2008 Pontiac G8: U R GR8

Mav -
 
It's a nice car. Sounds great too, and could be even louder.
Did you find the B-pedal to be soft?
I'd also prefer to have the console mounted manumatic to upshift with a pull instead of a push to take advantage of the inertial effect.

A glowing review, nice.

SnakeDoctor,
 
Yeah, brake pedal's on the soft side. That's one way -- one of the few ways, I'd venture to say -- in which the G8 isn't a 5 Series substitute.
 
As for the manumatic, what I'd really like to see is shift paddles.
 
Josh

Great concept behind this post. I totally agree that a great car is a car that makes you look past the little things that bother you, whatever they may be. Lets face it, every car has it's shortcomings. Car love develops from a car summing up greater than it's shortcomings...
 
What is it with the soft brake pedals on a lot of american vehicles (in my experience)? Brake pedal feel ranks only one step below steering feel in my list of important "feels" :)
 
Unless, of course, you've been absolutely hammering the brakes and the fluid is already shot...
 
Joe

That's because this car is flat-out awesome for $32k.
 
Lol Josh you should tell that to KB who didnt think the G8 was a screaming deal.
Sadly though`, I`m yet to see one.

It may have soft brakes but it stops... really well. Mercedes Benz's have weird brake pedal feel too, but they still stop so no one really complains. I'm sure if you drove it everyday you'd be used to it.

Having recently owned a car with soft brakes...I don't really think you get used to it. Sure, you know to push the pedal harder....but soft brakes rarely are progressive and easy to modulate. On the flip side, plenty of cars now have a very abrupt initial brake feel....same thing. Hard to modulate.
 
A pedal should be like the steering wheel, firm, no slop, and requiring an effort commensurate with the effort the car is exerting.
 
Joe

"What is it with the soft brake pedals on a lot of american vehicles (in my experience)? Brake pedal feel ranks only one step below steering feel in my list of important "feels" :)"
 
I've found it just the opposite. All of the GM cars I've had the pleasure of driving have decent feel and a firm pedal stroke. Caddy STS, CTS (1st gen), SRX, Aura, Impala, and even the old Intrigue and Alero. My Mazda has a full inch of dead travel and NO feel whatsoever.

Huh, well, then just my experiences with a few grand prix, several different saturns, Pontiac/Toyota Vibe, Ford Escape and Explorer, and a few other vehicles. Neon, stratus. Trying to remember what else. It was a very common experience....exceptionally soft pedal travel the first few inches and then hard-mushiness towards the end.
 
To give a different side though, my 06 Civic SI has an abrupt entry point...takes awhile to get used to. Then it gets hard almost immediately. Very easy to modulate in day to day traffic, but as soon as you get on it it starts getting mushy. Supposedly, it's just pads and fluid away from transforming into a completely progressive and natural brake pedal. I guess I'll find out in about 10k more miles :)
 
Joe

GM vehicles rarely have a lot of dead travel in the brake pedal. You cannot count older cars that may have lost some brake feel over the years due to servicing. from the factory every GM product I have piloted has a brake pedal that engages quickly. When I drive rental cars or other cars from other brands I am shocked at the dead travel. I had a chance to drive a 2002 Camry XLE and the brake pedal was one of the mushiest I have ever experienced.
 
The G8 GXP will have a stiffer suspension than the Gt. Let's face it, if Pontiac made the GTs suspension any stiffer it would be too stiff for pot holed roads in the east and midwest. Cadillac went all out with the FE3 suspension for the CTS and most reviews have said its too stiff for street use. Pontiac made the right move.

"Huh, well, then just my experiences with a few grand prix, several different saturns, Pontiac/Toyota Vibe, Ford Escape and Explorer, and a few other vehicles. Neon, stratus. Trying to remember what else. It was a very common experience....exceptionally soft pedal travel the first few inches and then hard-mushiness towards the end"
 
Well that's what happens you make blanket statements about "American" cars. Let me clarify, I've never driven a GM car with poor brake feel. My dad's Chevy Express cargo van has better brake feel than both my Mazdas. Granted, I haven't driven every single model but I have driven each specific platform GM has produced in the last decade. The worst offender would be the full sized SUV. I find it very hard to believe the Grand Prix you piloted exhibited poor brake pedal feel when I've had two W platform vehicles in the family, a '98 Intrigue and an '08 Impala LTZ.

Important point - and well made...
- Ray
Likely 2009 G8 GT buyer - in a few months

i saw my first one the other day here in Worcester, MA. very cool (black, just like this one.)

Chavis - I've driven a wide variety of american cars and experienced a similar brake pedal characteristic in all of them. Which is soft and mushy initial feel followed by hard mushiness. So I made a general statement, but I'm not going unchallenged on it...it was what it was, a general statement. I don't think ALL american vehicles have that characteristic, just that it seemed common to me. Same thing with steering feel on the American vehicles I've driven over the past decade or so....it seemed to be a consistent dialing-out of feel and bump-steer in favor of light-and-power-assisted feel.
 
I'd say the same about the Japanese, but I can't. Each one seems different. Even car to car. At least, differing moreso than my experiences with American cars. Subaru has lighter steering but quite good feel on most of it's cars. Honda is similar, but you wouldn't confuse the two...they feel unique (probably because one is symmetrical AWD and the other is asymmetrical FWD). Toyota tends to be numb.
 
My experience with German cars is similarly all over the place with brake and steering feel.
 
So, out of American, Japanese, and German, my experiences are that American cars, as a country of manufacturers, tend to have the most consistent feel of brake pedals and steering than the other two countries.
 
I haven't driven every model. I don't test drive from the factory and I'm not a car journalist. It's just my personal observation.
 
Joe
 
P.s. I've driven two recent grand prix's...The GXP was hard and mushy...I think the pedal was just difficult to move, but the feel itself was mushy. The Gt2 version was softer than that. The Chrysler 300 (base model) that my father-in-law drives has a soft, mushy pedal feel and the absolute worst case of warped rotors I have ever experienced. Chrysler refuses to warranty them, and his company refuses to pay to fix them, so the entire car violently judders everytime he brakes.
 
Now I'm off topic :)

The G8 is a decent-looking car, but it doesn't get your attention like a Mustang or a 300 (or a Crown Vic, but in a different sense). I hate to admit this, but I liked the GTO's styling better.

"Same thing with steering feel on the American vehicles I've driven over the past decade or so....it seemed to be a consistent dialing-out of feel and bump-steer in favor of light-and-power-assisted feel. "
 
There is no generic "american car" tuning for steering, brake fell or anything else. I drove a 2004 or 2005 Grand Prix at a GM event and I dont remember any sloppiness in the brake pedal. I surely didnt experience it in my own vehicles or any of the Cadillacs I have driven. I drove a rental lacrosse and it didnt have this issue either. As for steering, you will find a wide range of steering feel within GM's stable. I drove the last gen CTS and the steering was very solid and direct. On the Impala thats not really the case. If you drive an Aura or Malibu you will see the steering is anyting but light. If anything, it takes far more effort than a comparable mainstream import car. At my job we have 1996 Taurus' and they have "traditional" steering feel which is to say none at all. I wouldnt base any assertion about other vehicles on a 1996 Taurus though. The press indicated that the Fusion has some of the sharpest steering in the midsize segment.

Yeah, just to clarify, my experiences have been from like 1995-2005. So I'm not stating my experiences for brand new cars.
 
I wouldn't describe "slop" for brake pedal feel unless it was brake fade. Either soft, hard, dead travel, or mushy.
 
The worst brakes I've experienced (actually recently had the joy of this in a few year old rented F-350) are described thusly:
 
No effort for the first inch or two, then you meet an area of extreme hardness to compress the pedal further. The amount of effort commensurate with the needed braking is not measured by pedal feel. Nay. It is measured by whether or not the car is stopping at the rate you think the amount of pressure you are applying should produce.
 
The definition of progressive or natural braking, in my mind, is when the act of braking does not take thought. It never feels full of effort (i.e. I just put on new, quite heavy tires on my car and I notice it actually takes effort to come to a complete stop now).
 
Lest you think I am knocking domestics, I actually don't like the steering on my father's 99 Porsche Boxster. It's good in all situations except bumpy roads (which is what PA specializes in)...on bumpy roads, the car's steering takes on a mind of it's own. There is no way you can hold a tight line when you hit a bump.
 
Some of the best steering I've ever experienced was on my now-traded-in 2005 Saab 9-2x Aero. A WRX wagon in disguise, but with the STi steering gear used and softer suspension tuning. Different alignment too. Fantastic steering combined with a fantastic steering wheel. It was eminently tossable, light on it's feet but with proper effort in all situations, feedback rich. Even though that suspension rolled and those 205/55/16 tires hid for cover in sight of a turn, man that thing had good steering :)
 
Wow am I off topic.
 
Joe

"I hate to admit this, but I liked the GTO's styling better."
 
Greenpony, i've been lambasted for saying this but I agree. Give me a 05 in grey, blue or black and delete the hood scoops and you have a perfect sleeper. I believe if this car had any name besides GTO it would have done much better.

I thought the revised 2005 GTO was a sharp car. The 18s, large exhaust tips and rear fascia made a world of difference. Its not like the 3 series coupe had flashy styling at that time so I didnt get why the GTO caught so much flak.

i always thought the GTO looked like a "bloated" cavalier...jmo.

And *that's* ^^ why it caught so much flack. Especially from those so-called 'fans' of the original car who said this one strayed from the original formula. I disagreed then, and now- the original formula was to take a run-of-the-mill car and give it a TON of power. So the fact that the new one was so similar to other common vehicles but with an outstanding powertrain was right in line with where it should've been.
 
Regardless, it didn't sell well.

the GTO would have been criticized if the styling was too over the top and it was criticized for being too tame. The GTO would have sold well if they offered a cheaper, less loaded version with a V6. The one price fits all strategy didnt work, especially at $32k. Pontiac is definitely a brand that is damned if they do and damned if they dont. The GTO had an understated look just like its foreign coupe competitors but the pundits wanted it to look like a muscle car.

i'll second the motiont hat the GTO failed because it looks like a cavalier.
 
I wouldn't even call it bloated, the 2 cars had very similar lines all around.
 
theres a way to make it not flashy, yet still look differfent