2008 Pontiac G8 GT: Six days waiting

No more thunder from down under for now? :( F41L

jdub sounds right. Are there just so many customers where you are that the dealers don't care if they ever see a specific customer again?

Jdub i think you are correct. It doesnt matter what car they took in they seem to get horrible customer service no matter which manufacturer it is. Stay away from California dealerships I guess.

I wonder if these take a long time because they aren't necessary for your every day drive to work. That is, there are other cars you can take.

In my case, if my car is in the shop, I am hounding them to get it fixed because I only have access to 1 car, and my life needs a car badly. I could never wait 6 days.

doughtheeng,

They don't know we have a fleet of cars at our disposal and I follow up as if it's my car.

It should also be noted that once they determined that it was going to have to stay there, I was offered a rental.

-mike

Mike, I feel for your experience. I have found Pontiac service to be the absolute worst. They NEVER knew what was going on and I was lied to constantly. For example (and this is just one example, there are like fifty to choose from), there was a problem with the rotor (it was bent), on my GTO after 8000 miles. I went to the dealer, and it's squealing like crazy in front of the mechanic. I go, 'can you hear that??' I mean, people were turning around to see what the squeal was. "No", he said, staring at me. I even freaking tape recorded the sound and played it back to him. I go, "do you hear it NOW?" "No," he said, right to me.

After this, and a myriad of other headaches and lies, I couldn't take it anymore and called Pontiac. First, they wouldn't tell me how to contact the regional manager. Then I finally got to speak to someone (in India, of course), and he didn't speak english. Finally, I got from him that the manufacturer won't do anything but support the dealership. I asked him, "what if the dealer is lying?" He finally said that it's my problem.

This, along with reliability issues, made me promptly sell my car. Never a Pontiac again, not for me.

Time to trade this in for a Nissan Maxima.

It's reading things like this that makes me think buying my first American-made car is a bad idea. That and my parents 1st American-made vehicle in 30 years (a 2007 Tahoe) having the transmission die at 10,000 miles.

Mike,

I tried to look up the part on AC Delco's website. I found two parts that related to the brake system, and I don't think either of these are what you need.

PT1649 is a brake pedal sensor.
PT2060 is a power brake relay.

Neither of those sound like what you want. Sucks.

You could also call 1-800-ACDELCO and ask to talk to someone in Tech support. Those guys have all been working in parts for about 1 million years and if there is a part available, they can tell you what it is.

Good luck.

A brake sensor causing traction control problems? I don't think so.

I'm just a shade tree mechanic, but I'm going to bet a bad brake sensor isn't causing the problem.

you need brake sensors for traction control. ABS and traction control systems work hand in hand. In fact, you need ABS to have traction control.

jasond52 -- And here I am thinking that when the tranny on my former Catera crapped at 80K miles that it was "early." 10K miles? Yowza.

Pontiac should be bending over backwards to fix this, the car that could make them relevant again. It is unbelievable the shortsightedness of some dealerships and manufacturers.

"you need brake sensors for traction control. ABS and traction control systems work hand in hand."

Correct.
-mike

So... has any of Edmunds.com current Long-Term GM fleet NOT experienced a significant or time-consuming mechanical or electronic failure?

I think it depends on the particular dealership, not necessarily the car manufacturer. I own three Fords, and as such I have been to probably a dozen Ford dealerships in the area in the past six years for both sales and service. In the end I have only found one that tries to consistently do a good job.

The reason I think InsideLine's review of their dealership experiences is important is that I believe most people don't have the time to try out all the dealerships in a 50 mile radius to figure out which one will consistently give good service. This saves people (in the LA area, anyway) the hassle of spending six years looking for a decent dealership.

I also think part of the problem is similar to that of the Smart. That is, it's still so new in the States that perhaps not all the parts are yet readily available.

Speaking of, I don't remember there being an update on the repair of the Fortwo after being rear-ended... (?)

"you need brake sensors for traction control. ABS and traction control systems work hand in hand. In fact, you need ABS to have traction control."

100% true....in fact not only do you need ABS for traction control, but also for Vehicle Stability Control (VSC).

I find it hard to believe they don't have the part number for the brake sensor. I'm sure GM uses the same part on most of their other Vehicles.

So... has any of Edmunds.com current Long-Term GM fleet NOT experienced a significant or time-consuming mechanical or electronic failure?

Ya know, the CTS is up next.

The fact that a majority of the GM's in this fleet have had issues that put them at the dealer, really isn't demonstrating any strides in reliability.

@cx7lover - well, I guess 1 out of 5 without a significant failure is better than 0 out of 5. Obviously, I agree, this random sampling of 5 vehicles sure isn't helping any images of (non) reliability.

The Silverado issue was serious but its hard to single out GM when their Fit had to be towed after the reverse gear failed. The Aura's steering never failed, it just didnt perform to their expectations and required servicing. I dont believe the SRX, Tahoe, CTS or Enclave have had any significant reliability issues. Doesnt sound like "all" their GM vehicles have had issues to me. If I'm not mistaken the C300, Q7 and Veracruz have spent time at the dealer for repairs.

Unless its unsafe to drive the car I dont see why you wouldnt just bring it back when the component comes in. Why leave it at the dealer for 6 days?

"The fact that a majority of the GM's in this fleet have had issues that put them at the dealer, really isn't demonstrating any strides in reliability."

I would say at least 50% of the cars in the fleet have spent time at the dealer for warranty repairs.

Yes, and 35% of those we're probably GM's. The Enclave had a PS pump that cut in and out on mountain roads, which if it would have caught the driver completely off guard, could have KILLED them all. The steering still had shudders and had a rubbery feel, ALL recent GM's have had issues with steering. The C300 had a sunroof issue- Wow, that equals up to having the power steering cut in and out, right? The VC was purely a fluke, the Aura's steering issue on the other hand, is well known. Why are you making excuses for GM? Only 1 GM in this fleet has not been to the dealer for some sort of issue, steering cutting in and out, transmissions leaving people stranded, Two major issues, and if they did not fix the design issue, they will come back.

I'd call the Enclave's failure the most serious of the bunch, 1487, and a hard one to overlook.

Your point is well taken about the Aura. But this did mean several days out of service, and many owners may have handled the situation similarly. Also, the recent Camry, Accord, Altima, and Sonata have not yet or did not have such trouble, IIRC.

Certainly, these tests are just ONE data point. But the experience is valid, and of the current GM fleet, its 1 in 5 without fairly significant problems.

"I'd call the Enclave's failure the most serious of the bunch, 1487, and a hard one to overlook."

What happened to Enclave? I dont remember.

"Certainly, these tests are just ONE data point. But the experience is valid, and of the current GM fleet, its 1 in 5 without fairly significant problems."

To be honest I dont count problems that can be addressed at a service visit as "significant". GM has more vehicles in the fleet than any other manufacturer so its kind of hard to compare them to other full line manufacturers. If they had 4 Fords or 4 Toyotas it would be a litle easier to gauge how they stack up. Its interesting that so much is made out of these "major" problems as if vehicles in the fleet from Honda, MB, Audi, BMW and Hyundai havent had warranty repairs. With the exception of the Accord and camry there arent many vehicles in their fleet that havent needed repairs.

"The C300 had a sunroof issue- Wow, that equals up to having the power steering cut in and out, right? "

a statement was made about "time consuming" repairs and if I remember correctly the C300 was out of service for several days waiting for parts. I didnt say the issue was dangerous. PLease learn to read and comprehend. We all know where you stand so there is no need to comment. You hate all GM vehicles and recommend that everyone go get a Mazda. We got it by now. Thanks.

"Only 1 GM in this fleet has not been to the dealer for some sort of issue, steering cutting in and out, transmissions leaving people stranded, Two major issues, and if they did not fix the design issue, they will come back."

CTS and G8 have had no steering or tranny issues. the Tahoe and SRX just left the fleet and had no such issues. Learn to count please.

"The VC was purely a fluke"

Of course it was. Every problem with a non GM vehicle is a fluke. Every problem with a GM vehicle is a sign of systematic corruption and incompetence within GM. I'm glad you cleared that up. Meanwhile the Malibu just ranked #1 in its class in initial quality. My POS Aura has had no tranny or steering problems thus far. Only a sunroof shade rattle and that wasnt quite life threatening so I wasnt too mad about it.

Give it some time 1487! They both haven't hit the 14K mark yet. And I was talking about the CURRENT fleet, not past-fleet vehicles.

The Enclaves Power Steering went out on in a mountain, a curvy area, where PS would be VERY crucial in a heavy vehicle, and it's not that was failing, it's that it was cutting in and out, causing a very inconsistent and dangerous situation.

How many VC owners have you heard of with the A/C making noises and then just dying?

How many Aura owners or Enclave/Acaida/Outlook owners have you heard of complaining about failing PS pump or issues with the PS?

Issues with the transmission? MORE than enough, I linked several threads where owners we're having issues with the PS and the transmission.

The time down matters, but what it was down FOR matters as well. Transmission? Power Steering? OR A/C (that seems to have affected this ONE VC) and a sunroof rattle? The problem progressed on and on for the Aura, first it was abnormal noise, then it was shuddering and a rubbery feel, any later and who knows what could have happened.

Please put your GM pom poms down, your bias is showing.

Not everyone should buy a Mazda, never said that, no need to put words in my mouth to get your point across.

How many miles on that POS?

"The Enclaves Power Steering went out on in a mountain, a curvy area, where PS would be VERY crucial in a heavy vehicle, and it's not that was failing, it's that it was cutting in and out, causing a very inconsistent and dangerous situation."

was the vehicle towed? The post said the PS was operable when the vehicle was moving which means that it could be steered home safely. The author never stated that the Enclave's failure endangered their family. You added that on your own.

"How many VC owners have you heard of with the A/C making noises and then just dying? "

About as many as the number of Silverado owners you can name personally who have had bad trannies. I dont even know any VC owners. You are evaluating overall GM quality based on this test fleet so I can only surmise that we should do the same with Honda and Hyundai. 50% of Hondas are going to have failed reverse gears and 100% of Hyundais will have AC that wont last 6 months. Just trying to adopt some of your sound "logic".

"How many Aura owners or Enclave/Acaida/Outlook owners have you heard of complaining about failing PS pump or issues with the PS? "

None aside from the IL editors. I'm sure you know dozens though because you are obsessed with trolling for GM vehicle problems on owner sites.

"The problem progressed on and on for the Aura, first it was abnormal noise, then it was shuddering and a rubbery feel, any later and who knows what could have happened."

So you are arguning that even though the PS never failed it was about to fail because IL editors didnt like the feel? Got it. Not only are you smart, you are able to see into the future. Truly a man of many talents. Just so you know, a steering rack that "feels funny" doesnt qualify as a catastrophic mechanical failure. You have a penchant for hyperbole when it comes to talking about GM quality.

"How many miles on that POS?"

You talking about my car? Because you have a vendetta against GM my car is now a POS? Wow. My POS only has 8300 miles. The steering rack will probably fall out on the highway within weeks.

"Please put your GM pom poms down, your bias is showing."

If Mr. Objectivity says so it must be true. I point out that the G8 and Aura havent had any mechanical problems that have inhibited their ability to transport people and you say that is "bias". Perhaps you should look up bias before using that word again.

So you're going to try and capitalize on something I said, because you said it first?

"My POS Aura", three posts up.

I said ISSUES/FAILURES, NOT just failures, and NOT just the Aura. GET IT TOGETHER.

'"I called Santa Monica Chevy a few hours after the tow truck left to see if they had a chance to look at the truck. Our service advisor had said earlier that they may get to it that day, but most likely it would be Tuesday morning. I took the chance and called anyways. To my surprise they had looked at it and he was frank with his diagnosis:

"We've had a rash of these lately. The input housing busting as the mileage gets up there. It should be ready by Wednesday."'

So, "a rash of these lately", does that compute to, just in the fleet??? Or how many GM-Fans you know with a Silverado?

"was the vehicle towed? The post said the PS was operable when the vehicle was moving which means that it could be steered home safely. The author never stated that the Enclave's failure endangered their family. You added that on your own."
HA!
"Now I hadn't exactly planned on shredding it in the Buick, but the immanent deterioration of the power steering assist doomed any plans for remotely spirited driving.

The best part? The failure wasn't comprehensive. Around center there remained enough power assist to lure me into a corner with some enthusiasm, only to result in a complete lack of assist once the road began to truly bend and require more steering input. It was a deadly combination that caught me off guard on several occasions. And when the tires weren't rolling, steering was impossible. "

DEADLY, Isn't that what I said? Dangerous? Where is the debate about the steering failing and causing a DANGEROUS situation? I guess you can add-in your "which means" and it's ok?

A steering rack that "Feels Funny" can progress onto a rack "feels funny and inconsistent" and so on. And a clunking transmission can progress onto a transmission that FAILS to shift, leaving the truck TOTALLY inoperable. See how things can LEAD to failures?

PLEASE get a grip! I base my opinions on GM's lack of reliability on VARIOUS sources, not just this test fleet.

CX7 Lover, you can go on to any car website and find that someone is having a problem with there cars, it is just life. The problem with the transmissions and steering were a little concerning to me, but this is the type of problems you run into when you buy a car in the first model year. That is why the aura came out before the malibu.

This is just like the first year toyota carmy's having problems with there transmissions, and the toyota tundra and the camshaft.

For years americans made cars that weren't as dependable, but times have changed. Now when you here that one of there cars have problems we jump to conclusions. Every car on the road has problems the first model year. The srx didn't have any problems because it was 4 years old.

It is funny that a lot of Gm cars have been having small problems, but this is just one out of many. But I don't blame you I blame the media for bring to light everything wrong with americans cars, and sugar coating Japenese cars. Cars will always have problems in the first model year.

That's just it, this is NOT the first year of issues with GM's steering systems, the G6 and Malibu both had steering issues, GM's way of handling it is to slap a band aid on it and not fix the problem.

"That's just it, this is NOT the first year of issues with GM's steering systems, the G6 and Malibu both had steering issues, GM's way of handling it is to slap a band aid on it and not fix the problem."

And that is Toyota doing about its tranny problems? Interstingly enough some of the very models you are claiming have rampant reliability problems are recommended by CR while the Camry V6 and some version of the Tundra and Lexus GS are not recommended. You need to provide some type of proof of these widespread problems if you want to be taken seriously. Once again I will state the steering on the Aura never actually stopped working. The Enclave is the only product out of all the ones IL has in their fleet or has had recently that has actually experienced some sort of operational failure of the steering system. How is that proof of widespread poor reliability? These vehicles are tested over 25k+ miles and all that counts is what there record is at the end of that time period. If the average GM vehicle gets one warranty repair in the first 25k-30k miles I think that puts them close to the industry average. I know someone who had a 2005 3 and he had more issues in his first 8k miles than I have had in my first 8k miles. Seeing as though sales of all of GM's epsilon cars are up this year (and the G6 is in its 4th year) I would say word of these widespread quality problems isn't getting out. You spend a lot of time talking about info you garner from internet boards. If you look at Edmunds Consumer Ratings you will see the low quality Malibu is ranked #1 amongst midsize cars. The Camry is dead last and the Accord is close to the bottom. I looked through some of the comments for the 2008 Malibu and Aura and saw nothing related to steeting problems. For the record the Aura and G6 are rated higher by owners than the Camry or Accord.

cx7lover only trolls and reports on GM forums. He does not spend any time researching issues with Toyota, Honda, and Mazda vehicles. It's typical one side reporting and holds little water. Basically his stance is this: If any GM car has a problem, then all GM vehicles are junk. If any non-GM product has a problem, it's just an anomaly.

If you are not a brand fanboy and don't have any issues with your car, you are unlikely to join and post on a car specific forum. If I hadn't had such a lemon of a Mazda, I would've never checked out a Mazda forum. I did it out of frustration because both the dealer and Mazda told me to go to hell and I wanted to see if other owners had similar issues. They did. The interesting thing was that the fanboys told the people with legitimate issues to stop complaining as if we were conjuring up mechanical failures for no reason. Pretty interesting.

1487 CR=worthless=like your post

chavis, hmm, to be quite blunt, are you dense or something? I'm not a member of ANY GM forum, you have to be a member and POST to be a troll(there is no other WAY to be a troll), for someone that's smart enough to buy a car another car that he is so unhappy with after he got a lemon, I thought you would have known that.

Toyota, Mazda, And Honda, are NOT what we're talking about, but both of you have nothing productive to say so you shoot off on other subjects, grabbing at straws. OMG well Honda had this issue so GM is ok too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You study Acadia forums and troll at InsideLine- that was my inference but I see you need things to be spelled out for you. You can look up forum posts from any car produced today and find unhappy owners of problematic vehicles. You are the only person here who will not acknowledge this fact. Who else takes a copious amount time to research vehicles they have already deemed subpar? You are obsessed.

Anyway, the fact of the matter is that all cars have the ability to be problematic. Let me try to simplify this for you- if car #22 off the line is a lemon, does that mean cars #21 and #23 will be lemons? The answer is NO. Can you comprehend this? I know it is hard for you but please put on your thinking cap and close your eyes really really tight. I can prove this as my first car was a complete lemon and my second car is completely problem free. Now, if I went on a personal crusade to prove all Mazdas are garbage, I'd be wrong. However, it is okay to state that all GM cars are trash, correct? The notion that all cars coming from General Motors are crap is as silly as your posts.

" Toyota, Mazda, And Honda, are NOT what we're talking about, but both of you have nothing productive to say so you shoot off on other subjects, grabbing at straws"

You just proved my point. Your issue is that you can only focus on one company at a time with no scope of persepctive. You are able to analyze GM only in a vacuum which makes very little sense as there are no other reference points. That's like reporting problems-per- vehicle statisitics with no regard to the industry average.

Wow, nothing productive? And what helpful information are your producing sir?

"...GM's way of handling it is to slap a band aid on it and not fix the problem."

Should we consider that insightful, productive information? Where are the facts to support your far reaching conjecture? I didn't think talking out of one's backside could be considered relevant or truthful.

1487 just gave you plenty of productive information but you are unable to process anything to does not agree with your ridiculous stance.

"Toyota, Mazda, And Honda, are NOT what we're talking about, but both of you have nothing productive to say so you shoot off on other subjects, grabbing at straws. OMG well Honda had this issue so GM is ok too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I would say other automaker's quality is very relevant to the conversation. You are inferring that GM is the only automaker making less than perfect vehicles. You are also inferring that problems with GM vehicles are signs of poor design and construction while problems with other cars shoule be dimissed. You cannot single out GM without talking about these issues in context. The LT fleet here at IL shows that few cars are 100% perfect mechanically so your attempts to pretend GM's quality is far worse than others are futile.

Care to explain why GM's 3 midsize offerings are rated higher by owners than the Accord or Camry? Care to explain why few, if any, owners mentioned steering problems? CAre to explain why some Camry owners are saying the 2008 camry is the worst quality Toyota they have ever owned and are questioning how Toyota could have allowed such a faulty transmission to be installed? Since you spend a lot of time looking for consumer complaints I'm sure you are aware that many owners of some of the most vaunted import nameplates aren't too happy. You are quick to reference owner experiences when it fits your agenda but you have NEVER responded when I asked you to explain the excellent consumer ratings many GM vehicles have on edmunds.com.

I dont put much stock in CR simply because a vehicle that doesnt get their recommended rating or highest reliability score isnt necessarily unreliable. All cars are generally reliable today and CR is simply splitting hairs to divide the extremely reliable from the very reliable. That said, some of the GM vehicles you are criticizing have similar reliability ratings to import vehicles.

Fellas, been reading the posts here as I am really interested in this Pontiac. I'll preface everything by saying that I would only consider making this purchase because the car is basically an import, except for the V8 block as we all know. Sorry to state, I would never buy another GM-built car again and there are several reasons why. I'll get to those a bit later.

Regarding CX7lover's comments - lover, you DO know that CR does not recommend the CX-7 due to below average reliability, right? Look, I have a 2003 Mazda6 and as a first year model it has had some issues: 1) fan control module was recalled, then that replacement module was recalled because it was also defective (not a very good first impression), 2) the rotors became warped at 8000 miles and I had to pay for new pads as the deadlership refused to do more than turn them at no charge (Mazda headquarters in Irvine never responded to my phone calls and complaints about this and I live about five miles away), 3) the transmission which is the only Japanese-built part of the car has been flashed twice because it jerks violently in 2nd gear and this still has not resolved the problem, 4) plug misfires after 70,000 miles were not just old plugs, but also 3 bad coils that resulted in more than $600 in repairs...a pretty expensive tune-up for an $18,000 V6. Would have done it myself but I don't enjoy working on cars enough to take the intake manifold and half the engine apart in order to repalce rear plugs.

I take great care of this car, but I've been disappointed. It is built by Ford, but even the Japanese tranny has issues, so I guess we can say that just about any vehicle has a chance of disappointing us, but my major issue is with the service provided by manufacturers and dealerships. Mazda is not very responsive. GM is the worst in this regard. Bottom line, if the car has problems and the thing is under warranty, I expect the car maker to give enough care about its reputation and my future business to get a fix out there and to get it done right THE FIRST TIME. GM could not do this for me after I purchased two brand new cars: 95 Cavalier and 2000 Olds Alero.

The Cav was my college car, and while it was basic wheels, it was also new. I never expected the fuel pump to go bad in a McDonald's drive thru in the first week of ownership. The Olds was not too awful, but its fuel pump went bad after about 45,000 miles. Both times they just died without warning, leaving me stranded. So I am waiting for 3 HOURS...3 HOURS on the freeway (not more than 10 miles from an Olds deadership) waiting for GM to send their roadside assistance tow. What was up with that? Then GM decided to shut down the Olds division entirely...which REALLY HELPED WITH THE RESALE VALUE OF MY ALERO. Gee, thanks GM...like the residual on your cars isn't bad enough already????

So, I am thinking do I really want to run the risk of buying a G8 if marginal brands like Pontiac or Saturn might go the way of Oldsmobile? What is GM sells off Hummer and abandons Pontiac for cost cutting? It constitutes less than 2% of the US market. Also, aside from the poor reliability experiences I've had with GM cars, is their roadside assistance or service at dealerships any better than I recall from the past? Each visit I made for service was a hassle with those people. They didn't seem to care that GM was literally shutting down a division and laying people off.

At a minimum, my Mazda has never left me stranded. All things being equal SERVICE-wise, whether GM or Mazda, I'd prefer to have my car be reliable and not deal with break downs to begin with. Are we all in agreement? And has GM done ANYTHING to really get back former customers like me? If I wanted a boring, but very reliable car I might buy a Toyota. Until that time, I'll keep searching for a fun and fairly reliable car that will allow me to have my cake and eat it, too. This aussie build car might do it for me were it not for GM's ambivalence about customer satisfaction. They only seem to care when losing market share.

"GM is the worst in this regard. Bottom line, if the car has problems and the thing is under warranty, I expect the car maker to give enough care about its reputation and my future business to get a fix out there and to get it done right THE FIRST TIME. GM could not do this for me after I purchased two brand new cars: 95 Cavalier and 2000 Olds Alero."

It all depends on the dealer. I had an Alero and every issue was handled under warranty without hassle. You need to find a better dealer. On top of that the current crop of GM vehicles are generally on newer platforms that the vehicles you owned and have little to do with those cars. Only the W and G platform cars are old at this point and many of those cars are known to be high quality.