2009 Nissan GT-R: Nashville to LA, Part 1: Picking Up Godzilla

Perfect opportunity to drive the autobahn of North America -- the road between Matagami and Radisson in Quebec:

http://www.wheels.ca/newsFeatures/article/305437

I drove this road a few years back in my 1986. I don't think my speed was below 100 mph anywhere on that road, including the spectacular sweeping bends that take you around lakes and hills. No police and harly anyone else to slow you down. No help, either.

I agree, it doesn't look half as good as the 350Z's parked behind it. Especially in plain white. I'd have to get blue or red or orange or something colorful. Also, I'm pretty much over the whole big mouth bass thing that Audi started. I take back the comment about color - I'd get it in black to try and disguise the face. It does have certain details that work for me - the hood, and the head- and tail-lights are cool. But the profile is just weird. I suspect I'd rather own an M3, but I'd still like the chance to drive the GT-R just so I could say I had driven one. Nice that y'all have both.

I'm sure this car is more fun than Wii tennis, but why did they have to make it so ugly? I'd probably like it if it wasn't for that styling.

I don't think its that ugly. The only part I hate is the black grille area, which looks particularly bad on a white car. I like the black GT-R's because that area blends in with the rest of the car.

Why do you guys keep saying the GT-R is faster than the Z06 and Ford GT, when it's not? You even posted a link to a video of a street race on YouTube with the GT-R and Z06 in every acceleration test (from a stop, from a roll, etc.), and the GT-R lost every race. And the Ford GT is faster than the Z06, so its definitely not slower than the GT-R.

The only advantage the GT-R has is 0-60 time. Quarter mile, the Z06 is clearly faster - look at the trap speeds. 0-150, the Z06 crushes the GT-R. From a roll of 20 MPH up to any speed you want, the Z06 will also spank the GT-R. The Z06 also has a higher top speed. So I don't know how you can say the GT-R is faster. The only two tests that I would agree the GT-R is faster than the Z06 is 0-60 and Nurburgring lap time. Every other condition, the Z06 is faster.

Don't get me wrong, I love the GT-R. But I think its been a little over hyped as the fastest car on the planet, when it's not. I also think Nissan has played a few games with the early models introduced to the press to produce some ringers to hype up the car even more. Some of the recent tests of full production model GT-Rs have revealed much slower cars than those early press models.

If Edmund's GT-R is a full production model, it'll be interesting to see what it'll do performance wise relative to that monster in Japan they tested.

I've grown to like the GT-R's looks, sort of. Is it the halo of hype as sgude suggests? Maybe, but I'd take one any day at $73K, if I could just secure spousal approval (and actually find one at sticker).

StingRay,

R&T did a comparo (May'08 issue) with the GT-R, Z06 and 911 Turbo. All got to 60 in 3.4sec and the Z06 pulled away from the GT-R from 80mph on. It was a full 2 seconds quicker to 120mph. Better yet, the Z06 only needed 2500rpm on the tach to achieve these numbers while the GT-R had to use Launch Control.

Somehow, InsideLine's acceleration times for the Z06 are much worse than the mid 3 second figures other tests have revealed.

I do like the interior of the GT-R. I'd bet it's fun to play with all those information displays.

Oh when will the Edmunds GT-R blo*job ever end?

So I take it this wasn't done with the regular edmunds procedure of just pretending to be a regular customer? Or did you have some other trick to get out of paying the $50k dealer markup?

the grille looks better on Audi's.

not that the altima or maxima's grille would be any better for this vehicle though...

"If Edmund's GT-R is a full production model, it'll be interesting to see what it'll do performance wise relative to that monster in Japan they tested. "

None of the cars tested since the initial Japanese cars have been as fast. C&D has tested 3 cars and every time they test the car it's slower than the last example. The car has a very complex AWD system and thus has better traction than any RWD car such as the vette. The Vette is considerably faster but cannot match the traction advantages of the Nissan and thus loses in 0-60 sprints and on the track.

I've seen uglier cars but why pay $80k for something that isnt good looking? The performance is great and you have bragging rights but to most folks it will just be an ugly coupe. Wait until you tell them you paid a $10k markup on a Nissan.

I also want to know how you got out of the dealer markup. It must have been a hookup from Nissan NA, but they didn't/wouldn't just loan you one? That must also be why you're out picking up in TN. Details?

I wouldn't be surprised if people mistake it for an Eclipse. http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2009/Mitsubishi/2009.mitsubishi.eclipse.20225862-E.jpg

Sorry, guys, but I haven't bought into the hype. Besides, the Corvette is an infinitely sexier car. I'd rather have that parked in my garage than the silly GT-R, I don't care how technologically advanced it is.

Oops -- my post should have said "...the halo of its reputation OR the fact ..."
Dang.
Edmunds, please don't take this car through an automated car wash. Wash it by hand, like its owners will.

Ditto, greenpony. For the same money, I'd have a Z06. That is, if you're paying sticker. If paying a huge dealer mark-up, I'd have a 911 or ZR-1. AWD, exclusivity, gran turismo fanboys, blah blah blah. Give me classic styling, RWD, and a real manual transmission.

This car is so much more expensive than the next most expensive Nissan that I wonder how GT-R owners will feel about Nissan customer service.

For what its worth, I'd take the GT-R over a Z06. I think when it push comes to shove, both are more then quick enough in a straight line and on a track to brag to your friends about. For me, the appeal of the GT-R is that it doesn't have a less powerful look alike, whereas your Z-06 will be mistaken for a "regular" corvette 9 times out of 10.

Don't worry about service. I own a 300ZX Twin Turbo and they always kiss my ass when I come in. I'm sure the GTR experience will be no less.

The Corvette is infinitely better looking, but they are everywhere. That is what has prevented me from buying one actually. I'd rather have something more unique...

Most people racing by numbers have no clue what it really feels like to be in a fast car. Here's a novel idea. Go drive the cars and see for yourself.

I'm not sure how a long term test will tell us more about the GT-R than we already know. We already know its a great performance car at a price lower than its performance target, the 911 Turbo. We've already read Edmund's long trip in the GT-R to get a sense of its roadworthyness outside the track.

So what does a long term test tell us? Whether anything will break?

I *love* reading reviews of high performance cars on Edmunds, IL, and the print rags but to be honest long term tests are better reserved for *real world* cars. Yeah they are boring for editors to drive around, and you won't draw in as much ad revenue from visitors, but the advice will be better. For example, a year long test of a 4-cyl Malibu, a Subaru Forester, or Toyota Matrix would be more useful for the majority of Americans than a Ford GT, Nissan GT-R, or a used M3. But then I can understand the need to draw in readers with something sensational, but not particularly useful.

I'll still read the excellent long term blog though, although you are really doing a disservice to your readership by not focusing exclusively on realistic vehicles.

Who the hell cares if the GTRs competitors are as quick or not? You can't really use an eleven second car on the street anyway.

I love that a 'new' car already has 37 miles on it before being picked up. That happened to me a few years back when I picked up my new VW 1.8T. It also had 37 miles on it, no doubt being used to get lunch etc knowing that it was already sold...
Somehow, I feel the Edmunds GTR was used for other things prior to pick up...
Either way, my money is on this thing being a lot slower than the one they were loaned that they had to put octane boost in, or the one tested in Japan. Let's see how reality bites.

eric_l, that's the best post I've read in a LONG time. BRAVO!!

To be honest, with the recent M3 brakes mod and the addition of the GT-R, the LT blog has really drifted away from its original intend IMHO.

The ugliest feature on this car is the kink that begins at the B-Pilar and slants down radically. It's an angular car to say the least.

Plus it's BIG. Toyota Camry Big. I saw one at a Car Show in Pasadena a few weeks ago and couldn't get over the sheer size of the thing.

While a Z06 and a Ford GT may thrash it in straight-line speed, the reality is, this car features AWD and All-Wheel steering. It's no wonder this thing posted the times it did on the 'Ring. The 'Vette with it's outdated suspension would be looking at it's tailights on a mountain road and I can imagine the Ford GT wouldn't be able to catch it either in a similar environment.

But it's still too big.

not that crazy about the z06 corvette look since it pretty much looked the same for the past 18 years.

I don't think the GTR looks bad, I really like the back, front I'm ok with.

While I'm not shocked to hear that people don't like the GTR's looks, I am surprised that people are calling it ugly. It's awesome looking!

It looks muscular and menacing, especially from the back. Every time I look at it I'm reminded (for some reason) of the movie Transformers. I guess it looks modern enough to be a Transformer. Anyone else concur or am I just crazy?

As much as I like this car, however, I think that the Edmund's staff has overstayed their welcome in GTR land. Posts for this car will be redundant.

I'm stoked you guys got one of these. While I'm not at all a fan of how they look (having seen several in person at Cars and Coffee in Irvine), I readily admit that the performance is astounding.

I'm very curious to see how the maintenance experience is and how much it actually costs.

Damn, it must be good to be you.

Put me in the camp that thinks this thing looks terric.

erik_I, that is an excellent point. I've been trying to say that for a while but I didn't want to sound like an asshole. You didn't.

While the GTR will be fun to read about, Edmunds needs to keep adding more realistic cars to its LT fleet. Some suggestions (since your budget is apparently limitless):

1) 2009 Subaru Forester (naturally aspirated, since most will be sold this way)
2) 2009 Chevy Malibu 4-cylinder
3) 2009 Mazda 6
4) 2009 Acura TSX
5) 2009 Dodge Ram or 2009 Ford F150 (can they survive $4/gal gas?)
6) 2009 Kia Borrego (is it dead on arrival?)

Perhaps you guys to do another long-term test on another 80's sports car, like a 87-89 911 or a 1st-gen M5.

Also, where are all the entries? When you had the R8 on the road a few weeks ago it seemed there was a post every hour or so.

That 2 minute idling reccomendation sounds obnoxious. I suspect most people won't follow that, mostly because the GT-R is usable enough that you guys will use it everyday and you just want to jump in, turn the key (push the button?) and go.

zoomzoom22 and the rest of you suggesting long-term road test vehicles, you should also check out Edmunds.com Editor-in-Chief Karl Brauer's blog at: http://blogs.edmunds.com/karl/

I agree with others, While its nice to read about excotics...

they tend to get overwhelming coverage, and really miss a large target audience.

right now there is in the fleet:
evo x
sti
m3
r8 (for like one more month)
gt-r
g8
ford gt (well its gone but still listed)
135

or about 1/4 of the cars you have are perfomace &/ exotic.

its nice but at times kind of why?

I think its great having high performance cars in the LT fleet. I think it is interesting to know how living with these exotic cars on an every day basis is. However, I do think this blog is focusing a little bit too much on these exotics. One exotic and a couple mainstream performance cars would make for a good balance, IMHO.

So I have to wonder, since the GT-R's warranty is voided at the slightest hint of performance driving, will Edmunds spend the next year paying for the inevitable repairs (they break something on every car) on a new car? Bummer.

Also, this media fascination with the GT-R is getting a little old. I was really impressed at first, even being a GM fan, but now that all the mags and websites are nothing but bold proclamations of how the GT-R's stats (now disputed) put the Vette to a well deserved death, I'm tired of hearing about it.

And to throw in my humble opinion of the styling, I like the exterior, but I hate the interior. It makes the new Accord look simple.

I'm sure the coverage has gotten old if you're a Corvette fan, or prefer German sport-lux. Those of us raised on Japanese imports see this as the halo right now. There haven't been enough of them.

As for the looks... try giving the Corvette or 911 two real rear seats. You end up with an M6 or something just as awkward. And sure, the GT-R is awkward too, it's hard to make a 4-seat performance car that isn't. But that's what the GT-R has been in every one of its incarnations, so anyone who knew anything about the car had to expect it.

I wanted to comment on Karl's blog about what to put in the LT fleet, but it says I don't have permission to post there. WTF?

I like the 2005 idea. Get a used car and drive it from 60k to 80k miles. If you go american you can combat the stigma they start breaking down at 50k miles. Or get a used performance car like a Z or S2000 to see if those feel good after being beaten on. Maybe grab a cheap used WRX and use it as a project car (exhaust, chip tune, etc..), then compare to the new STI in the fleet.

I really want to see a $20k to $25k Porsche Boxster (2003ish). The Edmunds TCO on these is low, so it should be cheap to run. I want to see that put to the test because no one thinks of owning a Porsche as cheap. It's more relevant than an 80s 911 because no one with sense would get that, and you already did the 80's dream machine angle with the Ferrari.

This one might be tough. How about importing a Euro Focus? You can compare with the LT USA Focus, and get the jump on your competition since we'll be getting the Euro Focus in 2 years or so. Fiesta would also be acceptable.

Plain new cars:
Jetta tdi wagon - Crossovers be gone, wagons are BACK!
Camaro - v6, not v8, to test the new breed of muscle car (the fuel efficient kind)
Genesis - got to do this, Korean luxury?
Ford Flex - family cars need testing too! It's interesting and different.
Passat CC - Passats never get love like the Japanese cars do, just ignored. Also there is the VW reliability angle.
Tesla roadster - slam dunk if you can get one

That's it for now.

ok, one more suggestion. A 100k mile used Civic. That's a reality for most young people.

I think you guys are on the right track with the cars you choose for long-term tests. I come to this site to read about cars I cannot afford (yet) or never will. There are tons of other material related to regular cars like the Malibu and Accord; it is not necessary. However, reality for an enthusiast like me is a used M3. That is absolutely perfect! I could not afford one of those things new; I'd have to go the pre-owned route and I have been following that car very closely, believe me. Most of the blogs on the regular cars ... I skip right over. My only beef with you is that you use automatic washes, which is simply not what any enthusiast I know does.

I think Inside Line is doing a great job of getting a good mix of cars that are practical everyday cars (aka not so interesting to read unless you're truely car shopping) and exotic cars that have more presence (aka for those with a healthy imagination). I dunno, I'm young and I'd love to know what it would be like to have a gt-r daily, or at least fantasize about it. Already planning my mid life crisis :-D

"The Corvette is infinitely better looking, but they are everywhere. That is what has prevented me from buying one actually. I'd rather have something more unique...

Most people racing by numbers have no clue what it really feels like to be in a fast car. Here's a novel idea. Go drive the cars and see for yourself."

Corvette's are not ubiquitous everywhere. They certainly arent in my area. Unfortunately, most people dont have access to Z06s and GTRs to test out the capabilities. If you do, more power to you. The fact that most of us havent had the pleasure of driving a GTR doesnt mean we have no right not to worship the car. I have no doubt the car is a monster but I still dont like to look at it.

BTW, anyone who knows anything about cars can tell the difference between the base C6 and the Z06. Also, I dont think there's anything embarrassing about having a car that is related to a $45k "base model".

"To be honest, with the recent M3 brakes mod and the addition of the GT-R, the LT blog has really drifted away from its original intend IMHO."

Exactly. There is nothing for most of us to gain from reading 300 posts over the next year about a $75k Nissan we can't afford or cant find at a dealer. The GTR is in the fleet because the editors can drive it for free for a year. It really has little to do with providing useful information to the masses.

Those saying that there is "plenty" of information about regular cars in print or on the internet are mistaken. While monthly mags test a few affordable cars they do not provide the type of frequent updates you see here on IL. In fact, the enthusiats mags are known for devoting half their fleet to expensive luxury cars or sports cars that most people cant afford. It would be nice if IL was different and focused more on attainable vehicles.

Anyone who wants to read about the GT-Rs great performance can chose from dozens of road test reviews. I dont think the LT blog should be a place for repetitive posts full of praise for expensive cars. We ALREADY know the R8, M3 and GTR are great peforming cars. We dont need hundreds of posts to tell us that over the course of a year or two.

If the true aim is to mix in as many sporty or high performance cars as possible I wonder how the Vette/Z06, CTS-V, 300 SRT8, Cobalt SS, Caliber SRT, Challenger or Mustang GT have been skipped over. There seems to be no problem adding import coupes or turbocharged compacts to the fleet but there is no interest in American performance. Well there is the GT but that was bought by Karl so it doesnt really count. Have they ever long term tested a Corvette?

You find any for love for domestic performance on this blog. The C6 has been out for like 3 years and no Long Term love. We keep hearing about how great the R8 is as an everyday car but the Corvette has been doing that for years. This is the same group of people who added a car to the fleet just to test out Ford's SYNC.

I think the biggest problem with getting performance cars like the R8 and the GT-R is that we have to listen to Corvette owners complain all year about how their beloved Z06 doesn't get the love it deserves :P

Whether the above statement (Z06 doesn't get the love it deserves) is true or not, I cannot say. I CAN say that the whining gets old, fast.

I do agree with a few of the last posters...

why no vette? stock or z06,

why no ford mustang gt?

why not an american sport compact, we had the civic si, now the sti, and the evo. Why no caliber srt, or the cobalt ss, or if you want to go goofy, the hhr-ss?

heck, i'd like to see a mspd3, but would like to see life with one of the domestic models as well

"I think the biggest problem with getting performance cars like the R8 and the GT-R is that we have to listen to Corvette owners complain all year about how their beloved Z06 doesn't get the love it deserves :P"

How many Z06 owners really post here? I can't recall anyone here stating they owned a Z06.

"I think the biggest problem with getting performance cars like the R8 and the GT-R is that we have to listen to Corvette owners complain all year about how their beloved Z06 doesn't get the love it deserves :P"

How many Z06 owners really post here? I can't recall anyone here stating they owned a Z06.

Wish I had known you were in town. I would have treated you to a Starbucks on Carothers Rd. just north of the HQ so I could shake your hand and place even a pinky finger on that sheet metal. Have fun!

I never though about it now. But edmunds is clearly biased towards imports.

I just did the math on their current line up, and previous LT line up.

Current:
29 cars,
20 import
9 domestic

Previous:
26 cars,
20 import
6 domestic.

life time total:
55 cars
40 import
15 domestic

In other words,
the current fleet is 30% domestic
The lifetime fleet is 27% domestic.

"How many Z06 owners really post here? I can't recall anyone here stating they owned a Z06."

In my previous post, I suppose 'owner' is interchangeable with 'supporter' or 'fanboy'.

Then again, I think it was pretty clear what I meant.

dougtheeng- give it a break. If it wasn't for the Vette and 911, there would be no GT-R, R8 or any of these other performance cars. They sustained the market when Audi had no sports car and Nissan completely withdrew from the genre after the 300ZX. The Vette/911 are sports cars all their own. They are not based on modified heavy sedan platforms (GT-R) or hand-me-down exotics (R8). I guess if you use any modicum of logic in these forums, you are labeled a "fanboy."

chavis, I have no doubt you carefully read my initial post - nevertheless, I'll clarify something.

I didn't insult the Corvette (or even mention the 911). I even went out of my way to not comment on the car itself.

My comment was related to the hijacking of threads by supporters of certain vehicles. It happens all the time with certain cars blogs, and I'm guessing that trend won't end for the GT-R. Some of us get a little old of it.

opfreak -- While I do agree with you that there has been a dearth of domestic cars represented historically on IL, there are more import brands than domestic in the auto market. In addition, there hasn't been many "exciting" entries introduced by domestics this decade (ok, maybe a few but I can count them on one hand).

To be blunt, car manufacturers are viewed as: the imports are exciting and the domestics are rental cars.

Unfortunately.

Oh, and Southern California isn't known for the Bastion of Domestic Representation either. It's just not stylish enough to roll up in your Chevy Impala.

gah edit feature FTL. Last sentence should read:

"Some of us get a little TIRED of it".

Well a month or so ago, I pointed out to Edmonds that the price they quote for the retail of the GT-R was a little off price. The response was sill and they maintained the price to be $84,000.

I pointed out every dealer I contacted wanted atleast 25-30 thousand over sticker, edmonds remained firm on their retail price that people were paying. While being busy Rolling on the floor laughing, better know as (ROFWL) I looke on of all places e-bay.... all sorts of GT-R's on sale. Some from private sellers some from dealers.

No one was selling the GT-R even close to what Edmonds claimed the sale price of the GT-R is being sold to real people.

Why is this? I have no idea why Edmonds does not mention the 25K to 35K upcharge or as some call it GOUGING?

The GT-R is selling on E-Bay for about 98K to 104K.
Every dealer I contact want about the same.

Edonds seems not to mention the gouging..

"Southern California isn't known for the Bastion of Domestic Representation either"

Heck, I live in So. Cal and I'll pick the Z06 over GT-R and ZR1 over R8 on any given day.

Oh, I drive an import and 1487 can tell you that how much of an "import fanboy" I am...

dountheeng- I know you didn't insult the Vette or mention the 911. My point was that some people aren't going to worship the GT-R (or other new comers) when other performance cars have been holding down the segment for years. For the life of me I can't understand how a Vette hasn't been added to the fleet but we can get a limited edition GT-R, R8, used M3, used Ferrari 308 (and 456GT a few years ago) and hell, even TWO mini Coopers. Does not compute (in my brain at least).

I too wonder how Edmunds managed to get the GT-R for the price they are claiming.

Fair enough chavis - your point is quite valid.

"I too wonder how Edmunds managed to get the GT-R for the price they are claiming."

Presumably because some deal was made directly with Nissan PR, not just with the dealer.

I think everybody gets something different out of these blogs depending on your particular situation. Personally, I like reading about the G35, 135, M3, etc. because that is the type of car I own and would likely consider again when looking for a new car. The economy cars don't really interest me because I'd never be shopping in that price range, and the same goes for the exotics in the opposite direction.

You'll never please everyone, and although there is an obvious bias recently towards 'performance' cars, they really do have a pretty good mix in the fleet.

OPFREAK: Since you brought up the composition of our long-term fleet as an example of bias, I thought I'd compare the percentage of domestic vehicles in our fleet versus the percentage of domestic nameplates on the road. I didn't take into accound sales, I simply counted the number of vehicles Edmunds wrote a review about for 2008 (everything including the Veyron).

It roughly came out to 324 models available for purchase in 2008. Of those 123 were domestic. That works out to a percentage of 37.9 percent. So yes, I guess we're presently off that number by 10 percent. Is that bias?

How about some suggestions to fill in that 10-percent gap?

The other thing that needs to be considered when determining LT testing bias is that there is a lot of overlap among domestic models. For instance, would it make sense to test the Traverse having already had an Enclave? Should IL get an Escalade having had a Tahoe? A Caliber after the Compass? A Malibu after the Aura? They've added almost every significant domestic vehicle that's been released recently. The only one that I can think of offhand that was passed over was the Saturn Astra.

"My comment was related to the hijacking of threads by supporters of certain vehicles. It happens all the time with certain cars blogs, and I'm guessing that trend won't end for the GT-R. Some of us get a little old of it."

Doug,

If you dont like hearing about the GTR's competitors perhaps you should stay away from GTR blogs. On any car blog key competitors are mentioned so its hardly an issue unique to the GTR. What you are failing to grasp is that any vehicle that is praised as the Second Coming and heavily hyped is bound to be scrutinized. If the hype wasn't so overwhelming it's possible that the comparisons wouldn't be so frequent and intense.

BTW, I think those saying that we shouldn't expect IL to drive domestics because they are located in SoCal are totally wrong. IL's readership lives all over the country. About 90% of the US doesn't live in CA so it would be best to cover cars for the US as a whole.

"In addition, there hasn't been many "exciting" entries introduced by domestics this decade (ok, maybe a few but I can count them on one hand)."

Yes because the CTS/CTS-V, Soltice GXP, Vette, Challenger, 300/Charger SRT-8, Cobalt SS, Caliber SRT, Mustang GT, G8, Lambdas, Flex, Edge, Escalade, etc are all dull vehicles. They certainly lack the excitement of the Camry, Altima, Lancer, Fit and SmartCar. If anything I would say that the Japanese are a distant third when it comes to exciting vehicles behind the Europeans and US automakers.

"A Malibu after the Aura? They've added almost every significant domestic vehicle that's been released recently. The only one that I can think of offhand that was passed over was the Saturn Astra."

Thats a bunch of BS. We have named several models that have little overlap that should have been added. I will say they are MUCH better than they used to be. A couple years back their fleet had two domestics. The excuse was no domestic vehicles were interesting or "all new" and thus they werent considered. The Astra, Mustang (might as well wait for 2010) and Vette should have been considered. I am pleased with the addition of the G8, CTS, Enclave and Aura because they all should have been in the fleet. If you look at the mix recently one could say that the domestics have been debuting more interesting vehicles on the whole. Aside from the new Honda hybrid and TL I cant think of much from the imports that should be added next year. I have said in the past that adding ubiquitous vehicles such as the Camry and Accord to the fleet is a waste of time. Why would anyone need to follow a LT blog on the two best selling cars in America? Test cars that people may not be familiar with but should be on their shopping list.

I posted in karls blog.

the new camaro,
the new but used mustang gt
a vette maybe.
2mode saturn vue when it comes out.

to add to that list..

why not one of fords hybrids escpaes

or a full size ford car.. the flex? or a taraus.

how about the ford fusion?

or gms different mid-size car. The g6?

or one of the sport compacts...

a cobalt or hhr -ss?

I just don't care much for the GT-R. It isn't so much the styling (I like that it doesn't look like everything else on the road) but the way it achieves its performance. Call me old-fashioned or a purist, but what is so special about a car that achieves such incredible performance figures all because of electronic systems? A sports car is about the raw connection between man and machine, not the connection between man and an electronic interface. Strip the GT-R of AWD, its dual-clutch automatic, and all its electronic nannies and what you have is a very heavy, full-size coupe that I strongly doubt could keep pace with an Audi A4 around a racetrack let alone the R8.

I do not mean to single out the GT-R here for it seems all sports cars are heading down this road. I just wonder when good-old fashioned mechanical tuning became passe.

It seems like the GT-Rs accleration numbers are all over the map in terms of consistency and performance and seems to vary considerably from GT-R to GT-R. Ive seen low 12's to 11.70s which is quite a spread. Trap speeds vary also as Ive seen 116mph range to 121mph.

Overall track performance = GT-R
Overall street perofrmance = Z06

Id have to pick the Z06 over the GT-R as a personal vehicle as Im not at too fond of all the weight and electro doo dads of the GT-R. In the end the GT-R offers world class performance with a driving experience that doesnt seem to excite.

Better yet give me a Porsche GT3RS and call it a day.

mercedesfan, I completely agree. If you can get a GT-R at MSRP, it does however represent an amazing value despite its issues. If I had the money, I'm not sure that I could pass it up if only so I could experience that type of crushing speed. In the back of my mind though, I'd probably always be wondering if, for the money, a 911 would have been more fun. Adding dealer markup (to $100k-ish) makes it a whole different story. For that money, GT3's, Vantages, and R8's are much more tempting prospects.

"They are not based on modified heavy sedan platforms (GT-R)"

I beleive the GT-R has its own dedicated platform and this is why the Skyline part has been deleted from its name. Past Skylike GT-R were Skyline based.

"What you are failing to grasp is that any vehicle that is praised as the Second Coming and heavily hyped is bound to be scrutinized. If the hype wasn't so overwhelming it's possible that the comparisons wouldn't be so frequent and intense."

I understand the concept of scrutiny, and I agree that when a vehicle is heavily hyped you are bound to get some intense comparisons.

I'm simply making a prediction for the future - I should have guessed it elicit a typically snarky response.

mercedesfan - completely disagree with you.

in puresit terms the point of a race/sports car is to go faster then other cars.

The ends to that means imho doest matter.

otherwise, why bother advancing? how many electronics nannys/controls do all cars today have?

lets all race with carborators, with no power brakes, no power steering, and a crank at the front of the car to start it up.

opfreak I totally agree with you on the progress aspect. I think that certain electronic features are great for a sports car to have for the daily driving aspect (stability and traction control) but they should be fully defeatble. Other electronics (such as AWD systems that adjust braking and power to individual wheels) take the skill out of tunning a car. Why spend hours getting the suspension just right when the AWD system will just compensate? I believe this technology is wonderful to have, but should not be applied to a sports car.

I also disagree with you in a sports car's mission. Race cars are designed to go faster than other cars, sports car, however, are about the experience. Look at a Mazda MX-5 or Lotus Elise. They are comparatively slow but a blast to drive because of their purity of form. A purist cares nothing about speed, they want the experience.

I know people will disagree with me, but it is just how I personally feel. Put me behind the wheel of a 1968 Porsche 911 Carrera and I would far happier than if I was in a 2009 GT-R. But that's just me.

mercedesfan - differnt strokes for different folks.

the only thing i'd disagree with you in your last comment is "Why spend hours getting the suspension just right when the AWD system will just compensate?"

because imho, you can have both, if you have the supsension just right, then the AWD system can work even better.

no amount of manaul tweaking, will allow the car to redirect power to an indivdual wheel at a moments notice.

Yes you lose 'feel', but outside of bumbs, and g-force, almost all feel these days is artifical.

I could give your butt a harsher ride, just by changing the seat, And I could introduce an atrifical heavy road feel by just repograming the electric steering, or having a steering pump ill matched for the application.

HondaAcura4

"'They are not based on modified heavy sedan platforms (GT-R)'

I beleive the GT-R has its own dedicated platform and this is why the Skyline part has been deleted from its name. Past Skylike GT-R were Skyline based."

Nissan has made this claim but I remain skeptical based on the dimensions and weight of the vehicle. It can be easily assumed that this car is based on the FM architecture I find it hard to believe that Nissan would make a dedicated sports coupe this large and heavy if it had it's own unique platform. I'm pretty sure the GT-R is manufactured on the same line as the G as well. Nissan also claims the GT-R's engine has nothing in common with the VQ37VHR.

"It roughly came out to 324 models available for purchase in 2008. Of those 123 were domestic. That works out to a percentage of 37.9 percent. So yes, I guess we're presently off that number by 10 percent. Is that bias?"

First of all the types of cars tested in a given year has more to do with what is released that year than the editors choices. If a new car comes out you will test that car. Your LT fleet is made up of cars that your editors like (except Aura, Focus and a few others) and that fleet is very tilted towards imports. If your current fleet is 30% domestic and domestics have 45%-50% marketshare I would say your fleet doesnt reflect reality. And before we hear the "there are no interesting domestic cars" speech I would remind you that we have named NUMEROUS interesing domestics that have never been tested in your LT fleet. If the Vette or 300 SRT8 aren't interesting I fail to see how cars like the Lancer and RAv4 qualify as interesting.

I agree with OP that the fleet in the future needs to be more domestic oriented in order to bring some balance to the composition of the fleet. It shouldnt be difficult because there arent many significant or interesting vehicles coming from the import manufacturers in the next year or so. I also think IL needs to avoid getting two generations of the same nameplate. There has been talk of getting a 2009 Fit and that is just stupid. You have a 2007 and there is no need to test the new model.

Just for clarification, IL had a 2005 Mustang GT as a long-termer.

"How many Z06 owners really post here? I can't recall anyone here stating they owned a Z06. "

Me. I own a 2002 Z06. I know it's not a new C6 model, but I've owned it since new, and it's performance still holds its own against today's cars. Stock, some of its specs were:

0-60: 4.0 seconds
1/4 mile: 12.4 @ 117 mph
skidpad G's: 1.00g
braking 60-0: 104 ft.
Top speed: 176 MPH (rev limited in 5th)
Nurburgring lap time: 7:56
Horsepower: 405
Curb weight: 3,118 lbs.

My car has a few bolt-on modifications for the intake and exhaust that give it a dyno'd 450hp. It now runs 0-60 in 3.9 seconds (traction limited), 1/4 mile in high 11's at about 119 mph.

So I've got 30 less horsepower than the GT-R, but my car is a whopping 700 lbs. lighter than the GT-R. My car actually has a significant power to weight ratio advantage over a GT-R.

Bottom line: A GT-R will kill me 0-60 from a stop (I can't launch my car well without roasting the tires). But if a GT-R wants to race me from a roll, I'm your huckleberry ;)

"Just for clarification, IL had a 2005 Mustang GT as a long-termer."

Good. Now they need to get a Camaro V6.