2008 Cadillac CTS: I Just Couldn't Buy One

wow, you won't buy a car because of pedal placement.....quite pathetic

I usually disagree with you, opfreak, but not this time.
 
I guess the CTS could use a bigger brake pad but honestly? You wouldn't buy one because of pedal placement? I sit very close to the wheel of my car, and this requires that I make an "ankle movement" to brake and accelerate. I like it that way.
 
P.S. Opfreak I happen to be wearing my shirt :)

My girlfriend's '97 Corolla (aka the Slowrolla) has the same problem. the brake pedal is much higher than the gas pedal and you have to lift your foot quite a bit to brake. In an emergency situation, I hope I can lift my foot and leg enough to hit the brake.

I have to agree with opfreak too. If depth of the pedal is the big issue, why can't you add a thick piece of rubber cut to size over the gas pedal to equal them out more? Seems like a pretty quick fix to me.

James I am completely with you on this one. Pedal placement is not some minor issue, it really does make or break the ownership experience. I am assuming you are like me and heal-toe even during normal driving. Awkward pedal placement makes this completely impossible, and adjusting your driving position for a car is something you just shouldn't have to do. Awkward pedal placement can also make it near impossible to drive quickly with confidence. Given how good the CTS is in all other performance respects, this surprises me.

Really? Can't you just put an accelerator pedal cover on it? And for that matter, can't you do the same for the brake pedal (maybe a thinner cover) that extends it closer to the accelerator?
 
Is this one hangup really sufficient to warrant striking a car from one's shopping list?
 
P.S. Is it just me or does the G8's plastic and carpeting look like it's better quality than those the CTS?

So someone should buy a car even if it makes them 'terribly uncomfortable'? That doesn't make sense to me.
 
And yah, you could probably switch out pedals, but how'd you know that would work good enough before throwing down 45G's for a car? Especially considering that competing cars are not exactly trash bins (oh no, I have to buy a 328i or a G35!).
 
I've never had this problem though with GM cars, probably too short.

I heal toe in my automatic cars all the time.
 
The problem really isn't the placement, its that edmunds workers drive 100's of different cars. You body would easily adjust to pedal placement if you just drove one car. But since you dont, the more extreme placements stick out more.

My body would not adjust to this pedal placement, not unless I saw off part of my leg. The problem for me is the placement, but if I have to say it again, it's not a problem for everyone. Just myself and a few others. The car is still awesome and I'd recommend it to anyone.
 
And mercedesfan, do you really mean heal-toe? If our CTS did have a manual with this placement, I would definitely have an even bigger issue. If, however, you somehow mean keeping your heal stationary as you fan your foot back and forth to "toe" the pedals, then yes I do that.

Hello Ladies
 
fyi: It's HEEL and toe.
 
Regards,
Snake Doc

Opfreak,
 
Unless you're a podiatrist, I don't think you're going to be "heal-toeing" in a car with an automatic transmission.
 
-Sadlier

Hahaha, Snake Doc! I'm guessing we still have some kids around here who might still be in high school or others who just don't care about spelling.
 
The real question is whether the proper expression is "heel-and-toe downshift" or "heel-toe downshift." I've seen both used, but I prefer the latter.
 
I know Ed likes to left-foot brake on vehicles with slushboxes (just like F1 (except Rubens and D.C.) and WRC drivers!). How does this car's pedal arrangement suit him and any others on the staff who left-foot brake?

I think it's the problem with being an automotive editor who sees a lot of cars for a short time but not many for a long time. Any car that comes under prolonged scrutiny is bound to have more of its fault revealed. This doesn't mean they're not present in the competition.
 
I think this one is just a matter of "get over it". There's slight differences in how every car interfaces with its driver, and there's no one universally right way to do it. Some flexibility as a driver is required.

I once had a Nissan Sentra in which the clutch pedal put me in a similar position... I could either be comfortable on the clutch, or on the other pedals, but not both. My conclusion... ergonomics that don't fit your body are a perfectly good reason to pass on a car. (I didn't pass on the Sentra because I got it for $300, and I was a starving grad student.) Few cars are so much better than the competition that it's worth going through the effort of physical therapy or screwing blocks of wood to control pedal travel.
 
The only flexibility required on the driver's part is the ability to walk over to the competition's dealership.

I completely understand this post and I like that it was well qualified that it was a personal thing. Some posters appeared to have missed that.
 
When I test drove the Legacy GT, I found no problems (like james and the CTS). Now that I own one, I realize I have NO room where the pedals are. My size 12 shoes essentially rest on the rubber floor mats and then, if I raise my heel 1" off the floor, I hit the under-dash stuff. The pedals are perfectly placed for heel-toe, but for me that means that I barely twitch to hit gas or brake. A little annoying.
 
I probably would not have bought the car if I had realized that. Luckily, it's for my wife and she's fine in it. And I only drive it once a week or so. So no big deal for me.
 
People who don't realize how important that stuff is seem to be missing that you experience those problems every moment of the driving experience.
 
Joe

THANKS SnakeDoc!! I was reading the posts and getting progressively angrier until, to my relief, someone corrected the insanity.

I agree with Suby, if it's so far to the left wouldn't it be more comfortable to just left foot brake on this one (resting the left foot on the dead pedal when not in use)??
 
In my case, pedal position (and feel) is a deal braker in a manual car. My current car isn't to my complete liking, but I got it before I learned how to heel-toe, so I didn't know better. Cross my fingers I'll solve that before the end of this year :)

Whoa, santiagofdz. Let's back the truck up. I wasn't encouraging people to left-foot brake. I was merely suggesting the car's pedal placement might be a non-issue--or maybe even preferred--for those who brake with their left foot.

Poor GM, it used to be that due to bad reliability so people shouldn't buy it, then it was bad interior and now bad pedal placement?
 
Geez, GM just can't win...

Maybe you should install some kind of domestic-friendly filter so our more tenderhearted colleagues aren't exposed to your evil Cadillac bashing.
 
On another note, James, be one with the CTS. Concentrate, and repeat after me. I'm comfortable in its seats. I CAN find the perfect driving position. The pedals are ideally placed. That BMW is NOT calling out to me. I hate BMW! BMWs are overpriced!

I wonder if this was part of the grand pa deperment in cadiallac, those old farts like to mistake the gas and brake pedals, putting them futher apart so that its harder to press both at the same time.
 
Just like pedals can be too close for people with big feet, they can be to far for others. I dont think its really the fault of any car... unless you have a custom car made just for your body, they have to accomdate a wide range of people...
 
I'm willing to be alot of them would be scared if their foot on the brake came close to the gas

Dear James,
Please quit your job now. What kind of man are you when you are bashing a car because of the seats and the pedals? Suck it up. You have no credibility if you bash cars for such silly reasons.

Personally, I like it when the pedals are separated somewhat. My job requires that I wear boots most of the time and bundled pedals make actuation difficult.
 
I completely agree about the plane thing. All pedals should be equidistant from my feet.

I would just like to state my apology for starting the whole "heal-toe" rather than the correct "heel-toe" fiasco. Sometimes there just isn't time to spell-check. :)
 
And James, I did mean fanning the pedals as I realize one cannot heel-toe in an automatic. There just isn't proper terminology for that movement.

What's the manual like? Is it this bad with a manual CTS? I know it's not a manual -a sin in my eyes - but I'm used to BMWs where you can roll the edge of your right foot so you're pressing the brake and hitting the gas at the same time. It seems this would be tough in a CTS?

"Dear James,
Please quit your job now. What kind of man are you when you are bashing a car because of the seats and the pedals? Suck it up. You have no credibility if you bash cars for such silly reasons."
 
Comments like this are rediculous. Did you even read what he posted? He likes the car and encourages you to buy it.
 
I love the BMW Z3, but the seat doesn't go low enough for me and I find myself looking OVER the windshield. Should I suck it up, and just put on some goggles? Thats the logic suggsted to James here.
 
You guys accuse the Edmunds staff of being hateful and anti-American[cars], but you don't even read what he wrote. He recommended the car! What more do you want? Even if every post was worshipping the CTS/G8, I have a feeling people would still complain.

Doug,
 
People will always complain. Nature of the universe. It's only when you stop trying to please everyone that you actually wind up being a leader.
 
Back to the topic at hand....I remember that european and japanese cars came to the states are people had complaints that the pedals were too close and that it was too easy to hit the wrong one. American cars did tend to put them in with wider-spacing. Not really complaining either way, just pointing out that it may be heritage.
 
Joe

i find it amusing that we come to this site to read about the editors' personal experiences in the cars they are testing and then bash them for giving us information we don't want to hear because of our biases.
on second thought, maybe some people that post here don't care about the cars...they just want somewhere to complain.
 
p.s. snakedoctor, did you catch the great MotoGP race last weekend. Go Colin!
 
-Damien in Worcester, MA

Finally some more people are complaining about that stupid pedal height being different (brake placed closer to foot than accelerator).
I have this in my Cavalier and believe me I will NOT buy a new car if it has that issue. It is annoying, and is a real foot hurting issue. I often tried to adjust my seat so perhaps when I lift my foot to press the brake it'd be less uncomfortable but it always is. I sometimes try to left foot brake, which is even more horrible as my left foot is not used to modulating braking.
 
opfreak I'm surprised you don't see his point since you drive a Sunfire which has that same issue.

I've never known this to be a problem. Its amazing to me that out of all the cars on the market only GM makes a pedal arrangement tha turns off IL editors. When driving rental cars or other people's cars I have never paid much attention to the pedal placement nor have I had trouble adjusting to the placement in those cars.

I can understand the different pedal height being annoying, but I think you would get used to it if you drove it everyday (i.e., not a deal breaker). If they put the pedals closer together though, I can guarantee you GM would be sued for unintended acceleration cases just like Audi did, as idiot drivers would definitely step on the gas pedal intead of the brake. You can thank lawyers and the idiots they defend for GM's pedal placement.

"I've never known this to be a problem. Its amazing to me that out of all the cars on the market only GM makes a pedal arrangement tha turns off IL editors."
 
As usual you always seem to manipulate and twist what someone expressed. Just because YOU dont see it as an "issue" doesnt mean someone else wont.
 
Ive really never had much issue with pedal placement in automatic vehicles but with manuals it HAS TO BE JUST RIGHT along with the shifter. S2000 is a fine exapmle of near perfect pedal placement and shifter quality.

Good point, stingray. Sometimes carmakers make seemingly odd design choices because legal thinks it will reduce liability risk for the company. And since American automakers are usually bigger courtroom targets and are more familiar with the US legal system than import brands, they are understandably more concerned about it.
 
The disabling of certain navigation features while moving is an example of this, I think. Most (perhaps all) of the companies that allow full access while moving are based overseas.

Bemanix, Suby, blankfocus -
Thanks for the props.
 
To the haters: This is Riz's opinion for this particular vehicle - not all Detroit iron - don't extrapolate. It certainly is not the opinion of everyone at IL - I found the pedals to be fine - the B-pedal just felt a bit soft.
 
blankfocus - keep in touch, congrats on the nuptials - see you at Laguna next year!
 
Regards,
Snake Doc

Consider this: This issue is largely related to foot size. Length and width.
 
If you have size 9-10 shoes (as a male) and a normal width I bet you'll never notice pedals being too close together (as I have).
 
Conversely, if you have size 12 shoes and perhaps an extra wide foot (like I do), then perhaps very closely spaced pedals are awkward (like using a small blackberry to type in text when you have latex gloves on).
 
In that situation, a wider pedal spacing may feel just right.
 
Don't put down pedal placement as important in buying. To put it in perspective:
 
1. I wouldn't buy a manual-transmission car with a crappy shifter, or really abrupt clutch, or a drive by wire system that doesn't work well, as it's something you interact with everyday. FYI, I own a 2006 Civic SI with a great shifter, an ok clutch, and a terrible drive-by-wire system. At 44k miles, I'm about ready to sell it for these reasons.
 
2. I wouldn't buy a car with a cheap feeling steering wheel (my old Saturn Ion)...you touch it constantly. If it annoys you, it'll annoy you every moment of driving.
 
3. I wouldn't buy a car with an uncomfortable seat. Same concept.
 
4. I wouldn't buy a car whose ergonomics didn't fit me. Perhaps my arms don't reach the steering wheel correctly, or reaching the pedals doesn't fit me. Or it feels too tight or too large (Honda Accord nowadays feels way too large for me to drive, and I'm 5'10 180 pounds).
 
Etc. etc.
 
I think those are all very valid reasons. And yet lots of people poo-poo the poster even though he recommended the car and simply pointed out that his particular frame doesn't agree with the placement of the pedals.
 
Joe

I drove a 2008 CTS for several days earlier this year - a rental, but nearly new & in good condition.
 
Setting aside the dynamics, I would not have purchased a CTS ( probably not even a CTS-v, if I had the $$s ) based on the seat & related control relationships...
 
- Ray
quite comfortable in the seat of my Corvette, thanks....

vic_pe
 
I know my sunfire is the same. I maybe noicted the first 100 miles.
 
after 112k, I have no problems with it... in fact, my foot has issues in cars Other then my sunfire.

"At 44k miles, I'm about ready to sell it for these reasons. "
 
Ahaha we all know the real reason is that you have your eye on a 1-series, don't deny it!

Doug,
 
1-series, Mazdaspeed 3, e39 530i 5-speed w/ sport package, 3-series, new A4, e36 M3, a nearby super cheap 1985 BMW 325e 5-speed....
 
The various foibles of the Civic SI have me continually looking at all of those. It has also made me realize that I really should never buy a car with the intent of keeping it for more than 3-years, cause after 1 year I start twitching.
 
Joe

my family [im 16] has a 2006 jeep grand cherokee overland 4x4 that we keep as a sort of spare car and a car for the dog b/c all of our other cars are too nice and she already destroyed a 5 series. when i bring my range rover in i could get a loaner if i was of age but im not so i drive the jeep while my cars goes in and the jeep has the same pedal placement issue. the ankle twisting thing is TERRIBLE!
 
now my familys had 6 bmws in the last 5 years and my range rover has the bmw family pedal despite having the jag engine and IMO they are the best pedals ever. good feel, they dont age, and the distances and angles are spot on. and this is coming from at 5' 7" guy with only size 8 feet. despite that i am very comfortable driving my car long distances and have done it before. pedal positions should be an industry standard type thing IMO

Joe, buy a E46 330i ZHP (performance package) sedan. Ive driven several and always came away impressed with each. Its rare, has a few ///M parts, about 10-15 more horses than the regular 330i and some aero tweaks.
 
Pic of 330i ZHP sedan:
 
http://www.reveuro.com/inventory/bmw330i_zhp_10059/bmw330i_zhp_performancepkg_13.jpg

Hondaacura4,
 
I miss my 03 ZHP every day. :( I don't trust used cars but as time goes by I miss that ZHP more and more. I may have to go against everything I believe about BMWs and get a used 2005 ZHP one day.

A possible cure is the addition of aftermarket pedals. There are full replacement or ones that just clamp on.
They are different sizes and could make up for the centimeters gap.
 
I agree anything that you interact with as a necessity of operating the vehicle should be perfectly comfortable when purchasing a car. It's no small thing. (pedals, steering, seats, ergonomics)
 
But this is one case where it may be correctable.

Blueguy, I came within inches of buying an 04 blk/blk alcantara sedan last year here at a local high end pre-owned leasing dealer. The car was mint, had under 30K on it but the price was a bit on the high side. Now I wish I would have given in.
 
Everyone seems to be getting a new car in my area. The couple behind us has 2 new 335i's (coupe and sedan), a lady down the street coincidentally just purchased a charcoal 330i ZHP sedan (I love this car), and the couple accross the street just purchased a new G35X to compliment thier current M35.
 
My daily driver is 5 years old and I think its time to get something esle. I need 4 or 5 doors, a nice snickety snick 6MT, adequate to more than adequate power, premium features, has to be VERY sporty, safe, reliable, and good resale value.

I think pedal placement is a big deal. I really liked the new Silverado when it came out, couldnt wait to drive it, and when I did it was a major let down. After the test drive I said to the salesmen, "I just cant live with the how far apart the pedals are, to go from gas to brake I have to lift my knee and heel entirely into the air and and hold it mid air while I brake, then back over to the gas, its so tiring in traffic." I couldnt live with it, period. Driving a new Tundra on the otherhand was bliss. It fealt right from the word go - pedal placement, throttle calibration, pedal feel etc etc, yes, this should be an industry standard. Surely they look into this when deciding on the settings and final production specifications, it would be nice to hear from a GM engineer responsible for these kinds of things as to why they make it suck. Yes I own a Toyota and a BMW, thouroughly enjoy driving both, but actually feel that the pitch of the BMW throttle at rest and at freeway speeds is to upright and it hurts my tendons. I guess it depends on your physiology.