2002 BMW M3: 11,000 and in Need of Service

I would change it myself, but I'm compulsive-anal about these things.

For journalistic value.... every reader here knows that the BMW Dealer will be a polite, positive experience that costs you dearly.

How about an independant shop for a change (with any of your long-termers)?

And please tell me the M3 get's the finest synthetic oils from the far reaches of Mobil/Pennzoil/Castrol/Valvoline-land, and not recycled bulk....

The "-" minus sign in front of 875 means that an oil change is 875 miles PAST DUE. I have trouble understanding how such a "car enthusiast" organisation can be so ignorant.

Change the oil yourself. It is super easy. Make sure you buy proper Castrol 10W-60 oil and oil filter kit from BMW:

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=MorePartInfo&PartID=753695&siteid=214672&catalogid=4462

You will need a 36 mm socket for the oil filter housing.

I agree with the above, even doing rudimentary maintenance yourself is rewarding. It would also be nice if you post the process, what was needed and time it took to complete. I agree with wk, Castrol is necessary.

Choose a indy shop. Stick it to all of those lousy Santa Monica dealer garages. I hear too many "WTF were you thinking Edmunds!!1" comments after you guys report the hairy aftermath.

Most people won't take the time or have the tools to do it themselves since a slight majority of BMW owners are typically poseurs (don't quote me on this). Going indy is a good way to shake things up.

As WK said, the "-" means it is overdue. If we hadn't said anything, it would have been funny to see the next post saying "wow, the m3's service counter actually went up instead of down".

With 60k miles, I thought your car would have been due for Inspection II. Well, after you get your oil service and the counter is reset, it will read "Inspection 15,0000". But you will have to determine whether this car has had Inspection II performed already or not. If it has, your next service would be Inspection I.

I would love to see you guys take it to an indy shop, for both an oil change and the 60k service. Compare their price to say, a BMW dealer's quote, and blog the services. I've always been wary of taking lux cars to non-dealers, if only because they tend to try and overcharge (to the point of almost being in-line with dealers).

I'm going to go against the grain and say do an indy shop. The parts are $70 for the oil change and I'd expect them to charge you up to $150 for the whole service (which should include a variety of inspections).

Then again, those inspections probably should've been done by the place that did your brakes....and we know you don't need brake fluid, brake lines, pads, rotors...

So many DIY and report back :)

Joe

I'd go to Jiffy Lube.

Go to Summit Automotive - they are an indie BMW/Alfa shop in Marina Del Rey. I have been happy with their service.

721 Washington Blvd
Marina Del Rey, CA 90292

thrizzle, it would be hilarious to see a post in three months when they go to sell the car, advertising it on eBay as the M3 that never needs an oil change.

Don't need to change the oil, it burns oil anyway, just keep driving it hard and keep putting oil in, it would cycle thru.

jiffylube is really the best

Indy shop and not JiffyBoob.

60,000 miles may mean it's time for an Inspection II service (read: expen$ive). However, M vehicles usually have shorter service intervals than their lesser brethren.

The previous owner of this vehicle had the Inspection I service done at 23,661 miles on June 29, 2004. Hopefully, he or she did it before the car was traded into the dealership or the dealership may have done it during the CPO certification process. If not, someone should prepare the Mikes for the cost of the Insp II.

^ The "it" the previous owner hopefully did above is an Inspection II service.

I miss you, Edit! :tear:

I had a horrible experience with Jiffylube in Agoura Hills, CA (off the 101). I took my new at the time VW in for an oil change. I got it back with oil on the steering wheel, on the seat fabric, an oil leak as they did not correctly tighten the drain plug, and missing screws from the plastic engine under tray.
I complained to the manager, who then told me my car was a P.O.S! I freakin' kid you not. I then complained to Jiffy Lube corporate who refused to do anything about it.
I cannot recommend them to anyone.

I say either do it yourself or take it to an independent shop. I know a lot of people consider high end performance cars to be more difficult to maintain yourself than more mainstream cars. It will be interesting to see if this is the case with the M3. Or, using an independent shop could be instructive on finding a good shop in the LA area. By now we all know what to expect from Santa Monica dealers [cringe] and a jiffylube is a jiffylube is a jiffylube, so I think we can rule those options out.

I appreciate the updates on the M3 because a used M3 is just what an enthusiast might get if on a reasonable budget.

I am really going to go against the grain here and say take it to the dealer. You will be treated better than anywhere else (which you should because you will pay more), you know the car will be worked on promptly, and the integrity of the work is unquestionable. I had an atrocious experience with an independent shop, never again will I make that mistake.

I just took my '87 325i to a Valvoline oil change center. Fully synthetic does the trick on vintage cars...not that you have the same issue.

I say either change it yourself or take it to an independent shop that knows BMW's. DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT take it to Jiffy Lube or any other place of the same line of work. This includes Wal-mart, Oil Can Henry's Oil Stop... They are not equipped or trained to properly do a vehicle like a BMW. The people that work there are not very well trained and turn over is very high. It is also likely they won't stock the correct filter (not a problem if you supply it yourself). You might also be stuck with whatever bulk dino oil is being used as the flavor of the day. Wal-mart has a good selection of all the synthetics, but I doubt that Jiffy Lube or another stand-alone quick lube shop would have such a selection as Wal-mart. I used to work in a Wal-mart lube shop and have seen first hand what goes on. I cringed if any thing more expensive than a Lexus ES300 pulled in. I usually sent them away. Things like BMW's and other cars that had fancy canister filters and required non-standard issue tools to work on were also instant turn aways.

If you own a Geo Metro, Wal-mart works great! Heck even Powerstrokes and Duramaxes were also no problem. Also the usual run of the mill vehicles were generally no problem. Anyway, I think you would be safer either doing it yourself or finding an independent shop to do it. The dealer is also a good choice, and if the price is right, then why not??? It's a BMW dealer and that's what they are trained to do right?

BMW Dealership or an Independent BMW Specialist, please. I would NEVER go to a quick lube place, especially with a car this picky!

I think you guys just want all of us to tell you not to do it yourself and give you a free pass. Sorry! You should do it yourself.

Don't take it to the dealer, as we all know how that goes, and there are already lots of posts on it. Take it to an indy shop. Doing an oil change yourself is a waste of time and effort. Its a messy dirty job, and you don't save a significant amount of money. Everything else I'd do myself, but oil changes, let someone else deal with the hassle.

If the M3 is like my 330i, it seems to think that it only needs an oil change every 15,000 miles. In city driving (especially with lead-footed car guys at the wheel) this is insane. I would be changing it at least twice that often.

Oh, and take it to an independent shop. I found one locally that I'm a big fan of, and I know that every area has a great German car shop. You just have to find them.

Jiffy Lube or any place like that is a total non-starter. I'm really wondering about you guys. The brakes -- cool and nice job (even though you didn't need them), but the fact that you're even considering a place like Jiffy Lube really makes me wonder if you guys even care. As enthusiasts, you should ALREADY know better than to go there.
Take it to an indy shop or do it yourself. I take my 325i to the dealer while it is under warranty, but go to an indy shop for its intermediate (7,500 mile) oil change. They're half the price of the dealer and use the same parts. Oh -- please don't go for 11-15K miles between oil changes. Yikes!

It may be a messy, dirty job if the car is not designed for DIY, such as Accord or Altima. But the E46 BMW is extremely clean and easy -- you could do it in a suit and your white shirt would stay clean. As a matter of fact, years ago I did that after work in my office parking lot -- clean white shirt and everything. This car is designed well, so use it!

Unlike lesser cars everything is made of quality metal, so all fasteners are very easy to undo and everything stays tight and rust-free for decades.

I would change it myself. did it on my eclipse, do it on my altima, and will be doing it on the triumph as well. only time i head to the dealer to get it serviced is when it's something out of my know-how

I vote for an independent BMW (or at least German car) shop with a good rep (ask around). In my experience, changing the oil yourself is an overrated, time consuming experience. I take my BMW to an independent German car shop that has treated me very well. I don't get the fancy wait area, free food, and wireless like at the dealer, but the cost isn't as crazy. And yes, as was pointed out, the - symbol means it's PAST due for that change. If it just says oil service, an Inspection is not due. It actually says Inspection in that case. The next one will likely be an Inspection visit.

DIY!

I can't believe anyone takes it to Jiffy Lube after the news exposed the scams they pull and all the complaints to BBB. Taking it there would be like an endorsement.

Put me down for the local indy BMW shop. They're usually great little shops with outstanding techs.

My dad has an 'old' Z3 he bought for his 'mid-life crisis/really p*ss off mom' car and takes it to the local shop religiously.

I can't believe I'm the first to catch this:

"Well the time is creaping up."

Should be "creeping". Carry on. :)

With synthetic oil, 15k miles or 1yr is fine for oil change interval. If you drive the car hard, you burn gas faster and the counter will tick down faster -- as you see the Edmunds car ticked down in 11k.

Changing oil at 7k is not necessary and is really just a paranoid thing that a lot of owners do because they don't know anything about oil. A dark colored oil does not mean it is bad - new oil can turn dark in a month. The only sure way to determine if it's worth spending the time and money to do interemediate oil changes is to send an oil sample to Blackstone Labs for an oil analysis. It costs about $30 and they can tell you whether the oil has plenty of life left or not, plus give you a heads up if they see contamination in the oil.

M_thrizzle -

I have to disagree, personally. And I drive ~15k on my oil right now....but I drive 15k in about 7 months running AMSOIL (which has a higher additive package than most synthetics, leading it to longer life).

15k in one year is most likely not enough driving to burn off the moisture and fuel accumulation in the oil that shortens it's life.

On an engine like this (ultra high performance, high revving), I think 10k would be the upper limit of "safe" (meaning you might be able to stretch it to 12-13k, but 10k is consistently safe).

As you said, the only way to find out is by analysis. Blackstone has lost alot of credibility online due to weird calibrations and questionable results....and I've used them myself.

Joe

Meh.

Joe,
Your concerns are still based on personal beliefs without much proof behind your practices. Even though BMW's indicators start at 15k, they almost always count down faster (they are based on fuel consumption). The LT M3's service indicator ticked down to 0 in 10,125 mi, which is in your 'safe' zone. If Edmunds had changed the oil halfway through - when the counter showed 7500 mi - the new oil would have only been used for 3000 mi before the indicator hit 0. Since I only drive about 7k miles/yr in my M3, I end up changing the oil after a year and not based on mileage.

Manufacturers would not specify an OCI longer than an oil's usable life. In fact, they build in a factor of safety so there is still some usable life beyond the change interval. Lots of M3 and other BMW owners follow the BMW OCI without issue.

Your comment of "15k in one year is most likely not enough driving to burn off the moisture" is not really correct. Annual mileage does not directly correlate to moisture burn-off. It is more a factor of oil temps and driving a car for >15-20 min will get the oil hot enough to burn off the moisture. As for debris and other contaminants that build up over time, oils have greatly improved over the last 20-30 years, and have much better debris trapping capacities while retaining their lubricity over time.

M_thrizzle,

I don't think we are disagreeing overall. I was saying more that I disagree with your general comments from a "applies to all" standpoint.

Plenty of cars DO need more frequent oil changes (even with synthetics) than even 10k. For instance, alot of oil analysis on the Audi RS4 or BMW 335i was showing questionable activity on some cars after only 3k or 5k miles.

Regarding moisture burnoff. I don't think I was clear enough, and maybe i'm un-edu-ma-cated in this area. From what I understand, accumulated moisture in oil will turn acidic. It will begin to break-down the oil. If it was burned off quickly, it would not. Hence, people like my father who do several cold starts a year to drive his Boxster into the driveway, stop, wash car, start, drive back into the garage probably need a more frequent oil change than once a year...even though he only drives < 5k per year.

Lastly, just a comment on one of your comments, "Your concerns are still based on personal beliefs without much proof behind your practices."

I found that somewhat baseless when responding to someone who is quoting his own oil analyses and who is practicing extended oil change intervals. My car is driven under near-ideal circumstances for long life of an oil (about 90 minutes of moderate RPM driving a day on a N/A Honda engine in good working condition) and using a high quality, high TBN oil I think 15k is about the "max" I could strech it, without getting into adding a bypass filter/etc.

Joe

Don't change it. Let's see how long it goes. I think this whole 'oil change' industry is a scam, anyway.