2008 Subaru Impreza WRX STI: Living With It

HA! Southern California has lower prices than Souther Oregon. I don't believe it! The lowest priced Chevron around here is 4.05. It was 4.09 on Saturday though so it's dropping fairly rapidly. Surprising though it is, it still costs me upwards of $75 to fill up, but at least it's not the $85-90 I had been hitting last month.

Yup, the STi is the car that offer the best balance between daily drivibility, usefulness, incredible fun and low price.

It is the best bang for the bucks as a daily driver for a real car enthusiasts.

lazyhater

I agree with everything you said except the low price part. Over $40K is just too much.

That Chevron is on Main and Chapman in the City of Orange.

Agreed on the price. With the '09 WRX packing 265 horses, is it really worth the extra 10k for the STi? The only thing that makes me think it might be is that the WRX doesn't have limited slips.

I'd love to see a comparo of the Evo, ralliart, wrx and sti. Which one wins for daily living. Not pure driving fun but daily living.

+1 on that, firstwagon.
The STI would be perfect except for that. At $30K, I'd be totally sold. But hey, I guess all that technology costs.
I really like how this car looks in black. Very menacing. Now if you guys would just bring the circle of car enthusiasm complete and wash your own car! I fervently believe you don't know your car unless you wash it yourself. You don't have the "Dammit, where did that ding come from?" moments, or the "Boy my tires are really wearing on the inside shoulder" revelations. That's a big part of the ownership experience. I've only seen you guys do that with the Ferrari.

"I'd love to see a comparo of the Evo, ralliart, wrx and sti. Which one wins for daily living. Not pure driving fun but daily living."

We know the answer, it'd be one of the hatches. I love the hatch, but just cannot love the STI's looks.

"It's quick enough to jump through traffic"

I would hope that most cars match the above description. I certainly don't think you need a $40k rally car to do so. I guess thats what happens with you're used to driving R8s and GT-Rs.....a STI is just barely quick enough for normal traffic, lol.

dougtheeng: agreed on that comparo! But throw in the Mazdaspeed3 as well. I think for $24K it is also a real bargain and a worthy competitor to the Ralliart and WRX. At $41K, the STI is just too pricey to be considered a "pocket rocket" competitor.

The STI draws me for all it's performance goodies over the WRX....the engine and it's upgraded intercooler/turbo/and I think pistons...

It's rough-and-tough 6-speed transmission that is much better shifting than the 5-speed (personal opinion).

It's wheels and tires. It's limited slips. It's more capable and more rugged suspension.

Of course, it's ridiculously expensive for the overall level of content. The WRX should be 24k and the STI should be 28-29k, base on both.

Just my .02

Joe

P.s. Considering BMW is selling what it is (135i) for 35k....less than the STI....I think the STI has plenty of price to come down.

Those questioning the price of the STI remember that Edmunds has one that's fully loaded (BBS wheels & Navi—both expensive). A base STI starts around $35K.

http://www.subaru.com/shop/overview.jsp?model=IMPREZAWRX&trim=STI&command=overview

19 MPG? Wow, that's bad for an econobox, even with 300hp.

For comparison, I just averaged 18 MPG in my '99 diesel Suburban 3/4 ton 4x4, while towing my 3,000 lb. 18' boat. The Suburban weighs 5,750 lbs. by itself. Combined vehicle weight was almost 9,000 lbs., and the entire rig was over 40' long.

stingray454

I don't think anyone will be cross-shopping a 3/4-ton Suburban with an STI. Also, those shopping an STI (or EVO, etc.) aren't thinking "econobox," but rather "sports car." In that light the mpg numbers are acceptable; not great, but acceptable.

Everyone is comparing apple to orange here:

Comparing MPG between a low revving diesel auto box that stay at 1500 rpm constantly vs. a high revving boosted rally car with 2 LSDs that are constantly rev to 4~6k rpm.

Comparing price of a fully loaded STi to a barebone 135i.

A comparably equipped 135i is $44k and it doesn't have 4WD. Edmund's STi is $39k.

"lazyhater: I agree with everything you said except the low price part. Over $40K is just too much."

You misunderstood what I said a little.

I said the best balance, a $39k STi is the cheapest car that offer that much. I can't think of any cheaper car that offer the same performance and comfort.

Just like the GTR, $70k is a lot of money, but it is the cheapest car that offer that much performance and comfort.

Lazyhater - How exactly is a comparably equipped 135i 44k? Can you price that out for me?

Cause the only thing I see is that the 135 needs the sport package to be comparable.

And the 135i doesn't have AWD (that's not necessarily a bad thing here) but it does have adaptive xenons. So you give a little, you take al ittle :)

My 135i price would be ~36-37k...and for that, I would get a superior (overall and just in my opinion) engine and a much more livable interior/sound deadening/ride quality. Again, just my opinion, but I am curious how you got 44k...

Joe

He got to $44K by adding the premium, sport, and "Cuz we're BMW, that's why" packages.
Whether it is compared to the Evo MR, the 135i or whatever, the STI is still quite expensive.

"Lazyhater - How exactly is a comparably equipped 135i 44k? Can you price that out for me?"

Base 135i: $34.9k
Metallic paint: $550
Leather: $1450
Sport Package: $1100
Navigation system: $2100
iPod and USB adapter: $400
Premium hi-fi system: $875
18" Radial Spoke 216 wheels: $1664
Anti-Theft Alarm System: $250
Short Shift Kit: $576

Total: $44,690

Edmund's fully loaded STI has all above features.

Sgude - That's why I said it was questionable...the premium package brings options that aren't even available on the STI (well, the base version has some of those options too)....so why add it?

And then there are other options, such as HD radio, that wouldn't apply here.

Again, it's about 36k comparably equipped. In the STI, you get AWD, more off-road capability, and the limited slips/diffs. You get the hatch.

In the 135 you get more ride quality/quietness/interior quality, adaptive xenons, and better gas mileage.

Otherwise, their objective performances are so darn close it's almost a wash.

But they still need to be taken to 3 different tracks and ridden hard :)

Take them all to a tight course like an autocross, a mixed course, and a more open course and see what they can do :)

Joe

"He got to $44K by adding the premium, sport, and "Cuz we're BMW, that's why" packages."

I only added stuff that the STI has, didn't add the premium package as the STI doesn't have any of that stuff. Added the Bimmer short shift kit as I feel that's what makes the Bimmer shifter comparable to the STI stock shifter that is already short throw. Didn't add the Cold Weather Package since the STI don't have heated seats. Metallic paint and leather is standard on the Subie. Feature to feature. Apple to apple.

BMW's a la carte pricing is ALWAYS much higher then Japanese bundle package.

"Sgude - That's why I said it was questionable...the premium package brings options that aren't even available on the STI (well, the base version has some of those options too)....so why add it?

And then there are other options, such as HD radio, that wouldn't apply here."

See my list above, did you see premium package and HD radio?

Point out 1 item I listed that a fully loaded $39k STI doesn't have.

"And the 135i doesn't have AWD (that's not necessarily a bad thing here) "

Whether AWD is beneficial or not is another subject all together.

But the X option on the 335i is $1900. So add that to the price of the 135i or subtract that from the STI to make them comparably equipped ;-)

No comparably equipped Euro cars are cheaper then Japanese cars in the history of man kind.

"My 135i price would be ~36-37k...and for that, I would get a superior (overall and just in my opinion) engine and a much more livable interior/sound deadening/ride quality. Again, just my opinion, but I am curious how you got 44k..."

I agreed with both those points, of course a twin turbos 3.0L I6 is superior to a 2.5L boxer 4 with a single turbo. The Bimmer engine is much smoother with a much wider power band, peak boost at 1700 rpm as opposite to the Subie's 3500 rpm. It is much more superior.

The BMW's interior is MUCH more luxurious, with a lot more sound deadening material, all material overall are much higher quality. Ride quality is not even a comparison, BMW is the best by far in the whole industry, the Subie almost has the worse ride quality of all cars.

This is why the BMW is more expensive then the Subie, BMW simply offer a much higher quality product.

BUT don't be telling me a comparably equipped 135i is cheaper then a STI. And even when they are comparably equipped, they are not the same due to the quality differences. Subie is not trying to be the same, they are offering the same performance and features, at a lower quality, at a lower price.

Gas is around $3.35 (87 octane) here in Dallas. Seems like a relative bargain by comparison!

As for the mileage, 19 mpg sounds about right. I'm guessing they could easily get 20+ if they let off the throttle a little bit, but what fun would that be?

Lazy - I think they are about comparably priced, and I think the STI is overpriced. That's what i was saying.

You are going to charge BMW for metallic paint, though it offers other paints that are free? I could easily say the BMW paint is superior (and, in fact, I believe that since Subaru paint is ridiculously thin).

I'm not going to tack on or take off $1900 for AWD vs. RWD. That's just silly. You take them as you get them.

Oh, and I guess you are "subtracting" from the price of the BMW power, full leather seats, adaptive xenon headlights, lumbar support, adjustable side bolsters, adjustable thigh support, auto-dimming mirrors? Since those "aren't included" on the STI?

Come on, even with the nickel and diming it's a cheaper alternative to the STI unless you are going option crazy....and since the STI offers just as many "extra" options, you can go crazy there too.

BTW, I jsut built a 135i with sport package, premium package, metallic paint, and a short shift kit (which is ridiculous, as it's already a short shifter)...and it came out to 41.2k with destination.

If I actually make it match up against the STI though....and it's still better equipped :)

Joe

Can I please ask why people still want to compare the 08 STI to the 135i?!

Yes, they both cost around the same amount of money.

Yes, they both put up around the same performance numbers.

BUT...can the 135i do this?(from another posting I made):

Here are some of the various seating combos that I have had in my STI(including myself) so far:

1.) 5 adults
2.) 2 adults and 2 road bicycles w/ gear
3.) 3 adults and 3 snowboards w/ gear
4.) 2 adults and 1 beagle/cocker spaniel mix in a travel crate
5.) 4 adults and 4 bags of lacrosse equipment

"Can I please ask why people still want to compare the 08 STI to the 135i?!"

Joe started it.

Joe,

STI and 135i are both made for difference audiences, very few customer cross shop between them.

They each got pros and cons, either one is better then the other one, they are just different.

One thing is for sure and I won't agree with you, the STI is made with lower quality material with less overall features, with an overall lower price. That is for sure.

"stingray454

I don't think anyone will be cross-shopping a 3/4-ton Suburban with an STI. Also, those shopping an STI (or EVO, etc.) aren't thinking "econobox," but rather "sports car." In that light the mpg numbers are acceptable; not great, but acceptable."

Of course they're not going to cross-shop. I listed the mileage my truck got while towing as how bad the mileage is for the STi. A reference point. To demonstrate to people like you who think 19 MPG from an econobox is acceptable. Not a cross-shopping comparison.

So you want to cross shop mileage comparison? Since the STi has crested $40k, how about the Corvette, which bases at $46k. It has WAY more horsepower than the STi at 430hp, and its engine is more than twice the size with twice as many cylinders, and it's EPA rated 16/26. My '02 Z06 got 17/28 stock, and now gets 32 highway, 25 average with 450hp after bolt-on mods.

You still want to try to tell me that 19 MPG from a 2.5L 4-cylinder in a tiny car like the Imprezza is "acceptable"?

By the mileage you get in your ZO6 and truck, I would say your driving is not representative of the driving the editors do.

It takes gas to make power, drive a powerful car hard and it will get bad mileage. Drive it with a light foot and you can do surprisingly well.

I'll bet you would easily get over 30 mpg in an STI.

"Why compare the STi to the 135?"

Why not? If you ask me, an STi shopper and a 135i shopper are very similar, if not the same.

Neither car is Beautiful (although I prefer the 135i's looks to the New STi)

Both have 300 HP
Both have excellent handling
Both of them are within the same price range (granted, the Bimmer will cost about 2k more to be "comparably equipped")

But here's where the BMW starts to pull away;

Stereo.
Subaru stereos are garbage (I should know, I drive a Spec B Legacy, and several of my friends have Foresters, WRX's and the like) The Bimmer's optional stereo is LIGHTYEARS better.

Interior
That Boston Leather is a heck of a lot nicer than what you get in the Subie.

Refinement
The Bimmer is quieter at highway speed. The doors and latches feel more significant in the BMW than in the Subaru.

"Most people who are looking at an STi aren't looking at a 135i" Really? are you sure? Because everyone I know who has an Evo, an STi, or a 350 z is planning on checking out the 135i. It doesn't mean they will buy it, but it is definately being considered by people who consider driving to be more than just a way to get from point a to point b (which I'm sure is true for almost anyone who reads IL)

Pricing;
Sure, you can click all the options boxes and price the BMW to 44k. But the reality is, the only option worth checking is the sport package, and the Leather. By my calculations, that brings the BMW to within 1,500 LESS than the STi in the long term fleet.

No one uses Nav every SINGLE day, it's a waste. You need a nav system? Go to Best Buy and pick up a Garmin, etc.

Also, BMW Maintenence is covered for the first few years. Subaru isn't doing that.

From a standpoint of value for Money, the BMW wins every single time.

"From a standpoint of value for Money, the BMW wins every single time."

Maybe, if you trade your car every few years and never have to pay for maintenance or repairs yourself.

Subarus run for ages with minimal repairs and inexpensive maintenance.

BMW's become huge money pits once they get a few miles on them.

tantan73- While I do agree with some of the points you make, I think that you should reread my post from 8/19.

I understand that everyone has their own definition of "value for money" but IMO, the main reason for the 08 STI being the best "value for money" is that I can buy ONE car that can do BOTH 0-60 in 4.8 AND haul all of my friends and gear on a daily basis.

In this respect, the 135i is woefully lacking.

"So you want to cross shop mileage comparison? Since the STi has crested $40k, how about the Corvette, which bases at $46k. It has WAY more horsepower than the STi at 430hp, and its engine is more than twice the size with twice as many cylinders, and it's EPA rated 16/26. My '02 Z06 got 17/28 stock, and now gets 32 highway, 25 average with 450hp after bolt-on mods.

You still want to try to tell me that 19 MPG from a 2.5L 4-cylinder in a tiny car like the Imprezza is "acceptable"? "

MPG is affected by factors such as engine configuration, weight of the car, gearing, drivetrain efficiency and aerodynamic. Price of the car has nothing to do with it.

Since you don't understand why a Vette has better MPG then the STI, let me explain.

Even though the STI seems smaller, it is actually the same weight as a Vette.

The STI drivetrain is much less efficient then the Vette due to the 4WD with 2 LSDs.

The upright body of the STI with big hood scoop and big bulky fender flares are much less efficient aerodynamically then the slippery, very low body Vette.

A big displacement NA pushrod V8 is much more efficient then a small displacement 4 bangers running 15 psi. The V8 needs much less rpm to get the car going.

The Vette has really tall gearing where the STI has really short, close ratio gearing. Which means driven enthusiastly, the Vette is at much lower rpm then the STI.

Due to all those factors, the Vette is in the matter of fact a much more gas efficient car then the STI.

"I understand that everyone has their own definition of "value for money" but IMO, the main reason for the 08 STI being the best "value for money" is that I can buy ONE car that can do BOTH 0-60 in 4.8 AND haul all of my friends and gear on a daily basis.

In this respect, the 135i is woefully lacking."

atticus22, my point exactly, but all these people have to come in and take everything out of context.

"Pricing;
Sure, you can click all the options boxes and price the BMW to 44k. But the reality is, the only option worth checking is the sport package, and the Leather. By my calculations, that brings the BMW to within 1,500 LESS than the STi in the long term fleet.

No one uses Nav every SINGLE day, it's a waste. You need a nav system? Go to Best Buy and pick up a Garmin, etc. "

tantan73, ok so you are excluding the NAV, now tells me how a $34.9k STI without NAV is $1500 more then a $34.9k base 135i + Leather: $1450 +
Sport Package: $1100 ?

"From a standpoint of value for Money, the BMW wins every single time."

Maybe, if you trade your car every few years and never have to pay for maintenance or repairs yourself.

Subarus run for ages with minimal repairs and inexpensive maintenance.

BMW's become huge money pits once they get a few miles on them."

You don't even have to bring in how they age, even brand new, BMW loses every time as far as value for Money goes.

And BMW's free maintance program is so deceiving, they give you 3 $30 oil changes and some $15 wiper blades......oh...wow, $100 worth of free stuff, it is so worth it to pay $5000 more for the car then!

"ONE car that can do BOTH 0-60 in 4.8 AND haul all of my friends and gear on a daily basis."

Agreed, the Subie definately wins in this category.

But I don't think every person that may be considering buying an STi', Evo, or 135i takes this into account either. I don't haul around a lot of gear and friends or kids, so trunk space isn't really an issue. As long as I can get a set of golf clubs back there and a duffel bag, I'm fine.

I look at it another way;

Subaru screwed up the new STi. The hatchback is just too wierd looking, bigger (I hate when cars get bigger), and it's "softer" than the car it replaces. oh yeah, the clear tail lights are the ugliest tail lights this side of a 7-series

The Bimmer gives a nod to the old 2002's and slips a big engine under the hood. Sure, it's not much lighter than a 335i, but the Subie is no featherwieght either.

Both are GREAT cars. Both are fast and exciting to drive.

But when I write a check in a few months for my next car, it's more than likely going to be for the Bimmer, and I'm on my Third Subaru (had a 2.5 RS Impreza, a WRX, and now I have a Legacy Spec B)

"ok so you are excluding the NAV, now tells me how a $34.9k STI without NAV is $1500 more then a $34.9k base 135i + Leather: $1450 +
Sport Package: $1100 ?"

You're forgetting the 2k extra for the BBS wheels. How many STi's do you see without them?

MSRP on both cars is the same ($34.9k) But most STi's are in the 39k range because they all seem to have at least the nav+bbs package.

Most 135i's I've looked at are running in the 38-39 range as well. The majority of them with just leather and sports pacakge.

My point? the 135i is usually NOT a 44k car, although it easily can be.

Maybe, if you trade your car every few years and never have to pay for maintenance or repairs yourself.-I'm leasing for three years. so this works.

Subarus run for ages with minimal repairs and inexpensive maintenance.-Couldn't agree with you more, but we're talking about an STi here, not a 2.5 N/A motor. I've got horror stories about Diffs going south after 40-50k

BMW's become huge money pits once they get a few miles on them."-Which is why you lease them.

"You don't even have to bring in how they age, even brand new, BMW loses every time as far as value for Money goes." -BMW's hold thier value far longer than Subaru's do.

"And BMW's free maintance program is so deceiving, they give you 3 $30 oil changes and some $15 wiper blades......oh...wow, $100 worth of free stuff, it is so worth it to pay $5000 more for the car then!"-All that needs to be done is change the oil. How's that maintenece schedule on that STi? Diff Service anyone?

tantan73 - you've proved my point completely - as you said yourself, they are both great cars BUT they both appeal to different demographics with varying needs - therefore, why bother to continue to compare them? Why not compare your beloved 135i to more similar cars such as the 350Z or G37, etc.?(hopefully on the 135i Blog site)

Also, if you think that the 08 STI hatchback is so wierd and ugly, then I would suggest that you write a complaint letter to Mr. Petter Solberg.

"You're forgetting the 2k extra for the BBS wheels. How many STi's do you see without them?

MSRP on both cars is the same ($34.9k) But most STi's are in the 39k range because they all seem to have at least the nav+bbs package.

Most 135i's I've looked at are running in the 38-39 range as well. The majority of them with just leather and sports pacakge.

My point? the 135i is usually NOT a 44k car, although it easily can be."

Oh now you are talking about how they "usually" comes on a dealer's lot now......

I have seen 08' STI without the BBS. If you add the BBS onto the STI, you have to add the $1660 optional wheels to the 135i.

"Subarus run for ages with minimal repairs and inexpensive maintenance.-Couldn't agree with you more, but we're talking about an STi here, not a 2.5 N/A motor. I've got horror stories about Diffs going south after 40-50k"

My 04' STi just passed 93k miles, not a single repair needed yet.

Sure if you give a STi to a 16 year old, he can break it in 10 seconds by redline launching it.

"BMW's hold thier value far longer than Subaru's do."

Disagreed 100%, huge money pits don't worth much used.

"BMW's hold thier value far longer than Subaru's do."

Disagreed 100%, huge money pits don't worth much used.

So, what You're saying is, Subaru's have a higher resale value than a BMW?

Good Christ, you're an idiot.

"I have seen 08' STI without the BBS. If you add the BBS onto the STI, you have to add the $1660 optional wheels to the 135i."

No you don't. The stock wheels are just fine.

but an STi without BBS wheels? who does that?

"Also, if you think that the 08 STI hatchback is so wierd and ugly, then I would suggest that you write a complaint letter to Mr. Petter Solberg."

please. Subaru hasn't won the Championship since 03. And it wasn't in a hatch either.

it appears that tantan73 doesn't like to get his feathers' ruffled - was it really necessary to call lazyhater an idiot? - If you want to start to get personal, who besides you uses the swear phrase "Good Christ"!!?? - did lazyhater's comments rile you up enough to use your Lord's(I am assuming you are a Christian) in vain?

In addition, you support my point exactly with your own sharp and witty retort to my Petter Solberg comment.

a.) Subaru has not won a WRC Driver's Championship since 2003
b.) the WRC Driver's Championship has been won every year since 2004 by Sebastien Loeb while driving Citroen HATCHBACKS
c.) therefore, Petter Solber SPECIFICALLY asked Subaru to redesign their WRC car to be a HATCHBACK so that he could be more competitive due to their better(for WRC purposes)aerodynamic and handling characteristics

atticus22, thank you for your support.

tantan73's arguments was illogical, pointless and rude, which is why I stop responding.

"tantan73: No you don't. The stock wheels are just fine.

but an STi without BBS wheels? who does that?"

A lot of people own the 08'+ STI without the BBS, the stock wheels on the STI is just fine also.

Comparing apple to orange is pointless.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/g35lin/Cars%20and%20Coffee/August%2024th/DSC07950.jpg

I own a 2008 without the BBS. Actually the 2 on the lot I was selecting from didn't have the BBS nor Nav.

I agree with the paint being thin, 2 chips on the hood and only 1500 miles. I have read all the reviews about which is faster, better, etc. The STI is great for me. I am not driving 3 different cars a day, but one. There is way more car for any daily driving and even for accelerated driving. I suppose if I get serious about track racing, I might notice the difference.

I personally needed the 4 door carry family along with you ability...For cross-shopping reference, I wanted an all-wheel drive car. I looked at the GX35 and the IS250. BMW's have to unreliable of a history based on my opinion and friends experience. I might have gotten the new WRX if it was available, however after reading reviews of the 2008 year, moving up to the STI made sense.

It is funny because I am sort of going along with the long term road test with Edmunds and noticing experiencing the same thing.