Spy versus Spy, or M3 vs. M3

At the racetrack my money's on the E46 M3.

Purists be darned, I'll take the new one. (Not in white though.) The new V8 actually weighs less than the old I6 and revs nearly as high as an RX-8, so I don't buy into the argument that it lacks the right character for this car. Everyone wets themselves over the M5's V10, who wouldn't want the 80% version of that beast?
 
I've yet to see any publication complain that it was too soft, and I think it looks better. I'm not crazy about the sedan version of the new 3-series, but the coupe makes the older 3-series coupe look downright boring.
 
And if smaller, lighter, and less brutal are what you want, the Z4M coupe exhibits those traits better than any M3, and is drop dead gorgeous, IMHO. Choosing between the two M3's, I'll take the new one.

I'd take the new one, but not in white. I like gadgetry, and the driving experience is equal to (if not better than) the E46. It's more of a complete package. Still, the E46 has that timeless look....decisions, decisions....

I love the e46...I think it's classic and has the better interior. I think it gains points for using an inline six, a signature of BMW.
 
But I'd vote for the e92, without ever having driven one though.
 
I think the ~60 lb/fts more torque and ~90 more HP, along with the adjustable suspension and better chassis will win the day. I think it will better strive towards that horizon between sports car and everyday car.
 
Purists be damned; they think that a car must be uncomfortable and hard to drive at 5mph or 100mph, or else it's crap.
 
It's all about feel. If the e92 M3 has soul, then it'll win.
 
Joe

I'd go for the E46. While the E92 definitely looks really nice and the V8 is tempting, the E46 has just always appealed to me.
 
The E46 just seems more "pure" to me for some reason.
 
Although the more I think about it, the more I have trouble actually deciding. I'd be interested in seeing the results of a direct comparison.

don't care which car people say they prefer, but the faster car by a lot will be the new one.

Does E92 have run-flat tires like other new 3-series? If it does, I'll go for E46.

"Does E92 have run-flat tires like other new 3-series? If it does, I'll go for E46."
 
E92 M3's do not come with RFTs like the 328 and 335's do.
 
ahightower hit the nail on the head for me. I love the styling of the new E92 (I'm biased, I have one. ;-)). Although the E46 M3 is a truly brilliant car, it's time to up the ante. Power, handling, technology. The E46 can't keep up with the C63's and RS4's of the world.

I definitely like the E46's looks better. That snub nose on the E92 looks awkward.

People have complained every generation that the new M3 is heavier and less involving than the old one. Yet each time the new car is quite a bit faster on the track.
 
I have an e46 M# and was just at Mid-Ohio this past weekend. I was beating track-prepped e36 M3s with only minor modifications (track tires and brakes essentially). However, a new M3 was out there and was running very close times to me bone stock.
 
I don't think it looks as good as mine, but it's definitely the better car.

mcstahl hit the nail on the head. There are always the complainers out there who have issues with new versions.
But the new versions are always quicker and faster. The new M3 has already been tested by edmunds, and has been shown to be much much faster, pulls higher g's, much higher slalom #s, stops much quicker. It is going to smoke the E46. As for soul, how can a v8 that is lighter than the I6 that it replaces, that revs to over 8K and makes over 400hp not have any soul.
I had an M3coupe with the I6 315hp motor. The motor in my 330 feels very similar albeit slower. So the novelty is a little tired. Nothing else in the range has that V8..
BMW had to make the new M3, especially seeing how the 335i eclipses the old M3's performance.

e46 m3
looks better and no idrive or crazy electronic gizmos

Desmo, your statement is certainly true but I think what enthusiasts are worried about is that certain "edge" or lack of, that past M cars pocessed that gave the cars character.
 
Ive driven the E30, E36 and E46 M3s and all are REALLY great cars. But there is something about that E30 that just feels so raw...I love that car!
 
I guess its that relentless refining process that each generation seems to have to go through to appeal to a larger demographic. Its not a bad thing as it makes the performance more usable/accessable and makes the cars more user friendly but at the same time these things seem to take that "edge" away.
 
I call it "refined raciousness". I came up with the phrase after I drove the 2002 RSX-S. Sure it was a better car than the Integra GS-R it replaced but there was something about the GS-R that just gave me that "feeling".
 
Unfortuantely for the ethusiast it seems all high performance vehicles are going thru this process.

I like the look of the E46 better, but I like the engine of the E92 much better. I'll take a V-8 over a 6-cylinder any day, just on sound alone. Plus, I don't trust the durability of the engine in the E46 - there were just too many cases of grenading engines to earn my trust in it.

I had a chance to test drive an E92 M3 a few weeks ago. I was not allowed to rev it past 5k as it was a demo car that was still under the break-in period, but it was still torquier than my E46. The thing I liked the most was the EDC suspension, in sport mode, the ride was like my E46 (maybe be a little softer!), but it was significantly flatter in cornering. I'd like to see how this car performs at the local road course. The seats are tighter and grippier than the wide seats in the E46. Backseat is roomier as well, but it's a 2+2. The engine note is too quiet for my tastes and only opens up at WOT.
 
Exterior-wise, it looks like a E92 3-series w/ a Japanese bodykit -- the lines don't flow smoothly. Likewise, the interior seemed to have lost some (not all!) German spartan simplicity for a Japanese cheapness and flare. In particular, the headliner is sooo nuevo Nissan.
 
Overall, I think the E92/90 is a great evolution performance-wise from the E46. I don't see myself bending over backwards to get one, but I can see myself eventually getting one.

That's funny because I actually wish that the E92/90 has the so called "Japanese cheapness and flare" interior design...

This is tough.
The new WRX STI is faster than the old one, but I'd much rather have an old one. I think the same applies here.
 
Sure the new one is faster, more refined, and doesn't blow up. But the old one doesn't have iDrive, electronannies, or a skyhigh pricetag.

I wonder how long it'll be before e46 prices come down. I'm in a position to ditch my e36 M3, but with those values at rock-bottom and e46's still too high, I'm in a real pickle. Anyone have any suggestions for a ride to replace the e36?

If (relatively) inexpensive performance is your thing, you probably can't go wrong with a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution or Subaru Impreza WRX STi (2004-2005)/STI (2006-2007).

The thought had crossed my mind. If only there was an easy way to disable the front diff on those rather beastly sets of wheels...I had thought about an e90 330i, but I think if I wanted a Buick I'd just buy any of the 87 Grand Nationals for sale in Orlando, and the G35s of the previous generation are a little too slow and the new ones a little too ugly. How dare BMW inconvenience me by making the 135i so expensive!

It's been my observation that the naysayers are also the ones that aren't in the market anyway, no matter what they claim...

rkoe, Im not sure where youre located but E46 M3's are pretty reasonable here in Ky. I would suggest you really really really look around and you should find a good deal.
 
When I was looking for my wife an anniversary present back in 2005 I just happend to run across a MINT blk/blk 2002 Honda S2000 owned by an eldery couple in Indiana listed on AutoTrader. The S only had about 3600, yes 3600 miles and he was asking only $21.5. I offered him $21K and drove it home.
 
The best part of the whole situation was seeing my wifes reaction when she opened the garage door. Nothing like a beautiful woman jumping up and down in high heels! Maybe thats the reason we have 5 kids.

Now that is a story to tell the grandkids, Hondacura. Your wife must be some woman! I can't imagine it's easy to jump up and down in high heels and not twist an ankle.
 
I'm in the greater Orlando, Florida area right now and, truth be told, there really aren't that many nice examples of e46 M3s around. They've all been ragged, from what I can see, and the nice ones are all convertibles, and I just can't be riding in a drop-top. Also, I never drove an M3 of that generation before, be it manual or DSG, so I'm not sure which I should try to find. The traffic round about it pretty awful, but my e36 has cost me so much money already that I'm in fear of how much the DSG might be to fix should the computer ever decide to take a nosedive. I'm liking the idea that Subytrojan suggested: an 04-05 STI. There are a lot of them driving around down here, but back home (I'm from a little town in the Florida panhandle) no one even knows what an STI is, so just as soon as I get out of school it might be worth while to pick one up. I'll be on the lookout anyway. Does anyone have any recomendations/observations about G35 sedans? They seem to be going for pretty cheap...
 
Anyway, I suppose I should make a comment about the actual topic of this blog: Me personally, despite the big-as-a-Buick remark I made previously, I'd have to go witht he e92 M3, just because I can get it as a sedan. I love me some four-doors, and that's the rawest one I think I've ever seen. Except, of course, the Holden HSV Clubsport....now that's a beastly car.

The 2005 STi has a good number of things the 2004 didn't.
 
-17" x 8" BBS wheels 5 x 114.3 (2004 - 17" x 7.5" BBS wheels 5 x 100)
-revised interior
-rear fender "flares"
-helical front differential (replaces the SureTrac one the 2004 model used)
 
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/impreza/wrxsti2005.html

Suby, was the wing an option on the former STi or was it standard? There is an older gentleman about 2 blocks from me who drives a silver STi with no wing and it just looks SO much better without it. It just chages the stance completely, for the better.
 
"Now that is a story to tell the grandkids, Hondacura. Your wife must be some woman! I can't imagine it's easy to jump up and down in high heels and not twist an ankle."
 
She is a combination of Alicia Keys and Lucy Lu. She refers to herself as "BlAsian", Black and Asian. =)

hondacura4, that gentleman probably has a 2007 Subaru Impreza WRX STI Limited.
 
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/impreza/wrxsti2007photos.html
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/impreza/wrxsti2007.html
 
Btw, this thread is worthless without pics, hondacura4! j/k

Yesterday I stopped by a used car lot here in Orlando and had a look around. Nice prices on everything, but two cars in particular stood out. One, a 2005 GTO in silver. Not my favorite color, but certainly one of my favorite late-model cars. Love it. The other, a 2005 330ci w/ZHP in a dark blue metallic. Both are priced to get out of there in a hurry. Coming from the e36, the 330ci is closer both in dimensions and power (235 vs 240) to my M3, but good lord is that GTO something else. It's been a while since I drove one, and let me tell you if you haven't ever, it's a monster. It might feel nice to have some real v8 torque underfoot again. Any takers?

2005 GTO? Oh you meant that oversized Honda Civic coupe...
Nah, I'll take a G8 GT over that in any given day.

louiswei: Serious/sarcasm? Its hard to tell.

"Coming from the e36, the 330ci is closer both in dimensions and power (235 vs 240) to my M3, but good lord is that GTO something else. It's been a while since I drove one, and let me tell you if you haven't ever, it's a monster. It might feel nice to have some real v8 torque underfoot again. Any takers?"
 
The power/torque from the GTO's big V8 is great but the car is no comparison to the ZHP 330i in terms of overall performance. Ive driven several 330i ZHPs and its quite a car thats can run in the low 14's, hardly slow.
 
Id have to side with the 330i ZHP sedan as its extremely rare, looks great, performs great and you could resell it later at a great price as the car is still a high demand vehicle. Ive seen more than a few people asking right at $30K for a nice 330i ZHP.

The '05 GTO is a great car, but it doesn't do what it's supposed to do. Granted, I'm used to driving an F1-inspired go kart, but the GTO sure felt porky. I'd liken it to a rhino: it can really move, but you can feel all the momentum required to move it.

The GTO isn't a fantastic canyon carver but the one I drove seemed adequete in that regard. Its a sleeper in the right colors. People always mistake it for something else or don't know what it is. This is a benefit in my mind. It is also one of the best hp/dollar ratios available with good 05/06 examples for high teens/low twenties.
  
Unless you really need to seat four (ingress/egress is terrible in the GTO), or can't stand the styling, the GTO will save you $10k+ over a G8 and then you can give that money to Lingenfelter.

Oh and about the BMWs, i'd have to drive them to be sure so give me a ring to setup an appointment... ;-)

I looked at the GTO and Charger Daytona. Both were too big and heavy for my tastes. Ditto for the E39 M5 Nice cars, though. Another problem with the GTO was that I thought it looked too much like a weirdly mutated Cavalier. I almost bought a ZHP, but never got excited enough to pull the trigger. I came very, VERY close to buying a 2004 M3-same color combination as the Long Term car, but it wasn't optioned the way I wanted. I wound up buying a Mazdaspeed3 to tide me over until something more entertaining came along. I like the new M3 sedan, but a Competition Package E46 M Drei would also be a nice addition, especially if I could find one sans sunroof. And I still have a soft spot for the original E30 M3-maybe with a 2.5 stroker transplant.
Decisions, decisions...

Roadburner that E30 was something esle.
 
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5nuRgzaJ-q8

That's a cool video. The thing I really like about the E30 M3 is the almost telepathic steering and handling. It's far from the fastest car on street but the original is still hugely entertaining to drive- particularly on the track...

"The traffic round about it pretty awful, but my e36 has cost me so much money already that I'm in fear of how much the DSG might be to fix should the computer ever decide to take a nosedive. "
 
Hmmmm, and somebody else in these forums was trying to tell me how old BMW M-cars aren't expensive to maintain and repair... I rest my case.

Ah yes, more wisdom from the BMW "Expert" who has yet to drive one...
Yawn.