2002 BMW M3: Alternator replacement

Who's willing to bet they cut you a deal because you're Edmunds? $350 for a ton of positive advertising? Who wouldn't?

Interesting post, horrid prices though. This blog has certainly scared me a little when it comes to a used performance car. That looks like a gorgeous dealership unlike anything I've ever seen.

I don't normally gloat, but I just can't seem to help myself today. Sorry.

But all those who voted "battery" really need to go back and relearn your high school physics! :-)

"Who's willing to bet they cut you a deal because you're Edmunds? $350 for a ton of positive advertising? Who wouldn't?"

I certainly didn't tell them. I think they would rather get some money (as I expressed dissatisfaction in the price and said I might do the FSU on my own) than no money.
-mike

Ouch, $500 for a FSU. I had to do this in my M3 a while back. Got a FSU for $80 shipped, and spent two hours replacing the old unit. And that was my first time replacing anything in this car. Now I can do it in half an hour- it really is quite easy. I'm sure it took the BMW tech no more than half an hour to do it.

Ugh...seeing the insides of that service center makes my stomach churn.

I took my 2005 330ci to SM BMW for 30k maintenance in April, and it never came out. After 37 days of stalling, BMW bought the car back under Cali Lemon Law.

Not saying SM BMW killed my car...I don't know for sure. But my experience there was nothing like yours.

I replaced my 330ci with an '08 Civic SI. :-(

Still faster, safer, more reliable, more comfortable and cheaper to buy and operate (dare i say, more aggresive looking) than the Ferrari.

Wow, an alternator that's expected to fail at 60K miles? I've owned MANY differnt cars, and I've only replaced the alternator in one car: a 1979 MGB. This Bimmmer must have Lucas electricals...

You've obviously never owned a 80's/90's Jag Jason :)

7driver - I've experienced enough really funky things happening when the battery started to go south that I don't feel bad at all. I still think the original alternator was just fine and that it was a loose electrical connection. (hehehe, j/k)

Tettes - Way to join the SI brotherhood...wooo.

Joe

Not to bad mouth, but i will..

A quick search will turn up some interesting info on SM BMW.

Rated "F" by the BBB -and hated by many (I think everyone actually) on Yelp, BMW forums, etc

I used to own a Jaguar 1975 XJ12, and the alternator is the only part that never broke.

Such a beautiful pice of junk she was....

Did you even call Summit to see what the alternator would have cost? These prices are ridiculous, even at dealer rates. $777 in labor should be four or five hours. And I'm sure this took them a whopping one hour.

You should still call Summit and ask what their pricing would have been.
As for Santa Monica getting an F from BBB, that was a few years ago. Their latest score is "A".
http://www.la.bbb.org/BusinessReport.aspx?CompanyID=45015
So please don't pass on poor information like that.
I took my 330 to them just recently for the 'free maintenance' program and they were very polite, prompt and I had no complaints. Once my car is out of the free maintenance deal, then I will take it to Summit.

man - i so agree abt santa monica lexus - they suck - you have to go there 3 times for the same damn problem which they cannot repair. I am a med student and was working liek 85-90 hrs a week - getting up at 4 am - and i had to take my car in twice - what a pain in the rear. The manager started arguing with me - it was a horribe expereince - anyone have any other advice to where to go for a 01 lex gs430 with 57k miles. Thanks

P.S. I think edmunds should do reviews on used cars - ie letting neighbroing LA enthusiast bring in their cars and let edmunds test them and review them - I would love to see how my car goes 0-60, slalom times and max lateral g's. Or even just offer a driving school/track day on your testing track.

i'm sorry i missed something, but whats so speical about about a bmw alternator?

these arent complexe devices, magents spinging around some wound wire.

640 dollars? what excatly does it do thats better then my 120 dollar one for a sunfire?

even the autozone import is ~240.

all this german engineering sounds like a total rip off

Where is the altenator is a BMW? How hard can it be?

I'm not sure how much of that $1058 in labour was for the altenator but the one I changed on my Subaru took me 15 minutes in the parking lot of the store where I bought the replacement.

minus 1 for BMW

Quite a while ago I had an old porsche 928S. One day the alternator failed.

Using the Porsche part number, the unit was over $500.

Using a Lucas part number, the IDENTICAL unit was $99.

I liked the part in this post about "budgeted BMW owners", there's something incredibly ironic about that...

Mike,

I'm not sure that I follow the logic of this post - you decide to go to the Santa Monica dealer because you haven't been there in a couple of years, and yet I seem to recall you guys having gone there almost exclusively with your LT E90 330i and your E46 328i. Were you really expecting much to change in two years? Versus going back to Summit or any other indy for which you guys have one experience total?

Also, half the reason you stated that you agreed to pay the extortion at the dealer in the first place was that the dealer had the part in stock - and yet, you still didn't get your car back until a day later? My indy mechanic doesn't stock many parts either, but it sounds like the total turnaround time is the same (24 hours). Only difference is that my guy is waiting on parts while the dealer is stacking customers in the queue. Well, there is one other difference - my alternator bill (rebuilt Bosch) came to $540 total ($300 parts, $240 labor).

Even though you guys are accounting for all maintenance costs to penny (as stated in another post), you really aren't choosing your hired wrenches as if those costs were coming out of your personal wallets. No one I know goes to the dealer for service on an out-of-warranty BMW, no one.

...and the total maintenance bill for the BMW continues to rise. Plus 1 for the irony of the "budgeted BMW owner" statement, that is if that owner is not capable of turning their own wrench.

I really can't wait to see what the total cost of ownership has been for this car at the end of it's term.

Summit probably doesn't stock the part but don't they just send someone over to the BMW dealer's wholesale department to get one?

$1,900 in repairs does start making a used M3 less appealing, and fits the 'never buy a BMW out of warranty' statement. A $500 repair bill like mentioned above is much more livable.

It would have been much more interesting to see if you could have done either repair yourselves (without destroying something).

$1900 to install less than $500 worth of parts. You didn't mention it, but can I assume that the dealer kissed you and sent flowers the next morning?

A couple of years ago I had put off changing a noisy idler pulley on my wife's 128K 1997 528i, and my procrastination was rewarded by the pulley bearing disintegrating and taking out both serpentine belts as well as the fan shroud. I decided to let my independent BMW tech handle the repairs. While he had the car we decided to replace the radiator, the water pump, and the remaining idler pulley as a precaution. My tech also found and replaced a bad tie rod and had the car aligned. The total repair cost?
$1161

I realy am surprised it was the alternator. I have owned or known a lot of BMW owners and one with an E39 530i is the only one I know that ever replaced an alternator. That's definitely a scary price, knowing how long it took to replace the E39 alternator, I would bet against it only taking an hour to replace like bepperb suggested. 153K miles on my E46 alternator and counting. *knock on wood*

As for the suggestion that they only lowered the price due to them being from Edmunds, I've had the dealer offer me deals on service just as a good will and to maintain my loyalty and I'm nobody. Also, for the person complaining about them getting it back the next day anyway, I would gather that has to do with him not authorizing the repair until later that day.

The comments I've heard that BMW's cost a bundle to fix once out of warranty is again confirmed. But the labor costs are amazing...just how many hours did they actually work on that vehicle?

remember when this car was first purchased and we were told about what a value it represented? You could have the performance of a $50k M car for "only" $33k or whatever this car cost. Now we know the devil is in the details. Sure this car outperforms many brand new $33k cars but you will pay for that performance. You shouldnt have to do any major work on any modern car before 100k miles. It should be oil changes, brakes and filters. No one will ever be able to explain why you have to pay so much for parts and labor on a German branded car.

Edmunds - I've said it before and I'll say it again: The point of a long-term blog post is to provide useful information to us peons about potential car ownership.

Most of us know how it feels to walk into a dealership and ask for an out-of-warranty replacement. How does that educate us further?

Did the Ferrari receive Ferrari dealership service? Did it need 24 hour turn-around?

As pointed out, it probably would've been alot more educational to perform the final stage resistor unit replacement yourself, if not the alternator as well (i'm not sure how buried the alternator is).

Here's the deal Edmunds:

1. You are not informing your consumers in a helpful manner.

2. You've become spoiled on your own riches

3. You are in danger of losing some of your "street cred" for barely doing any repairs yourself.

You buy a brand new Honda, Saturn, sure take it to the dealership for servicing every 5,000 miles. You buy a 5 year old BMW M-series....why don't you set a standard for tackling everything up to a medium level of difficulty yourself, and then take it to a trusted indie mechanic after that.

I'm sure I'm one of your regulars who produces a fair amount of ad revenue for you. I enjoy visiting this site alot more when reading about shade-tree mechanic work, ice cold glasses of lemonade dripping condensation on a sweaty brow, the feeling of hot oil spattering out of an oil pan as the pan-bolt first comes out. And I enjoy reading about how regular Joe's like me can buy a $30k M3 in place of a Accord/Altima/Aura and what it's like to work on and own.

Because all I've read so far is how much fun it is to hear the engine (thanks SadButTrue!). Oh yeah, that and then I read about how much you spend on the M3 (very high priced tires, superfluous braking system) when it's not your hard-earned pennies you are spending.

I guess the M3 ownership isn't a blog for the everyman; it's a blog for the spoiled.

Joe

I kind of agree with Joe here. But mostly because this isn't San Diego Inside Line. While I'm sure that a few of your readers will benefit from insight as to the quality of local dealer service. Mostly I don't care because I don't live in So Cal and the quality of service there has no relation on the quality of service here.

$1000 for labor?!? How many hours and at what rate? If, per Subytrojan, an amature could do the work in a few hours, surely the pros could do it in less time.

This was definitely a job you should have done yourself. Telling us that you, for no apparent reason, spent an exorbitant amount of money to have the dealer do a job that you probably could have done yourself for less than 1/2 the cost doesn't do much to educate me about owning and maintaining this particular vehicle.

Oh, and what the hell is a Final Stage Unit?

Whoops,

Santa Monica

I think that's the most expensive alternator replacement I've ever heard. That alternator must have been a @!#$% to get at to warrant anything like that labor cost. Like removing the engine to replace it.

Nice garage floors though - I guess you have to pay to keep those clean and shiney.

"Oh, and what the hell is a Final Stage Unit?"

It's a special secret German screwing device.

Joe: I have to disagree with you here. I am an automobile fan, not a gearhead, and this isn't a Chilton's guide, it's Inside Line. I've been reading Edmunds for years, and as far as I know it's never been a hardcore DIY site. They may advise you to perform your own repairs when possible, but then they refer you elsewhere for the gory details.

I'm not saying that a site like you described wouldn't be welcome, I'm just saying it doesn't sound like it falls in line with Edmunds' mission.

Misterfusion - I understand what you are saying, but i'm not asking for hardcore DIY. I'm asking to set a line in the sand. For instance - fluid changes, replacement of pads and rotors and flushing the brake system, filter replacements, etc. should most likely be DIY for a 30k enthusiasts car bought 5 years old as "here's what you can get instead of a brand-new v6 family sedan".

I mean honestly, I think we all know that owning a 5+ year old BMW and taking it to the dealership is going to be a checkbook burning experience. Are we educated by that?

In comparison, how educated could we be by saying "I picked up 4 cases of 10w60 oil for the M3....should last up 25,000 miles. Oil changes on this car require all the usual tools and the filter is easy to access. Expect each change to cost you around 1 hour of time and $90 in oil and filters".

"Flushing the braking system has a kink in it; most cars are furthest-to-closest in the bleeding sequence, the M3 is closest-to-furthest."

The final stage resistor was described as a couple of hours with a set of torx bits.

I'm not saying they should take this mantra with the brand new cars they buy. Absolutely, attend the dealership. That's an important part of reviewing new cars especially, and old cars to a lesser degree. But when you buy an older, out-of-warranty exotic performance vehicle....you have to take one of two tacts:

1. You are wealthy and won't worry about the nickel-and-diming.

2. You are not wealthy and your pennies are pinched. You do what you can yourself, and find a nice independent mechanic to take care of the rest. The last resort is the dealership.

This M3 was bought and billed not as a pampered owner's garage queen, but as a performance car for an everyday driver. As a "look what you can also get for 30k". As a "Lets see what it would be like to live with this car day in and day out" daily driver mobile.

Which fits in with #2, not #1. But money is being thrown at it like it's #1.

You may say it doesn't sound like Edmunds mission, but I don't understand what Edmunds mission is with this car because their writings have confused me.

Joe

Ouch! As a fellow E46 M3 owner, your posts are scaring the Benjamins out of me!

I googled the alternator part # and found a Bosch unit for $210.

Did you ever get your valve adjustment performed? I remember reading that Summit did your Inspection II w/ the exception of that (and tranny fluid too!).

"I mean honestly, I think we all know that owning a 5+ year old BMW and taking it to the dealership is going to be a checkbook burning experience. Are we educated by that?"

Yes, because it shows by how much it is a checkbook burning experience. I wondered what maintenance and repair expenses would be on a used German car out of warranty, and Edmunds is answering that question in detail. I knew it would be expensive, but I didn't know by how much - now I know, so this has been helpful.

Stingray, anyone can google that info. I've gotta agree with Joe. One of my short-term goals is to own an E46 M3, so I follow this blog with keen interest. While the M3 I buy will not be an everyday driver, it will see considerable use on trips and weekends, so a little more DIY or experience from an indie shop would be extremely helpful. I don't plan on it becoming a money pit.

Stingray - Would you take a used German car to the dealership or would you take it to the indy shop?

If the first, then you fall into the category of either being ignorant about how to save money or your car or not caring when it costs (I don't think you fall into either).

If the latter, then how exactly is realizing how painful the dealership can be a more realistic long-term blog experience?

Joe

Point(s) taken, and I can recall some very informative and entertaining posts by Dan Edmunds where he did a couple of DIY jobs on cars in the LT fleet (can't remember which ones at the moment).

"Checkbook burning experience" -- LOL, that about sums up my impression of used BMW's. It could be inaccurate, but either way I'll be content to enjoy Bimmer ownership vicariously.

The only thing this blog has proved is what is common knowledge among serious BMW drivers; there are dealers out there that will ream you for the smallest repair. ANY good inependent BMW shop could have replaced the alternator and FSR for considerably less than $600. And most drivers would replace the FSR themselves- ditto for oil changes and brake work. Edmund's experience mirrors that of the typical affluent BMW "wearer" who owns the car only because of the emblem on the hood. Maintenance/tires/repairs on my 1995 3er track rat have averaged less than $50/month to run since I bought it new in October 1995- and that number includes three sets of sticky ZR rated tires. My wife's 2004 X3 is averaging @$66/month, but I change the oil twice as often as the SI system calls for. An M3 will be more expensive to run, largely due to the fact that the valves need periodic checking and adjustment, but it should still average less than $80-$90 per month, especially if you are willing to tackle the minor maintenance and repairs AND you farm out your other work to a honest dealer or independent. For comparison, my Mazdaspeed 3 work beater gets serviced at 5000 mile intervals and its maintenance costs are currently averaging $50/month as well.
Sure, I could save money driving more pedestrian vehicles, but I share the philosophy of my fellow Kentuckian David E. Davis Jr.-
Life is too short to drive boring cars...

roadburner - Agreed on the statement about life being too short.

However, all things being equal, similar dispositioned (with respect to doing their own maintenance) people will spend more money maintaining this used M3 than they would have spent maintaining a brand new $30k +/- car.

Even if you like performing your own routine/minor maintenance, you would have still spent more time/money on this M3 - the difference being that you would have considered that to be "quality" time...=)

By the way, so it's said, this type of high mileage maintenance is not exclusive to BMW's either. Most German marquees have similar hunger for timing belts/annoying electronic problems later on in life, at least that has been my personal experience substantiated by a number of other people with similar experiences.

"However, all things being equal, similar dispositioned (with respect to doing their own maintenance) people will spend more money maintaining this used M3 than they would have spent maintaining a brand new $30k +/- car."

Yes, but that's going to be true whenever you compare a 6 to 7 year old car to a brand new vehicle. And in the case of this particular M3, the long-term editors have simply handed their wallets to their service advisors and grabbed their ankles. [I]Of course[/I] an M3 is going to cost more to run than a mind-numbing FWD Asian or American FWD family sedan. The question you need to ask is whether the additional time/expense of upkeep is worth it. And that's a purely subjective question. In my case, I'll gladly pay a few extra dollars per month in exchange for the pleasure I get from owning a car that I truly look forward to driving- whether to work or at a HPDE.

Hey guys,

Roadburner - great metric for maintenace. My 06 civic SI, now at 50,500 miles or so....well, I've owned it for about 32 months and spent about $1200-1400 in maintenance/repairs on it (2 sets of tires, about 8 oil changes, new front brake pads, new coolant, K&N air filter, etc.). So about $45 a month to maintain it...and that's a brand new Honda Civic (granted, a performance version). And I do all my own maintenance/repairs (so far).

FYI - My wife's brand new Subaru Legacy GT had it's first electronic glitch yesterday. She started it, turned on the front and rear defroster, and the whole radio and climate controls went dead. No lighting or functioning. Drove ~20 miles that way. Stopped and restarted the car and it works fine. I wrote about it in a forum and apparently at least 5 owners had that experience once in 50,000 miles without any additional problems :) Apparently, it's part of the Subaru break-in....

Joe

The maintenance cost of this great car has continuously kept me from purchasing it. I would hate to buy a car that I would have a hard time maintaining, or a car that would have to lay dormant in my garage until I had the money to take care of the repairs and service.

How much have you guys spent on service for this car since aquiring it (not counting the big brake kit)?

" I don't plan on it becoming a money pit."

You're going to be in for a rude awakening then. Most used German cars out of warranty are money pits. The E46 M3 was maintenance hungry even when new, and as it ages, it's getting more expensive to maintain and repair, not less.

"Stingray - Would you take a used German car to the dealership or would you take it to the indy shop?

If the first, then you fall into the category of either being ignorant about how to save money or your car or not caring when it costs (I don't think you fall into either).

If the latter, then how exactly is realizing how painful the dealership can be a more realistic long-term blog experience?"

Joe, you're missing the point.

Personally, I'm a motor head, and a pretty damned good wrench. I have motor oil in my veins. So obviously I would do 95% of the M3's repairs myself, and the other 5% would probably be done by an independent repair shop for extreme failures like transmission, engine replacement, etc. So it would probably never see a dealership under my ownership.

Put it this way: my '02 Z06 has seen a dealership ONCE in its 6 year life - to have LoJack installed when it was new, and have some poorly installed weatherstripping fixed. Much of this was because I've had virtually no problems with the car, but also because whatever repairs or maintenance the car has needed, I did it myself.

Anyway, my point is 90% of car buyers are NOT DIY'ers like you and me. There are plenty of enthusiasts who would enjoy driving an M3, but have no clue how to repair it, and would likely bring it to a dealer or repair shop for that. Edmund's experience shows what it would cost to keep a used M3 running for folks who don't know how to repair their cars themselves.

Regardless of who does the work, Edmund's experience with their M3 demonstrates another used German car trait: parts are expensive.

After the used M3, perhaps they should add a used AMG Benz (E55 Komp) or used Audi S4/RS6. I'd be curious to see how the other German performance machines match in terms of maintenance.

Good point Chavis...I am really curious to see the reliability of Audi's in particular. I have a strong distrust for older VW's and Audi's, even though I find Audi's to be very attractive vehicles. While I'd love to get a used S4 Avant, I fear it would be a money pit.

m_thrizzle,

I recently considered buying a used 2005 S4, but decided against it for several reasons-the primary reason being the fact that it was equipped with a slushbox. However, unlike several BMW experts in this thread, I don't believe that I'm qualified to express an opinion on Audi long term reliability or running costs since I've driven only two Audis, I don't own an S4, and I have only anecdotal information regarding Audi maintenance and repair. That said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the aforementioned experts also possess a considerable amount of "knowledge" that they will soon share about the cars from Ingolstadt.

I feel the same way about Audis. I love the design and engineering of them, but everyone I know who has one has loads of problems with them (and VW's). Enough problems that they wouldn't buy another one, even though they were covered by the warranty.

My family has always had at least one Audi or VW vehicle in the fold, going back to the original Beetle. None of the cars have ever had any serious malfunctions, save for a 1987 Audi 5000s whose fuel pump decided that it wanted to sh*t the bed on the Tappan Zee Bridge. =)

My personal experience has been with two Passats ('01.5 & '04) and a '08 GTI & a '96 Audi A6 (current cars). Sure, most have had some annoying minor problems (mostly auxiliary electrical), but nothing that impaired the vehicle's usefulness. In fact, I had not a one problem in 4 years of owning the '04 Passat.

I am a VW/Audi enthusiast (obviously), but I would not recommend long-term ownership of one (or any German nameplate for that matter) to a person that isn't adept at turning a wrench or can't be bothered reading a shop manual. You can get taken to the cleaners pretty fast otherwise, as depicted in this blog entry.