2008 Cadillac CTS: Subscriptions, Subscriptions

"But she surprises herself for liking this one. "If only it didn't have some much cheesy chrome..." she mused, pointing to the plethora of shiny rings and bezels inside."

Good call. Cadillac has a problem with chromifying their cars. The CTS-V is the best example of this - it may be able to do a sub-8 minute Nurburgring, but it looks far more at home in 50 Cent's entourage.

I want the choice of lifetime vs. monthly *after* a trial period, like Tivo used to do it. The closest I found is Mini's choice of factory Sirius w/lifetime vs. dealer accessory Sirius w/monthly. That puts breakeven around 2.5 to 3 years. The problem arises when you aren't really sure you want Sirius in the first place.

"How many of you are re-upping for this stuff once the trial period ends? How many are not? Would you rather see it priced into the vehilce option cost, or does the monthly strategy with opt-out possibilities seem better?"

I prefer the priced-into-the-option cost strategy - I like how BMW takes this approach as opposed to most. The traffic service is included for the life of the vehicle (or sooner if BMW ever terms their agreement with Clear Channel) when you order Nav. BMW Assist is included for 4 years, although Concierge Service is extra. Bluetooth should be on the Caddy (I know, '09...) and make the stupid On-Star calling minutes "feature" (read: revenue center) utterly redundant. Not to mention 100 minutes for $39.95 is a complete rip-off. Same for the turn-by-turn nav... why would you have that with the built-in nav system?

Based on the prices you listed Dan, BMW includes about $1400 worth of services over 4 years in the price of the car (not including the free maintenance as well) that you have to pay extra for on the Caddy. That number would be reduced by about $230 if GM still includes the first year of On-Star (at $18.95/month) for free.

The XM traffic data is going to be the same for all cars. I wouldnt trust it but the automakers are hyping it up. I have XM radio and the traffic reports delivered 24/7 are not always accurate.

"Based on the prices you listed Dan, BMW includes about $1400 worth of services over 4 years in the price of the car (not including the free maintenance as well) that you have to pay extra for on the Caddy. "

Onstar is free for one year.

Why is chrome trim "cheesy" on American cars but not on Audis or VWs? Audi has been one of the leaders in putting shiny trim pieces in interiors. When they started it the press was impressed but when Cadillac follows suit they are derided.

"Cadillac has a problem with chromifying their cars. The CTS-V is the best example of this - it may be able to do a sub-8 minute Nurburgring, but it looks far more at home in 50 Cent's entourage."

The CTS-V has little chrome inside or out. The interior is mostly black.

1487,

My comments were more relating to the front end of the CTS-V. I love the car, but they can keep the grill/grill trim.

"If only it didn't have some much cheesy chrome..." she mused, pointing to the plethora of shiny rings and bezels inside"

"Good call. Cadillac has a problem with chromifying their cars. The CTS-V is the best example of this - it may be able to do a sub-8 minute Nurburgring, but it looks far more at home in 50 Cent's entourage."

The only difference between the CTS and CTS-V in terms of brightwork is the mesh grille on the V. Interesting enough, 50 Cent has endorsed the G8 which is completely DEVOID of chrome except for badges and tailpipes. I still find it interesting that black rappers are viewed as the only group of people who admire chrome trim on vehicles. Just about every new Escalade I see is driven by a 50+ year old white person. And 95% have the 22" chrome wheel option.

I distinctly remember when very few European or Japanese cars featured a lot of chrome in the '90s. Now, you find chrome splattered all over them (seen the new Accord's exterior?) in the most untasteful fashion. Check any Infiniti, Audi, Lexus, Mazda and VW and call me in the morning. I love when American cars get a bad rap based on falacious facts.

I hate all the monthly fees as well (Ohh and I specially hate Xbox Live for making you call them to cancel it when you can do everything else online).

I really wish the traffic data was better, I have 4 ways to go home that are all within 5 minutes of each other, and have to guess which way will be fastest everyday. I check google's traffic, MSN's, and Traffic.com, as well as the radio. Unforautnly in addition with disagree with each other, its rare that any of them are acutaly right.

Re OnStar

They will offer promotional minutes that are half the price of the standard package before your initial new car grace period expires. I brought 100 minutes for my parent's Impala for $16.99 a few months ago.

XM Nav traffic makes little sense in urban environments. If you live in a real city that has traffic problems, you will already know when the roads are jammed. It makes more sense in areas that experience inconsistant traffic levels and I doubt LA qualifies.

like a drug dealer, they get you hooked and make their money on the comback!

Regarding real-time traffic: the output is only as good as the input. From what I've seen of online traffic maps, the input isn't up to par yet. They can only play the cards they're dealt.

Regarding monthlies vs lifetime: Sirius offers a lifetime membership option, which you can purchase at any time. Otherwise, you're free to use whatever monthly plan you'd like. I think that's pretty fair. I'm curious to see what happens after the merger, though!

Regarding monthly fees in general: I don't like paying them, but I sure would like to earn them! I think it's a great business model. Blizzard (video game company) has the best thing going, I think. Over nine million subscribers, each paying a monthly fee of $13-$15 to play World of Warcraft. WOW! (No pun intended.) I want that kind of money. :D

No, dougtheeng, you were right about the interior of the CTS-V. Just look at the interior photo gallery at cadillac.com.

I'm disappointed to hear that XM Traffic isn't up to par. Otherwise, $3.95 is surprisingly reasonable, assuming you actually like XM programming. On-Star sounds like a pretty big rip-off. I hadn't realized what they're charging for their various services. I don't know that I'd pay for any of it.

"Why is chrome trim "cheesy" on American cars but not on Audis or VWs? Audi has been one of the leaders in putting shiny trim pieces in interiors."

My wife's comment certainly does not encompass all American cars. But in the case of the CTS, her complaints include: chrome trim is overused (too many locations, surface area over which it is applied is too large in many of them); reflectivity is too high.

In the Audi A6 and A5, to cite specific examples, the "shiny" bits aren't as brilliant and they manage the look of polished metal (hand-worn, if you will) and look less like chrome-plated plastic. They are also more sparingly used.

I agree that a bit of metal trim really sets-off an interior, but the trick is to use just the right amount and go easy on the mirror-reflective surfaces. The CTS has a beautifully designed interior, but I agree with my wife on this one: the level of flash is just a bit too high.

There are Onstar equipped vehicles that don't have a navigation system that Turn-by-Turn assistance is used. It's just a general package offered to all Onstar equipped vehicles.

Absolutely. On-Star turn-by-turn is a $28.90 per month way for GM cars that lack full-blown navigation systems to provide some nav functionality--as long as voice-only directions are sufficient for you.

"In the Audi A6 and A5, to cite specific examples, the "shiny" bits aren't as brilliant and they manage the look of polished metal (hand-worn, if you will) and look less like chrome-plated plastic. They are also more sparingly used."

Audi, BMW and Mercedes mostly use satin finished chrome. Its not as "loud" as regular chrome but it does add some detail to their designs.

Great blog post
Kill the consumer 1 monthly payment at a time... all this "software" content must be great for car companies. Updating software, upgrading a chip or nav software is pennies yet can be marked up thousands.

I hate the monthly payment thing and makes the car feel disposable. I guess the scrolling advertisements on the Nav screen and voice ads from Onstar are not far off?

*sticking the double finger Magnum44 in mouth and pulling back the thumb.... kapow!*

My free first year of OnStar came with 100 phone minutes. That's just the right amount for me, because I have a firm policy of not making calls while driving. The only exception is calling my wife to tell her when to expect me to arrive for our afternoon carpool.

I still had leftover minutes after that first year. I got the 50% discount when I purchased 100 minutes for the second year, and by doing so the unused minutes rolled-over.

However, I admit that if my car had Bluetooth, then I would not probably not purchase minutes from OnStar.

"My comments were more relating to the front end of the CTS-V. I love the car, but they can keep the grill/grill trim."

Mesh grilles are used on other high performance models especially Jaguars. Its pretty common on European cars. Not sure why its a problem on the CTSV.

"No, dougtheeng, you were right about the interior of the CTS-V. Just look at the interior photo gallery at cadillac.com."

Where is the chrome inside the V? It has black leather and Obsidian trim, its much darker than the standard CTS interior.

"The CTS has a beautifully designed interior, but I agree with my wife on this one: the level of flash is just a bit too high. "

Maybe you need to post some pictures. The CTS has satin look plastic trim all over the center console just like in the R8. There is some chrome trim around the gauges and in a few other places but the interior is hardly lathered in chrome.

"Mesh grilles are used on other high performance models especially Jaguars. Its pretty common on European cars. Not sure why its a problem on the CTSV."

There are many types of mesh grills, so its misleading to lump them all together. I have a black mesh grill on my MINI, but it doesn't suffer from the problem of the CTS-V.

Hopefully, these links work. I'm not hyperlinking them.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/allen-qu/2230712820/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jalopnik/2226051642/

From those pictures, its pretty obvious what I mean when I say I think the front grill is a little too "50 Cent"ish. Also, when I say 50 Cent, I am meaning the stereotype, not necessarily the exact guy. Whether or not he is paid to endorse a chrome-less G8, he still perpetuates the rapper stereotype in every one of his videos.

Oh, and for reference, a decent mesh grill that would greatly improve the CTS-V:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23141015@N08/2303305998/

As I say, its a great car and I love it, but I would swap out the grill immediately.

Also, for reference:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/belshire/70610696/

http://www.autoblog.nl/images/cadillac_escalade_50cent.jpg

to be clear I really dont view the grille on the CTS-V as a problem. That seems to be your issue but I wouldnt assert that its a serious design flaw. Bentleys have had similar grilles for years. Bentley has been around longer than Fiddy Cent believe it or not. You cant ascribe a style to a rapper when the style predates the rapper.

I dont see what the pimped out Escalades have to do with the CTSV's grille in any way. I am fully aware of what an overdone Cadillac looks like but my point is the CTSV isnt such a vehicle. People want Cadillacs to mimic all the design features of European brands but Cadillac isnt a European brand and that's the whole point.

doug- I guess you will upset to know that one of the first mods STS, CTS, SRX owners made was to swap in a V series chrome mesh grille. In fact, the CTS-V team made the grille's features so complicated that its pattern cannot be copied in the aftermarket.

It's also funny that the people who design these cars are the social opposite of 50 Cent. As 1487 said, chrome was popular long before the rap genre was even introduced so I'm not really sure where you are coming from.

I don't see any reference to any other price per month than the $12.95 stated by Dan Edmunds, Director of Vehicle Testing in the OP.

I have XM and had it in my previous GM vehicle.

In both cases I have been able to renew XM for $78 per year = $6.50 per month.

In case that affects ( effects ? ) how any one looks at the "value proposition" offered by XM...
- Ray
Listens to Jazz & CNN & Fox News.......

"As 1487 said, chrome was popular long before the rap genre was even introduced so I'm not really sure where you are coming from."

Sure it was popular, and 1487 is dead right that Bentleys have long shared that grill. But I think since then, it has been 'taken over', so to speak, by a different culture.

"doug- I guess you will upset to know that one of the first mods STS, CTS, SRX owners made was to swap in a V series chrome mesh grille."

Doesn't bother me at all. As with anything aesthetic, everyone has a different opinion. As I said before, if I was to buy a CTS-V, I would definitely swap the grill. If others like it, that's quite alright with me. I just am dissapointed that Cadillac chose that as the stock option. If it was my choice, I'd leave the chrome for the aftermarket.

"I am fully aware of what an overdone Cadillac looks like but my point is the CTSV isnt such a vehicle."

My point in posting the links was to show the similarities between the stock CTS-V grill and the aftermarket products commonly seen on 'overdone' Caddys.

rayainsw: My information is consistent with the price you cite, but only for an XM user with more than one XM-equipped car (or home receiver) on the same account. Is this the case for you?

The price in the blog reflects the basic single-receiver price on XM's website (and our bill) before the multi-receiver discount is applied.

I paid $77 for 12 months of XM radio after I let the 3 month trial period end without renewing. Its worth $6.50 a month.

doug,

I dont think anyone will get the wrong idea about your cultural preferences if you drove a CTSV with the stock grille. It hardly looks aftermarket or tacky. The grille on the CTS-V is so large and exaggerated because the engine and heat exchangers need that much airflow. The engineeres dictated the grille opening size and the designers filled it in with a V style grille just like the old car's.

"I dont think anyone will get the wrong idea about your cultural preferences if you drove a CTSV with the stock grille. It hardly looks aftermarket or tacky."

This is where we disagree, but its all good. Agree to disagree.