Although our Lexus RX 400h long-termer has mostly been retired from the fleet and is now driven by non-editorial Edmunds folks, it occasionally falls back into our hands to make sure everything's running smoothly with the goal to test the long-long-term reliability of hybrids. After driving the RX to and from Willow Springs International Raceway, I'm happy to report everything is A-OK.
I can't really say the same about highway fuel economy, however. With cruise control set at 75 mpg there and back, I only managed 25.4 mpg (according to the trip computer)...
That's actually 0.4 mpg better than the EPA's 2008-standard highway estimate, but somehow I think it should be better even if the electric motor never kicks in at highway speeds. Certainly, the 27 mpg city is very impressive given most V6-powered crossovers get between 16 and 18 mpg in the city, however, I'm pretty sure we've never come remotely close to that. In fact, when I got into the car, it reported to me that it was averaging 18.3 mpg over its last 550 miles -- and that's not with the editor's lead feet on its accelerator.
James Riswick, Automotive Editor @ 31,831 miles
m_thrizzle says:
10:29 AM, 05/15/08
I'm sorry but people buying Hybrid SUV's are hypocrites. A wagon would meet most of the needs that SUV-shoppers are looking for in a lighter and thus more fuel efficient package. But Americans have an aversion to wagons and crave that high seating position to see beyond the other SUVs driving in front of them. I bet most hybrid SUV drivers owned SUV's before, and if they really cared about the environment, they would have bought a more fuel efficient vehicle as their previous vehicle. Of course, they'd have to give up their high seating position and off-road capability (not that they really need it).
cap811 says:
10:38 AM, 05/15/08
Love the Freudian Slip - "...cruise control set at 75 mpg...". Gas prices are getting to all of us ain't they!
texases says:
10:38 AM, 05/15/08
I wouldn't call them hypocrits, just careless with their money. 18 mpg city/25 mpg highway is whay I hear lots of '08 Highlander folks get, for way less $$, and I assume an RX350 would do the same.
133712 says:
10:39 AM, 05/15/08
to M Thrizzle...
I have an RX330 which uses the same engine as the RX400H, which is the 3.3 liter 230 horses.
Id just like to say that in the city, i get <15 according to the computer, and im not even really a lead foot driver. On the highway, i get around 23 give or take. So still the hybrid SUV gives you more performance and saves fuel (no matter how small) as well. its really a win win situation. and agreed, 75 mph isnt exactly MPG friendly and dont hate just because they can spend more money and buy a lexus versus a toyota highlander...there is a big difference there
texases says:
11:05 AM, 05/15/08
Most of the RX350 reports give about 18 city/24-25 highway, same as that reported above for the hybrid. No money saving there.
altimadude00 says:
11:32 AM, 05/15/08
m thrizzle -- Care to list the wagon models available to the average American family for under $30k? I can think of maybe four; Subaru Impreza wagon, Subaru Outback, Kia Rondo 5-seater, and Volvo V50.
Boy, that's a big choice for new buyers for wagons. Can't buy what the manufacturers don't offer us.
bloodyr says:
11:37 AM, 05/15/08
In general, I think the benefits of hybrid technology are overstated. Everybody looks at the Prius as a shining example of the benefits of hybrids, but it's fuel efficient mainly because it has a 1.5L engine, not because it's a hybrid. It's also relatively light. Take away the batteries, and the car would weigh about 2500 pounds and would probably get mid to high 30s with just the 1.5L engine.
With the 400h and the old Accord hybrid, you can see the ridiculously minimal benefits of hybrid technology on a larger engine...
louiswei says:
11:44 AM, 05/15/08
The "concept" of the hybrid technology is not overstated but due to the current battery technology limitations this "concept" hasn't even achieved half of its potential yet.
The bottom line is that with the every improving battery technologies, the hybrid will have much greater potential than the diesel. Well, of course the best of them all is the hybrid diesel...
langjie says:
11:53 AM, 05/15/08
show me a hybrid wagon. if they made it, more people might buy it
louiswei says:
12:08 PM, 05/15/08
"show me a hybrid wagon. if they made it, more people might buy it"
Does the new Toyota Venza count as a wagon? I am pretty sure it is getting the hybrid engine.
m_thrizzle says:
12:10 PM, 05/15/08
altimadude00, you are missing the point. Because wagons don't sell well in the US, most manufacturers stopped making them or selling them here years ago. There are plenty of good wagons in Europe that are not imported here because they wouldn't sell well because Americans love their gas guzzling SUVs too much. The only way to sell wagons in the US is to disguise them as crossover SUVs, which are essentially tall wagons but somehow cooler to own.
Besides, why are you asking for wagons <$30k? This RX350h is $45-50k. You can buy lovely wagons from Audi, Volvo, BMW, and M-Benz in that price range. I have been thinking of replacing my 96 accord with a Mazda Protege5 wagon as my daily driver. I think they look good and handle fairly well.
SubyTrojan says:
12:16 PM, 05/15/08
Lap times for the RX 400h, Enclave, and CX-9 please? j/k
txmatt1 says:
12:33 PM, 05/15/08
This is NOT a Prius and was never designed with the goal of maximizing gas mileage. It was designed to provide better performance than its non-hybrid sibling with similar or slightly better mileage. As such, Car and Driver got a 6.6 sec 0-60 from their long term sample. For comparable performance you have to look at the Porsche Cayenne, Jeep Hemi Cherokee, and BMW X5 V8, none of which are going to get 18/25mpg. About the only wagons that play in this performance territory would be the Dodge Magnum Hemi, some Volvo turbos, and the Subaru Forester XT. Of those, only the Subie is likely to get close to the RX400h mileage. This hybrid is more akin to a larger engine option than it is about ultimate gas mileage and payback periods. My only big criticism of the 400h would be that this sample doesn't appear to come close to its rated city mileage.
That said, certainly wagons will do what most SUV's will do for generally less money, less weight, better mileage, and better handling. Ironically, another Toyota product, the non-hybrid RAV4 V6 offers better performance, better mileage, and for less money, although in a slightly smaller package and without the luxury trimming of the Lexus.
tmanz says:
12:48 PM, 05/15/08
From FuelEconomy.gov
The RX400h gets 27/24 with an average of 25mpg and 7.3 tons of CO2 annually
the RX350 gets 18/23 with an average of 20mpg and 9.2 tons of CO2 annually
the BMW 328i wagon gets 18/27 with an average 21 and 8.7 tons of CO2 annually
the Audi A4 Avant gets 17/25 with an average of 20 and 9.2 tons of CO2 annually
and just for fun a 2002 Protege5 wagon gets 22/28 with an average of 24 and 7.7 tons of CO2 annually
aspade says:
01:03 PM, 05/15/08
Hybrid powertrains as currently offered only function in stop and go traffic, at constant speed on the highway they're just dead weight.
Thinking it should do better simply because there's a hybrid badge on the back is idolatry.
jriz says:
01:30 PM, 05/15/08
But I love idolatry. You should see the gold-plated sheep on my desk.
altimadude00 says:
05:31 PM, 05/15/08
m thrizle -- I say under $30k because that is what most Americans outside California can afford to buy new. Audi, MB, etc are considered premium brands and they command a price at least $35k. There are many SUVs available for families to buy below that price point.
There are older wagons on the used market, such as the Mazda Protoge5 you mentioned. There's also the Kia Rio5 I forgot to mention earlier.
People are still motivated by style and (perceived) safety of SUVs over car-based wagons.
I'm sure that when the generation that remembered the barges of the past exit the market, wagons will return. The current generation will see SUVs as wasteful and will "come to their senses" that wagons accomplish everything their SUVs do with a smaller visual, environmental, and physical impact.
stephen987 says:
05:08 AM, 05/16/08
These mileage figures aren't too far off the Enclave. Hmmm. Maybe there's something to be said for good old American ingenuity. <duck>
gspfan says:
04:42 PM, 05/16/08
Hybrids are vanity vehicles, plain and simple. The premium price negates any real monetary savings. And the fuel savings are relatively meager. They're really just "Look at me!" cars. Wonder why the Prius outsells the similarly frugal Civic? It's because the Civic looks almost identical to the regular non-hybrid model, while the Prius doesn't look like any other Toyota model. Don't get me started about zinc mining and all the energy needed to manufacture the battery.