2008 Cadillac CTS: The Reason

Thirty-twelve???

"Plus, am I imagining things or is there a bit of an exhaust note too?"
 
I'm not ashamed to admit that I am old enough to remember the days when most cars had an exhaust note; the days when you actually heard more than the wind and your tires whirring along the roadways.
 
I was explaining this to my 9 yr old son after a '71 Cuda roared passed us the other day… his comment, "whoa, that would be so awesome if all cars sounded like that."

Give that kid a high five and a new toy.

The "late" 30s Brian Moody fits right into CTS' buyer demographic:
 
16-34 years: 3.3%
35-54 years: 37.4%
55+ years: 59.2%
 
Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080117.wh-dealweekCTS-0117/BNStory/specialGlobeAuto
 
Exhaust note? No thanks I'll pass, I much prefer driving a wolf in a sheep's skin.

louis,
 
You keep posting that link but I dont even know if that data applies to the US since that is a Canadian publication. Even if it did that article was written in January and the car had only been on sale for 5 months at the time. That said, I dont see the point of your data without comparisons to the CTS' competition. All I can say is based on the drivers I see that data seems inaccurate.
 
If you dont like exhaust notes you better stay away from Infiniti models.

Many old people drive Cadillac, but calling Cadillac CTS a old people's car is just a dumb stereotype. Most of luxury medium or upper sized sedans are called old people's car just because young people can't afford it anyway.

Source: Power Information Network
 
In other words, the data is from JD Power.
 
JD Power used to disclose buyer demographic data to the public but for some reason they have stopped doing that. But here are the data that I gathered in the past:
 
From JD Power, % buyers 16-35 / 36-55 / 56+ years old:
 
2007 Lexus IS - 44/42/14
2007 BMW 3 - 35/46/20
2007 Acura TL - 36/44/20
2007 Infiniti G - 35/50/15
   
2007 Lexus GS - 22/50/28
2008 BMW 5 - 8/66/26
2007 Acura RL - 8/43/49
2007 Infiniti M - 13/53/34
 
As for exhaust note, that's why you won't see me driving an Infiniti anytime soon.

Are you going to celebrate your 39th birthday for the 4th time? 39 is the new 29.

"39 is the new 29"
 
LOL... yeah right... just keep telling yourself that.

I will when I get there. ;-)

"I dont even know if that data applies to the US since that is a Canadian publication."
 
I would imagine that US and Canadian car buying is pretty similar? Can anyone comment?

dougtheeng
 
Canadian buyers tend to buy more cheaper and smaller cars due to higher car prices and gas prices (about $5.00 gallon).
 
The top ten cars in Canada are all 4 cylinder (2 have V6 options).
 
"The top ten best-selling cars year-to-date, in order, were the Honda Civic, Chevrolet Cobalt, Mazda3, Toyota Corolla, Toyota Yaris, Pontiac G5, Toyota Camry, Hyundai Accent, Pontiac G6 and Ford Focus."
 
Full size SUV's have never been that common here but there are lots of pick ups.

Louis - Thanks for the great and detailed data. Kinda cool to review that...
 
It also reinforces the theory that Cadillac is still viewed as an "older" population brand, even by the older people who buy them :)
 
1487 - As usual, I get to poke fun at your commetns :)
 
"All I can say is based on the drivers I see that data seems inaccurate. "
 
Wow....you mean datamined research is not as accurate as your visual assessment? Flabbergasting.
 
FYI, I've seen about 10 people driving CTS's in my area. I'd say 3-6 were definitely 55+ , 4 were african american women in the 40-60 range (in other words, I wouldn't blanketly call them "older"), and 3 were Caucasian or Asian Men of 45-60 age.
 
In my opinion, my visual assessment is more accurate than Louis' market analysis data.
 
Joe
 
P.s Every car should have an exhaust note, and maybe a little intake growl. The new 335 (among other cars) uses the approach of having a flap in the exhaust open upon heavy throttle....quiet when you are light on the gas, louder when you are heavy.
 
My Subaru Legacy GT has very little exhaust or intake note, and just sounds like a quieted down boxer 4 (that is to say, refined at moderate and high RPMs but noisy down low). It needs to be livened up :)

"Wow....you mean datamined research is not as accurate as your visual assessment? Flabbergasting.
  
FYI, I've seen about 10 people driving CTS's in my area. I'd say 3-6 were definitely 55+ , 4 were african american women in the 40-60 range (in other words, I wouldn't blanketly call them "older"), and 3 were Caucasian or Asian Men of 45-60 age.
  
In my opinion, my visual assessment is more accurate than Louis' market analysis data. "
 
I don't doubt JD powers ability to collect data, I do doubt that the numbers in that article were current. Think about it, how accurate could the numbers be if the article was written in January and the car debuted in August. Secondly, the article didnt say if that data was for Canada or the US market. You are patting yourself on the back for "poking fun" at what I said but the reasons I am skeptical were clearly stated earlier. MY experience has been that 60% of CTS owners are not over 60, but that could just be in my local area.

"MY experience has been that 60% of CTS owners are not over 60, but that could just be in my local area."
 
Let's see, should I trust 1487's data from just his local area and gathered visually by just him or JD Power's national data gathered throughout the dealerships around the country although it was "only" from August '07 to January '08?
 
Wow, that's a really tough choice...

Louis, I assume the data is for north america, but can you confirm?
 
1487 - Current? There's a difference of 2 months. And one of those months (March) is probably not available yet. You mean the first 5 months of a new, hot selling car WOULDN'T attract a disproportionate amount of younger people? I'd think that'd be the key time for the younger, more impulse driven crowd to try out the hot new product.
 
I was patting myself on the back for poking fun of your local assessment. Your skepticism of the data was expected (you are skeptical of things that don't fit your view, as evidenced by your posts to date). Your original statement was "that's not what I've experienced". Not, "That's not what I experienced, but it could just be my local area."
 
Backpedaler :)
 
Unfortunately, if the CTS is being bought by all these 55+s (although does that mean 55-60, or 65-70? Big difference), then caddy's image is goign to stay older. Which isn't fair, as the CTS is a really nice car for the 30-50 crowd, in my opinion.
 
Joe

Joe, I am 80% sure that the CTS data is for North America (because I've seen numbers like those before on JD Power's website) and 100% sure that the rest are indeed for North America from JD Power (I got them from their website personally).

"Let's see, should I trust 1487's data from just his local area and gathered visually by just him or JD Power's national data gathered throughout the dealerships around the country although it was "only" from August '07 to January '08? "
 
You have no context for that data. It may be accurate but we have no idea how long of period of time was covered or what regions. Furthermore, I would suspect that data comes from people that respond to surveys because I dont think registrations reveal driver age. All we can say is based on the surveys they received in a certain time period that data is accurate. You admitted you don't have concurrent data for other brands so at this point we have to say its hard to see how the CTS compares. If you are going to provide data you need to be able to provide some background info that shows how it was gathered. Everything JD Power does is based on surveys and they probably surveyed a few hundred CTS owners to compile that age data.
 
BTW, when you consider the stats say the average price paid was about $47k I would think the information is for Canada only. No way that would be the average transaction price in the US.
 
Joe,
 
let me be cystal clear for you. The data doesnt reflect what I have seen or what you have seen but may be wholly accurate. In reality I don't care that much because I like the CTS. If 60% of the people who drive it are over 56 then I must commend those old people on their good taste. The real point of this is that when we run out of objective reasons to criticize a car like the CTS we have to resort to things like this. So the CTS is a great car but it's primarily bought by old people so it shouldn't be respected in the same manner as its import competitors.

"Everything JD Power does is based on surveys and they probably surveyed a few hundred CTS owners to compile that age data."
 
That's where you are wrong. JD Power didn't get the age data from owners, they got them from the dealers.
 
It's pointless to argue because either way I'll take JD Power's words over 1487's "that's not what I see around here"...

"It's pointless to argue because either way I'll take JD Power's words over 1487's "that's not what I see around here"..."
 
Data from Canada? If thats what you want to go with that's fine with me but I question it's relevance to US markets.
 
Have you observed owners of CTS' being as old as stated in that article? Since you only believe yourself let's see what your experience tells you.

"Data from Canada"
 
Even if the data is from Canada I would still take that over the "that's not what I see around here".
 
My experience? I have to say that I don't see that many new CTS around where I live to make it relevant. The few that I saw have old ladies as their drivers but I don't think that reflects the overall age demographic of the car.

When a twenty something goes into a Caddy dealer, you don't get the same experience as a retiree. I went to go drive the CTS with an appointment (didn't tell them my age and I had the ability to pay cash for the car), and I couldn't get anyone to help me for 15 minutes. Now I was 5 minutes early, but I was wearing Brooks Brothers and Tod's driving loafers (two big tells of I am your target audience, I probably am not some kid looking for a test drive in an Escalade). I was passed over by the guy with whom I had made an appointment for some rapper want to be, who he then had to politely deny a test drive after they checked his license. Now, when I went to look at the G35 and the 328 on the same day, I had my ass kissed. I like the CTS, but that sort of experience is very off-putting. The major deal breaker is the wretched manual transmission (GM sells autos to BMW, why can't they buy some 6 speeds), but GM needs to get their luxury brand buying and servicing experience in-line with their competition and their own Saturn division. They might sell more cars to those who haven't not known that the Lexus-type experience exists. In the end each of the cars had an inexcusable flaw (crappy manual, poor interior/ride quality, and no spare tire/i-drive/worse interior than the old one/can't find one with the options I want in a manual), and I will not compromise on certain things when laying out that much cash. A CTS with a better manual transmission, dealer network, and price point would have gotten my checkbook wide open. I guess that I'm going to have to wait for the Alfa Romeo 159.

"P.s Every car should have an exhaust note, and maybe a little intake growl. The new 335 (among other cars) uses the approach of having a flap in the exhaust open upon heavy throttle....quiet when you are light on the gas, louder when you are heavy."
 
Joe - I disabled the flap on my 335i. There's a wiring harness in a trunk compartment that you can get to. It provides for a wonderful (and louder) dual exhaust burble at ALL engine speeds. :-D
 
On another note, I am rather entertained by this debate. JD Powers data collected from a comprehensive sample size. Or 1487's looky-loo observations. Hilarious! I've only seen one new CTS on the road here in the Bay Area and it was a 40-50-something y/o guy, so I'll just go ahead and argue that most CTS drivers are of that demographic. Please spare me your "books", "facts", or "truthiness".

"My experience? I have to say that I don't see that many new CTS around where I live to make it relevant. The few that I saw have old ladies as their drivers but I don't think that reflects the overall age demographic of the car."
 
Knew you were going to say that. Where you live people are too smart and educated to buy Cadillacs right? So predictable.
 
"JD Powers data collected from a comprehensive sample size. Or 1487's looky-loo observations. Hilarious! I've only seen one new CTS on the road here in the Bay Area and it was a 40-50-something y/o guy, so I'll just go ahead and argue that most CTS drivers are of that demographic. Please spare me your "books", "facts", or "truthiness"."
 
You know the sample size? The Canadian market is small and JD Power usually only collects data from a small group anyway. Loius gave us a link with some data but no background on that data other than saying it came from Power Information Network. No idea if that was the 2008 or 2007. No idea if that was from Canada or the US. No idea if that was from one month or 6 months of purchases.
 
I have likely seen 25+ CTS' on the streets so far so I'm probably a little more qualified to guess how old the average buyer would be. Since you are from CA I will assume that your grasp of automotive reality in the rest of the country is lacking. YOu have only seen one CTS in 6 months and its currently outselling the C class, ES350, TL and G35 so that tells me how out of touch CA buyers are with the current state of domestic offerings.

"Where you live people are too smart and educated to buy Cadillacs right?"
 
Well, if that's what you are going to think then I am not going to argue...

louiswei, I wouldn't argue either. 1487 obviously possesses a much higher level of intelligence than the rest of us. I mean, he's seen 25+ CTS's on the road, how could you possibly be more qualified? Not 10, no not 15... 25! Or more! I stand corrected, 1487. I shall never question your infallible knowledge, sense of humor, ability to sense sarcasm, or your ability to correctly read and interpret the points of people's posts ever again.

"Well, if that's what you are going to think then I am not going to argue..."
 
Your condenscension is noted but the reality is anyone who purchases a CTS can afford your beloved IS350 or a 335 or a C350 or any other import that you deem superior. Since those cars are superior perhaps you can explain why the CTS is outselling them currently. Maybe the average entry level lux car buyer isnt as savvy as you thought? Perhaps they have been fooled into thinking a blinged up unsophisticated Caddy is a real luxury car.
 
"I shall never question your infallible knowledge, sense of humor, ability to sense sarcasm, or your ability to correctly read and interpret the points of people's posts ever again."
 
I just wanted to know how you could discount my skepticism of louiswei's precious stats when you have only seen one car. If all of us had observed CTS' on the road perhaps we could compare notes but you and your buddy Loius have seen a combined 2 CTS' and want to vouch for the data in the article unequivocally. My statement was simple: my observations do not line up with what was reported in the article. If you have no anecdotal evidence to draw from than feel free to accept those stats.

"Since those cars are superior perhaps you can explain why the CTS is outselling them currently."
 
Last I checked, the 3er still outsells CTS. If you want to just compare the 335i alone then you should just count the DI version of the CTS but I guess that data will be hard to find. The CTS is selling well because:
 
1) It is a nice car no doubt
2) It's still new
3) Huge incentives
4) The last gen CTS was never a bad seller from the beginning
 
As you can see, no one is doubting that whether or not the CTS is a good car. The argument here is that it is not attracting younger buyers like the Caddy was intended to. But who cares as long as it is selling well, right?