2008 BMW 135i: Introduction

I'm sitting here rubbing my hands in anticipation of a year-round comparison of this 135i and the STI. More to the point, after the year is up—and if it were "your" hard-earned cash—which would you buy, and why?
 
Yum-yum...

Actually the 128 is the cheapest. I understand testing the best example of a new model, but there's nothing "entry level" about it. I'd probably get a Z4 at that point.
 
Having said that, it will be very interesting to read as y'all compare the new 135 to the used M3.

Yay! Although I don't agree with you guys getting a "cheap" one. A proper BMW should have all the options. :-)
 
Still, probably a good idea to leave iDrive off the list!

"Still don't get why ordering was out of the question?"
 
Because we would've waited at least 8 weeks to get it. If we were buying the car for ourselves, we would've ordered. But we wanted to get this hot new car in here as soon as possible so we could report on it to our adoring readers.

Okay. Just seems like 8 weeks isn't much time. We, the readers, wouldn't know of the lag.
 
Personally, I'm more interested in the day-to-day with the 128. The 135 holds little interest for me as a daily driver.

Well this should be fun for a year. Too bad about that color though.

@johnmarco I have to respectfully disagree. I love that sort of bronzey orange.

It's actually much more red in person.

Well, that's a shame. Still, I kind of admire the willfully awkward design of the car - talk about a sleeper.

I don't know what I think about the looks of this car....I'm sure its great to drive, but I feel the ball was dropping a little with the exterior.

I like the color and the style. Unlike the 3 coupe, there isn't an expanse of sheetmetal, it doesn't seem glob-like and the cabin is upright and useful (more e46, e36 than the lowly e9x cars).

I don't really see the point of the 1 series. It looks like they paid about 36K for a stripped down car. We're talking 36K for a car with VINYL seats! Get any sort of options, and you're quickly north of 40K. Might as well get the 3 series at that point.
 
Also, I've seen one of these driving around near my house and it's pretty ugly. If it was fully loaded around 35K, I could forgive the looks and appreceiate the driving experience of the car. But for 40K+, there are much better options.

You're never going to make everyone happy, but I still wish you had gotten the 128i.
 
The exterior has odd proportions from certain angles. I think the hatchback, especially the five-door, looks much better, even with those funky concave doors. The interior looks standard BMW, which is just fine by me. As I'm 6'4", I'm curious to hear from the taller staffers about real-world livability.

"As I'm 6'4", I'm curious to hear from the taller staffers about real-world livability."
 
You'll hear plenty about it later, but I'm 6-foot-3 and the 135i is just fine. In our short-term car, I was able to comfortably drive with 5-foot-5 DiPietro behind me. However, that car's manual seats had a much better range of motion than our LT car's power seats. This will be harped upon a lot in the coming year.

First, without responding to anyone else, let me just say how I responded to seeing this on insideline today. I experienced what can only be described as a cargasm. I'm sorry, truly, I know it's vulgar. But I got excited, leaned forward in my chair, and I think my pupils dilated.
 
I really love this car. I will probably defend some of it's indefensible points because I might be biased.
 
I think it's exactly what tons of enthusiasts have been asking for....take everything of the BMW 3-series and distill it back towards the basics. It's not hard-core distilled, but it's alot more raw than the e90. It's alot shorter. It weighs a fair amount less (not a ton). It's got serious kit, some new BMW technology (brake regeneration, alternator decoupling, a better rear diff than the open diff on the e90s....
 
It's a pretty damn sweet ride for ~35k (lets face it, they paid $1400 extra for paint and power seats for the sake of getting the car faster...it's a 35-36k car).
 
I've looked at my budget and wondered whether this might be my best bet for first foray into the BMW world. I'll be very curious to hear about the standard seats....I couldn't get the sport package, as I'd want the non-staggered all-season tired option.
 
To those who think it's just so damn expensive:
 
1. Euro to dollar ratio, not alot of flexibility
2. The STI costs around 36-38k....the STI puts down less power to the wheels and uses alot cheaper interior materials, and to me has a less refined drivetrain.
3. Absent an LSD, this is the hottest thing in the sports coupe category this side of 50k, as far as performance goes.
 
I haven't loved the looks, but it's growing on me. This is my favorite color for the car too.
 
Edmunds, you've brought a tear to my eye and brightened my day :)
 
Joe

I love the drivetrain but definitely am dissapointed by the styling. The "O Really?!?!" headlights and the sagging rocker panel line are its worst features. There is simply too many curves on this small car, making it look busy and overdesigned.
 
I look forward to hearing about this car. I may want to buy one in a few years after they fix the styling :). The sheetmetal doesn't hold a candle to my 2001 E46 M3.

joefrompa: I'm right there with you.
  
Its far from a bargin but I am still very excited about this car. Its a fantastic sleeper but its only a dinan chip and tire upgrade away from eating corvettes. At 36k I would never go for it but maybe in three years maybe 20-25k?
  
As far as the exterior goes, some angles are great and some not so great, I need to see it in person. Also, i'm not sure if the M body kit is helping.

I saw my first live 135i on the street today and I have to say I was disappointed on the looks. It looks much better in photos than in person. I, too, would have liked to see the 128i added to the fleet. It is much more in spirit with the 2002tii

I pray they come with the hatchback....and I can't wait to see the 2010 1-series refresh :)
 
Joe
 
FYI, expect me to comment on the 1-series blog posts as much as Subytrojan does on all things STI.

I'm disapointed. You should have stuck with your idea and got the 128i.
 
Even with minimal options, the 135 is just too expensive.
 
I bet the 128 is a fun car to drive and that in normal use the 135 is not any better, but unless I buy one I will probably never know since all the car sites/mag's can't seem to bring themselves to try the 'entry level' car.

I only care to hear about the powertrain as this car is dead ugly. It's a shame we can't extract a BMW chassis/ powertrain and install it in something with pretty styling and a functional, good looking interior.

"You'll hear plenty about it later, but I'm 6-foot-3 and the 135i is just fine."
 
Good deal. As I'm the primary caregiver for our young son, a 1er would more likely be my wife's commuter car than mine. But I'd still need to be able to drive it on occasion, and I'm sure I'd want to. Fortunately, the wife can drive a stick!
 
+1 to joefrompa's comments on cost. Over on Karl's blog the other day, people were starting to sound like Dwight Schrute in their comments about the price of bimmers: "Fact: all BMWs are overpriced. 87 Trans Ams offer more power, and you can get one for like $400. Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica."

I'm sorry, but the difference between 128 and 135i in power is so substantial that I don't blame them for paying the extra (and getting some niceties for it....suspension, drivetrain, wheels, xenon headlights, and I think sound system....I also thought power seats came standard with the 135 but that doesn't appear to be the case).
 
You know, this car isn't the most attractive thing in the world. But I've realized that I've come to enjoy the look of the bug-eye WRX and many other previously butt-ugly cars. I think in time this one will join.
 
Joe

"First, without responding to anyone else, let me just say how I responded to seeing this on insideline today. I experienced what can only be described as a cargasm. I'm sorry, truly, I know it's vulgar. But I got excited, leaned forward in my chair, and I think my pupils dilated."
 
I think we are on the same page Joe as I litterally did the same thing. I wasnt expecting this car in the Edmunds LT fleet! Actually glad to see it.
 
As far as looks are concerned in pictures the car does look a bit funny. When I saw a black/red one Saturday night (loaded 135i=$42K) I just stopped and looked at it from a distance. It doesnt have the same class as a 335i coupe but there is something about the design thats just as purposeful. It more youthful, sporty and it just looks like it would be seriously fun to drive and from what Ive read it is.
 
Addressing all haters! This car is what BMW enthusiasts have been asking for for years and BMW delivered. They actually listen to customers. If you dont like it then dont post. Simple as that.
 
My younger brother has a mint 02 BMW 330Ci coupe and was thinking of migrating to a 335i coupe but I think the 135i has his attention as of now. Ill try to see if I an get him to register here.

$40K for an introductory level luxury car? And if so, why not getting the 3 series coupe? Is the 3 series coupe too big? I guess the 1 series is just fine for hobbits.

Shame about the seats, the wood trim, and the color scheme. The red is what they use in all their brochures but it's hardly the best color for the car, and I have a big problem with light interiors (IMPOSSIBLE to keep clean!)

ban, 40k for a 3 series - especially a 330i/335 has been de rigeur for about 6-7 years. 30k is the average selling price of a car in the USA. Accord V6s top 30k! Really, is 35k much for a 135 in view of the fact so many generic cars now top out around 30k?

I was semi-expecting this car to join, as they changed their long-term blog picture from a civic SI on a twisty road to a white 135i (which is odd, since they didn't get a white one...).
 
Clarkma - What color do you prefer? I love the red and have since the first time I saw it...actually love it more than any of the other colors (albeit, I need to see more in person).
 
You know, I agree that light interiors are tough to keep clean. However. my wife and I have owned our '08 Legacy GT (white w/ tan interior) for 2500 miles now. It has black all-season rubber floor mats. It looks fantastic so far; hasn't been as bad as I expected.
 
I love the tan interior on this car. I would've preferred it with BMW's dark gray poplar though, a very sharp dark wood with a tan interior.
 
Which brings me to a point on price: one thing I think alot of people forget about BMW is their options. What color do you want? Now what interior? Now what type of trim? Sport seats or no sport seats?
 
You can build the car exactly how you want it. Very few things are bundled, and most bundles can be bought individually. In this way, you are never forced into anything. There are very few compromises (well, I want a white exterior but it only comes with tan and I wanted black...not the case here).
 
But to do this, the car is more expensive. There are less manufacturing efficiencies due to packaging.
 
One of the reasons why BMW's command that price premium. Another is that they build in that "free maintenance" into the 4 year, 50k plan (depending on your driving style, it's probably worth between $300 and $1200 depending if you wear the brakes down in that time).
 
It's actually 27k for "entry level luxury" (although I don't think it qualifies for that title.) Since you can get the 128i at that price.
 
Joe

Chip it at least - 2k:
 
http://www.dinancars.com/store/Stage-2-Performance-Engine-Software-Boost-Upgrade-c-783-p-3923.html
 
384 HP, 421 ft-lbs of torque.

I'm surprised nobody has asked for an Evo to mix it up with the 1er and STI. Perhaps nobody cares about the Evo? :o) j/k

I was actually very excited to see this vehicle join the other test vehicles. It actually rolled across my desk last summer and me and a few buddies got a good laugh. I honestly didn't care for it much but BOY has it grown on me.
 
I really like the convertible as the proportions are great. I get all excited when I think the same engine that powers the 335 is pushing the top line 1 series (all 300 HORSES)! I would never pay what they were asking but it's a good step forward for them. Love the Bravarians!

i'll be part of the crowd that says too much money.
 
Thought the point of the 1 was to get younger(poorer) buyers to the BMW brand.
 
Funny in europe BMW's can be pretty average cars. But to america they stick it.
 
And yes the STI is overpriced as well, as is the EVO.
 
However in defense of those 2, I would argue their drive trains are way more complicated then a simple rwd car.
 
As for giving people what they want... I kind of laugh, first they 'force' people to a crapper more bloated car... then to make themselves look better, they do what they should have done in the first place?
 
in the end i'm glad the car is hear.
 
But IMHO its overpriced

I really like the idea of the 1-series, which is a nimble, perfectly sized sports coupe. However, what I don't like about the 135i specifically are:
 
1. The MSRP
2. The sagging rocker panel line (what's up with that, it looks like the car has muffin tops...)
 
With that being said, I am looking forward to read about it over the next year.

What did you guys expect? What price moves the 135 from decent to overpriced? 32k? 33k? 34k?
 
Anything less is beyond silly. If you can point to another 4 seat, small (sub 3500 lbs) RWD coupe that has 300 HP for under 30k, I'm listening.
 
Mustang? I suppose but if you opt for a Mustang over a 1 you're looking for a very different kind of car. 350z? It's a two seater. G35? You might be able to get into one for the low 30s. Is that it? Infiniti's bargain basement coupe is the one car that offers about the same power, seating, size as a 1 series?
 
So how is it overpriced?

ya that bmw back seat is good for the olsen twins,andone bigger has to be an ampute

Instead of saying it's overpriced, how about listing cars that are it's rival?
Honestly are there any given it's scorching performance combined with killer build quality.
Subaru WRX STi? Maybe but it's performance is tainted by it's econobox build for $40K. Mitsu Evo? Same thing.
Really, those are the only competitors I can think of and they are more expensive. Plus while wikkid fast they don't have that same build feel the Bimmer has.
What else ya got? A Mustang? Puh-leeeze. Slower, heavier, worse brakes and handling with a solid rear axle..

Too little car for too much money. The only reason to buy one would be the engine, in my opinion. It's really ugly, too. Looks like a Bulldog (they're cute when they're dogs, but not cars).
 
For about a thousand more bucks, you can get a 335 that looks amazing and just makes more sense than the 1 series.
 
BMW doesn't need this thing or the X6.

opfreak, I'm trying not to be offensive so I'll say this:
 
Every woman (mother, wife, sister, mother-in-law, niece) in my family can fit in the back of the 1 comfortably when I have my seat in a normal driving position. (not a low-rider, poseur position, but optima driving position). It's got more interior space than an e46 coupe and I know plenty of people have ridden in the back of the e46 for years. It has a helluva lot more space in the back than any 911 or Mustang or Camaro I've ever ridden in.
 
As desmo just repeated, what else offers 4 place seating, 300 hp, RWD and a small package for this kinda price?

"For about a thousand more bucks, you can get a 335 that looks amazing and just makes more sense than the 1 series."
 
zoomzoom, comparably-equipped a 335i coupe is about $6000 more than a 135i. The 335i sedan is about $4000 more.
 
I agree that the 335i coupe looks better, but I own one so I might be a little biased. :-)

"Every woman (mother, wife, sister, mother-in-law, niece) in my family can fit in the back of the 1 comfortably when I have my seat in a normal driving position."
 
How tall are you again, bgdc?
 
I am also trying not to be offensive here as well...
 
I know the 1er is in a class of its own but like others have said, it is just slotted way too close to the 335i sedan, which offers way more utility for not much less performance. For those who are looking for a weekend car they may not care but I do given that I can only have one.

"As desmo just repeated, what else offers 4 place seating, 300 hp, RWD and a small package for this kinda price?"
 
How about the G37? Better looking, 330 hp, less expensive, and no vinyl seats on the base model.

bimmerjay, thanks for clearing that up. That makes the 1 series make a little more sense. I was just going off the base price of a 335 sedan compared to Edmunds' 1 series.
 
Still, I'd take the 3 series. I envy you for your coupe....couldn't afford one, so Mazda is the next best thing IMO. :)

G37's 330 hp is slower than the 135's 300 hp.. Also the 135 handles much better and has better brakes. Less plastic interior too. G37 competitor would be the 335, which also beats it in every category apart from price. if you want cheap, by all means get the G37. If you want the best, get the 335i
Next!

The comments regarding the 335 are curious; it's as if you're all denying the fact that the e46 coupe was about the same size as the 1 series. The e92 is much, much larger than the e46 coupe - it grew in every dimension. Now how did people survive for 6 years with the e46 coupe if the 1, which has more interior space, isn't big enough?
 
Someone else mentioned the 335 sedan. That's not a coupe, so it doesn't count.
 
So far, we've heard the 335i coupe (which doesn't qualify as small or cheap) and the G37, which at least hits near the price, seating, power.
 
Finally, nobody answered...what is the acceptable price for the 135? 32k? 33k? 34k? I keep hearing it's overpriced. What would have been a reasonable price for a 4 place, RWD, 300 HP sports coupe?

Although I too consider the 135i a bit on the pricey side, in its defense you have to keep in mind the Dollar's devaluation versus the Euro. It is going to be challenging for the German automakers to keep prices in line when the Euro has appreciated 60%. In the 70s and 80s, I remember german car prices spiking up very sharply because of FX rates. A year from now, this and every other german car may begin to look like a bargain at today's prices

Brand loyalty on these blogs is funny. You could slap a BMW badge on a Pinto and the Bimmer guys would praise its superior handling and driving dynamics.
 
And I think it's interesting how quickly value is dismissed in these discussions. Does the 335 perform/handle slightly better than the G35/G37? Sure, but is it worth the 10K premium? At least the IL editors realize this when doing their comparison tests. The rest of you seem to think that money grows on trees. If that were the case, I'd have my name on a waiting list for the GT-R.

I'd be more likely to buy a 128i, given the performance per dollar. But I'm really interested to see if they'll bring over a 120d.

"Someone else mentioned the 335 sedan. That's not a coupe, so it doesn't count. "
 
That's not entirely true, for those who are looking for the best luxury performance car/daily driver at around $40k as his/her only car then it is nature to shop between the 335i and 135i.
 
Like I said, for those who are looking for a weekend fun coupe then 135i is the way to go.
 
I would say the acceptable starting price for the 135i is $32,950. If BMW insists on starting it at $35k then at least give the base model leather and not charge extra for metallic paints.
 
BTW, bgdc, seems like you haven't answered my question too... How tall are you? If you are 6'1" with long thighs and every woman in your family can fit in the back of the 1 comfortably when you have the seat in a normal driving position then I'll have to give the 1er a serious look.

I agree that this car is too expensive, but the issue is not, in my opinion, that this particular 300+hp BMW coupe is too expensive for what it is, it's that BMW chose to offer us an "entry level" coupe that is not really entry level (even the 128 is a fairly high end engine).
I think many of us would have preferred something along the lines of a "125" maybe with the old 184hp (which is still plenty) six from the last generation and a 26,000 starting price or (gasp) maybe even a 170hp 4 cylinder. So the issue for me is not that THIS BMW is too expensive for what it is, but that BMW did not really offer the consumer a true entry level car...

Threem,
 
My thoughts exactly. What is wrong with 0-60 in 7.0 - 7.5 seconds? Does BMW somehow think it would degrade their brand if they had customers who made less than $100k purchasing their cars?

if the x6 can be called a coupe,
 
then its fair to compare a 4door 335 to a 2door 135.
 
As for bmw interoirs, Come on now, its good fit and finish, but its morbidly plain. Oh and it has fake leather just like a 19k mini, or a jetta.
 
BMW Luxury prices without luxury.

That's not entirely true, for those who are looking for the best luxury performance car/daily driver at around $40k as his/her only car then it is nature to shop between the 335i and 135i.
 
Then they're not looking for a coupe. The e90 is a very different car. It's significantly larger on the outside and much heavier. FWIW, I owned an e90. It's a boring Buick with a huge exterior and no personality. I clearly asked a RWD coupe that seats 4 and has 300 HP. The G37 is the only competition provided thus far. The G37 with manual starts at 37k. - 2k more than the 135.
   
I would say the acceptable starting price for the 135i is $32,950.
 
So you want it to start a lousy 2k lower? Really, 2k means that much? Wow. So if it starts at 33k, instead of 35k and that's 4k lower than a G37, then it's priced fine?
  
I'm 5-7. Put a 6 footer in a G37 or 335 coupe and ask someone to sit behind them. Best of luck. The truth is, a 6 foot driver in any G37, 335 coupe or 135 makes the seat behind them miserable. You can test this at a dealership. Hell, in an IS250/350, a 6 footer would basically have his front seat touching the backseat.

Bankerdanny,
 
The 1 series coupes - which are the same size as the e46 coupes but with more interior space - have more power and standard features for 5-6k less than e46 coupes. BMW sold gobs of those cars. If BMW suddenly dropped the price of the e46 330ci to 32k (about the cost of a similarly powerful and feature laden 128i - power seats, xenon, 230 hp engine), they would have sold gobs. The 2006 325ci started at 32k and that's 3-4k more than the 128i which has more of everything.
 
Where are you guys getting that the 1 is exepensive? The 1 series compared to the last gen e46 coupes is a steal. Compared to the competition - 2 door coupes, with RWD - we've only heard of one contender that the more expensive G37.

I think the issue is the assertion that this car is somehow an "entry level BMW." A true entry level BMW would be a 120i or 120d, priced in the low to mid 20s. The cost of the high-end powertrain, particularly on the 135i, is causing a lot of folks to see the car as a poor value. But that's because the 135i isn't really an entry level car. Think of it as a sports model instead, a little brother to the M3, and it makes a lot more sense at the current price point.
  
Doesn't matter to me though--$35k is as far out of reach for me as $60k. So back to the '99 Civic.

stephen has it... the one was being billed as coming to the usa as an entery level bmw... Its not... Its a good value for the weekend racer.

the funniest thing being propogated here is the idea that the 1 series must not be overpriced because there arent any "better" 4 seat, 3300lb, 300hp, $38k cars to compare it to. The fact that most automakers arent selling $40k RWD cars the size of a civic doesnt mean the 1 series isnt overpriced. I dont care if its as big as the old 3 series coupe or not- all that means it both cars are too small to cost this kind of money.
 
I sat in the car at the NY auto show and its interior is as somber as any BMW to come before it and the dash has hard plastics. There is a material difference between this car and the 3 series and thats part of the cost difference you see. Nothing about the 1 series interior screams "$36k car". Generally speaking Infiniti interiors arent as good as MB and BMW interiors but in this case the G37 is very close to the BMW target.
 
Someone said the G37 is $2k more than the 1 series. That may be true but that doesnt take equipment into account or the larger size of the G37. Of course the next thing we'll hear is "BMWs arent about stupid luxury gimmicks so who cares what features are standard on the G37!".
 
So predictable.
 
BTW, when the camaro comes out it will offer more than 300hp, RWD, 4 person seating and a modern chassis for less money than the 135i. Finally a car that can be counted as a competitor. Having been in the 1 series and Sti I can say the differences in the interiors are that great. The 1 series has a more substantial feel but the Sti has a more high tech look that suits its performace capabilities. The true difference between the 1 and the Sti and Evo is the brand cache. You will get more credit and attention with the BMW.

PS. And I happen to think the Camaro looks better than the 1 series.
 
"30k is the average selling price of a car in the USA. Accord V6s top 30k! Really, is 35k much for a 135 in view of the fact so many generic cars now top out around 30k?"
 
You have made this claim several times. Any link to back that up? I have seen figures suggestng the average is closer to the mid 20s. When you consider the best selling sedans in the US are the Camry (mostly I-4s), Accord (same), Altima (same) and Impala it's a little hard to believe the average transaction price for a new car is $30k. Yes family sedans can cost $30k but for that money that have far more space than a 1 series as well as every option. I dont think you get nav, power seats, heated seats, XM radio, dual zone AC, leather and bluetooth standard on a 135 but those features surely will be found on a loaded V6 family sedan.
 
BTW, isnt the G8 a RWD car (not coupe I know) that seats 4, has over 300hp and costs under $35k?

" think many of us would have preferred something along the lines of a "125" maybe with the old 184hp (which is still plenty) six from the last generation and a 26,000 starting price or (gasp) maybe even a 170hp 4 cylinder. "
 
I don't understand this logic. You would prefer if the 1 series had an older, less technologically evolved smaller engine and would've been happy to pay the 1's price minus 2k for THAT car?
 
I hope they bring the 120 or 123d over, as I believe this is the perfect platform for BMW to launch a performance RWD diesel in the U.S....rather than the 335d.
 
Personally, I'd like the 1-series to have a more classic exterior (it's obviously not going to be extremely attractive over the long-term like the e46 and e39 BMWs are...). I'd like it to weigh 200 pounds less (cause lets face it, you don't make 2800 RWD sport coupes anymore).
 
But if you had told me 4-5 years ago that BMW was going to launch a small, rwd coupe with an aluminum-magnesium 3.0 liter inline six putting out ~230 HP/200tq, a sweet 6-speed, and would get around 25mpg combined and capable of 30mpg highway....and it would cost around $27k base (in 2008 dollars)...I would've been thrilled.
 
So, yeah, I'm pretty thrilled about it. That thing has some hardcore technology in it, especially in the drivetrain, suspension, and efficiency dynamics areas.
 
Joe
 
P.s. Lets get this comments area to 100!

1487 - Good call on the G8. It's not a sports coupe and I don't think it'd hold it's own at an autocross or track event (compared to the 135, due to size and weight differences), but it's almost entry level luxury with big power for 30k.
 
But, it's the same thing versus any of the luxury brands. Value is always better with non-luxos than luxos....you are paying for all those little things (thicker glass, more sound deadening, and all the little touches as well as the "experience").
 
Joe

I can't see anyone cross shopping the 1 series and the G8.
 
"And I happen to think the Camaro looks better than the 1 series."
 
Agreed. I wonder if people will spend as much time complaining about the Camero's price when it comes out?
 
"The fact that most automakers arent selling $40k RWD cars the size of a civic doesnt mean the 1 series isnt overpriced."
 
If you're the only one on the block selling your product, you can charge what you like and there is no benchmark for it being overpriced.

Average cost in 2008 has dipped to 29k:
 
http://www.carbuyersnotebook.com/archives/2008/02/average_new_vehicle_cost_1.htm
 
I'm still reeling over the fact that the 128/135 offer more power, more standard features and more interior space than the e46 3 series coupes, yet somehow, magically, since 2007, the price is now too high for an e46 coupe and it's too small.
 
Someone needs to tell all the e46 M3, 325/238/330ci/cic owners that their cars are too small.
 
Tell all the e46 M3 owners how they have an unreasonably small car, yet the 135, with a price tag 18k+ lower can run with their cars, offers the same build quality and more space. The 135 also offers better fuel economy and an easy 2k upgrade path to 50 more HP and over 120 more ft-lbs of torque than the M3.
 
But yeah, the 1 series is a "weekend" car. The M3 owners at my company will be amused to hear that their daily drivers are "weekend cars." The 20k or so people per year who bought the 3 series coupes, they bought weekend cars.

1487, to use your logic, the Lotus Elise is much less appealing than a Mustang GT because the Mustang gives you more road-hugging weight. (Anyone else but me remember that Ford slogan from the '70s?)

I love it when people bleat how overpriced the BMW 3 series is, and yet BMW seems to sell lots and lots of them year in, year out.
The market determines the price. If they were overpriced, they wouldn't be selling the way they do.
Just because you may not be able to afford one does not mean it's overpriced.
I don't think price will be the problem with the 1 series. Maybe looks, even though I like the bulldog stance. But not everyone likes bulldogs!

blueguydotcom
 
your mis-repersenting the data
 
from the article
"IINCLUDING FINANCE CHARGES, the total cost of buying an average-priced light vehicle was $28,715 in the fourth quarter"
 
And the average loan was 63 months.
 
lets say the average loan rate was a low 5%.
 
That means the real Average car cost in america was ~$25,000. Not even close to 30k, and about 10k below the starting cost of a 135

For what it's worth, I'm 6ft tall and my 5'4" wife sat behind me during part of our test drive of the 135i and she was comfortable. Maybe not comfortable enough for an all day trip, but plenty of room for a normal commute or run to the store. I drove the 335 and 135 back-to-back and the 135 felt significantly lighter on it's feet. The 135 had a lot better exhaust note, too, IMHO. If you consider the 135 to be a sportier, marginally smaller, cheaper 3 series instead of an entry-level BMW the price makes more sense. Is it the steal of the century? Probably not... Is it a ton of fun for the money? I sure thought so...

"So you want it to start a lousy 2k lower? Really, 2k means that much? Wow."
 
Yes, it does. Because that means a 135i build to my liking will have a MSRP of below $40k, which to me is much easier to swallow for such a tiny car...
 
"Hell, in an IS250/350, a 6 footer would basically have his front seat touching the backseat."
 
Not trying to be offensive here but with the seat set to my driving position, a 5-7 man can easily fit in the backseat behind me in my IS350.
 
However, given that most of my friends are 6 footers so you do have a point here...
 
2 extra doors make a huge difference too.

Louis,
 
Really? Wow. I really had never seen such a small backseat in a sedan as I did in an IS250. I thought people were exaggerating until I saw the front seats just about touch the rear.

"I really had never seen such a small backseat in a sedan as I did in an IS250."
 
Just to give you a few...
 
1990s Civics
My 1997 Honda Accord
 
Let's not forget, the ISX50 is an EPA classified compact car so a small backseat is expected.

I saw a black 135i tonight, and I take back what I said about not liking its looks. In black anyways, this car looks fantastic. Someone described it as a bulldog, and I completely agree.

Not trying to be offensive here but with the seat set to my driving position, a 5-7 man can easily fit in the backseat behind me in my IS350.
 
I can't sit comfortably behind myself in the IS. In fact, in the entry lux car forum on edmunds back in 2005/06 I posted pics of my legs jammed up and splayed to fit in the IS. In my e46 I could sit comfortably and posted pics of that too.
 
I wasn't delighted sitting in the back of the 1, but I fit more comfortably than in the IS. The IS is hell on earth for me.

Louis,
 
Was the 1997 Accord in the generation directly before the 2003 Accord? If so, I was actually impressed with the roominess of that back-seat for such a small car. A good friend owns a 2001/2002 special edition model. Very comfy back seat in that one at least.
 
Can't speak for the ~1990 civic, but I believe that was rated as a sub-compact back when those ratings actually meant something :)
 
Doug - The black 1 series plays off the curves well...this car, among a variety of cars, truly takes on different shapes based upon color. You should see the "cashmere silver" one in person. Again, different look.

"Was the 1997 Accord in the generation directly before the 2003 Accord?"
 
Nope, the 1997 is gen 4 and 2003 is gen 6. I agree the gen 5 Accord that your friend owns has a pretty decent backseat.
 
"I can't sit comfortably behind myself in the IS. "
 
There are only 2 explanations for it:
 
1. You have a very awkward driving position, or
 
2. You have a very awkward sitting position
 
I have hauled people who are larger than you in both dimensions before (non 6-footer) and none of them has ever jammed his knees to the back of my seat.

"Value is always better with non-luxos than luxos....you are paying for all those little things (thicker glass, more sound deadening, and all the little touches as well as the "experience"). "
 
Much of that is in your head. Non luxury cars today are as quiet and safe as luxury cars. With a luxury car you get better dealer service and more features. Thats about it really.
 
"I'm still reeling over the fact that the 128/135 offer more power, more standard features and more interior space than the e46 3 series coupes, yet somehow, magically, since 2007, the price is now too high for an e46 coupe and it's too small. "
 
Let me help you out here: I never said any version of the 3 series coupe from any generation was a good value. Your position is that the 1 series is a bargain because it offers more features than a stripped down, overpriced e46 coupe but that is your opinion and since you think BMWs are bargains I am not surprised at your stance. I never intimated that the last gen 3 series coupe was a good buy. The last 3 offered less standard equipment than the current model. At least you do get some luxury on the 335i standard which is not the case for the last gen model. BTW, its comical that you feel that 20k sales a year proves that a car is a raging bargain. Lexus sells more than 20k LS460s in a year because there are enough people out there that can afford that car. It doesnt mean the car is offering the most bang for your buck simply because it reaches 20k or 30k sales. That's not much in today's auto market. There are enough BMW enthusiasts out there to keep demand high even if BMW raised the price by 20%. No amount is too much according to BMW lovers who defend paltry standard equipment lists and deride other luxury brands for giving you more for your money.
 
"That means the real Average car cost in america was ~$25,000. Not even close to 30k, and about 10k below the starting cost of a 135"
 
Thank you.
 
BTW, to all those claiming that sales figures prove that a car is a value I sumbit that your opinion would change if we started talking about vehicles you dont like. If I was to say that the sales success of the Escalade "proves" its a great value at $66k the heel and toeing BMW fan club would be laughing at me. After all, an Escalade would be overpriced at $40k since its heavy, doesnt handle well, guzzles gas, is driven by rappers, etc. A lot of people will pay a lot of money for certain vehicles based on image and status but it hardly means those cars represent an automotive value. Its also ironic that people think $30k is too much for a fully loaded Accord or Camry but $36k is a steal for a 135 with manual seats.

"BTW, its comical that you feel that 20k sales a year proves that a car is a raging bargain."
 
I'm no fan of BMW by any means, but we should at least get the facts straight. In 2006, the 3 series sold 120K.
 
http://www.forbes.com/2007/01/26/best-worst-selling-forbeslife-cx_dl_0129bestworstsellingcars.html
 
Not sure about the rest of the country, but here in Dallas the 3 series is the car of choice for the '30K millionaires.' It's all about status. They may have a crappy apartment and tons of credit card debt, but by god they own (or more likely lease) a BMW so they've 'made it.'

So far we're at the g37 as the only other car that seems to offer 4 seats, RWD, 300 hp and a coupe form for nearly the same price as the 135. Mustang too if we really want to scrape the barrel.
 
Wow, it's so overpriced with 1 identified competitor that starts at 37k with a manual.
 
http://build.infiniti.com/configurator_infiniti/app?service=external/EnterZipCode&mo=2008:gcp&tr=_TE_SPTM&bs=gcp&backTo=/configurator_infiniti/app%3Fservice%3Dexternal/SelectColor%26mo%3D2008%3Agcp%26bs%3Dgcp%26tr%3D_TE_SPTM
 
For even more fun, find a 4 seat, RWD convertible with 230 or 300 HP. mustang pops up again and then...

"I dont care if its as big as the old 3 series coupe or not- all that means it both cars are too small to cost this kind of money."
 
Size and substance are 2 very different things 1487. Its only when you put the 2 together that something really nice comes to surface....135i!
 
"Much of that is in your head. Non luxury cars today are as quiet and safe as luxury cars. With a luxury car you get better dealer service and more features. Thats about it really."
 
It goes quite a bit deeper than that my friend. Go try to dissassemble a Mercedes, BMW or anything in that range. Much harder than say a Civic or Cobalt. German cars in particular have a certain level of craftsmanship that few can match although Lexus is damn close.
 
Hell, my former 1996 Lexus ES300 was a bitch to take apart as I replaced the OEM head unit. Sure some say the ES was/is a glorified Camry (to some extent is it) but the build quality and the way the thing was screwed togther wasnt/isnt in any way Camry like.

1487 said, "Much of that is in your head. Non luxury cars today are as quiet and safe as luxury cars. With a luxury car you get better dealer service and more features. Thats about it really."
 
Frankly, I disagree. I think the difference between, say, a CTS and a Malibu are quite substantial in interior materials used, design, quietness, ride quality, ride/handling balance, drivetrain layout, use of high strength steel, and other features as well as the dealership experience is what seperates luxo from non-luxo.
 
What I said was that value is always on the side of non-luxos, as luxury cars are usually bought for things hard to quantify from the "this gets me from point a to point b and costs me $X per month to do so" vantage.
 
Joe

"It goes quite a bit deeper than that my friend. Go try to dissassemble a Mercedes, BMW or anything in that range. Much harder than say a Civic or Cobalt. German cars in particular have a certain level of craftsmanship that few can match although Lexus is damn close."
 
I think fine craftsmanship doesn't have to cost a lot but the luxury brands definitely give you way more content. Take my 335i's left headlight for example. It costs $1200 to replace. It's bi-xenon, 4-way adaptive, has DRL angel eyes (with 2 selectable intensities), and separate adaptive cornering lights. DSC is linked to the lights to keep them still on the highway during stiff crosswinds. If the car over- or understeers, the lighting control will keep the lights pointed in the driver's intended direction. The marker lights are LEDs. If any bulbs fail, the car will give you a message of exactly which bulb failed, and substitute a nearby one if critical. When you walk up to the car, the parking lights fade on, and fade off when you leave. "Pathway lighting" (headlamp delay) is driver-selectable, as is the delay time. European parking lights are also available on each side. Automatic lighting is standard, adjustable for sensitivity, and links to the rain sensor. The turn signals are fully electronic, and are selectable for 1 or 3 blinks.
 
The money spent on a luxury car buys you that kind of complexity and sophistication that is not found on a general spec sheet. Some buyers will care about that stuff and some won't. If you don't, then you won't find the value in it and you shouldn't buy a luxury car. But at the same time, people shouldn't knock those that do appreciate and want that kind of stuff, and are willing to pay for it.

"Frankly, I disagree. I think the difference between, say, a CTS and a Malibu are quite substantial in interior materials used, design, quietness, ride quality, ride/handling balance, drivetrain layout, use of high strength steel, and other features as well as the dealership experience is what seperates luxo from non-luxo."
 
Absolutely. Internal standards on gap tolerances, noise quality and levels, touch points, paint, etc can be different between luxury and non-luxury brands in the same company!

I was kinda hoping that this thread would top 100 comments...
I'll try to revive it. Carved from billet feel, amazing suspension, killer brakes, wikkid motor. Nothing in the under $40K price range comes close to this little beastie. Nothing.

19 more comments people, 19 more! :)
 
Yeah, alot of people think that luxury brands don't buy you anything extra. Kinda the mindset behind "it's just a toyota" "it's just a nissan" "it's just a honda" "it's just a chevy" etc. comments that are meant to say that the luxury version of those car companies are just ripping you off. Sometimes they are....but it's not as if there aren't alot of extra thrown into that price.
 
Joe
 
P.s. On paint thickness - great point. I won't comment on all modern paints, as alot of luxo paint jobs have gotten bad, but my fathers 99 boxster has simply the best paint job I've ever had the experience of maintaining. 9 years old, has seen winters covered in salt, has never been professionally detailed (amateur detailing by me, yes), and looks absolutely amazing. Sooo deep. I'd say that's worth an extra $500 right there, as the car is more worth keeping as the years go on.
 
Joe

I used to think that 100 comments was neat until I saw several of Karl's crush that mark.
  
The 1 is a great car and it gets me excited so I can see why people are willing to pay $36k for it but for me it will remain a dream and i'll just hang on to my $9k ZX6R. Performance/dollar!!!

"P.s. On paint thickness - great point. I won't comment on all modern paints, as alot of luxo paint jobs have gotten bad, but my fathers 99 boxster has simply the best paint job I've ever had the experience of maintaining. 9 years old, has seen winters covered in salt, has never been professionally detailed (amateur detailing by me, yes), and looks absolutely amazing. Sooo deep. I'd say that's worth an extra $500 right there, as the car is more worth keeping as the years go on."
 
Ive noticed German cars in particular have steller paint jobs. My uncles blk/blk 1999 Mercedes C43 AMG is virtually flawless. No chips, no swirling and it has lots of depth. Honda has some of the worst paint int he industry it seems as it chips very easily. Maybe its too thin?

"Honda has some of the worst paint int he industry it seems as it chips very easily"
 
Yes it is too thin. I think Dodge has the worst though. It's not uncommon to see a 4 year old Neon with large splatters of primer visible all over the hood, trunk, and/or roof.