel a shudder through the tunnel. The refinement of the gearbox action itself was lacking as well. It was also easy to replicate the axle hop on hard launches that everyone bitches about. I've driven RS4s, M3/5's and even Corvettes and can say without a doubt they put down the power with far more refinement.

I doubt any of you in this forum plan to buy this car so who really cares? The car has been a hit and as far as I'm concerned, that's what counts at the end of the day. I'm still gonna get one.

Its amazing how people can accurate gauges how much a manufacturer paid for plastic bits based on pics posted here. How can anyone really tell if the buttons or plastic around them is cheap based on this picture? To some degree plastic is plastic. You can change the finish and texture but it's all just plastic. I think it's apparent (well not to the author) to most people that CAdillac spent money on this car. If the worst feature of the car is the finish of the edge of the window switches then I would venture to say this is a pretty nice car.

Interesting how no other driver of this LT car nor any drivers in any other tests I've read have been bothered by these "cheap" window switches.

I checked the link and those are not fit and finish issues. Fit and finish is about how parts of the car (inside and out) are assembled in terms of alignment and panel gaps. Even German cars are known to have rattles and they generally have great fit and finish. That said, mentioning that prior entry was a great way to get people to check out the Big 3 bashing Mechanic article which I'm sure is right in line with the views of some IL staffers.

Those are poor fit and finish issues, poor panel and trim fitment so they rattle and buzz.

"I doubt any of you in this forum plan to buy this car so who really cares?"

Seeing as I just purchased a vehicle this year, I don't play to buy any of the cars in this forum. Does that mean I have no right to post?

If there cannot be blogs posting about minor nit-picky issues on a car, I don't know what the IL staffers are supposed to post about for a year long test. Not every post can be about 0-60 times.

What is the top switch on that photograph for - the one with the orange light? The picture cuts it off a little.

That would be the button (two-ended) that selects which exterior mirror the (not shown) adjuster is adjusting. And for the record, I disagree wholeheartedly about the quality of these switches.

Unless I'm greatly mistaken (hey, it's happened a time or two), those switches are the same as the ones that were in my 07 Avalanche LTZ. They were some of the best feeling and operating power window controls I've ever had the pleasure to use. And if they're 'cutting' into your fingers, you need to stop using them as handholds. It requires very little pressure to push down, or, conversely, to pull them up. My fingertips go *under* the switch, and pull against the underside, which is why there's a nice cutout under it. The quality of the materials actually feels very high to me.

Granted, I haven't used the switches in a recent Mercedes to compare them, so maybe there are even better setups out there. But these aren't 'cheap feeling' by any stretch of the imagination.

"That would be the button (two-ended) that selects which exterior mirror the (not shown) adjuster is adjusting."

Thanks. Now that you explain it, the "graphic" makes more sense.

"Those are poor fit and finish issues, poor panel and trim fitment so they rattle and buzz."

That's not what the post says. Panels dont rattle or buzz simply because they arent aligned properly. That blog entry mentions nothing about poorly assembled interior or exterior panels. Dash rattles and other rattles are amongst the hardest things to pinpoint in a car. C&D had a LT GTI and said the dash was rattling from the beginning and the source was never found. Unless every CTS driver notices these sounds I tend to believe they have been greatly exaggerated. Dont you think Josh would have written 2 pages about the CTS' rattles if they were that noticeable?

"Granted, I haven't used the switches in a recent Mercedes to compare them, so maybe there are even better setups out there. But these aren't 'cheap feeling' by any stretch of the imagination."

I dont think it's wise to make such comments here. They MUST be cheap because the author said so. What further proof is needed?

Panels RATTLE and BUZZ because they're not fitted to the door correctly or wherever else they might be, the MDX had issues with panel rattling and misalignment because clips we're missing from the panel. FIT directly pertains to rattling and buzzing.